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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Setsune Rin
Collapsed Out Shadow Cartel
106
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Posted - 2013.12.04 10:16:00 -
[421] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:We can certainly discuss this amount vs range thing. Can you guys help me out saying specifically in relation to it:
Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both? Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount?
Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.
definetly an AND
range without amount is trivial (it doesn't get a cap bonus so its got that counting against it already) and amount without range means you lose way to much maneuverability to spidertank such a fast ship
and overall it has to fit a role somewhere, spidertanking two of these puppies might get you somewhere
but the scanning bonuses and analyzing bonuses are silly, you wouldn't go scan around unfamiliar space in an uncloaked 1b+ battleship
or at least you shouldn't
and then cap, its got the mids going for it so for micro gang pvp it can boost but in extended battles running large reps is going to be brutal, maybe with a-type mediums it can run a decently stable setup with respectable repping but it still needs that range to work
but then why would you pick it? a domi+guardian setup can outshine this quite easily even in small gang
i would honestly tone it down a bit on the repping bonus, give it a range bonus alongside plus knock 25 off the bandwith and give it a covert cloak
then you finally have half decent blackops with logi so you don't need to drop carriers with blackops so much
right now its just an expensive PVE brick, this has no place in a propper fleet
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Serah Lightning
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2013.12.04 10:18:00 -
[422] - Quote
Interesting to finally see it, but if you really want it to make sense with the rest of the SOE ships, and to make it TRULY UNIQUE, it needs to have a covert jump drive, and a rep range bonus (not rep power). BLOPS logi from a faction ship with significantly higher price would be a perfect fit. I'd even be in favour if killing or nerfing the drone bonus if it got the other features.
Pricing and availability would keep it from showing up in fleet battles in more than token amounts.
e: maybe give it the ability to light covert cynos as well - it would be a great fit with the probing bonus and BLOPS usage. A subcap ship that's going to trade into the billions should have some unique abilities.
You have an opportunity here to make something that is NOT like every other ship in the game. |
Serah Lightning
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2013.12.04 10:23:00 -
[423] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:We can certainly discuss this amount vs range thing. Can you guys help me out saying specifically in relation to it:
Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both? Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount?
Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.
Rep amount is something that is only useful in a few very limited use cases. Rep range is almost always more attractive. A mixed bonus would be something that no other ship has so might not be crazy. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
586
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Posted - 2013.12.04 10:29:00 -
[424] - Quote
This looks like probably the most shizo ship design ever.
And honestly, it's boring. I was hoping to see those stats asap, but the ship ended up being just underbonused Dominix with laser and "explo" bonuses noone will ever use. |
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
16
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Posted - 2013.12.04 10:30:00 -
[425] - Quote
I don-¦t want to see it with a bridge or bridgeablity. Covers the weekness of BlOPs too good. Why not go fully overboard and give it something really unique like a few secs less aligntime. Refittingservice and SMAspace for one cruiser, to turn it into an offensive orca. Bonus to dronesmwd speed and to ewardrones, so it can be kind of a supportcarrier. Tone the price down so it can be a MJDable oneiros with small range.
For PvE it will compete with ishtars, domis and all the other droneboats just with a much higher pricetag. We already have enough of those. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
446
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Posted - 2013.12.04 10:32:00 -
[426] - Quote
Shilalasar wrote:I don-¦t want to see it with a bridge or bridgeablity. Covers the weekness of BlOPs too good. Why not go fully overboard and give it something really unique like a few secs less aligntime. Refittingservice and SMAspace for one cruiser, to turn it into an offensive orca. Bonus to dronesmwd speed and to ewardrones, so it can be kind of a supportcarrier. Tone the price down so it can be a MJDable oneiros with small range.
For PvE it will compete with ishtars, domis and all the other droneboats just with a much higher pricetag. We already have enough of those.
Refitting in combat is massively broken and is due to be nerfed loads. |
Janeway84
Masters Of Destiny Pride Before Fall
45
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Posted - 2013.12.04 10:37:00 -
[427] - Quote
I kind of wish you could change energy turret optimal range bonus to Cov ops cloaking bonus or to rep range bonus |
Scorpionstrike
Oh Bugga League 0f Grumpy 0ld Farts
6
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Posted - 2013.12.04 10:41:00 -
[428] - Quote
CCP Rise,
while the team is doing work on the Nestor, could there be consideration for a 5 second cloak refresh for the astero and the Stratios ? |
Karachna Orglaz
0
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Posted - 2013.12.04 10:44:00 -
[429] - Quote
Personally, I'd love to see the mini carrier. Covert extraction possibly? In, tank some damage, grab the injured ship, leave. Cloak bonus/Warp stability would probably be best for it. Would fit the theme of SOE and would really fulfill an odd role, brining something truly unique.
I wouldn't listen to me though, I'm an idiot. |
Nami Kumamato
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.12.04 10:49:00 -
[430] - Quote
Please make it covops capable (or at least grant it some cloack bonus), their whole theme evolves around it. I mean you send a self-sufficient expedition deep within uncharted territory for long term deployment, and (basically) your support ship is the only one that left it's stealth-socks at home? Logic.
It's like saying that from the strategic bombing unit (B2's and F-117's) the B2 (the most important part of the unit) is not stealth capable. Yea, great thing his buddies are... |
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Kane Fenris
NWP
135
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Posted - 2013.12.04 10:56:00 -
[431] - Quote
like the stats but I am bit disappointed i would have liked to see a covert bs or something other more special
although the remote rep bonus is nice for ppl with more than 1 acc maybe you can get your drones to tank for you but i'm a little sceptical about that being reliable i don't have much experience in that strategy of tanking |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
64
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Posted - 2013.12.04 10:57:00 -
[432] - Quote
Quote:NESTOR: The PeaceKeeper
Amarr Battleship Bonuses: 4% Armor resistances per level
Gallente Battleship Bonuses: 10% drone damage and hitpoints per level
Role bonuses: 25% Energy turret Damage 50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range 10% Reduced Capacitor need for energy turrets
Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU(Adjust as needed) Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 10550 / 9000 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 400 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7 Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric Signature radius: 465 Cargo Capacity: 700
This is what is needed. Dps maybe a little to much, so maybe 15% to turret dmg? EDIT: Personally i would give it 6th unbonused turret, 1 mid to low, and keep rr bonus (but due to the 6th turret only one could be fitted). |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
446
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Posted - 2013.12.04 11:04:00 -
[433] - Quote
Cassius Invictus wrote:Quote:NESTOR: The PeaceKeeper
Amarr Battleship Bonuses: 4% Armor resistances per level
Gallente Battleship Bonuses: 10% drone damage and hitpoints per level
Role bonuses: 25% Energy turret Damage 50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range 10% Reduced Capacitor need for energy turrets
Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU(Adjust as needed) Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 10550 / 9000 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 400 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7 Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric Signature radius: 465 Cargo Capacity: 700 This is what is needed. Dps maybe a little to much, so maybe 15% to turret dmg? EDIT: Personally i would give it 6th unbonused turret, 1 mid to low, and keep rr bonus (but due to the 6th turret only one could be fitted).
It's not too much, it's just like the old dominix but tankier and with a worse weapon system (lasers). |
Karachna Orglaz
0
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Posted - 2013.12.04 11:05:00 -
[434] - Quote
Cassius Invictus wrote:Quote:NESTOR: The PeaceKeeper
Amarr Battleship Bonuses: 4% Armor resistances per level
Gallente Battleship Bonuses: 10% drone damage and hitpoints per level
Role bonuses: 25% Energy turret Damage 50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range 10% Reduced Capacitor need for energy turrets
Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU(Adjust as needed) Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 10550 / 9000 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 400 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7 Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric Signature radius: 465 Cargo Capacity: 700 This is what is needed. Dps maybe a little to much, so maybe 15% to turret dmg?
Only, SOE shouldn't be considered "Peacekeepers". You've got the exploration on the way in, the Asteros. The strength to fight lies in the Stratios. The Nestor should be the last input. The help to stay (repping, as has already been designed) or the choice to leave (carrier or distraction to serve as a method of leaving).
Turning it into nothing but another laser boat would just serve to further generalise the ship and be the final nail in the coffin for it's uniqueness. |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
81
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Posted - 2013.12.04 11:08:00 -
[435] - Quote
Karachna Orglaz wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:Quote:NESTOR: The PeaceKeeper
Amarr Battleship Bonuses: 4% Armor resistances per level
Gallente Battleship Bonuses: 10% drone damage and hitpoints per level
Role bonuses: 25% Energy turret Damage 50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range 10% Reduced Capacitor need for energy turrets
Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU(Adjust as needed) Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 10550 / 9000 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 400 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7 Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric Signature radius: 465 Cargo Capacity: 700 This is what is needed. Dps maybe a little to much, so maybe 15% to turret dmg? Only, SOE shouldn't be considered "Peacekeepers". You've got the exploration on the way in, the Asteros. The strength to fight lies in the Stratios. The Nestor should be the last input. The help to stay (repping, as has already been designed) or the choice to leave (carrier or distraction to serve as a method of leaving). Turning it into nothing but another laser boat would just serve to further generalise the ship and be the final nail in the coffin for it's uniqueness.
Should probably read entire post the quote was taken from....... was just 1 of 2 design layouts suggested, both with the goal of getting a focused bonus set, not 4 different bonus sets for different things. The Law is a point of View |
Karachna Orglaz
0
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Posted - 2013.12.04 11:13:00 -
[436] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote: Should probably read entire post the quote was taken from....... was just 1 of 2 design layouts suggested, both with the goal of getting a focused bonus set, not 4 different bonus sets for different things.
My apologies, sleep-deprived mind skipped over the fact it was a quote from another. I still hold it should not be a heavy-hitter though. |
Dracko Malus
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
18
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Posted - 2013.12.04 11:40:00 -
[437] - Quote
It's probably been said before, but I'm worried about it's application of reps with just 85 scan res.
I take it the normal route for this ship would be to buddy up with a Black Ops crew, but with a prototype cloaking device fit, it gets the scan res of a Carrier. Which.. seems awefully slow if it's intended to land on grid and be helpful.
Also, if you want to keep the idea of the "Covert Ops" I'd only have the following suggestions:
- Remove scan res penalty - Able to use covert portals Optional: - Reduce lock time delay by 50% (Ending up at 15 secs)
Their reduction in Mass should make up for their fuel consumption somewhat. Tess La'Coil's loveslave. |
Iq Cadaen
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
38
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 11:52:00 -
[438] - Quote
Imma have to go with "bleh". How is this supposed to make it attractive for wormholes when everything else does a much better job at all of it's gimmicky roles. Very niche at best and, frankly, disappointing. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
733
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 11:54:00 -
[439] - Quote
Uninspired, unoriginal and bland. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
64
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Posted - 2013.12.04 11:56:00 -
[440] - Quote
Karachna Orglaz wrote:Kenrailae wrote: Should probably read entire post the quote was taken from....... was just 1 of 2 design layouts suggested, both with the goal of getting a focused bonus set, not 4 different bonus sets for different things.
My apologies, sleep-deprived mind skipped over the fact it was a quote from another. I still hold it should not be a heavy-hitter though.
Yes agee. That's why I advocated lowering the dps but keeping the rr capability. It makes the ship unique. The biggest problem i see with making it a pocket-carrier is that carrier cost about the same ISK... so really no point in BS logi. Besides you can't take a BS and force it into being an oversized cruiser or a mini carrier - game mechanics does not promote such abominations...
As for making it a laser boat, I dont agree. There is the Nightmare which is a shield ship, there is a Baal that has lasers but the dps is not its primary role, and now we have Nestor which has laser but they are not a primary weapon. So we have 3 pirate laser platforms of which none is good at using lasers in PvP (Nightmare is good for PvE). What i would like to see is a pirate version of Abaddon (not saying it has to be Nestor). |
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Jake Looann
New Omicron Ordo Oculus
0
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Posted - 2013.12.04 12:09:00 -
[441] - Quote
Why not adding some Range and Tracking bonus for the Nestor? Very few drone boats uses that. In this case, a Domi could easly win thaks to the tracking and range of its drones, so in this statement, it be cheaper to run a domi. If not, add a small damage bonus to those turrets if possible.
This is just my side of the coin really. |
Tepalica
ACME-CORP
32
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 12:13:00 -
[442] - Quote
Interesting ship, and even more interesting ideas how to change it so it can find it's place under the sun in the game - hope this doesn't turn into another Marauder thread...
Thing is, it is very hard to comment on this ship without knowing what exactly are you doing with actual Black Ops ships in terms of balancing (I assume they are next in line for a rework).
I have to notice, you haven't mentioned the ship warp speed anywhere (that became a big deal after Rubicon was released - I assume it's 2AU/s like all other battleships)
This remote repair idea you came up with is a bit confusing - in order to make it comparable to a logistics cruiser, you would have to fit at least 3 large remote repairers and one large energy transfer and fill the ship almost entirely with cap mods, which is more or less a standard triage carrier setup, except this thing can't triage, has no room for a decent tank in that setup, has an absolutely HORRIBLE scan resolution (Oneiros has 456mm scan res and Nestor would require 4 scan res scripted sensor boosters to reach 406mm scan res), has useless remote repairing range, it's over 3 times heavier than a fully fit Guardian that can repair AND give cap to the fleet, and will cost as much as a REAL triage carrier while a fully pimp fitted Guardian costs a fraction of that - so why don't you tell us again, how this ship will be "very interesting" to the wormhole people, because I don't see it...
Someone mentioned spider tanking - I hope they weren't thinking about drone boats doing sleeper sites. As for PvP spider tanking, Dominix does that quite well, and for 1/10th of the price.
The ship is way too slow to be able to travel and operate in both low and null sec, as well as not being immune to bubbles, so the exploration bonuses are wasted on it as it is right now.
Turn your thoughts from this crazy battleship logistics idea and follow the cloaky exploration theme that you already started with SoE ships:
Keep the exploration bonuses
Give it a cloaked velocity bonus (preferably significantly more than what current Black Ops have to make it unique, around 400m/s max velocity while cloaked would be interesting to see), no targeting delay after decloaking, make it more agile kinda like the Machariel is right now, or at least like the Vindicator is and reduce the ship's defenses, especially the amount of hull hit points - these changes would allow the Nestor to hit a bubbled gate camp and have a realistic chance of getting through it in one piece.
Remove the remote repair bonus and do this:
Gallente Battleship Bonuses: 10% drone damage and hitpoints 20% bonus to Armor Maintenance Bot transfer amount per level
I believe this would be an interesting bonus because it would bring more decision making for players in PvP, 5 large armor maintenance drones would roughly repair the same amount of armor per second as would 2 large remote armor repairers and while that may seem overpowered, remember that this is a drone boat, so if it's doing repairs, it's not doing much damage and while these armor repair bots would make the ship less vulnerable to E-war when it comes to repairing others, drones still have their travel time as well as being vulnerable to enemy fire so it's far from fail-proof.
Lastly, I would like Nestor to be a jump capable ship, just like the Black Ops is, same range, being able to fit a Covert Cyno Generator, being able to jump to a normal AND covert cyno but WITHOUT the ability to fit a Covert Jump Bridge Generator so it doesn't tread too much into the Black Ops T2 specialization.
If you want this ship to be a REAL combat capable exploration ship which is able to operate deep in hostile space, this is the way to make it happen! |
Centurax
Eve Engineering Authority Eve Engineering
10
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Posted - 2013.12.04 12:17:00 -
[443] - Quote
how about this:
Amarr Battleship Bonuses: 4% Armor resistances per level
Gallente Battleship Bonuses: 10% drone damage and hitpoints per level
Role bonuses: 200% bonus to Capacitor Transfer, Remote Repair range 50% increased strength for scan probes +10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers 100% reduction in CPU requirements for cloaks
Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Devices.
Ok I still don't get what everyone has against having Battleships with covert ops cloaks, but still seems to strike fear in so many seeing as they will be an expensive loss to some and an impressive kill for others, really don't see the issue. But if you are going to do a WH exploration battleship you may as well do it right it needs a covert ops cloak, and I doubt they will plague the space ways and fleets for a good while given the requirements to get one and the price tag will probably be up around 1.5 to 2bil if you add the covert ops cloak ability to it.
Again if it is an exploration vessel it will need the ability to explore so scan strength and virus strength will be useful, so I guess those roles can stay the same.
If you are going to make it a logistics platform as well give it some flexibility allow the use of shield and hull reps with a range bonus, this will fit in with the SOE as if you can completely fix a ship in space a long way form a station, however this does not mean that you would necessary fit all the reppers to your ship, but it is nice to have more options. Also energy transfers with a range boost given that logistics isn't worth a damn without a good cap transfer (yes I know that you can fit logi that don't require it, but it does seem to work better with the transfer ).
When the info about this ship was announced it seems that it would have a clone bay and a shuttle bay fitted to it any more details on that? A clone bay that works in a WH would be very useful, and if the shuttle bay can take a few frigates would be better
I guess this wont be a popular approach with some but if you are going for a design to work in an area like WH space and whatever else might be coming to space near us soon it would be nice to have some good tools to do the job, and having an exploration battleship that can take care of its self and evade hostile fleets is going to be a good start. The Stratios and Astero are good ships and an excellent start to this design philosophy of the SOE ships have I personally would love to see it continue into this battleship, but looks like those who fear the cloaked ships might win this one. Yes even I find a cloaked ship hiding in a system frustrating but I don't see why that should effect adding cov ops cloaks to anything bigger than a cruiser.
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Rio Bravo
Gold State Sanctuary Pact
17
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Posted - 2013.12.04 12:23:00 -
[444] - Quote
Interesting...If it had jump bridge capability or black ops cyno capability might work. Not in favour of more invisible ships. Think its for ghost sites, not your regular relic or data.
I concede it doesn't make sense to roam in one, especially in hostile territory. Cyno capability might serve its purpose well, better than a covops battleship, would be way too OP. No battleship is supposed to run alone really. A BS without support is well...BS. GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥ -á- Clint Eastwood, misquote. |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
329
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Posted - 2013.12.04 12:23:00 -
[445] - Quote
Really no to a fully covert battleship |
Athena Maldoran
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2464
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Posted - 2013.12.04 12:30:00 -
[446] - Quote
I really wanted a covert ops bs with rr capabilities.. *sniffle*
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
628
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Posted - 2013.12.04 12:35:00 -
[447] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:Onictus wrote:Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:also, it should have a 7H 5M 7L or 7H 6M 7L or 7H 5M 8L layout. The 7/6//6 could be cool, but the bonues need to be untangled. Is it a repper, a tanker or a damage dealer. The scanning bonus needs to go, who the helll is going to probe...welll anything...with a battleship. lots of people, just cause you wont or others may have alts dual boxed for scanning
I have more than one alt for scanning.
So say you are using your snappy multi-billion isk battleship to scan. IF you spuad/wing/fleet warp with your gang is ONLY going to go as fast as the battelship 2AU with crap accelleration
.....this is why we use cov-ops to scann for frigate gangs.
It would defeat the purpose entire to to ensure that your gang needs a half a minute to get across a system because a gang can only warp as fast as its slowest ship. |
Scorpionstrike
Oh Bugga League 0f Grumpy 0ld Farts
6
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Posted - 2013.12.04 12:38:00 -
[448] - Quote
Actully i have an idea with the cloaking aspect of this ship, either it could stay cloaked for a longer time after jumping through a gate or maybe it might not show up on the D-scan. just throwing it out there, of course they would still see you in local etc.. |
Athena Maldoran
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2464
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 12:42:00 -
[449] - Quote
Scorpionstrike wrote:Actully i have an idea with the cloaking aspect of this ship, either it could stay cloaked for a longer time after jumping through a gate or maybe it might not show up on the D-scan. just throwing it out there, of course they would still see you in local etc..
As long as it have to travel gates and is not immune to bubbles, its going to be less interesting to get this ship considering the price and what you can use it for. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
8951
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Posted - 2013.12.04 12:42:00 -
[450] - Quote
I like this ship. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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