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Omar Alharazaad
ZomCom
121
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Posted - 2013.11.12 15:22:00 -
[31] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:I suppose if the lot of you were extremely drunk and on comms at the same time it could be bearable. You could also just wardec all the indy corps in the area you plan on operating in and come beat up their barges with your barges and steal their minerals from their smoking hulls... would probably be a great deal more entertaining. Edit: Added bonus of using mining ships to kill mining ships is removing the whole "unfair" whinge that inevitably arises. sounds lke you want to awox I would, but I have an overdeveloped conscience... I have no stomach for betraying trust, as my own trust bucket is perpetually and woefully empty. I try tho, that is to trust, by occasionally extending the hand of friendship while firmly gripping the knife in the hand behind my back... just in case. |
Tychus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.11.12 15:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
If you really want to make people cry, hump ice. Ice is much less common than rocks and spawns in much smaller quantities. Controlling how much people pay to fuel their POS systems affects a lot of stuff, including bpc and tech 2 production. If you're serious send me an eve mail, I'm interested and could bring 3 macks/orca to the party.... |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1711
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Posted - 2013.11.12 15:39:00 -
[33] - Quote
I can usually rob a system of at least half of it's belts while waiting for an ice belt to respawn. Count me in if this ever get set up, just to annoy the new order guys. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Karrl Tian
Bourbon Bandits Anarchy.
245
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Posted - 2013.11.12 15:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
Taal Khurin wrote:I still do not get all the fascination with greifing miners etc. There seems to be so many threads devoted to it, it almost seems like a miner touched them in a naughty place when they were young or something.
It's also strangely really only a vaguely recent thing, up until a couple of years ago you rarely heard about suicide ganking barges.
I'm puzzled too, we've gone from Hulkageddon---a yearly contest to see who could gank the most barges---to bumping miners like kids tipping a fat-person on a scooter at Wal-Mart.
A couple of years ago, miners knew how to take care of themselves and those who didn't were told by the rest to HTFU and fit a goddamned tank when they died. Miners and industrialists loved it when ganks happened, as it meant seeing their competition go down in flames. Hell, the best way to do a suicide gank was to be an industrialist and build the gank-ships yourself and collect the insurance when you died.
Not sure when the current tear-cascade started, tbh. If you want an indication to how the culture has changed, consider how Crimewatch was implemented to replace the old theft mechanics that were implemented at the request of the community specifically so miners could defend their ore themselves.
If I had to guess why it is the way it is, it may have had something to do with the introduction of the large-gun BCs and the destroyer buff making miner-ganking way easier for a 6-month period to which CCP responded by over-buffing barges. As a business, they'd tote the Sandbox/Cruel universe line until they're blue in the face, but if something made a bunch of high-sec alts unsub (Alts and PLEX being their bread-and-butter at this point) then steps would be taken to change that.
This, of course, royally pissed off the people who made a living off "greefing the minorz" but they've always adapted and found new ways (unlike their victims) hence all the threads brainstorming and pooling ideas. |
Meilandra Vanderganken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.11.12 15:59:00 -
[35] - Quote
If you ever decide to go this route on whatever level, even if it is just the simple 1 system or even one belt aproach, Eve-mail me. |
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
76
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Posted - 2013.11.12 16:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mining to grief miners... why do i see this coming full circle?
Also it's pretty interesting how many of you have exhumers and mining trained... Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur.-á |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
305
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Posted - 2013.11.12 22:23:00 -
[37] - Quote
dexington wrote:Himnos Altar wrote: It would be fun sometime to form a corporation whose sole purpose is to strip mine several constellations/region(s) immediately after Downtime so that nobody else could get anything from there that day. I think you are overestimating the ability of 30 skiff.
Let's see....
1 Procurer with T2 laser/, T2 crystal and boost mines at around 4k per cycle, with max Orca boosts roughly 2 minutes.
so 2k m3 per minute *30=60k m3 per hour per Procurer with 2 MLUs in the lows, yield drops around 25%/cycle if it's DC2, other tanky thing in the lows.
Haven't flown Skiffs in a while so I'm not sure the bonus they've got.
Let's say 30 Procurers, so we have again, 60k m3 per minute, or 1800k m3 per hour assuming they never stop.
Let's say that they only get 50k per minute on average, factoring in inattentiveness, warp, dock, crystal change, lock timesetc into things.
1500k m3 per hour
1,500,000 m3 per hour for a 30 max skill/boost Procurer fleet. I'd say that would put a serious dent into any belt/system. I'd put the value of each Procurer at roughly 20M or so if each had MLU, T2 Strips, T2 crystals, T2 fit. Maybe 25. At that point it's both shield tanking which is their role, and cheap tanking like miners flying retrievers.
This number would go up depending on how ore was collected (dumping into Orca, Orca docks; GSC/Kryos, etc).
Again, this is just theorycrafting.
But I don't think I overestimate the power of a 30 Skiff fleet. The big problem would be getting rid of all the Plag. This could be solved by stationing GSCs every 10KM or so and giving each Plag miner a certain radius (5KM or so) to clear out. |
Toshiroma McDiesel
Lupus Draconis Dragehund
181
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Posted - 2013.11.12 22:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:make asteroids destroyable
They already are, your just using the wrong tools
I"m not really the Evil One, I'm just his answering service. |
Jessica Braun
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2013.11.12 23:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
Taal Khurin wrote:I still do not get all the fascination with greifing miners etc. There seems to be so many threads devoted to it, it almost seems like a miner touched them in a naughty place when they were young or something.
It's also strangely really only a vaguely recent thing, up until a couple of years ago you rarely heard about suicide ganking barges.
It's not as prevalent as they would like us to believe. A handful of vocal kids with limited motor skills picked some choice systems to take out a handful of mostly ignorant and ill-equipped miners. Bonus for them is that they are led by someone with a lot of time on his hands to Photoshop chat logs and run a blog. They should get a tip-of-the-hat for their marketing but they are really nothing more then insects who make noise. It works on the forums but in the vastness of space, they are so very tiny.
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Meilandra Vanderganken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.11.12 23:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jessica Braun wrote:Taal Khurin wrote:I still do not get all the fascination with greifing miners etc. There seems to be so many threads devoted to it, it almost seems like a miner touched them in a naughty place when they were young or something.
It's also strangely really only a vaguely recent thing, up until a couple of years ago you rarely heard about suicide ganking barges. It's not as prevalent as they would like us to believe. A handful of vocal kids with limited motor skills picked some choice systems to take out a handful of mostly ignorant and ill-equipped miners. Bonus for them is that they are led by someone with a lot of time on his hands to Photoshop chat logs and run a blog. They should get a tip-of-the-hat for their marketing but they are really nothing more then insects who make noise. It works on the forums but in the vastness of space, they are so very tiny. What surprises me most is that the average ignorant, ill-equipped miner is hell bent on believing that they can't do anything about getting ganked/griefed.
I blow them up all the time and link them a guide on how to tank and pilot to avoid getting ganked. Most will simply deny that they can do anything about it and continue whining and **** fitting their barges and sitting on the warp in spot in belts and ice fields stationary... |
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
2235
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Posted - 2013.11.12 23:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
Electrique Wizard wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:make asteroids destroyable Make this happen I remember when they were on SiSi; I think it was just before Inferno. Of course, everything else was too, which resulted in stargates getting destroyed. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
522
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Posted - 2013.11.13 00:20:00 -
[42] - Quote
I'd even like to see star gates destroyable. Can you imagine cutting off access to a system completely so that the only way in or out are alternative methods like wormholes or preexisting cyno ships etc. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Aedh Phelan
Krannon of Sherwood Carthage Empires
34
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Posted - 2013.11.13 01:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
Miners griefing miners by mining. Interesting. I assume you will be jet-canning the ore and using drones to blow them up? |
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
76
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Posted - 2013.11.13 01:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote: What surprises me most is that the average ignorant, ill-equipped miner is hell bent on believing that they can't do anything about getting ganked/griefed.
I blow them up all the time and link them a guide on how to tank and pilot to avoid getting ganked. Most will simply deny that they can do anything about it and continue whining and **** fitting their barges and sitting on the warp in spot in belts and ice fields stationary...
Because it's true. Your "lesson" is only the limit imposed by your laziness and what skills you have trained. Saying "dont fit this and you wont get ganked" or "fit these things and you wont get ganked" is an absolute lie.
I don't understand the obsession gankers have with shifting responsibility onto their victims, if you are a ganker you are the bad guy, just frickin own it already.
Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur.-á |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1490
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 01:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:Meilandra Vanderganken wrote: What surprises me most is that the average ignorant, ill-equipped miner is hell bent on believing that they can't do anything about getting ganked/griefed.
I blow them up all the time and link them a guide on how to tank and pilot to avoid getting ganked. Most will simply deny that they can do anything about it and continue whining and **** fitting their barges and sitting on the warp in spot in belts and ice fields stationary...
Because it's true. Your "lesson" is only the limit imposed by your laziness and what skills you have trained. Saying "dont fit this and you wont get ganked" or "fit these things and you wont get ganked" is an absolute lie. I don't understand the obsession gankers have with shifting responsibility onto their victims, if you are a ganker you are the bad guy, just frickin own it already.
Oh, believe me, I do own the whole "bad guy" thing. Bad Company, and I can't deny.
But it is almost 100% their own fault if they get ganked. There are some things to do, easy things, that reduce the chance of you randomly (randomly is the key here) getting ganked.
Most ganks are attacks of opportunity at weak and/or profitable targets. Don't be both of those things, and you would be damned surprised at the degree to which you get overlooked.
Now, granted, if someone wants you dead for a meta reason, a reason beyond just profit, they will do so. Whether you make yourself a "hard target" or not. There really isn't a solution to a determined group of multiple people, aside from telling you that the nail that stands up gets pounded down.
So, to close, I would say that I don't really understand the obsession with the perennial victims shifting responsibility for their own self defense away from themselves. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
364
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Posted - 2013.11.13 02:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
Himnos Altar wrote:This is just a random thought that occured to me that I thought I'd pass along. It would be fun sometime to form a corporation whose sole purpose is to strip mine several constellations/region(s) immediately after Downtime so that nobody else could get anything from there that day.
Get 30 or so Skiffs/Procurers that are in no way cost-effective to gank, hoover the minerals, and move on. Orcas kept in safe spots way, way inside the undock radius fit for tank, mining support (Range, Speed Mining links, the shield resist link). (underneath/on top of the stations?)
Basically the strategy of the aliens from Independence Day.
Mainly thought of this strategy after watching myself and a few alts destroy a belt in an hour or so. Began to wonder what a much larger, concerted effort could do.
Practical? Nah.
But it would be fun to see a bunch of people whining about not having any minerals to mine.
Granted, this is probably already employed near Jita.
Just a random thought that farted out that I thought I'd share.
No, it's not a thought about ganking miners to grief them but actually mining to grief miners in later TZs
MvM
Miners v Miners
:P
How would this be any different then the existing multi-boxing alt corps that do exactly that every day.... FAIL. Look at all the Macks in local...impressive...very impressive...I see you have fashioned a new exhumer...much like you father's...your skills as a miner are now complete...indeed you are powerful as CCP Devs have foreseen. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1167
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 05:28:00 -
[47] - Quote
If you have enough pilots to do that, you have enough pilots to smartbomb every belt in the game. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. The difference between an enemy and a friend is that you stab your enemies in the front. |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
130
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Posted - 2013.11.13 06:55:00 -
[48] - Quote
Your miner griefing sounds like minor griefing. |
Meilandra Vanderganken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2013.11.13 11:17:00 -
[49] - Quote
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:Meilandra Vanderganken wrote: What surprises me most is that the average ignorant, ill-equipped miner is hell bent on believing that they can't do anything about getting ganked/griefed.
I blow them up all the time and link them a guide on how to tank and pilot to avoid getting ganked. Most will simply deny that they can do anything about it and continue whining and **** fitting their barges and sitting on the warp in spot in belts and ice fields stationary...
Because it's true. Your "lesson" is only the limit imposed by your laziness and what skills you have trained. Saying "dont fit this and you wont get ganked" or "fit these things and you wont get ganked" is an absolute lie. I don't understand the obsession gankers have with shifting responsibility onto their victims, if you are a ganker you are the bad guy, just frickin own it already. And here is one now....
I'm not claiming you can be unkillable, you can't be in EVE. What you can do however is increase your chance of survival by a huge ammount in general and an even way bigger ammount when you are a high sec dweller.
If every single miner would follow the guide I link them I would be done with solo ganking. You'd need whole fleets of catalysts to gank anyone then. Which requires more effort/time/isk/training/buddies/accounts, which results in less total ganks since those resources are finite, which translates into the galaxy being a safer place. |
Jythier Smith
WATERSHIP HOLDINGS Harmonic Convergence
106
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Posted - 2013.11.13 14:14:00 -
[50] - Quote
Link to guide, please? :) |
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dexington
Dexington Corporation
883
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Posted - 2013.11.13 14:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
Jythier Smith wrote:Link to guide, please? :)
buy a procurer I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Meilandra Vanderganken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2013.11.13 14:28:00 -
[52] - Quote
Jythier Smith wrote:Link to guide, please? :)
http://greedygoblin.blogspot.nl/p/why-was-i-ganked.html
It's not mine btw so any gripes you have about it's content, I'm not responsible :P .
I for one am not too happy about the sentence:" Keep reading and the gank that sent you here was the last one!", since you can never be unkillable in EVE unless you're docked up. Other than that, it all makes perfect sense and from what I've experienced the numbers are more or less correct.
Anyone following it's content to the letter should deffo stop being an easy low hanging fruit gank target. |
Meilandra Vanderganken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2013.11.13 14:36:00 -
[53] - Quote
dexington wrote:Jythier Smith wrote:Link to guide, please? :) buy a procurer You have to be more specific or they WILL find ways to anti-tank that thing so hard that it would become an easy target still
"What do I need structure for? Structure is not tank! *fits cargo rigs and extenders*". |
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
78
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:30:00 -
[54] - Quote
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:
And here is one now....
I'm not claiming you can be unkillable, you can't be in EVE. What you can do however is increase your chance of survival by a huge ammount in general and an even way bigger ammount when you are a high sec dweller.
If every single miner would follow the guide I link them I would be done with solo ganking. You'd need whole fleets of catalysts to gank anyone then. Which requires more effort/time/isk/training/buddies/accounts, which results in less total ganks since those resources are finite, which translates into the galaxy being a safer place.
tl;dr if the extra MLU's arent covering your losses and then some, you may be mining wrong.
The tankiest hulk in .5 can be killed with two skilled people. Not exactly a whole fleet, but hey. Statistically speaking, with the current ratio of gankers to miners it's still smarter to yield-fit and stay alone on grid. Unless you are being hunted purposefully, in which case no tank will save you.
If you think the crap you are spouting is a lesson, you either suck at mining or numbers.
Every day with you people it's "this was totally your fault". Just OWN IT, you wanted the ore and/or the killmail so you took it. You are not a teacher, you are not handing out valuable lessons. You are a thief. If you can't handle that you shouldn't be doing it. Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur.-á |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
317
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Posted - 2013.11.14 04:56:00 -
[55] - Quote
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:
And here is one now....
I'm not claiming you can be unkillable, you can't be in EVE. What you can do however is increase your chance of survival by a huge ammount in general and an even way bigger ammount when you are a high sec dweller.
If every single miner would follow the guide I link them I would be done with solo ganking. You'd need whole fleets of catalysts to gank anyone then. Which requires more effort/time/isk/training/buddies/accounts, which results in less total ganks since those resources are finite, which translates into the galaxy being a safer place.
tl;dr if the extra MLU's arent covering your losses and then some, you may be mining wrong. The tankiest hulk in .5 can be killed with two skilled people. Not exactly a whole fleet, but hey. Statistically speaking, with the current ratio of gankers to miners it's still smarter to yield-fit and stay alone on grid. Unless you are being hunted purposefully, in which case no tank will save you. If you think the crap you are spouting is a lesson, you either suck at mining or numbers. Every day with you people it's "this was totally your fault". Just OWN IT, you wanted the ore and/or the killmail so you took it. You are not a teacher, you are not handing out valuable lessons. You are a thief. If you can't handle that you shouldn't be doing it.
And this is EVE, and there's nothing wrong with being a thief in EVE.
EVE has the worst damn community ever.
It also has the best damn community ever.
If you're only seeing one of these, you're doing something wrong.
On the other hand, if you don't learn from your losses, you are also doing something wrong.
Every sense of PVP, whether it's ship v ship, miner v miner, market v market, **** chat v shitchat should be a learning experience.
Every player in EVE is a teacher to every other player in EVE |
Cavalira
Valar Morghulis. Goonswarm Federation
196
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Posted - 2013.11.14 10:42:00 -
[56] - Quote
...or you could align your barge, so whenever catalysts appear on short scan, you can warp away. |
Electrique Wizard
Mutually Lucrative Business Proposals Market and Contract PVP
84
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Posted - 2013.11.14 10:53:00 -
[57] - Quote
Cavalira wrote:...or you could align your barge, so whenever catalysts appear on short scan, you can warp away. But how can they warp when they're watching a movie |
dexington
Dexington Corporation
885
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Posted - 2013.11.14 11:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
Cavalira wrote:...or you could align your barge, so whenever catalysts appear on short scan, you can warp away.
you are always aligned with zero velocity. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Skeln Thargensen
Alpha Sperglords
287
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Posted - 2013.11.14 11:21:00 -
[59] - Quote
you guys should try mining attentively. freelance space bum |
Meilandra Vanderganken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2013.11.15 11:56:00 -
[60] - Quote
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:
And here is one now....
I'm not claiming you can be unkillable, you can't be in EVE. What you can do however is increase your chance of survival by a huge ammount in general and an even way bigger ammount when you are a high sec dweller.
If every single miner would follow the guide I link them I would be done with solo ganking. You'd need whole fleets of catalysts to gank anyone then. Which requires more effort/time/isk/training/buddies/accounts, which results in less total ganks since those resources are finite, which translates into the galaxy being a safer place.
tl;dr if the extra MLU's arent covering your losses and then some, you may be mining wrong. The tankiest hulk in .5 can be killed with two skilled people. Not exactly a whole fleet, but hey. Statistically speaking, with the current ratio of gankers to miners it's still smarter to yield-fit and stay alone on grid. Unless you are being hunted purposefully, in which case no tank will save you. If you think the crap you are spouting is a lesson, you either suck at mining or numbers. Flying a tanked Hulk in 0.5 is not 'following the guide'. In fact the guide litteraly says you should not fly any Hulk in High Sec....
The guide is not about maximizing yield either, it's about reducing your chance to get ganked. If anyone decides to go for a yield ship/fit and take their chances they're again not 'following the guide'.
And my point was: if EVERYONE followed the guide, my solo ganking days would be over. And that still stands, you're not providing any arguments against that by picking examples that do the opposite of what the guide says.
Quote: Every day with you people it's "this was totally your fault". Just OWN IT, you wanted the ore and/or the killmail so you took it. You are not a teacher, you are not handing out valuable lessons. You are a thief. If you can't handle that you shouldn't be doing it.
I am owning it, loving it even. And providing tips on how to avoid getting 'owned'. Also: u mad? U sound mad bro... |
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