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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
kes88
Swords of Persephone
43
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Posted - 2014.01.08 20:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
Favonius85 wrote:This idea has my support, you can always trust a man with no eyebrows.
You can NEVER trust a man with no eyebrows.
I learnt this lesson the hard way after a very unpleasant experience of borrowing a lighter from a man with no eyebrows.
Also, I'm still really into the idea someone else in *another* miner bumping thread (called "Bumping miners" or something) brought up - that the miners should bump back.
I'm convinced that they would garner even greater enjoyment from the game if they did this.
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Tweek Etimua
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2014.01.08 20:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
Off topic: the oper sure is tyring hard to make eve soft. Stop it.
Bumping, a good strategy. I my self am surprised that so few people do it. Although it is verry frustating to get bumped, ecm'd and even alpha'd. HOWEVER its eve. Its a hard game. If you can't handle the ammount of difficulty there are plenty of other mmos that are soft. |
Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken Ragnarok.
131
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Posted - 2014.01.08 20:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
Bobby Frutt wrote:In it's current form, bumping can be used as a means of keeping people unaligned and thus disallowing them to warp.
The problem with this is it breaks game balance. Activating a warp scrambler or disruptor on a random target in hi-sec will illicit a CONCORD response. Keep in mind, the only purpose of a warp scrambler/disruptor module is to prevent a ship from warping away. Now we ask ourselves: Why does it illicit a CONCORD response? If the only purpose is the prevent a ship from warping away, the only answer is that it illicits a CONCORD response because you attempted to prevent their ship from warping away.
Why then should the same reasoning not apply to bumping? Bumping someone as they try to warp away at a gate has the exact same affect as a module that is considered criminal; should the bumping not be considered criminal too? The problem with that is everyone and their mother would end up being a criminal. The entire Jita undock would just be criminals!
My proposed solution is simple: You should have to be a suspect, criminal or engaged in combat to bump other ships. Add a feature where you can simply turn yourself suspect with the click of a button. Now that you are suspect, you can try and bump that freighter out of alignment! The difference is, people can now shoot you at least. That's balanced. That's fair.
Bumping in wardecs, FW targets, fellow corp members, WH/Null should still work as it does now. The whole point here is to balance the mechanics of bumping with the increased security that comes with hi-sec.
The downside to this is that places like Jita undock will look ridiculous, with ships passing through eachother all the time. I would say that is a small price to pay for fixing the current bumping mechanics.
you should feel bad as this post is bad
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1041
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Posted - 2014.01.08 21:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
Bobby Frutt wrote:In it's current form, bumping can be used as a means of keeping people unaligned and thus disallowing them to warp.
The problem with this is it breaks game balance. Activating a warp scrambler or disruptor on a random target in hi-sec will illicit a CONCORD response. Keep in mind, the only purpose of a warp scrambler/disruptor module is to prevent a ship from warping away. Now we ask ourselves: Why does it illicit a CONCORD response? If the only purpose is the prevent a ship from warping away, the only answer is that it illicits a CONCORD response because you attempted to prevent their ship from warping away.
Why then should the same reasoning not apply to bumping? Bumping someone as they try to warp away at a gate has the exact same affect as a module that is considered criminal; should the bumping not be considered criminal too? The problem with that is everyone and their mother would end up being a criminal. The entire Jita undock would just be criminals!
My proposed solution is simple: You should have to be a suspect, criminal or engaged in combat to bump other ships. Add a feature where you can simply turn yourself suspect with the click of a button. Now that you are suspect, you can try and bump that freighter out of alignment! The difference is, people can now shoot you at least. That's balanced. That's fair.
Bumping in wardecs, FW targets, fellow corp members, WH/Null should still work as it does now. The whole point here is to balance the mechanics of bumping with the increased security that comes with hi-sec.
The downside to this is that places like Jita undock will look ridiculous, with ships passing through eachother all the time. I would say that is a small price to pay for fixing the current bumping mechanics.
The idea is as beutiful as the face of your avatar.... Woudl love it altough jsut watch jita undock and kill everybody undockign because of this dumb idea... because without bumpign people would get STUCK there! I for once woudl park a few freighters blockign every body exit.. so they woudl need to becoem criminals to push me out while my other chars woudl kill them.
Incredble game design...r eally "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
The Legendary Soldier
Rock Botherers
354
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Posted - 2014.01.08 21:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Not really, no, since you can still trivially get away if all they do is bump you. The ease of escaping it matches the ease of doing it GÇö balance.
For a miner this is probably true, but a freighter can literally be bumped virtually indefinitely, without the bumper being flagged for retaliation - this does seem a little unbalanced... Need to place a high-sec POS? Premade corps for sale, or your corps standings boosted. Trading since January 2012. Many corps sold/boosted - see my thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63128&find=unread |
The Legendary Soldier
Rock Botherers
354
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Posted - 2014.01.08 21:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
double Need to place a high-sec POS? Premade corps for sale, or your corps standings boosted. Trading since January 2012. Many corps sold/boosted - see my thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63128&find=unread |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
771
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Posted - 2014.01.08 21:18:00 -
[37] - Quote
no
matter of fact, Hell No
just for the sake of argument, five newbie frigs park near a mackinaw.
Mackinaw moves, bumps, Concord reacts
gun free gank
so as I said
NO
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
464
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Posted - 2014.01.08 21:21:00 -
[38] - Quote
The Legendary Soldier wrote:Tippia wrote: Not really, no, since you can still trivially get away if all they do is bump you. The ease of escaping it matches the ease of doing it GÇö balance.
For a miner this is probably true, but a freighter can be bumped virtually indefinitely, without the bumper being flagged for retaliation - this does seem a little unbalanced...
Yes because the freighter pilot is just itching to pull the trigger on his.... ??? in retaliation.
Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
18790
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Posted - 2014.01.08 21:28:00 -
[39] - Quote
The Legendary Soldier wrote:For a miner this is probably true, but a freighter can be bumped virtually indefinitely, without the bumper being flagged for retaliation - this does seem a little unbalanced... The ship type is not a factor. You can get away as trivially regardless. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Atog Uz
Help Desk Please Hold
0
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Posted - 2014.01.08 21:32:00 -
[40] - Quote
Kryptik Kai wrote:Oh for the days when bumping actually caused a slight bit of damage
I am actually surprised that it doesn't on this game.
As a new player, who had played World of Tanks, I was in fear of smearing my little frigate on some larger ship.
I mean realistically, you go smashing into a much larger target at high speed you will cause/take some damage. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
18790
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Posted - 2014.01.08 21:35:00 -
[41] - Quote
Atog Uz wrote:Kryptik Kai wrote:Oh for the days when bumping actually caused a slight bit of damage I am actually surprised that it doesn't on this game. As a new player, who had played World of Tanks, I was in fear of smearing my little frigate on some larger ship. I mean realistically, you go smashing into a much larger target at high speed you will cause/take some damage. Realistically, it would also be hideously exploitable. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken Ragnarok.
132
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Posted - 2014.01.08 21:40:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Atog Uz wrote:Kryptik Kai wrote:Oh for the days when bumping actually caused a slight bit of damage I am actually surprised that it doesn't on this game. As a new player, who had played World of Tanks, I was in fear of smearing my little frigate on some larger ship. I mean realistically, you go smashing into a much larger target at high speed you will cause/take some damage. Realistically, it would also be hideously exploitable hilarious.
fixed |
Jamagh
Sci Adventures
139
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Posted - 2014.01.08 21:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:Dude, your face..
I know.... ever time I see his face, I think of Lex Luthor. I keep expecting him to go ranting about Superman and start throwing kryptonite around. "Please stop reopening silly rumor threads."-á CCP Navigator. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8225
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Posted - 2014.01.08 21:42:00 -
[44] - Quote
kes88 wrote:[quote=Favonius85]I learnt this lesson the hard way after a very unpleasant experience of borrowing a lighter from a man with no eyebrows. You could have just asked him if it was modified. My EVE Videos |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
128
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Posted - 2014.01.08 21:52:00 -
[45] - Quote
Atog Uz wrote:Kryptik Kai wrote:Oh for the days when bumping actually caused a slight bit of damage I am actually surprised that it doesn't on this game. As a new player, who had played World of Tanks, I was in fear of smearing my little frigate on some larger ship. I mean realistically, you go smashing into a much larger target at high speed you will cause/take some damage.
Do not be fooled by the impressive feel of the vast expanses of unexplored space and the various high tech (or not so high tech in the case of Minmatar) looking ships.
The physics and collision mechanics was stolen directly form a Nintendo 64 based game from the 90s called "Rubber Duckies in a bath-tub". |
kes88
Swords of Persephone
43
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Posted - 2014.01.08 22:00:00 -
[46] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:kes88 wrote:[quote=Favonius85]I learnt this lesson the hard way after a very unpleasant experience of borrowing a lighter from a man with no eyebrows. You could have just asked him if it was modified.
Sadly, I didn't make the connection until after I had lost my own. <--- like that, but with no eyebrows.
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Herrin Asura
Covert Agency for Surreptitious Annihilation
4
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Posted - 2014.01.08 22:07:00 -
[47] - Quote
Well, I'm not involved in this because I'm not a miner or bumper but after seeing countless threads about this topic I really have to ask why nearly everyone thinks that bumping is ok?
I'm not talking about the GM statement here (wich meant nothing more than "We don't like it, but we can't fix it right now"). What I mean is that bumping is ridiculous. We are all playing a game about Ninjas and Pirates and Lasers and **** and some people have nothing better to do than bumping miners? Don't get me wrong, the fact that you have boundless possibilities in EVE to ruin someones day is what makes this game brilliant and unique but bumping has absolutley no style. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
465
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Posted - 2014.01.08 22:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
Herrin Asura wrote:Well, I'm not involved in this because I'm not a miner or bumper but after seeing countless threads about this topic I really have to ask why nearly everyone thinks that bumping is ok?
I'm not talking about the GM statement here (wich meant nothing more than "We don't like it, but we can't fix it right now"). What I mean is that bumping is ridiculous. We are all playing a game about Ninjas and Pirates and Lasers and **** and some people have nothing better to do than bumping miners? Don't get me wrong, the fact that you have boundless possibilities in EVE to ruin someones day is what makes this game brilliant and unique but bumping has absolutley no style.
I'm inclined to agree with you Herrin. Neither a miner nor a bumper so maybe I just can't understand. It seems to me you either shoot the miner or you don't. I think part of it might be the extortion part but *shrug*, it all seems mildly ******** to me.
Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has. |
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Stillwater Corporation
203
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Posted - 2014.01.08 22:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
Realistic physics would end bumping very quickly.
The sound of the Amarrian heart |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
18791
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Posted - 2014.01.08 22:34:00 -
[50] - Quote
Herrin Asura wrote:I really have to ask why nearly everyone thinks that bumping is ok? Because it's either that or nerfing CONCORD back to 2006:ish levels to keep things balanced. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
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The Legendary Soldier
Rock Botherers
354
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Posted - 2014.01.08 23:12:00 -
[51] - Quote
Tippia wrote:The Legendary Soldier wrote:For a miner this is probably true, but a freighter can be bumped virtually indefinitely, without the bumper being flagged for retaliation - this does seem a little unbalanced... The ship type is not a factor. You can get away as trivially regardless.
Please enlighten me how you can trivially escape in a freighter that is being bumped. Need to place a high-sec POS? Premade corps for sale, or your corps standings boosted. Trading since January 2012. Many corps sold/boosted - see my thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63128&find=unread |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
15546
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Posted - 2014.01.08 23:18:00 -
[52] - Quote
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote: Scale it up a bit, and use the right scales please. A train vs a car is not the right scale as I shall illustrate below.
An over sized MWD SFI is a common choice for bumping, the bare hull has a mass of approx 10,000 tonnes, the oversized MWD has its own mass penalty of around 5,000 tonnes. That's around 15,000 tonnes traveling at somewhere between 3,500 and 4,600 mph (1,600ish m/s - 2,100ish m/s) with the MWD going, depending on skills.
To put that into perspective that's an object which masses around the same as a light aircraft carrier (HMS Invincible massed 16,000 tonnes unladen) with a velocity in excess of Mach 4.5.
For reference a bare Mackinaw has a mass of 20,000 tonnes. Imagine a 15,000 tonne object, the SFI, hitting it at 3,500 mph, what do you think will happen? Personally I predict a massive explosion or two and many many giggles for the person in the SFI.
Believe me, you do not want realistic bumping physics in Eve, because it will cause more tears than the mechanic we currently have.
TL;DR if bumping was realistic, we could gank you without using guns, and we'd laugh hysterically while doing so. |
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
630
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Posted - 2014.01.08 23:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
This, again? How many threads on this topic has there been now? Have we hit 100 yet? More?
Dude. CCP says otherwise. Yer bleatin' and whinging ain't gunna get you jack. HTFU and deal.
Edit: Oh and yeah: What the hell happened to yer face? CCP, debuff Barges, or buff Ganking. Either will do for me, but we need more Yaaar! in this game lest it become WoW in Spaaaaace! -á~ Me |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
18793
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Posted - 2014.01.08 23:23:00 -
[54] - Quote
The Legendary Soldier wrote:Please enlighten me how you can trivially escape in a freighter that is being bumped. GîÿQ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Carmen Electra
The Scope Gallente Federation
206
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Posted - 2014.01.08 23:25:00 -
[55] - Quote
I find bumping to be one of the most annoying "features" in eve. I can't stand getting my ship snagged on invisible barriers. Just remove collisions from the game completely. Would that be bad for immersion? No more so than the 1s server tick rate! |
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
630
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Posted - 2014.01.08 23:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:I find bumping to be one of the most annoying "features" in eve. I can't stand getting my ship snagged on invisible barriers. Just remove collisions from the game completely. Would that be bad for immersion? No more so than the 1s server tick rate! So, what..? Slow-boatibng through planets? Getting hopelessly lost inside a stellar object? Hiding inside asteroids whilst you're mining them? (or hiding inside asteroids whlst preparing to gank?)
Actually, that last one soudns like fun. Carry on! CCP, debuff Barges, or buff Ganking. Either will do for me, but we need more Yaaar! in this game lest it become WoW in Spaaaaace! -á~ Me |
Carmen Electra
The Scope Gallente Federation
206
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Posted - 2014.01.08 23:33:00 -
[57] - Quote
Plastic Psycho wrote:So, what..? Slow-boatibng through planets? Getting hopelessly lost inside a stellar object? Hiding inside asteroids whilst you're mining them? (or hiding inside asteroids whlst preparing to gank?)
Actually, that last one sounds like fun. Carry on!
You're right, so many interesting possibilities. Now I'm more convinced we need to remove collisions.
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Bel Tika
Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's
201
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Posted - 2014.01.09 00:12:00 -
[58] - Quote
i like repeating myself so i say it again, hi-sec needs blew up |
Bobby Frutt
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
32
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Posted - 2014.01.09 05:03:00 -
[59] - Quote
Changed a few things in the OP. Mainly: Fleet members as well should obviously collide with one another.
This isn't impossible or unrealistic, ya know. Two points consider:
1) When you join a fleet or a corp, things in space such as can ownership change 2) When you undock from a station, you cannot collide with any ships you happen to undock with. If you travel 100km out while still "inside" the other ship, you will remain there.
Considering both points it becomes reasonable to assume this is possible. |
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ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
352
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Posted - 2014.01.09 05:15:00 -
[60] - Quote
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion. ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
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