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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 23 post(s) |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
598
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:49:00 -
[241] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Lachesis 3 - lows 7 - mids Has been extensively used as a shield ship for the majority of its existence in Eve, and even when damps were buffed again, still is completely viable and used in the role it had established.
None of the certificates include skills for invulnerability fields, hardeners, shield rigs, nothing. Not even for LVL 5 mastery.
And as an "exclusively armor tanked ship" with only 3 lowslots, the use of the rigslots to compensate for this would be pretty basic. Yet where are the armor rigging skills in the armor tanking certificate?
i'm imagining as roden shipyards being armour and rail based that they will be switching some mids for low slots when they get too recons. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
LtCol Laurentius
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
146
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Posted - 2013.11.21 17:00:00 -
[242] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:the new core weapon fitting that has AWU and WU for some reason also has gunnery lv2 which makes no sense especially for a missile ship to need.
Thats because gunnery 2 is (and always has been) a prereq for training Weapon Upgrades. |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
853
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Posted - 2013.11.21 17:13:00 -
[243] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:So....
How many people have the datacore cert?
I suspect it's next to none, if the screen shot I saw was accurate. An alt I sold years ago would have had that one. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
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Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
613
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Posted - 2013.11.21 17:45:00 -
[244] - Quote
My thoughts on the first page remain the same. I still think it would be better to have sub certificates that when we get a level in all sub certs, we just see the name of the overall cert we get to reduce clutter (for instance have small Rail turrets and Small Blaster turret certs, if both are at the same level we just see Small Hybrid Turret If all turrets small to large are the same level we just see a level for Sub Cap Hybrid turrets.
Resource harvesting and manufacturing still need work. Again, t2 strip miners and crystals require the refining skills, so a master miner needs more than just the skills in the resource harvesting cert to be the best they can. This also means a person with hulk mastery might not actually have mastered the hulk; either give us a advanced resource harvesting cert, or give barges the refining cert.
Another thing I notice that I don't agree with is that mastery levels are the same as the cert levels themselves. THis causes two problems, the first problem is some aspects are more important to a ship than others, and the other is at higher cert levels, you might not even need or be able to utilize what you have gotten with the certs. For the latter example, turn to Logistics vessels, they all require the advanced target management cert, that means at mastery 4 you need the skill advanced target management at 4 and at mastery 5 you need that skill at 5, that allow you to target eleven and twelve targets respectively; this badly represents mastering the ship as logis can only have 10 targets. Level 5 mastery, if it weren't the same as the level of all certs required, would mean level 5 mastery on a logi could only require adv target mgmt 3, which is actually realistic.
At the same time, as it's reason for existence, I would say the level of the mobile rep certs should actually be a tier higher than the mastery at least.
Also, again, the manufacturing and research skills should be better split up between T1,2 and 3.
I was thinking some time ago about the lost starter professions. They were interesting to see, though perhaps not entirely relevant but they did give me an idea: Non ship masteries. Add in masteries not linked to specific ships to represent various professions in eve like trader, miner and combat pilot for x type of ship to gather certs together a bit for reference purposes. |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
613
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Posted - 2013.11.21 17:49:00 -
[245] - Quote
Ignore this post |
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
59
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Posted - 2013.11.21 19:37:00 -
[246] - Quote
I was wondering, isn't the Minmatar carrier suppose to be an armor ship? Since it has more low slots, I would have thought that it would have required the armor tanking certificate, just like the hurricane and the typhoon. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17466
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Posted - 2013.11.21 23:01:00 -
[247] - Quote
You really shouldn't trick people into training Amarr Drone SpecialisationGǪ to any level, really, but certainly not to V.
At least not until you make the drones themselves useful for something because right now, there situations where there might be some conceivable (utterly minute) advantage to equipping them are so far and few between, and completely impossible to predict, that it's a waste of people's time.
So I suggest that you just remove that skill completely and then keep harassing someone to do a drone balancing pass to let you put it back in. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3066
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Posted - 2013.11.21 23:45:00 -
[248] - Quote
Tippia wrote:You really shouldn't trick people into training Amarr Drone SpecialisationGǪ to any level, really, but certainly not to V. At least not until you make the drones themselves useful for something because right now, there situations where there might be some conceivable (utterly minute) advantage to equipping them are so far and few between, and completely impossible to predict, that it's a waste of people's time. So I suggest that you just remove that skill completely and then keep harassing someone to do a drone balancing pass to let you put it back in.
5 is only needed for the "super elite look at me ma'" level For Masteries level 4 you have it at 1 which doesn't take long if you have access to the other specializations. But I agree it isn't that useful right now. |
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Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
1059
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Posted - 2013.11.22 00:46:00 -
[249] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote: 5 is only needed for the "super elite look at me ma'" level
Then make it level VI, rather than wasting a mastery level on something which isn't helpful at all :) |
Valterra Craven
132
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Posted - 2013.11.22 01:19:00 -
[250] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Tippia wrote:You really shouldn't trick people into training Amarr Drone SpecialisationGǪ to any level, really, but certainly not to V. At least not until you make the drones themselves useful for something because right now, there situations where there might be some conceivable (utterly minute) advantage to equipping them are so far and few between, and completely impossible to predict, that it's a waste of people's time. So I suggest that you just remove that skill completely and then keep harassing someone to do a drone balancing pass to let you put it back in. 5 is only needed for the "super elite look at me ma'" level For Masteries level 4 you have it at 1 which doesn't take long if you have access to the other specializations. But I agree it isn't that useful right now.
Personally I think you should just make drones more like missiles and stop this nonsense of useful drones vs non useful drones.
IE, all have same speed, tracking, dmg, etc, but have them do different damage types. I swear you guys make everything so complicated when it doesnt need to be. |
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Valterra Craven
132
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Posted - 2013.11.22 01:24:00 -
[251] - Quote
On another note, the cert system as it stands right now still needs work...
It makes no sense that every ship should have the tackle cert... if you get tackled by a Rattlesnake... there's something wrong.
There's just too many of these useless certs on ships as it stand right now that it isnt very useful.
Or the fact that command ships require all 4 of the leadership masteries when they can only link 2 of those per the skill bonuses is stupid as well. why on earth would you link out of race... you lose 15% which is significant in terms of boosts. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
799
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Posted - 2013.11.22 03:01:00 -
[252] - Quote
You tease me by making Adv Target Management IV necessary on ship that natively locks 10 targets (Kronos). |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
946
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Posted - 2013.11.22 04:35:00 -
[253] - Quote
I like how my main who cannot fly a freighter has higher freighter mastery than my freighter alt. |
Destoya
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
197
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Posted - 2013.11.22 05:49:00 -
[254] - Quote
What do you think of introducing a new level of masteries for the level 5 one, but keeping the current level 5 as some sort of golden/elite level? Right now there is a downright massive skill gap between a level 4 and a level 5 mastery, which I feel definitely decreases the potential usefulness of the mastery system for new and experienced players alike. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17468
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Posted - 2013.11.22 14:12:00 -
[255] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:5 is only needed for the "super elite look at me ma'" level For Masteries level 4 you have it at 1 which doesn't take long if you have access to the other specializations. But I agree it isn't that useful right now. Personally I think you should just make drones more like missiles and stop this nonsense of useful drones vs non useful drones. IE, all have same speed, tracking, dmg, etc, but have them do different damage types. I swear you guys make everything so complicated when it doesnt need to be. This is more my point, really, but now that there's a feature with some attention, it could be used as a trojan horse to get some much-needed low-priority changes done.
Amarr Drone Spec might as well be Astronautic Engineering for all the good it does since the drones are so utterly useless. So:
Step 1: remove Amarr Drone Spec completely from ISIS. Step 2: report to the next co-ordination session that the players won't let you put it back in until Amarr drones are made useful. Step 3: TBC (will probably be: Amarr Drone Spec never appears in the ISIS again). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
600
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Posted - 2013.11.22 21:27:00 -
[256] - Quote
shouldn't all mining ships have industrial drones as certs rather than scout drones? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1160
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Posted - 2013.11.23 00:25:00 -
[257] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium, I have a question.
Why exactly does the Tengu have "Scout Drones" in its Lv5 Mastery list?
Is this some foreshadowing of planned changes coming in the T3 rebalance? |
Boris Amarr
Viziam Amarr Empire
74
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Posted - 2013.11.23 12:30:00 -
[258] - Quote
Assault frigs can lock 5 target maximum. But for 4 and 5 level mastery it required Target Managment V. Why ? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17497
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Posted - 2013.11.23 14:01:00 -
[259] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:CCP Ytterbium, I have a question.
Why exactly does the Tengu have "Scout Drones" in its Lv5 Mastery list?
Is this some foreshadowing of planned changes coming in the T3 rebalance? Because it can field 5 light drones if you set it up for it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Fifth Blade
The Nyan Cat Pirates Disband.
17
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Posted - 2013.11.23 23:38:00 -
[260] - Quote
I have compiled a gallery of screenshots of certificates with questionable (to downright absurd) requirements.
Reasoning for each...in order...below:
Manufacturing I: Requires Anchoring III. No one who has just begun manufacturing a few modules or bits of ammo in a station needs this. Poor guide, misleading.
Production Efficiency V is required outside of producing items for yourself. Even then you could almost always buy them cheaper than producing with PE at 1. Yet this is not here and Anchoring III is. This is a terrible, actively harmful and misleading guide for anyone starting to manufacture.
Manufacturing III:
Anchoring V, still not needed for production. One character might need anchoring related to pos activities, yes. But this is neither strictly manufacturing, nor is it relevant in most cases (not every production character also needs anchoring to V) Especially not with a mid-skill certificate.
Outpost construction III No, just no. If this must be here, push it up in the certificate but the fact it is here at all is grotesque.
Manufacturing IV:
Suddenly, Subsystem Technology skills. No introduction at I, the only level required for actual manufacturing, straight in at IV out of the blue, for a type of manufacturing most people never touch, even those who have amassed huge fortunes manufacturing at a scale many could only dream of.
Perhaps the manufacturing certificate could use some differentiation? eg. T2 certificate / T3 Certificate / Capital Manufacturing Certificate / Drug Manufacturing Certificate? Stuffing outposts and everything else into one certificate seems crazy.
Datacore IV:
Random Subsystem Technology skills again. Rank I does not appear anywhere, then suddenly IV at rank IV.
Research IV
Research Project Management? This is useless until R&D agents are fixed. A completely misleading mastery level. The datacores you can obtain even with this skill maxed are so absurdly small it doesn't actually help you with research. At best it is a supporting skill to research, rather than research itself. It is poorly named.
Trade IV:
Requires marketing V??? Shouldn't this be IV? Four is the rank which unlocks further skills.
Trade V:
Opposite problem here.... Requires Visibility IV instead of V?
Scanning IV:
Survey IV. While it technically fits in this category, this is completely unhelpful for anyone using certificates as a guide for proficiency in a particular pursuit. Please do not recommend training Survey to up and coming explorers.
Supercapital Target Management / Advanced Target Management: This disparity here speaks for itself. It is silly. |
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1165
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Posted - 2013.11.24 00:04:00 -
[261] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote:CCP Ytterbium, I have a question.
Why exactly does the Tengu have "Scout Drones" in its Lv5 Mastery list?
Is this some foreshadowing of planned changes coming in the T3 rebalance? Because it can field 5 light drones if you set it up for it.
New question! How did I never ever notice that? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17500
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Posted - 2013.11.24 01:09:00 -
[262] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Tippia wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote:CCP Ytterbium, I have a question.
Why exactly does the Tengu have "Scout Drones" in its Lv5 Mastery list?
Is this some foreshadowing of planned changes coming in the T3 rebalance? Because it can field 5 light drones if you set it up for it. New question! How did I never ever notice that? Because no-one ever uses that subsystem. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Fifth Blade
The Nyan Cat Pirates Disband.
17
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Posted - 2013.11.24 16:00:00 -
[263] - Quote
Kronos mastery rank IV: Requires Advanced Target Management IV, Sensor Compensation IV, decent drone skills (IV or V), Armor compensations to IV etc but doesn't require gun spec above I. Large Blaster / Railgun Spec IV would have a much larger effect than most of the aforementioned requirements in practice. The current state also leaves a huge gap between Mastery rank IV and V.
Might i suggest that you require: Gun spec I at mastery rank III, Gun spec IV at mastery rank IV Gun spec V at mastery rank V
This provides less of a huge gap between ranks IV and V and also serves as a better guide for newer pilots. (If you are flying a marauder, a ship with a large SP requirement, you should not be above rank II mastery without t2 guns)
Edit: this probably applies to all the marauders, I haven't checked. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
600
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:18:00 -
[264] - Quote
i think you need to take a better in depth look at each ship i.e. cynabal has an artillery spec lv1 on mastery lv4 no-one puts arties on a cynabal .. now maybe on mastery lv5 it makes more sense as it is possible to put arties on it if you really wanted too..
also please look at target management lv5 on most ships you can't even use that skill to add more lockable targets as each ship/class has a limit on how many you can lock so even lv4 might not be needed on frigs Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
600
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:27:00 -
[265] - Quote
also armor reinforcement at lv5 mastery on shield ships is odd... yes more EHP as a result but its a shield ship armour and structure HP isn't very important.... also why is hull HP skill in a armour reinforcement cert it makes no sense ... surely a separate hull cert would make more sense for ships that need it at whatever level to use the hull upgrade mods.. or whatever Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
600
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Posted - 2013.11.25 22:12:00 -
[266] - Quote
why does the daredevil need shield reinforcement lv5 for mastery lv5? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Mike Whiite
Stupid Stunts The Wolfpack Nexus
238
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Posted - 2013.11.26 08:31:00 -
[267] - Quote
I understand the need to simplify the old system, though if these mastery levels need to be a guide to new players I think there needs to be made a distinqtion between core certiicates and support certificates.
I use a SNI for Missioning.
I noticed yesterday I fly it currently at mastery lvl 1, considering i do 1000+ DPS with enough EHP to solo me though every mission with 2 fingers up my nose while talking to the mrs. I considered that rather strange.
with a quick look at the certiicates needed I found out that although I have Core ship, core shield, Core fitting at 5 and large missiles at 4 I'm still at 1 because I lack a level of electronic drone interfacing.
Although I see the benefits of training the skill and my ego won't be hurt by flying the ship at mastery 1.
Isn't it a bit missleading to newer players, just because electronic drone interacing will do less for your SNI than Cruise missile specialisation for instance.
+ìt's a minor critism, because I like most what you guys did with the certiicates aside that I'll miss claiming them :) |
Luscius Uta
Unleashed' Fury Forsaken Federation
58
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Posted - 2013.11.26 10:02:00 -
[268] - Quote
Why is the related Freighter skill not included in certificates for Freighters? That leaves a possibility to have lvl 5 mastery for a ship you can't even fly! |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1420
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Posted - 2013.11.27 11:12:00 -
[269] - Quote
I don't have mastery in ships I have perfect skills for and have hundreds of kills in because I can't use probes. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
601
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Posted - 2013.11.27 15:13:00 -
[270] - Quote
also on the mining ships they should have a bigger dronebay so you can have 2 sets light of drones 1 for mining drones 1 for combat drones
then indy drones as the main cert instead of scout drones as its not a combat ship but an indy one Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
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