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Samael Pserad
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
1. CCP's bigotry against religion. I'm an atheist, but a society as advanced technologically as Amarr would recognize that humans are an incredibly inefficient energy investment to perform work when technology and energy sources far beyond the first world are available. A human being puts out about 80 watts sustained power for external at the investment of about 1200 Watts for the sustaining of life. That's an efficiency of less than 10%. Because there's no reasonable reason to believe advanced technological societies would ever consider slavery, there's no reason to believe that the attribution of slavery to the one theocracy in the game is anything other than a childish atheist's CCCP straw man.
2. No matter what I do, my character will always be 10 years behind every other character. This is an absolute fail in game design. What CCP should have done is get some differential equations together and come up with a training speed multiplier that is applied to later started characters allowing them to catch up to older characters while still lagging behind somewhat, but not as much as they always will. This way, players who join the game late can actually have some legitimate hope of being able to contend with ten year old characters at some point in the future. Most older players would dislike that, I'm sure, but it would be far more reasonable then the current system which doesn't allow for simultaneous avatar customization and player advancement. Sure, you can work your way up to the cashflow to buy a new character, but that's a somewhat insane endeavor. The game, as it is, has nearly nothing to do with skill or experience, and comes down to the fact that someone else just has an older character than you and you have to wait another 2 years to maybe be able to reasonably contend with them.
3. Unfriendly players. CCP called it the "Eve Gate" (Eve, through whom all evil, mythologically, entered the world) because I'm sure they anticipated the kind of douchey people that would take over the game. It'd be fun if some of the major alliances were interested in negotiation or developing rules for interaction in territory they control or something. For example, in any realistic political entity, nearly no government is going to just shoot people on site for no reason whatsoever - that, of course, is not Eve. There's no contacting the pilot to arrange terms for safe passage or enforcement of rules by major null and low-sec alliances - it's just shoot whatever is neutral because you can. It's lame and takes out the factor of politics/economics/security enforcement etc. that is supposed to be present in space trading games. I've met about three-five people in five months of playing who were actually friendly and one of them I gave my billions of space stuff to.
4. This game isn't fun for new players - every major alliance knows that new characters aren't particularly useful to them and there's no reason to really go out of their way to protect them from pirate types. There doesn't seem to be any major alliances with a kind of ethos that wants to play the game in some "honorable" fashion. Instead, it feels like a bunch of street gangs going at one another rather than empires who behave with decorum, ideology, and philosophy.
5. Seriously, CCP, apply a differential modifier to the training time of later toons - you're creating a caste system for your player base - if there's no hope of ever being as good at the guy who's been playing for the last five or ten years - there's really no sense in playing because you're not going to be able to get back at him later no matter what because you'll always be five or ten years behind him. |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
3004
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
First and can I have your stuff? Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on. |
Mizhir
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
47186
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:First and can I have your stuff?
Can I have your stuff? One Man Crew - The official Bringing Solo Back contest
SCL5 Winner |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
3006
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:Alpheias wrote:First and can I have your stuff? Can I have your stuff?
Give me back my stuff and we can talk. Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on. |
Arresy Barres
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Oh goddammit, you're one nasty drama *****, this is the second thread you announce your leave from EVE; are you really that desperate for attention? Go out or something, we don't really need you, we don't really care about you and we won't really miss you. Some people will bite the thread and there will be a discussion, though shallow and pointless, but it will make you feel important, which you are not, but whatever, you didn't get this in the first thread, you won't get it at all.
Your reasons are rather funny, though. Bigotry against religion? Jesus Christ, it's a goddamn game, I doubt CCP tried to push a point across the board with Amarr religion and lore and even if they did, legitimately who the hell gives a ****? The religion part gives good handles to roleplay around to those interested in it.
Stop whining about the leveling, you can't be good at everything like the 10 year old players are, but you can master out your core skills and then specialize quite well in two or three niche's in just a couple months; you don't need V's for that, IV's enough.
Unfriendly players? Did you gain access to the internet 5 months ago? Is this your first online game ever? Ever leave your apartments? You'll find most strangers don't give a damn about you and rightfully so, why would they? If popping you means more resources for me and my friendly peers, there's a solid point to pop you. Oh, and it's fun. Being friendly to you? So we can become friends? And team up in space? And spend time on comms? Not going to happen, you with your drama whoring, I don't think much people would like to hang around with you in EVE. I don't like you, let's be honest here, so I'm losing nothing.
Game ain't fun for new players? Yeah, ain't fun for you because you cling to your sad stuff while I'm having a blast here. I'm just about a month old, so are some of my mates and we're all having great fun.
Stop clutching at straws and leave already. This obviously isn't a game for you, lets be real, nothing's changing because of this pitiful thread. You tried to get a point across, I didn't buy it, most people won't.
With that being said, can I have your stuff? |
Samael Pserad
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:First and can I have your stuff?
If you were capable of reading, I already addressed the fact that several billion in ISK has been turned over to someone. |
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
4530
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
every new player can serve a purpose.
namely, pay me taxes. |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
3010
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote:Alpheias wrote:First and can I have your stuff? If you were capable of reading, I already addressed the fact that several billion in ISK has been turned over to someone.
If you are not a troll, then you are special... shortbus-type special. Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on. |
Arresy Barres
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:Samael Pserad wrote:Alpheias wrote:First and can I have your stuff? If you were capable of reading, I already addressed the fact that several billion in ISK has been turned over to someone. If you are not a troll, then you are special... shortbus-type special. I know, right? His other thread started exactly the same way. It's pretty hillarious. This guy has absolutely no idea. |
Random McNally
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
41872
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
No amount of deodorant can cover this troll smell. Started on the second line. I am an atheist, but he plays Amarr.
Crawl back to GD.
Oh,and Can I haz ur stuffs? Red Fed Grunt.-á Co-Host of the High Drag Podcast. http://highdrag.wordpress.com/ Check out the space music at http://minddivided.com |
|
Samael Pserad
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Arresy Barres wrote:Oh goddammit, you're one nasty drama *****, this is the second thread you announce your leave from EVE; are you really that desperate for attention? Go out or something, we don't really need you, we don't really care about you and we won't really miss you. Some people will bite the thread and there will be a discussion, though shallow and pointless, but it will make you feel important, which you are not, but whatever, you didn't get this in the first thread, you won't get it at all.
Your reasons are rather funny, though. Bigotry against religion? Jesus Christ, it's a goddamn game, I doubt CCP tried to push a point across the board with Amarr religion and lore and even if they did, legitimately who the hell gives a ****? The religion part gives good handles to roleplay around to those interested in it.
Stop whining about the leveling, you can't be good at everything like the 10 year old players are, but you can master out your core skills and then specialize quite well in two or three niche's in just a couple months; you don't need V's for that, IV's enough.
Unfriendly players? Did you gain access to the internet 5 months ago? Is this your first online game ever? Ever leave your apartments? You'll find most strangers don't give a damn about you and rightfully so, why would they? If popping you means more resources for me and my friendly peers, there's a solid point to pop you. Oh, and it's fun. Being friendly to you? So we can become friends? And team up in space? And spend time on comms? Not going to happen, you with your drama whoring, I don't think much people would like to hang around with you in EVE. I don't like you, let's be honest here, so I'm losing nothing.
Game ain't fun for new players? Yeah, ain't fun for you because you cling to your sad stuff while I'm having a blast here. I'm just about a month old, so are some of my mates and we're all having great fun.
Stop clutching at straws and leave already. This obviously isn't a game for you, lets be real, nothing's changing because of this pitiful thread. You tried to get a point across, I didn't buy it, most people won't.
With that being said, can I have your stuff?
Well, most companies care about losing customers. Obviously other customers don't care, and especially in this game, but your thread is a magnificent illustration why few people want to play Eve but other MMO's manage to gather and keep millions of players playing daily while Eve tops out at about 40k.
There's a lot of mean people in the world, and decent people go out of their way to avoid them. |
Samael Pserad
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Random McNally wrote:No amount of deodorant can cover this troll smell. Started on the second line. I am an atheist, but he plays Amarr.
Crawl back to GD.
Oh,and Can I haz ur stuffs?
What the hell is GD? Yes, I play Amarr because corporatacracy is shallow, oppressive and childish; excessive libertarianism produces indifference to human suffering; and tribal caste systems are unappealing.
Like I said, even CCP can't avoid the maturity of mythology by creating a metanarrative with the premise that human beings are inherently evil and then proving it by giving them no rules.
"Now the serpent was more crafty than any other wild animal that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, GÇ£Did God say, GÇÿYou shall not eat from any tree in the gardenGÇÖ?GÇ¥ 2 The woman said to the serpent, GÇ£We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden; 3 but God said, GÇÿYou shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, nor shall you touch it, or you shall die.GÇÖGÇ¥ 4 But the serpent said to the woman, GÇ£You will not die; 5 for God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God,[a] knowing good and evil.GÇ¥ 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made loincloths for themselves.
8 They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, and said to him, GÇ£Where are you?GÇ¥ 10 He said, GÇ£I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.GÇ¥ 11 He said, GÇ£Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?GÇ¥ 12 The man said, GÇ£The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate.GÇ¥ 13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, GÇ£What is this that you have done?GÇ¥ The woman said, GÇ£The serpent tricked me, and I ate.GÇ¥ 14 The Lord God said to the serpent,
GÇ£Because you have done this, cursed are you among all animals and among all wild creatures; upon your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. 15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will strike your head, and you will strike his heel.GÇ¥
16 To the woman he said,
GÇ£I will greatly increase your pangs in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.GÇ¥
17 And to the man[b] he said,
GÇ£Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten of the tree about which I commanded you, GÇÿYou shall not eat of it,GÇÖ cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life; 18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; you are dust, and to dust you shall return.GÇ¥"
Right? |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
3012
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote:Random McNally wrote:No amount of deodorant can cover this troll smell. Started on the second line. I am an atheist, but he plays Amarr.
Crawl back to GD.
Oh,and Can I haz ur stuffs? What the hell is GD? Yes, I play Amarr because corporatacracy is shallow, oppressive and childish; excessive libertarianism produces indifference to human suffering; and tribal caste systems are unappealing. Like I said, even CCP can't avoid the maturity of mythology by creating a metanarrative with the premise that human beings are inherently evil and then proving it by giving them no rules.
So out of the four available races, you pick the one that makes you stand out the most as a hypocrite? Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on. |
Marie Hartinez
Aries Munitions and Defense Market and Contract PVP
442
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
**walks in expecting a whine thread of whininess, people asking for stuffz, and others pointing out why OP is a loony**
**leaves satisfied**
IB4 the downward spinal of name calling, more whininess, drama, a possible reference to Adolf ******, more asking for stuffz, and the lock. Surrender is still your slightly less painful option. |
Samael Pserad
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:Samael Pserad wrote:Random McNally wrote:No amount of deodorant can cover this troll smell. Started on the second line. I am an atheist, but he plays Amarr.
Crawl back to GD.
Oh,and Can I haz ur stuffs? What the hell is GD? Yes, I play Amarr because corporatacracy is shallow, oppressive and childish; excessive libertarianism produces indifference to human suffering; and tribal caste systems are unappealing. Like I said, even CCP can't avoid the maturity of mythology by creating a metanarrative with the premise that human beings are inherently evil and then proving it by giving them no rules. So out of the four available races, you pick the one that makes you stand out the most as a hypocrite?
I didn't invent CCP's false tetrachotomy. Atheists don't have one specific ideology - they simply deny the existence of a deity. I evaluated the four presented races and the Amarr was the only thing that remotely resembled anything I believe in. The only people I've met in life who've had any regard for me as a human being were religious people, Muslim or Christian, so I picked Amarr. Only a real moron would believe that religion is responsible for pre-industrialist slavery and no culture that is capable of inventing nanites would practice slavery because, as I stated earlier, it's extremely economically inefficient with contemporary technology not to mention the kind of technology that exists in this sci-fi universe. CCP is just catering to people too dumb to realize that. |
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
4530
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
you're pretty peeved about the slavery thing, huh?
I guess that saying "it's just a video game" won't help in this situation, hmm? |
Samael Pserad
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:you're pretty peeved about the slavery thing, huh?
I guess that saying "it's just a video game" won't help in this situation, hmm?
Not so much that so much as I am forced to chose among four races which I hate and have little to no redeeming qualities and the most appealing to me happens to be the one that most players are against because CCP decided to play on the pop culture myth that religion inherently causes slavery. Of course it's just a game - but there's plenty of people who will make your game experience extra miserable for choosing Amarr. Additionally, the subtext is, quite simply, that Abrahamic monotheism is to blame for slavery which simply doesn't hold water historically. It's a popular atheistic straw-man argument based on an appeal to consequences fallacy arguing against religion.
Like all hate groups - it attributes to a large group of people responsibility for some evil.
But, yes, I studied religion in college, among other things, and I think it's a tremendously stupid and childish argument to attribute to religion, rather than the human capacity for evil and economic reality, the existence of slavery.
I don't patronize TV shows that portray blacks as stupid and/or bafoonish and/or criminal. I don't patronize film or movies that portray gays as serial killers and/or child molesters. I don't patronize video games that portray women as stupid, weak and childish. Why should I make an exception for CCP's decision to portray monotheistic religion as a sock-puppet of medieval Europe? |
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
1968
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
I kind of agree against the backstory's bias against religion. The only religious group in the game are set up to be bigoted slaver hypocrites.
But as for not being about to catch up-- so what? You do what you can do with your char's current level of skills. Chances are, if your char doesn't have the skills for it, you personally don't have knowledge/game experience to do well at it either. Or the isk to risk in flying that ship. |
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
1968
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
I kind of agree against the backstory's bias against religion. The Amarr slavers are set up to be bigoted religious hypocrites.
But as for not being about to catch up-- so what? You do what you can do with your char's current level of skills. Chances are, if your char doesn't have the skills for it, you personally don't have knowledge/game experience to do well at it either. Or the isk to risk in flying that ship. |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
798
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
First time I've ever heard a reason for leaving based on lore. What should we sue every other author he includes slavery as part of their universe's history? Other than that it's same old same old, can i haz your stuff? no for these and these reasons kind of thread.
wumbo |
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Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1058
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 23:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
A multi billion dollar quitter or troll.
The jury is out apparently, but I roll with the Troll! |
Echo Echoplex
98
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 23:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Re: 1. Quote:CCP's bigotry against religion. I'm an atheist, but a society as advanced technologically as Amarr would recognize that humans are an incredibly inefficient energy investment to perform work when technology and energy sources far beyond the first world are available.
You wanted realism, you got realism, at least where that's concerned. Man's reasons for a slaving mentality have to do with ego and power, and will always negate at certain points the use of automation for that reason, whether it's 1920 or 2520.
Re: 2. Quote:No matter what I do, my character will always be 10 years behind every other character. This is an absolute fail in game design.
Why should your skill level ever match that of someone with 10 years under his/her belt? If your skill level was matched by every newb within weeks of their training I imagine you'd feel cheated, and if not, you should. In real life a 20 year old man can never catch up in experience to a 50 year old man, but you can surpass him in skills. In Eve that's simply reversed because it makes sense. Here, you'll never surpass him in skills but you can in experience.
Untutored courage is useless in the face of educated bullets. Gen. George S. Patton |
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
4532
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 01:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote:Eurydia Vespasian wrote:you're pretty peeved about the slavery thing, huh?
I guess that saying "it's just a video game" won't help in this situation, hmm? Like all hate groups - it attributes to a large group of people responsibility for some evil. But, yes, I studied religion in college, among other things, and I think it's a tremendously stupid and childish argument to attribute to religion, rather than the human capacity for evil and economic reality, the existence of slavery. I don't patronize TV shows that portray blacks as stupid and/or bafoonish and/or criminal. I don't patronize film or movies that portray gays as serial killers and/or child molesters. I don't patronize video games that portray women as stupid, weak and childish. Why should I make an exception for CCP's decision to portray monotheistic religion as a sock-puppet of medieval Europe?
would you not agree that religion has, at least, played a part over history in condoning and/or downright used as justification for the enslavement of others? the bible, for just one example, sets a clear precedent in the old testament. even going so far as to lay out rules for which populations are acceptable and which are not. maybe this is the thread ccp was going for when constructing the basis for amarrian culture. |
Oxylan
QRDELESH - Mutual Admiration Society
82
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 03:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Hi op, you are not enough HARDCORE like other EvE players, we love EvE like it is, most of us are close to fanatics than ordinary players even EvE is still far away from perfect, but this game still evole and we love it.
If it bleed we can kill it. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
80659
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 14:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote: Not so much that so much as I am forced to chose among four races which I hate and have little to no redeeming qualities and the most appealing to me happens to be the one that most players are against because CCP decided to play on the pop culture myth that religion inherently causes slavery.
It certainly did in America.
All justifications for slavery in the South were directly from the Bible (in their minds). America built itself using this "social mechanic".
And you are upset about it in a fictive setting ? Unreal. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1061
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 15:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
I find it ironic that a trol.. I mean player who claims to be athiest and anti-slavery would chose the Religious Slaving zealot class to play |
Graygor
1kB Realty 1kB Galactic
89633
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 15:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Slade Trillgon wrote:I find it ironic that a trol.. I mean player who claims to be athiest and anti-slavery would chose the Religious Slaving zealot class to play
Attraction to the thing you hate most? Like this little gem from today on the BBC. "I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." --áKenneth O'Hara
"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commisar Kate |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1061
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 15:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
Graygor wrote:Slade Trillgon wrote:I find it ironic that a trol.. I mean player who claims to be athiest and anti-slavery would chose the Religious Slaving zealot class to play Attraction to the thing you hate most? Like this little gem from today on the BBC.
I find it utterly hilarious how many racist neo-**** organizations are ultimately brought to their knees because of the completely and total hypocrisy of their 'charismatic and unfailing leaders' |
Samael Pserad
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 16:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
Echo Echoplex wrote:Re: 1. Quote:CCP's bigotry against religion. I'm an atheist, but a society as advanced technologically as Amarr would recognize that humans are an incredibly inefficient energy investment to perform work when technology and energy sources far beyond the first world are available. You wanted realism, you got realism, at least where that's concerned. Man's reasons for a slaving mentality have to do with ego and power, and will always negate at certain points the use of automation for that reason, whether it's 1920 or 2520. Re: 2. Quote:No matter what I do, my character will always be 10 years behind every other character. This is an absolute fail in game design.
Why should your skill level ever match that of someone with 10 years under his/her belt? If your skill level was matched by every newb within weeks of their training I imagine you'd feel cheated, and if not, you should. In real life a 20 year old man can never catch up in experience to a 50 year old man, but you can surpass him in skills. In Eve that's simply reversed because it makes sense. Here, you'll never surpass him in skills but you can in experience.
Re: 1
No, that's not realistic. Like I said, it's like saying the Caldari plow fields with Oxen. I might believe that the Amarr decided a Minmatar planet was an "apostate planet" and wiped out the entire population or something, but slavery simply isn't economically beneficial in advanced technological societies. It's far more expensive to feed a human than provide energy to a machine. Slavery is rarely about power and usually about the fact that humans were the only source of skilled labor. Even the deep south in the antebellum period used Cotton gins and didn't make slaves separate cotton by hand because, well, the machine is far more effective and efficient. Ego and power help rationalize slavery, but its underlying reasons are economic because if it weren't in some way economically efficient, it would constitute a waste of a civilizations' resources. In a technologically advanced society such as "New Eden" - it's completely obsolete. Regardless, it's not that I hate all slavery lore, it's that it's very clear that they are blaming Abrahamic monotheism specifically for slavery - which not only negates its ubiquitous existence in primitive civilizations, but constitutes a severe bigoted attitude on the side of the creators. Nearly every Amarr ship is named after something Biblical or from Christianity, the object of their criticism is clear. I cannot believe they included a blood raider mission where they make fun of the Eucharist by having one of the Blood Raiders insist they "don't actually eat people, they eat a protein wafer representative of people."
Like I said, I have limits to how many offensive stereotypes you can include in a game before I get upset. I don't care if you're going after Jews, Blacks, Christians, atheists, gays, Mexicans - whatever. The Amarr lore is highly offensive to people with a knowledge of monotheistic religion.
Re: 2
Yep, that's why people who state the game is "a challenge" is like saying playing a slot machine is a "challenge." It's a sucker's bet to play a game where the odds will always be against you and there is no plateau wherein you are equal with the other players. Hence, goodbye.
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Alpheias
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
3030
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 16:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote: Hence, goodbye.
About time, I was running out of popcorn. Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on. |
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
80715
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 16:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote: The Amarr lore is highly offensive to people with a knowledge of monotheistic religion.
No. I have an in-depth knowledge of monotheistic religions. I find them all offensive.
I'm pretty much "anti-gun ownership" (but not loudly or vocally), but thats not gonna stop me from playing FPS's.
Either you are taking the game way too seriously, or you are just doing a really terrible job of trolling. Not really sure. Bad, flawed arguments make dialog next to impossible anyway, so good riddance. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Pepper Solette
University of Caille Gallente Federation
199
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
It's ok Samael, i got your back bro.
http://tinypic.com/r/dgktpi/5 |
Samael Pserad
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Samael Pserad wrote: The Amarr lore is highly offensive to people with a knowledge of monotheistic religion.
No. I have an in-depth knowledge of monotheistic religions. I find them all offensive. I'm pretty much "anti-gun ownership" (but not loudly or vocally), but thats not gonna stop me from playing FPS's. Either you are taking the game way too seriously, or you are just doing a really terrible job of trolling. Not really sure. Bad, flawed arguments make dialog next to impossible anyway, so good riddance.
I draw the line when the developers of a game imply that Catholics are cannibals because of the Eucharist like that one mission where a blood raider tells you "We don't actually eat people, we eat a wafer symbolic of people" or something along those lines. It's too bad CCP won't go after Islam with such vitriol because they know what would happen. |
Samael Pserad
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
Slade Trillgon wrote:I find it ironic that a trol.. I mean player who claims to be athiest and anti-slavery would chose the Religious Slaving zealot class to play
The other races seemed more evil. |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1063
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote:Slade Trillgon wrote:I find it ironic that a trol.. I mean player who claims to be athiest and anti-slavery would chose the Religious Slaving zealot class to play The other races seemed more evil.
The slaves seemed more evil then the en-slavers.
I said it before.
Troll. |
Dangirdas Bachir
Direct Support Initiative
750
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:41:00 -
[36] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote:1. CCP's bigotry against religion. I'm an atheist, but a society as advanced technologically as Amarr would recognize that humans are an incredibly inefficient energy investment to perform work when technology and energy sources far beyond the first world are available. A human being puts out about 80 watts sustained power for external at the investment of about 1200 Watts for the sustaining of life. That's an efficiency of less than 10%. Because there's no reasonable reason to believe advanced technological societies would ever consider slavery, there's no reason to believe that the attribution of slavery to the one theocracy in the game is anything other than a childish atheist's CCCP straw man. CCP's response: "Yes, the Amarr were capable of harnessing energy to bend space-time for faster than light travel, but they really needed Minmatar slaves to thresh wheat by hand because religion, obviously." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophic_levelSaying a futuristic society with the alleged technological capabilities of the societies in game would engage in human slavery is as stupid as saying the Caldari plow their fields with oxen. Obviously, this wouldn't happen because, well, obviously, oxen are inefficient, slow, and expensive compared to the technological capacity of the society. 2. No matter what I do, my character will always be 10 years behind every other character. This is an absolute fail in game design. What CCP should have done is get some differential equations together and come up with a training speed multiplier that is applied to later started characters allowing them to catch up to older characters while still lagging behind somewhat, but not as much as they always will. This way, players who join the game late can actually have some legitimate hope of being able to contend with ten year old characters at some point in the future. Most older players would dislike that, I'm sure, but it would be far more reasonable then the current system which doesn't allow for simultaneous avatar customization and player advancement. Sure, you can work your way up to the cashflow to buy a new character, but that's a somewhat insane endeavor. The game, as it is, has nearly nothing to do with skill or experience, and comes down to the fact that someone else just has an older character than you and you have to wait another 2 years to maybe be able to reasonably contend with them. 3. Unfriendly players. CCP called it the "Eve Gate" (Eve, through whom all evil, mythologically, entered the world) because I'm sure they anticipated the kind of douchey people that would take over the game. It'd be fun if some of the major alliances were interested in negotiation or developing rules for interaction in territory they control or something. For example, in any realistic political entity, nearly no government is going to just shoot people on site for no reason whatsoever - that, of course, is not Eve. There's no contacting the pilot to arrange terms for safe passage or enforcement of rules by major null and low-sec alliances - it's just shoot whatever is neutral because you can. It's lame and takes out the factor of politics/economics/security enforcement etc. that is supposed to be present in space trading games. I've met about three-five people in five months of playing who were actually friendly and one of them I gave my billions of space stuff to. 4. This game isn't fun for new players - every major alliance knows that new characters aren't particularly useful to them and there's no reason to really go out of their way to protect them from pirate types. There doesn't seem to be any major alliances with a kind of ethos that wants to play the game in some "honorable" fashion. Instead, it feels like a bunch of street gangs going at one another rather than empires who behave with decorum, ideology, and philosophy. 5. Seriously, CCP, apply a differential modifier to the training time of later toons - you're creating a caste system for your player base - if there's no hope of ever being as good at the guy who's been playing for the last five or ten years - there's really no sense in playing because you're not going to be able to get back at him later no matter what because you'll always be five or ten years behind him. 1. This is a game. Which means that everything is possible.
2. Yes, this just makes it more realistic. You don't come to a 10+ year physics teacher and expect that you can more than him when you have only been studying the same subject 3 years.
3. This is sandbox, which means you will find douchebags, this is what is so great about this game. That douchebags can exist. Most games just ban them, which is not realistic. Besides i have been playing the for a month right now and i have mostly only met nice and friendly people. Maybe you just suck at socializing.
4. I'm having quite a lot of fun thus being a new player.
5. Yes you can, you just have to counter play. EVE EVE STARGALACTIC CITY B I T C H |
Samoth Egnoled
28776
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
So you wanna live in paradise..? Ego Sum Mortem Incarnatum - I Am Death Incarnate |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
80756
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote: I draw the line when the developers of a game imply that Catholics are cannibals because of the Eucharist like that one mission where a blood raider tells you "We don't actually eat people, we eat a wafer symbolic of people" or something along those lines. It's too bad CCP won't go after Islam with such vitriol because they know what would happen.
Magic Mushrooms are bad for you, m'kay ? "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Samael Pserad
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:50:00 -
[39] - Quote
Dangirdas Bachir wrote: 1. This is a game. Which means that everything is possible. 2. Yes, this just makes it more realistic. You don't come to a 10+ year physics teacher and expect that you can more than him when you have only been studying the same subject 3 years. 3. This is sandbox, which means you will find douchebags, this is what is so great about this game. That douchebags can exist. Most games just ban them, which is not realistic. Besides i have been playing the for a month right now and i have mostly only met nice and friendly people. Maybe you just suck at socializing. 4. I'm having quite a lot of fun thus being a new player. 5. Yes you can, you just have to counter play.
1. But the implication CCP is making is clear: religion, particularly Christianity = slavery. Therefore, Martin Luther King Jr. was an advocate of slavery, as was Harriet Beecher Stowe or Levi Coffin...
2. No, it just makes it unappealing to play because there's no plateau which means that your character will always be inferior to a vast majority of other players. People play games because they like mobility - there's no mobility with a system that gives extreme advantages to people who have played for ten years and no real hope for newer players to catch up.
3. Yep, I suppose I just suck at socializing. The massive amount of hostile comments on the message boards is clearly indicative of the amount of douchebags in game and the fact that a large portion of new players just hang out in high sec because they don't really have a choice to go anywhere else because it's oh so fun PvP to gank T1 frigates in your squad of T2 cruisers or whatever. Realistic would be that there were some alliances with codes of honor or something along those lines. I.E. - you're free to roam their null space until you commit hostile acts or something. As it is, just shooting anything neutral that gets near you is just lame.
4. I'm not.
5. I don't know what you mean. I sat there and looked at how long it would take to be particularly effective in combat and I thought: "do I really want to spend the next year just running data and combat sites or mining while dodging everything and never getting the satisfaction of payback?" And, I arrived at the conclusion, no, I really don't.
|
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
80756
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
"I've been to Paradise....but I've never been to me !" "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
|
Samael Pserad
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 18:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
Like I said: capitalists are childish, superficial bigots. His songs are something you'd expect to be popular in Caldari or Gallente cultures - which is why I wouldn't choose those.
Christianity and Judaism, however, don't think that the poor are irrelevant and worthless, like the Caldari and Gallente would think, since you brought up Tim Minchen's song about sodomy and suicide bombing - and because CCP like appropriating Jewish symbolism for their purposes:
"This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy." - - Ezekiel 16:49 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14753
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 18:53:00 -
[42] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote: Christianity and Judaism, however, don't think that the poor are irrelevant and worthless
Tell that to the millions living in abject poverty in so called christian countries while the higher echelons of the church do a Scrooge Mcduck in the oodles of filthy lucre they've extorted and accumulated over the centuries. Religion is about power and money, it's basically a corporation wrapped up in mumbojumbo and fantasy. It's also been the cause of pretty much every major war since before the middle ages.
With reference to machines vs salves for industrial use, machines have a greater initial purchase value than a slave, they also require skilled operators, and maintenance when they break. Slaves on the other hand are pretty much disposable, you work them until they drop, on a subsistence diet if they're lucky and you want them to breed, then you put them out of its misery and enslave another. A prime example of the economics of slavery occurred during the 20th Century, both Japan and Germany used human beings as slaves during WWII, primarily because they were of a different colour, nationality or religion. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
|
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
498
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 19:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
Most subtle beginning to a reigious troll I've ever seen. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
4532
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 19:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
I guess my point got glossed over and ignored by the OP. must have made too much sense. =) |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1063
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 19:50:00 -
[45] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Magic Mushrooms are bad for you, m'kay ?
They are not that bad for you
|
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1063
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 19:52:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I'll think you'll find religion is very much a taboo subject on most forums because of the heated arguments it causes, as such I'm surprised nobody has brought this thread to the attention of the ISDs.
Typically, in the past, we have been able to have very long discussions about politics and religion in OOPE, the inevitably get locked, but they have been known to last into 10+ pages with little angst. |
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
4532
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 20:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
We are simply more civilized and refined than those reactionary General Discussion toads. |
Tollen Gallen
Xionworld
3785
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 21:17:00 -
[48] - Quote
I like Cheese. Zimmy Zeta -I f*cking love martinis.the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14754
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 21:43:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tollen Gallen wrote:I like Cheese. Soft or hard cheeses? Personally I prefer a nice bit of Mature Cheddar, none of that stuff with the blue bits in. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
|
Erica Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration
1566
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 22:15:00 -
[50] - Quote
What the? Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) CEO Nighthawk Exploration | Just an innocent explorer passing through-á pâä OOPE Pinup Calender applications |
|
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
764
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 05:33:00 -
[51] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:We are simply more civilized and refined than those reactionary General Discussion toads.
Don't worry. I started to pick up threads on this section too. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. Captain Tardbar: The official grumpy cat of General Discussion. |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1064
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 12:24:00 -
[52] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Eurydia Vespasian wrote:We are simply more civilized and refined than those reactionary General Discussion toads. Don't worry. I started to pick up threads on this section too.
There goes the last bastion of sanity in this dark, cold and harsh Universe
|
Tweek Etimua
Aideron Robotics
15
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 23:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
As a religious person I'd like to say that I don't think that CCP meant that all religions cause problems or do stupid things (although some have, can and do). They meant that the Amar's does.
Secondly Posting why your leaving is just asking for trolls. Eve is harsh...so are it's forums. I wouldn't expect any thing other than troll posts and mocking words. |
Marie Hartinez
Aries Munitions and Defense Market and Contract PVP
444
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 07:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
I don't know about others, but I never considered the Amarr as "Christan".
Since when does monotheistic mean "Christan"?. Just means the believe in one god, or the oneness of a god.
The Amarr do not use slave labor because it is cheap or efficient. They use slavery as a lesson or learning tool to bring people back into the fold of their faith.
If the OP has his panties in such a bunch over lore about a fictions race in a game, then his leaving will only better this game.
Great, now I feel all dirty for feeding a troll. Must be the alcohol in me doing all the talking. Surrender is still your slightly less painful option. |
Reiisha
Evolution
441
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 13:56:00 -
[55] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote:2. No matter what I do, my character will always be 10 years behind every other character. This is an absolute fail in game design. What CCP should have done is get some differential equations together and come up with a training speed multiplier that is applied to later started characters allowing them to catch up to older characters while still lagging behind somewhat, but not as much as they always will. This way, players who join the game late can actually have some legitimate hope of being able to contend with ten year old characters at some point in the future. Most older players would dislike that, I'm sure, but it would be far more reasonable then the current system which doesn't allow for simultaneous avatar customization and player advancement. Sure, you can work your way up to the cashflow to buy a new character, but that's a somewhat insane endeavor. The game, as it is, has nearly nothing to do with skill or experience, and comes down to the fact that someone else just has an older character than you and you have to wait another 2 years to maybe be able to reasonably contend with them.
4. This game isn't fun for new players - every major alliance knows that new characters aren't particularly useful to them and there's no reason to really go out of their way to protect them from pirate types. There doesn't seem to be any major alliances with a kind of ethos that wants to play the game in some "honorable" fashion. Instead, it feels like a bunch of street gangs going at one another rather than empires who behave with decorum, ideology, and philosophy.
5. Seriously, CCP, apply a differential modifier to the training time of later toons - you're creating a caste system for your player base - if there's no hope of ever being as good at the guy who's been playing for the last five or ten years - there's really no sense in playing because you're not going to be able to get back at him later no matter what because you'll always be five or ten years behind him.
So because you don't understand what the game is about you want to change it?
That's like complaining about the complexity of chess and demanding the rules be changed so it's more like checkers.
New players are perfectly capable of contributing if they're willing to a) lean and b) specialize. Veterans have literally no real advantage other than being able to use more stuff. There really is no point in 'catching up' unless you only care about SP, which are, on their own, completely useless.
I've never heard of a 50m sp character with 45m sp in science somehow being better than a 15m sp character with all 15m in combat skills. That's not even counting actual playing experience.
Samael Pserad wrote:Not so much that so much as I am forced to chose among four races which I hate and have little to no redeeming qualities
You should really look up the word 'generalization'. From the overall posts you're making it's probably a term you're not familiar with.
Of course, ironically i'm reinforcing the negative stereotype you seem to have formed about EVE players, though i don't think either of us will care about that.
Your other points are, by any means, matters of luck, taste and persistence.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all... |
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
53
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 19:49:00 -
[56] - Quote
lol
*throws out some insulting comments about OP being a "waa waa"*
*mocks OP harshly*
Billions... five months? You must have spent a lot of RL money on Plexes or something.
Note: EvE is not about being able to beat up everyone in the entire galaxy. As in real life there is always going to be someone bigger and meaner than you. The skill system in EvE is generally realistic, and it is far superior to stupid grinding.
I can have just as much fun with a one day old noob character as a 10 year old character. It is all about choices and perspective. One time I made 2-300 million ISK with a week old character while sitting in station in my shuttle. No I won't tell you how. haha :)
Haz your stuff? Daniel Zehn Keeper of Evil Frosty |
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
53
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 19:52:00 -
[57] - Quote
I'm glad EvE isn't a politically correct love nest for tolerant hippies who love one another with sunshine and rainbows. Daniel Zehn Keeper of Evil Frosty |
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
53
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 19:52:00 -
[58] - Quote
Had a thought but forgot. Daniel Zehn Keeper of Evil Frosty |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3762
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 03:24:00 -
[59] - Quote
I'll address the skillpoints and "always being behind" whine because I have addressed this concern in the past and have a standard response for it.
The skill and ship class system is ingeniously designed such that newbies CAN compete while providing veteran players with perks that give an edge here and there... but nothing so brokenly overpowered that a newbie has no chance.
- All skills cap at level 5. No matter how many years you have played the game, you cannot exceed that limit. And lower level skills (ex. [Racial] Frigate) are very quick to train relative to more advanced skills (5 to 7 days for frigate level 5? Try getting cruiser to level 5. Or Battlecruiser. Or battleship. Those are 30+ day skills. Same applies for all their respective weapon systems too).
- Only a limited number of skills affect any one ship, module, weapon system, and specialty at any given time. Ex1: Someone you are facing has about 20 million SP, but how much of that overall SP is actually combat related? He/she could be a HUGE industrial player with limited combat skills. Ex2: A veteran player has just trained up the skill Large Hybrid Turret to level 5. That skill in no way affects the skill Small Hybrid Turret and thus the veteran will be no better or worse than before at the frigate level.
- Getting a skill from level 4 to level 5 only adds on an extra 2% here, 5% there (exceptions apply). If you simply train up all the skills within a specialty to level 4 (which takes a fraction of the amount of time it takes to get those skills to level 5), you will find yourself flying at about 80 to 90% of the effectiveness of a multi-year veteran with those same skills in that specific specialty at level 5 (which is something that can be easily overcome with the right module or tactic).
- Getting a skill to level 5 is supposed to be a painful train. Many players (yes, even veteran ones) opt to avoid doing it and instead train up other skills to level 4 (again, because it's faster).
- Ships and weapons have been balanced against one another. Ex: A battleship can potentially instapop a frigate... but the frigate can fly very fast, making it difficult for the battleship's weapons to track, especially at very close range... then again, the battleship can deploy drones to deal with the frigate... and the frigate can shoot the drones down... however the battleship might have a Large Energy Neutralizer fitted to nuke the frigate's capacitor power every 24 seconds... in which case the frigate could use a Small Nosferatu that sucks out capacitor from the battleship every 3 seconds... etc. etc.
- High tech equipment (ex. T2, Faction, Officer, etc) will not confer a player "I WIN" abilities. They simply give a player a linear edge at an exponentially higher cost. Ex: A group of two or three T1-fit frigates that cost about 500 thousand to 1 million ISK CAN kill a faction frigate worth about 50 to 100 million ISK... provided they are using the right mods in the right configuration and know what they are doing.
tl;dr... - the point of the skill system is to force you to learn the game's mechanics and nuances in cheaper equipment and ships... that way when you DO gain access to more expensive equipment and ships, you know HOW to use them properly (and won't cry as much when they die).
- you DO NOT NEED to have level 5 in any specific skill to be competitive. Having level 5 in a skill is simply an edge (exception: when it is required for something else).
- more SP or "age" is not indicative of a pilot's ability. It just means that the pilot may or may not have more options in what he/she can do.
- no one ship is superior to everything in the game. Even Titans, the largest ship in the game, has an Achilles heel; smaller ships. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Lido Seahawk
Norr Amalgamated Industries
8
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 11:34:00 -
[60] - Quote
Holy crap! Just quit already. |
|
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
2021
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 17:12:00 -
[61] - Quote
Tweek Etimua wrote:As a religious person I'd like to say that I don't think that CCP meant that all religions cause problems or do stupid things (although some have, can and do). They meant that the Amar's does.
Secondly Posting why your leaving is just asking for trolls. Eve is harsh...so are it's forums. I wouldn't expect any thing other than troll posts and mocking words. When I first joined EVE, my impression of the Amarr religion thing was, "This reminds me of the kind of thing I've heard young Euro guys say: 'Religion is for ignorant superstitious sheep. It's an huge annoyance, somewhat dangerous, and more or less the enemy of intelligent rational thinking." I still kind of more or less think that's the idea behind the Amarr.
As for the lore itself, after reading quite a few discussions in the EVE Fiction thread, I don't think the Amarr religion is based on the Christian church exactly. It seems like it borrows elements from all of the monotheist religions that came out of the Middle East. Not the doctrines per se. But the history of the various churches' institutions, and the wording of scriptures in verse. The main thing is it's rigid, authoritarian, and fundamentalist, the way any of the three religions have been at some point in their histories. |
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
1015
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 06:46:00 -
[62] - Quote
I really feel the need to bring my Orange Catholic Bible after reading the nonsense this OP has managed to spew here.
I really really , if ever, never take a solid stance on anything in these forums, but honestly, reading your so biased opinions, besides being trollbait (no one,absolutely no one in their right state of mind would believe an inch of whatever you just wrote) I must stand clearly on the fence of people that would enjoy seeing you go to greener pastures.
Not only is your point logical reductionism at best (by pointing the sacrosanct religion bigotry causality and trying to deconstruct it in lies masquerading as truth as they "seem" to be printed in game as an excuse to defile the "proper" roundabouts of a Theological Construct of Pristine Quality, which I highly HIGHLY doubt was your original intent because of the way you put it out) but at worst it is simply an ages old one-sided argument, where every single thing anyone can say to you is irreversible deflected in the "purity" of your resolute idea, standpoint and or self-created moral high-ground, bent on ... no, EAGER and savoring any kind of answer you can get from all of us to wallow in your imaginary battlefield as you ring Triumphant not only over us but your very own Sacred Totem, Holy Symbol or Primordial god/demon of Preadamite Origin, feeling right as you read and reread the answers that satisfy your imaginary points in your totally isolationist consciousness.
If you are a troll you have succeeded in one thing, and one thing only, forcing me to think why I even bother to reply to some threads like this one, which I attribute to boredom, and if you are not, not only is your own idea of reality as portrayed in this thread warped beyond cognitive standards of "normalcy" for these forums, but you are just reinforcing your own points sated by the sheer act of people trying to coherently answer you and just letting this thread go into a regular farewell thread, something I perceive is not your original intent behind this bizarre experiment of yours.
A simple tip "friend", don-¦t look in here, nor anywhere else for that you are looking for.
Not only you will not get it, your own rapaciousness will simply increase the ever hungry maw of your own psyche.
Peace upon you, and may the demons that accost you be quelled.
o/
PD: And if you are just gathering data, you started with the wrong foot. Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
3064
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 14:47:00 -
[63] - Quote
I would like to point out that the skill plateau you're looking for is there.
It's in the fact every skill in the game tops out at level 5.
Also what should be noted is that SP =/= capability. One of the highest SP characters in the game has all of his skills into science, industry, and trading. He can barely fly a cruiser let alone a battleship yet he has more SP than 99% of us.
The new player friendly alliances you're looking for are CVA and EVE University. To my knowledge CVA is still kickin in the providence region of nullsec for all players to enjoy living in. They run themselves like a player-owned CONCORD for the region.
As for the slavery discussion I have come to realize that their reasons for doing so are more spiritual. Yes there is certainly the corrupt within the Amarr that use it as a means of subjugation and love beating their slaves and treating them worse then dogs. But I have come to realize that the harvest they do by hand is purposeful for humility. Even the Amarr themselves do it, they don't just send the slaves out there alone for the sake of the profit.
I suggest reading all 3 of the books that they have as part of the EVE lore.
But yes, gang wars/fights pretty well describes how the players interact on a large scale. There is no reason to do otherwise really. The honest ones inevitably get beat up by the larger guys. The only reason why CVA stays around is cause many consider the Providence region to be relatively worthless.
But yeah, you really do suck at socializing. Antagonizing the community really isn't the best way to make friends and the forums have a particular concentration of people that are of the type to call you out on these things. Perhaps visit the New Player Q&A area once in a while. We're pretty much all hugs and rainbows up there.
Maybe take a break from EVE, read a pile of the lore that you have access to with or without an active account, and then jump back in if you find the need to be part of something greater than yourself still compels you to do so.
Also, newbs certainly can be effective in combat at an early age, assuming they have a good FC that has taught them well on the ways of combat mechanics and tactics. At first you'll be just a paper ship with a tackle fit. You'll die often but still be marked as being on the kills. AS you get better skills and your find your niche you can start getting more into a DPS role where you'll contribute more...or better yet, you could go for a ewar or logi route.
Specially since they added the T1 logi in retribution you can start trying this out as a young age instead of having to spend a year getting the T2 logi skills up and getting the logi skill itself to 5. How an inquisitor with a few weeks training can be pretty damn effective for a small frigate group. The Drake is a Lie |
Adunh Slavy
1297
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 22:33:00 -
[64] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote: Saying a futuristic society with the alleged technological capabilities of the societies in game would engage in human slavery is as stupid as saying....
...that states don't have the ability to hide slavery in the devices of monetary and fiscal policy, regulation and taxation.
The best kept slave is one who does not see his own chains. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
Boomhaur
158
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 23:56:00 -
[65] - Quote
Well played Samael you seem to have reached the rank of Forum Trolling rank IV. And if you weren't trolling I truely do feel sorry for you as it seems you are not able to accept others (and games, etc) if they do not fit your belief. But just in case your not trolling read on.
It is better to approach things with an open mind and just try to enjoy life. Yes it has slavery and a whole bunch of other stuff. But so does just about every civilization known to man. The world isn't nice, neither is Eve.
Samael Pserad wrote: Atheists don't have one specific ideology - they simply deny the existence of a deity. I evaluated the four presented races and the Amarr was the only thing that remotely resembled anything I believe in. The only people I've met in life who've had any regard for me as a human being were religious people, Muslim or Christian, so I picked Amarr.
Friendly suggestion, get out of that mindset. A lot of people I know who are in the medical field are atheist and will treat every patient like family and while they are under they care they act that way and will go above and beyond what is just required to do for their job.
Another food for thought, I know a LOT of atheists who follow their own moral code and by doing so actually follow what the Bible or various other religions set out to try to teach their followers. But on the other hand I know an equal amount of very religious people who preach their religion day in and day out but have little morals and won't do what they preach. Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you. |
Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
687
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 05:43:00 -
[66] - Quote
Quote:No matter what I do, my character will always be 10 years behind every other character.
Every character, you say? AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
690
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 09:41:00 -
[67] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote:1. CCP's bigotry against religion. I'm an atheist, but a society as advanced technologically as Amarr would recognize that humans are an incredibly inefficient energy investment to perform work when technology and energy sources far beyond the first world are available. A human being puts out about 80 watts sustained power for external at the investment of about 1200 Watts for the sustaining of life. That's an efficiency of less than 10%. Because there's no reasonable reason to believe advanced technological societies would ever consider slavery, Correction: there's no reasonable reason to believe advanced technological societies would ever consider slavery for the purpose of work efficiency. Amarr doesn't enslave to get the work done, they enslave out of a belief that everyone belongs in a certain place in society, and they purposely give up efficiency to put everyone where they 'belong'. It is a core Amarrian belief that every race is worthy of redemption, but the most wayward of them must work hard for it. The Matari are forced to work harsh and unnecessary labor by the Amarrians because it is the Matari who fight back the hardest against their treatment.
And the reason they don't run to the Caldari is because they would go from hard-working, beaten, and well-fed to poor and spat upon. It's a lot easier to either organize resistance groups or just give in and start worshipping the Goddess. This is why there are Minmatar and Ammatar. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
3062
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 13:41:00 -
[68] - Quote
Boomhaur wrote:Samael Pserad wrote: Atheists don't have one specific ideology - they simply deny the existence of a deity. I evaluated the four presented races and the Amarr was the only thing that remotely resembled anything I believe in. The only people I've met in life who've had any regard for me as a human being were religious people, Muslim or Christian, so I picked Amarr.
Friendly suggestion, get out of that mindset. A lot of people I know who are in the medical field are atheist and will treat every patient like family and while they are under they care they act that way and will go above and beyond what is just required to do for their job. Another food for thought, I know a LOT of atheists who follow their own moral code and by doing so actually follow what the Bible or various other religions set out to try to teach their followers. But on the other hand I know an equal amount of very religious people who preach their religion day in and day out but have little morals and won't do what they preach.
Here is a friendly suggestion of my own; while it is true that most personnel in the medical field do care for their patients and may even put themselves at great risk for their patients but to claim that doctors care for their patients like they were family is anecdotal because there is no such evidence.
This is nonsense, as the Bible contains contradicting passages about morality and so to claim that you "know a lot of atheists" that follow the moral code of the Bible is nothing but idiotic rambling from you at this point. Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
691
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 03:58:00 -
[69] - Quote
Boomhaur wrote:I know a LOT of atheists who follow their own moral code and by doing so actually follow what the Bible or various other religions set out to try to teach their followers. As an atheist, I find it insulting that you would compare my morality with one of the most violent, contradictive, and subjugating religions in the history of our species. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Auric Varangian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 13:46:00 -
[70] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote:Eurydia Vespasian wrote:you're pretty peeved about the slavery thing, huh?
I guess that saying "it's just a video game" won't help in this situation, hmm? Not so much that so much as I am forced to chose among four races which I hate and have little to no redeeming qualities and the most appealing to me happens to be the one that most players are against because CCP decided to play on the pop culture myth that religion inherently causes slavery. Of course it's just a game - but there's plenty of people who will make your game experience extra miserable for choosing Amarr. Additionally, the subtext is, quite simply, that Abrahamic monotheism is to blame for slavery which simply doesn't hold water historically. It's a popular atheistic straw-man argument based on an appeal to consequences fallacy arguing against religion. Like all hate groups - it attributes to a large group of people responsibility for some evil. But, yes, I studied religion in college, among other things, and I think it's a tremendously stupid and childish argument to attribute to religion, rather than the human capacity for evil and economic reality, the existence of slavery. I don't patronize TV shows that portray blacks as stupid and/or bafoonish and/or criminal. I don't patronize film or movies that portray gays as serial killers and/or child molesters. I don't patronize video games that portray women as stupid, weak and childish. Why should I make an exception for CCP's decision to portray monotheistic religion as a sock-puppet of medieval Europe?
I think you should unsub, this game isn't for you. As simple as that. Why you bothered to start in EVE is a riddle, since you don't like anything with it. Oh well, bye bye. |
|
claire xxx
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 14:21:00 -
[71] - Quote
In the immortal words of Bill Murray (movie; Stripes,) "... lighten up Francis."
|
DJ Auger
Eve Radio Corporation
6
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 14:01:00 -
[72] - Quote
This all sounds pretty familiar...oh wait! You already made one of these threads!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3960728#post3960728
Good read. Thanks for the material. Leaving based on lore is kinda silly, but hey, there IS an rp community in this game if that is how you want to play. In the real world side of Eve (which, oh by the way, is all of it) there is something we like to call the "metagame" where the roleplaying element of the game is dictated by the actions we as players take within and outside the game.
This is a great example. I do a segment on my show (see signature for details) where I feature dramatic readings of people quitting the game, and my take on the fallacy within. This will be the first time that I get to use someone's rant twice in back-to-back weeks so thank you for making my job nice and easy.
The part that I contribute to the lore of Eve is as a radio host, on this toon at least, as I believe we create our own lore. The story we create as players is the best kind of story a game can ask for. It's not preexistent, on-rails storytelling, it's more modular than that. WE decide how the story plays out, and that's why we, as a whole, find stories like the Battle of Asaki or the Somer Blink controversy immensely more interesting than any "live event" that the devs put on, for better or worse.
In short, thanks for the read, and I hope that you can see the self-inflicted satire in your original post and laugh about it in the future. I'd ask for your stuff but many people already have. In both of your ragequit threads. Broadcasting live 24/7 across New Eden for the last ten years. www.eve-radio.com |
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
4571
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 14:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
shamless plug there, auger. |
Qweasdy
Absolute Massive Destruction Cult of War
38
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 17:53:00 -
[74] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote: 1. But the implication CCP is making is clear: religion, particularly Christianity = slavery. Therefore, Martin Luther King Jr. was an advocate of slavery, as was Harriet Beecher Stowe or Levi Coffin...
2. No, it just makes it unappealing to play because there's no plateau which means that your character will always be inferior to a vast majority of other players. People play games because they like mobility - there's no mobility with a system that gives extreme advantages to people who have played for ten years and no real hope for newer players to catch up.
3. Yep, I suppose I just suck at socializing. The massive amount of hostile comments on the message boards is clearly indicative of the amount of douchebags in game and the fact that a large portion of new players just hang out in high sec because they don't really have a choice to go anywhere else because it's oh so fun PvP to gank T1 frigates in your squad of T2 cruisers or whatever. Realistic would be that there were some alliances with codes of honor or something along those lines. I.E. - you're free to roam their null space until you commit hostile acts or something. As it is, just shooting anything neutral that gets near you is just lame.
4. I'm not.
5. I don't know what you mean. I sat there and looked at how long it would take to be particularly effective in combat and I thought: "do I really want to spend the next year just running data and combat sites or mining while dodging everything and never getting the satisfaction of payback?" And, I arrived at the conclusion, no, I really don't.
1. I don't feel like arguing about lore.
2. There is a plateau, there are lots of plateaus in fact, you can get almost perfect in specific areas within a few months due to the simple fact that you cannot go past level 5 on your skills, a 6 moth player duelling a 10 year player in T1 frigs could have identical skills that matter for example.
3. I don't know how you expect us to be nice to you when you run to the forums and make a massive rant post about how we're all bigoted douchebags... so yes if that's how you socialize you're ******* awful at it.
4. I am, I don't feel behind at all, not even 2 years in and in terms of combat skills I don't feel behind at all.
5. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=17760057https://zkillboard.com/detail/27757282/ (other person on killmail was damage done before he docked and undocked again) and https://zkillboard.com/detail/32665609/ (same story, also that incursus was fitted for 3 mill isk)... So tell me again how isk and skillpoints will make you win every single time and counters are irrelevant.
Also can I has your stuff? |
DJ Auger
Eve Radio Corporation
6
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 20:03:00 -
[75] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:shamless plug there, auger.
Uh, yes? I lost my shame years ago. Broadcasting live 24/7 across New Eden for the last ten years. www.eve-radio.com |
Vedor Teo
House of Nim-Lhach Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers
2
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 19:56:00 -
[76] - Quote
Can I have your ISK, as you leave? |
Frank Millar
435
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 22:39:00 -
[77] - Quote
Holy necro, batman!
Vedor Teo wrote:Can I have your ISK, as you leave? You're a bit late to the party, aren't you? |
Alice Saki
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
105121
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 22:52:00 -
[78] - Quote
Brave Newbie says it all.
Did not read xD
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4297
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 02:33:00 -
[79] - Quote
There's more to the system of slavery in Amarr than labor. That's one of the major issues with them.
The point of Amarrian slavery is that when you have a "system" of exploitation or some other horrid scheme, people get used to it. For example, we see today how bad slavery is but wonder how people could have tolerated it then and canonize John Brown and his armed abolitionist insurrection. But notice how abortion has the same debate but anybody who bombs a clinic is the devil incarnate now just as John Brown was then.
Why is one bad and the other good? And by the same people who say the other is bad? They lack an understanding of "systems" and see the action as naked without it, thinking "how could this be" and failing too see how casually low and without awareness the human race could go.
That's "the system" and if you want to understand the system, you have to understand what people get used to, and this was a very large point of Gerry Spence's book "Give Me Liberty" where he explores how the people who wrote the Bill of Rights could also be slave owners.
So understand that, and you understand the Amarr and how the people who invented faster than light travel can still have slaves.
Now when it comes to the empires and their technology, CCP did their homework. Note how the tracking systems are? Ladar, Magnetometric, radar, etc? The ships are designed around this. Someone sat down and wondered how the reflectors and transmitters for such systems would look. So when it comes to the societies, their technologies, and how they act, they did their homework and the Amarr and their slavery is no accident. |
Sibyyl
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 05:38:00 -
[80] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote:1. CCP's bigotry against religion.
[snip]
Saying a futuristic society with the alleged technological capabilities of the societies in game would engage in human slavery is as stupid as saying the Caldari plow their fields with oxen. Specious argument. Doesn't check out when you think about it.
The decision to have slaves is dogmatic. Why are you insisting that all dogmatic decisions are automagically economically and logistically viable? It doesn't make any economic sense to commit genocide on a segment of people with strong cultural and financial contributions to society, but history has plenty of examples of it.
In terms of cows ploughing fields when warp technology is easily available, Joss Whedon's Firefly had an excellent argument for it: simply because there's wealth doesn't imply all people on all remote planets get to bathe in it. Inequality is going to be alive and well in the future, and so you'll always have cows and primitive instruments for people to make do with.
Quote:2. No matter what I do, my character will always be 10 years behind every other character. This is an absolute fail I'm new to the game but: you are not your skills. Not being able to compete with veterans is a personal problem, not a game design issue.
Quote:3. Unfriendly players. Unbelievable number of friendly players in the game. Doesn't mean there aren't people out there who'll jack your stuff. So what? Go get more stuff.
Quote:This game isn't fun for new players It's been fun for me, but my definition of fun is not the same as another person's definition.
You should play. It's a fun game.
/Fÿ¡ |
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Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
943
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 08:28:00 -
[81] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote:Alpheias wrote:First and can I have your stuff? If you were capable of reading, I already addressed the fact that several billion in ISK has been turned over to someone.
Can we have his stuff then? Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
943
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 09:06:00 -
[82] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:I kind of agree against the backstory's bias against religion. The only religious group in the game are set up to be bigoted slaver hypocrites.
There are still the blood raiders, at least they're honest about what they do and why. Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Aimy Maulerant
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
7
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 11:15:00 -
[83] - Quote
been playing for 4 months now and love the game, religion? why is religion being brought into the equation on a game why cant you ignore it instead of making an issue out of something which actually sounds pathetic, typical religious orientated people always trying to make a scene and get attention.
as ive been playing for 4 months and i have lost near 100 ships to players who have been playing for 5-10 years but it never bothered me the way i see it is you learn to fight the biggest players making you better at the game in the long run, an experienced person is someone who has made alot of mistakes, i have made alot of mistakes in my time in lowsec and null and have learned alot from it so everytime i fight someone i actually get better and get pretty excited when i last long enough to take there shields down, and learn how to survive, the time will come when i have enough sp to compete against these guys and get a good looking killboard if needs be i will buy a character to give me a few years boost but i see the best way is to learn the hard way, its not what you fly its how you fly it.
i think the fact im on 100 peoples killboard is quite funny great fun
dont really care for speed boosts for skills thats a crap idea and for people who cant be bothered to learn and just want to spend -ú1k to get decent skills, that sort of thing ruins the game, ccp dont do any speed ups it takes away the fun and skill aspect of the game
maybe you should go play viva pinata as your crying isnt really getting you anywhere. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
99277
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 17:32:00 -
[84] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote:
Saying a futuristic society with the alleged technological capabilities of the societies in game would engage in human slavery is as stupid as saying the Caldari plow their fields with oxen.
Why, we actually employ slave labor all over the world, especially in the world of banking, IT, and even TV scriptwriting.
You heard of a thing called internship ? Working a job with no pay ?? That is indeed slave labor, and it's alive and well.
And that's not even going into the sex-trafficking issues plaguing things worldwide. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Commissar Kate
Team Evil
45196
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 17:39:00 -
[85] - Quote
Wow this thread is still going?
Two things I'v learned.
Never underestimate religious fanatics and stupid people.
They both do things that boggle the mind. People, who talk, don't know. People, who know, don't talk.
Unlocking all racial clothing |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1036
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 22:43:00 -
[86] - Quote
OP, some people just need to dominate other people it's not about the slavery as such, but more about the fact that the amarr religion demands that you submit to the will of your social betters. It's a society that breeds psychopathy and ritualises it at every turn. Thus there is a need for some people to dominate and for others to be dominated, this naturally enough leads to slavery.
Also take a look at our own history, human beings have done incredibly stupid and impractical things in the name of religion both in the distant past and in the present day.
Nothing is more stupid and impractical than suicide bombing yet it happens. What about refusing to eat certain foods due to religious observance. It happens. What about commiting genocide of entire populations consigning both the people you want to save and the people you want to die to death on the premise that God would know his own. That's happened.
Of course drones would be more efficient, but there's no satisfaction in dominating a drone. I though this had been made clear in the lore/eve chronicles. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Oxylan
QRDELESH - Mutual Admiration Society
116
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 02:55:00 -
[87] - Quote
Dude why you bring these crazy religion or atheist aspects to this game, man i realy dont care.
Also you need to calm down, and stop thinking about this matter. If it bleed we can kill it. |
Effect One
Vengeful Swan
113
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 12:16:00 -
[88] - Quote
Ok. Bye.
'EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay' - CCP Rise |
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