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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2260
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 03:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Honestly between uncatchable interceptors and this stupid thing, i can't see any real reason to do any moneymaking in null. I mean running an anom right now nets me about 60-70m/h. Meanwhile I can go run an incursion for 100m/h+ and the only risk is hating myself. I already do that. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2260
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 03:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well better post post post until CCP locks the thread because apparently "This idea is ******* dumb" isn't "Constructive" or something.
Well I guess I'll post something constructive "Hey CCP why don't you take the dev time spent on dumb ideas like this and make the Pilgrim not suck" |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2261
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 03:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Better nerf nullsec income because individual pilots tend to make about 60-80M an hour, please ignore the elephant in the room (That Incursioners/Mission runners make more than that in relative safety).
Hey anyone remember "Farms and Fields?" What happened there? |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2261
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 03:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Whoops sorry couldn't post again there for a second because my gang was trying to lock a maladiction that has a 1.9 align/warp speed making it entirely untouchable due to 1 second server ticks.
Apparently stuffing sebos in a stilleto till it locks a pod in a second isn't enough. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2269
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 03:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Genseric Tollaris wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:Whoops sorry couldn't post again there for a second because my gang was trying to lock a maladiction that has a 1.9 align/warp speed making it entirely untouchable due to 1 second server ticks.
Apparently stuffing sebos in a stilleto till it locks a pod in a second isn't enough. Then how about you whiny fucks go back to high sec. You'll get the big isk and you can grief the hell out of all the carebears and pubbies and you won't have to worry about interceptors. Seriously. Why do you even null?
God yeah your right, we should probably just let the game become so broken no one enjoys playing it, I mean it's only like two point five years till star citizen comes out. I say we get remote doomsdays back too. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2271
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 03:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hey CCP I have this wild idea to make the PVE in your game even more tedious. Replace all bounties with Tags. ALL bounties. Then make it so the tags can only be traded in for raw materials. Which you use to craft your ships yourself. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2271
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 03:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Genseric Tollaris wrote: I'm sure CCP will fix the horrible and unjust imbalance when they see you vote with your feet and move back to empire.
"Move back" implies I've ever spent significant time in empire. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2271
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 04:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Why do that when I can just send an alt to highsec and continue to shoot at unimportant recruiting alliance full of pubbie scrublords like yourself? |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2272
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 04:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Genseric Tollaris wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:Why do that when I can just send an alt to highsec and continue to shoot at unimportant recruiting alliance full of pubbie scrublords like yourself? For the pleasure of doing it with your main of course. And so you don't have to cry all over the forums about how unfair the game is. Change your play style bro, then you won't have to whinge as much.
It's not unfair, it's broken. There's a difference. A hotdrop is generally "Unfair" to the recipient of a hotdrop. But it's not broken, it has a counter, and it has inherent risks and rewards. I realize you are dumb so you may not understand the inherent "Risk vs Reward" tenant that is the entire basis for this game and I'd spell it out but I'm honestly pretty lazy. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2272
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 04:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
trader joes Ichinumi wrote:A flat nerf to null bounties would have been simpler and less annoying.
I pretty much agree. Allthough CCP has always stated that increased rewards should follow the more risks a player takes (And of course survives). A pure isk faucet like rat bounties was a bad idea from the get go. I rather like what one goon posted which was if you want to reduce faucets and get isk moving around in the economy, change half of the rat bounties into LP and put LP stores in every nullsec station.
But that's a good idea so CCP would never do that. |
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2277
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 04:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Joan Greywind wrote: Oh how terrible, all the big nullsec blobbers agree that actually pvping to keep their ratters income up is a travesty. This is totally unacceptable, I mean do you actually mean that now we can't just dock up? Do you mean now we have to actually start protecting our renters and ratting income, tsk tsk, totally unacceptable.
Anyways the only issue I find with it is the time to steal is very short, 60 secs is way too low, it should at least be 3 mins and 5 mins ideally. Give time for actual ships to warp there.
And it's not a nerf if you deploy this right and are willing to fight for the income. It will decrease it by 5% intially but has the potential to increase it by 25%, which is a significant boost in income.
The only thing worse than carebears is nullbears, because carebears are at least honest about it.
Ugh I hate nested quotes. But at any rate there is at the moment very little you can do to deal with a gang of 5 or so interceptors except run away. There is no way to force them into conflict with a force that could "Deal" with them.
Baiting them is ineffective because an interceptor with MWD running can allign/warp before a ship lands on grid.
Covert drops won't work because again, with MWD running they can warp out before the first ship loads grid.
Sitting cloaked on grid won't work because of decloak delay. You could in theory tackle with a bomber, but that would imply the interceptors weren't running a kiting missile fit with MWD's working (Sidebar: It's fast aligning fleet ceptors with missiles that are really causing all of the problems) and frankly... they will be. So that's pretty much out the window.
Interceptor gangs have always been dangerous to ratters, and with the warp speed buffs they would be even more so, but before you could force an engagement and actually "Defend" your space using bubbles and force them to fight hide or die. Now they can run in, kill something, run straight through the defensive gang meant to "kill them" and bounce down the pipe. The only thing you can really do is chase them around and hope they get tired of it and leave.
Before the inevitable comparison to a blops gang, bombers and the like are very vulnerable at gates, and are generally easy to counter drop if you know they are active. And that's kinda the point: There is a counter. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2277
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 04:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Genseric Tollaris wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote: It's not unfair, it's broken. There's a difference. A hotdrop is generally "Unfair" to the recipient of a hotdrop. But it's not broken, it has a counter, and it has inherent risks and rewards. I realize you are dumb so you may not understand the inherent "Risk vs Reward" tenant that is the entire basis for this game and I'd spell it out but I'm honestly pretty lazy. No, please do explain it to me. As though you were explaining it to a child. Explain to me how the ESS is broken and has no counter. Explain to me how it doesn't add to the risk v reward dimension. Explain how it won't be fixed if CCP finds that it really is broken and you're not just a whinging *****.
The initial nested quote that started this argument was me talking about the interceptor problem you inconsistent shitlord. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2277
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 04:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:incursions and l4's dont generate a ton of isk. Granted, you qualify this statement as "they generate loyalty points instead", but that is still bar none the stupidest thing I have ever heard anyone say on these forums. what? so you don't understand the difference between say, a pound of gold, and a wad of cash? you view them as equivalent? if you mine gold out of the ground - you "create" dollars?.... no - you don't. ... or are you just being thick on purpose? some sort of troll? reminds me of this picture: https://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1338/97/1338970066809.png
I get that you get this, but just to expand:
LP and the things you buy with it are actually an ISK sink which is a good thing. Rat bounties are an isk faucet as in they inject ISK into the economy out of the ~either~
The money you get from selling your LP gained items is moving from other players to you, thus it is not created out of nothing. It's a really simple concept and I'm at a loss as to why people don't get it. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2277
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 04:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Joan Greywind wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:
Ugh I hate nested quotes. But at any rate there is at the moment very little you can do to deal with a gang of 5 or so interceptors except run away. There is no way to force them into conflict with a force that could "Deal" with them.
Baiting them is ineffective because an interceptor with MWD running can allign/warp before a ship lands on grid.
Covert drops won't work because again, with MWD running they can warp out before the first ship loads grid.
Sitting cloaked on grid won't work because of decloak delay. You could in theory tackle with a bomber, but that would imply the interceptors weren't running a kiting missile fit with MWD's working (Sidebar: It's fast aligning fleet ceptors with missiles that are really causing all of the problems) and frankly... they will be. So that's pretty much out the window.
Interceptor gangs have always been dangerous to ratters, and with the warp speed buffs they would be even more so, but before you could force an engagement and actually "Defend" your space using bubbles and force them to fight hide or die. Now they can run in, kill something, run straight through the defensive gang meant to "kill them" and bounce down the pipe. The only thing you can really do is chase them around and hope they get tired of it and leave.
Before the inevitable comparison to a blops gang, bombers and the like are very vulnerable at gates, and are generally easy to counter drop if you know they are active. And that's kinda the point: There is a counter.
I don't know what "nested" quotes are, does it mean sarcastic ones? Anyways if intys are a problem by always "running away" then godforbid you actually keep 1 ship to guard the module, or you know actually kill it. At the end of the day even if they heavily outnumber the enemy, ceptors have a very poor ability to actually fight. So if ceptors are a big problem just keep a vaga that can kill a bunch of them. If there is like 50 of them, oh god forbid you have to actually to form up to protect your income. Worst case scenario, please tell me you are not ratting when there is a 50 man inty gang roaming around, you just destroy the ****** module when they leave system. Adapt or die, nullseccers have been moaning and whinning about "farms and fields" since forever and once it gets started the whinning against it begins. Maybe by "farms and fields" they meant systems they can plow but cannot be raided?
Are you illiterate? Start with the post where you quoted me regarding interceptors and work your way up to here.
Hint: It has nothing to do with the ESS.
Double Hint: A vagabond cannot catch or kill a malediction right now unless he screws up in a glorious method. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2277
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 04:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ah, I thought she was talking about the end result for the individual player?
Nah it was very much a faucets vs sinks thing. Converting bounties to LP would be a bit of a pain, but overall good for the health of the economy.
Allthough according to CCP last year there was no major inflation problem and the graphs they were showing had the worst isk faucets being highsec. And that was before the nullsec anom nerf. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2277
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 05:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Joan Greywind wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:
Are you illiterate? Start with the post where you quoted me regarding interceptors and work your way up to here.
Hint: It has nothing to do with the ESS.
Double Hint: A vagabond cannot catch or kill a malediction right now unless he screws up in a glorious method.
Yes personal insults have began, that means you are winning the argument right? Anyways If you want to steal from the module you have to actually be in 2500m of it for 60 secs. If you can't kill an inty in that timeframe in a cruiser then I don't know what I can tell you. If they don't orbit at 2500m it then it is a little harder to kill them (I am not here to teach you how to kill cepters) but hey they can't steal from you either. It is just the like the whinning about afk cloaking. Sure they are impossible to kill but if they don't actually decloak they can't hurt you. And worst case scenario you kill the module, it has freighter hp and can be killed with a single ship. Yes you lose 5% of your income but hey if you can't defend your ****** system against a bunch of ceptors then you know what you deserve to lose more than 5%.
No I'm calling you illiterate because I wasn't talking about the ESS when you engaged me, I was making a comment on the inability to secure any space no matter how much effort is due to the current meta fast align kiting interceptors have added, I have clearly and overtly stated this directly at least once, yet you still bring the ESS up as if it was winning you the argument. But please talk about he counters to the ESS again because the next time it will totally be what I was talking about when you first quoted me and started this idiot discussion. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2277
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 05:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
But yes now that you mention it the ESS adds an even bigger layer of obnoxious over "living" in nullsec rather than just fighting over it and going somewhere else to make isk like 99% of the other nullsec owners. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2278
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 05:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
oh wow I think I got my pubbies mixed up, sorry you all look the same to me |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2278
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 05:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:oh wow I think I got my pubbies mixed up, sorry you all look the same to me First of all, I have no respect for Goonswarm. Second of all, you are a disgrace to Goonswarm. They're adjustments to the game. HTFU noob.
oh god i'm a laughing stock, it's ok no one has respect for agony empire because they are usually like "who's agony empire" |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2278
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 05:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
i thought the "who's agony empire" was pretty poignant |
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2278
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 05:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
oh so what was that thing you did? |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2278
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 05:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
jesus this is getting meta |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2280
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 05:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Joan Greywind wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:oh wow I think I got my pubbies mixed up, sorry you all look the same to me Now that means you are definitely winning the argument. Goon tears best tears.
Actually I won the argument when I said "Risk Vs Reward" everything past that has been low level fluff, random trolling, shitposting and generally carrying on the proud goon tradition of never not post.
Risk Vs Reward is broken in null right now, and we still have a top down income stream which is relatively unhealthy. It treats the governmental body as the producer of income which then has to dribble down to the line member. It actually works properly in WH space where taxation on member income is what drives alliance or corporation level assets and wallets.
Top down economics encourages expansionism into mega coaltions (CFC/NL-PL block) because by simply owning more space you are able to increase the coalition wallet be it via moon goo (The last meta) or renter (the current meta) which means more isk which means more power. If you turn the tables and do a bottom up method of funding what you have is individual pilots are more wealthy but the coalition itself as an entity isn't as "In charge" of the isk stockpiles so much. No amount of banding together and adding more space to your collective umbrella will really change how much isk you have as a group entity because all of your isk is ultimately coming from the people paying the ratting/refining/production taxes.
Anything yanking isk hamfistedly out of the hands of the individual pilot in nullsec is a relatively bad thing. It encourages us to not "live" here. I mean we'd still fight to keep it because top down economics encourages us to do so (See I get reimbursed the cost of many of the ships I fly should I be blown up) but we can easily make personal isk elsewhere and just return for the mechanics and fights that we love in null.
There are a ton of ways to deal with the isk faucet problem. This is a really bad one that will not have the intended effect. Instead of ratting for 19 hours people will just rat for 20, and ESS's will be destroyed on sight by any self respecting nullsec alliance for no other reason than dealing with the internal drama wouldn't be worth it. A better fix would involve splitting rat bounties into half bounty half LP payout.
There that's my honest post on the ESS, the economics of , rather than just having fun on a forum. Nerds. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2280
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 05:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
ElSuerte Diego wrote:When I first heard about this structure I thought it was going to be a tool for bottom up alliance income.
Honestly though, given the way things usually go in Null, I suspect that this will end up being more of a 5% boost than a nerf. Just park your booster alt on it while you rat if you're that worried.
I expect they won't be deployed at all with the exception of the occasional renter owned pocket and or troll drop by black ops gangs looking for a sucker. Internal ratting drama is a pain in the ass that no one wants to deal with ever, and some idiots going to smack steal on accident. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2281
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 06:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote: The 0.0 risk has always been dying in a fire. The reward has always been occasionally not dying in a fire.
I fail to see how that has changed.
Man, you guys have really gone soft.
And you are unable to address any points at all with your post. CCP has stated on several times that the more dangerous the space, the greater the rewards for living and surviving in that space should be. This is currently not the way things are layed out. It means they aren't fulfilling their very own design idea.
Logical 101 wrote: The irony here is overwhelming.
Irony isn't just a word you can throw at the wall and hope it sticks. The fact that we're using these mechanics because it's simply the best way to operate in the current meta doesn't mean they aren't ass backwards and that we can't acknowledge this fact. The assumption that a player can recognize a design decision is wrong while calling for it's change and also using it because it's the best way to survive currently is some kind of impossibility to some of you folks has always confused me. We were the ones that called for the Tech nerf first. Does this mean we refused to mine Tech? Hell no. Take the advantages you can get, but don't pretend they are "balanced". It's called objectivity.
Logical 101 wrote:These structures, along with several other highly anticipated and popular ones, are an attempt to add further functionality and new dynamic elements to 0.0. They don't break your game. They don't kill your pets. They don't shave your head while you're alseep, or rob your bank, or sodomize your livestock.
Your rageposting on the subject is plebeian at best.
But this doesn't really add functionality. As a functional idea it's a damp squib. No one but a very wet behind the ears nullsec newbie/pet will want to deploy one of these things as the bother far outweighs the reward. I expect most alliances will ban their use simply because the stupid ratting disputes are going to be just one more stack of stupid trivialities that go along with ratting rights drama that already exists between any organized group of sov holding players in nullsec. As a tool for siphoning isk from enemy space (Which would actually be how I would want to use it) it's also a bit of a waste as now I have to deal with tags, which as a marauder of ~Someone Elses Sov~ is a giant pain in the ass as it's one more damn thing I have to squirrel away in an anchored can in a dead end system till I can run my blockade runner through again. I'd rather it be a straight isk payout.
So whats left is just a 5% reduction in ISK payouts which won't really address the issue that this was introduced to help solve in the first place: Faucets and inflation. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2281
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 06:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
trader joes Ichinumi wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Batelle wrote:As for lengthening the payout period, that might be needed, but people should consider that its balanced against the defenders forming up BEFORE the hostiles enter system. So the ESS will be bait for the untouchable AFK cloakers and other nullsec pests. Sounds like the ESS might be quite useful after all. People already don't rat when a null cloaker is in system. There is too high a risk he will cyno in a fleet.
You'd be amazed. I caught a guy mining in one groups region capital (With a faction tanked mining ship) who continued to mine despite me talking in local and generally carrying on with the residents. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2282
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote: No, it doesn't. The ESS is clearly a miss, but it is only one of several new structures being deployed that this community are, for the most part, either luke warm or excited about. Not everything that gets added to the game is going to be a success, but crying buckets about how you're being marginalized with a 5% ratting income hit because you refuse to use the structures is akin to sobbing uncontrollably because you stubbed your toe.
Not even. It's a splinter. A very small, insignificant splinter when you consider how EVE players make money.
So you really have nothing? I mean your main argument here seems to be based around "I don't really like it either, but I'm offended that you don't like it enough to say something". Well ok I guess you can sprint with that and see how far you can get.
This expectation that people are just going to dislike some pointless arbitrary and crappy change, but rather than say something are just going to stew, give random passive aggressive looks and moan quietly into their livejournal while being absolutely sure that the people who are involved in that change never hear it is weird to me.
I mean this would be ironic if I was one of the "NERF HIGHSEC" group within my own organization but the shoe doesn't really fit. I simply believe there should be commiserate rewards to living in more difficult space. It would encourage me to not only fight over that space, but also to hang my hat there, make my money there, produce there etc etc... which would also give a greater opportunity for these infrastructure hitting gangs to have fun as well.
As it stands now I rarely see Goonwaffe sov space. I make my money in other ways because there is no resource in that space that is really worth the effort. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2282
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
trader joes Ichinumi wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:trader joes Ichinumi wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Batelle wrote:As for lengthening the payout period, that might be needed, but people should consider that its balanced against the defenders forming up BEFORE the hostiles enter system. So the ESS will be bait for the untouchable AFK cloakers and other nullsec pests. Sounds like the ESS might be quite useful after all. People already don't rat when a null cloaker is in system. There is too high a risk he will cyno in a fleet. You'd be amazed. I caught a guy mining in one groups region capital (With a faction tanked mining ship) who continued to mine despite me talking in local and generally carrying on with the residents. Why didn't you fit a cyno and hot drop a fleet on him? Typically after than happens once or twice people stop ratting.
A few of our other guys were right next door camping their jump bridge, I snagged an extra tackle to get his other mining ship and everyone gated over to murder him. Never saw that guy again. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2282
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:trader joes Ichinumi wrote:People already don't rat when a null cloaker is in system. I was talking about leaving your own AFK cloaky alt on the module.
Someone is going to say "Opportunity cost" soon. It would be better isk to train that alt up and dual box ratting than it would be to waste an entire account sitting there slapping a button. This is not to say someone isn't going to do it.... but thats the answer for someone who's min/maxing isk gain. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2282
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lugalbandak wrote:Fix Lag wrote:Jim Era wrote:o.O I've been away for too long, wat is this you speak of. If you can get past the very poorly written devblog, CCP's cutting nullsec ratter income by a minimum of 5% across the board and attempting to force a really, really, REALLY poorly designed mechanic down peoples' throats. It's so bad neither the defenders or offenders want to use it. That's how wretchedly horrible it is. And the blanket cut with no justification is a load of rotting Icelandic shark s hit. If nobody gonna use it , wy is there a problem null bear?
Because then the whole venture becomes another arbitrary nerf to nullsec income. |
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2284
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
But you haven't picked anything apart? I mean coming across as a pedant really isn't a goal you should be shooting for. And once again you are adding extra layers to the argument that don't even exist.
I say a single deployable is crap, a flat decline in ratting income is bad, and suddenly I'm against all deployables ever? I'll talk for me, you talk for you.
As far as isk generation goes, I like to have enough to continue the "Entertaining" bits of Eve for me which thankfully isn't much, but yes I find it obnoxious that an already fairly small income stream is being nerfed even by a small amount forcing people to stare at red X's even longer in a game just to actually... you know enjoy the game. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2284
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:pedant a person who overemphasizes minor details
Like getting stuck on other deployables which aren't even a part of the argument at hand? |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2284
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
I mean you are literally mad that I dislike a change that you don't particularly think is good. You can't really start from a more ridiculous base argument than that. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2284
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:Like getting stuck on other deployables which aren't even a part of the argument at hand? Someone is going to have to yank you kicking and screaming out of your tunnel eventually. I'm doing what I can. And I'm doing God's work, sir.
I'm not discussing those though. I don't feel the need to discuss those because I have no inherent problem with them. I mean I realize this is difficult for slow people to get but I generally don't complain about the things I like, nor do I bother bringing them up in discussions that they aren't really even related too.
I like the Stratios, I think it's can be a fun ship and a welcome addition to the game that has been lacking new covert ships for a while now. But I don't feel the need to bring it up in a discussion about nerfing nullsec income or creating a completely unrelated module that has iffy mechanics. Why do you? Is it ADD or something? |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2284
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:I mean you are literally mad No, that's you. This is my equivalent of meditation or a relaxing walk on the beach. Grab a beer and join me. Or wake up to the fact that I am stringing you along like a chipmunk on a tiny leash.
ahaha the puppetmasta defense :shobon:
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2284
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:41:00 -
[36] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Logical 101 wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:I mean you are literally mad No, that's you. This is my equivalent of meditation or a relaxing walk on the beach. Grab a beer and join me. Or wake up to the fact that I am stringing you along like a chipmunk on a tiny leash. Ah the puppetmaster argument. How nostalgic.
No dumb argument can ever be wrong if I say I was merely trolling him, it means I win! |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2284
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
I don't rat generally. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2285
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:03:00 -
[38] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:I don't rat generally. Well, what I've learned from this thread is that, although you are Goonswarm, you have no clue how to exploit (make use of) these new deployables, and that interceptors befuddle and terrify you. If that's what you were going for, well done, mission successful.
I know how to make use of several of the deployables, the utility of this one however is questionable due to being a higher opportunity cost than just not dealing with it. I don't need to rat to know this.
Interceptors do not befuddle or terrify me, they are simply imbalanced in the current pass due to the inability to force engagement with them and remove them from space in general or the area of operations. If anything I'd say that you not understanding the core tenants of what the problem is with nano'd kiting ceptors is either due to your own lack of knowledge of game mechanics or at best a low grade troll v0v. At the moment due to the changes in nullification of that particular style of ship my gang and interceptor gangs generally just stare at eachother or watch eachother pass by. They can't engage us because we'd kill them if they commit. We can't catch and engage them because it's mechanically impossible unless someone screws up so bad that they forget where the "Jump" button is.
The only other ship who's only counter while traveling is pilot stupidity is a covert/nullified T3, but even they fall prey to bad luck on occasion. I don't particularly like them either. I think travel should be dangerous in nullsec for everyone if they aren't clever.
I mean if I want a throwaway cyno that I know will get there every time I'll use an interceptor now. Something seems wrong about that. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2288
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:28:00 -
[39] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Quote:They can't engage us because we'd kill them if they commit. We can't catch and engage them Gangs picking their fights based on mobility and engagement profile. The horror.
Literally every other gang in the game can have engagements forced on them via some function, be it drops, counter drops, warp ins, bait or just catching them on the gate. Currently a nano'd malediction is functionally impossible to catch on a gate due to server ticks, it's immune to bubbles, even with MWD on it has enough agility to warp away while not aligned if you get a warp in before you can start locking, and it can do the same to a covert drop due to the glorious grid loading speeds of swapping systems. There's still bait, but most of the ships that can tie them down he'd simply never let himself be in point range of.
Most of these things don't apply to say a Taranis because it's generally a close range ship, and somewhat slow. But a malediction? Gets downright broken.
Really they just need their agility nerfed slightly, then a competent gang can catch them on a gate at least, and they'd have to have a gimmick fit ship to do it (dual sebod/rigged stilleto). |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2289
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:37:00 -
[40] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote: The lamentations of nullbears, are like a sweet wine to me.
I suppose this somehow makes you the odd man out. Some kind of rare specimen from another world.
Not really. The general consensus amongst most null dwellers (Even ones that I technically hate) is that something got a wee bit over buffed again. It happens. Your constant insistence that me stating that something is broken and providing arguments to support my claims is somehow breaking my mind down with rage and unquiet thoughts is kind of amusing, it's like an overdone "u mad bro?" |
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2289
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:38:00 -
[41] - Quote
Rastafarian God wrote: An intercepter has to hang around long enough (and close enough) for a ship to at least lock it to steal from the unit. One person sitting on the unit with a scram and web will ruin an interceptors day. From what Im reading, scram and web range is a bit farther then the access range of the unit. Just form a small "ratting brigade", plan accordingly, and you should be fine.
Tanked bomber with a scram and a web sitting next to it would do the trick. Mainly because it's a unique situation that requires an interceptor stay still.You'd rely on backup for the kill. But again you'd be better off just not deploying one and dumping that SB pilot into another ratting ship. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2289
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:47:00 -
[42] - Quote
Joan Greywind wrote: Just like the catalyst is the bane of afk miners, so shall ceptors be for the semi-afk ratters.
Null tears, tasty.
What do I give a damn about ratters? I'd just like to add some risk back into their lives. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2289
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 09:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote: I think you fail to see the truth of it.
A strongly player supported concept is suggested by CSM and is implemented. Most people have a lot of fun with it (well, the ones who don't have their heads shoved firmly up their asses). Fail PvPers unable to either utilize interceptors properly by being creative and embracing target selection in order to inflict pain and weepy nullbears unable to cope with this new threat claim "imbalance" and, as you have done, declare the concept to be failed and unpopular.
Once again you are arguing against a straw man. You assume because I think something is broken means I either can't use it, or don't know how to use it effectively. I call it imbalance because they can't be killed without gross pilot error. I get to that conclusion by saying "How would I fly a Malediction given this particular subset of skills/hull bonuses etc". Now I don't fly a malediction due to atrophied missile skills and way too much invested in gunnery but I've been flying my stiletto in laps from curse to vale, passing through syndicate for giggles, and you know what? I'm impossible to kill in this thing. Oh sure one day I'll make a mistake due to alcohol and tackle a curse or something dumb like that, but barring stupidity? I'm going to bring it home every time. Every other hull I have has a little "Oh **** competent people are going to kill me no matter what I do" built in. But not this one.
I dislike that. It's weird that you dislike me disliking that. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2289
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 09:03:00 -
[44] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:What do I give a damn about ratters? I'd just like to add some risk back into their lives Then fly a ****ing interceptor! Christ man, you crack me up.
I do! and I meant risk into the interceptors life. A ship immune to being killed while just traveling from gate to gate annoys the hell out of me. I ***** about nullified T3's too, though they derp a bit more than a ceptor with nanos do thanks to align times.
illirdor wrote:im soooooo gonna fly around and dropping this baby just to **** ppl off XD
Admittedly so am I. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2289
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 09:15:00 -
[45] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:Once again you are arguing against a straw man. Repetition reinforcement goes both ways. SmilingVagrant wrote:I dislike that. It's weird that you dislike me disliking that. Not really. In this case it's an opportunity to attack the seemingly apathetic mindset put forth with a concrete implication; that the inability to exploit that which is presented to you is, in essence, intellectually bankrupt. a falsis principiis proficisci
Are you really arguing that I shouldn't think something is broken because I'm refusing to exploit something (That I am exploiting in reality)? Don't get me wrong I have no problem utilizing inherently broken mechanics to my advantage, but that doesn't stop me from objectively arguing that they are broken as well. That's not intellectually bankrupt at all. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2290
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 09:24:00 -
[46] - Quote
tiberiusric wrote:OMG you whining tw@ts. Big alliances trying to control eve again.
its ONLY 5% jesus christ! what is up with you. Dont use the ESS you ARE NOT FORCED to.
if you ratted for an hour and made 80mill you would be ONLY losing 4 million isk from what you would get now. big deal! and if you live in nullsec if losing 4 million isk is a problem for you, your doing it wrong.
Sorry if your botters will now lose a little more income!
get a god damn grip
posting with my main-main because i dont give a feck, this is getting out of hand
personally if ccp wanted to nerf nullsec they should of gone further and dropped it to 50% then the ESS would go up in scale the longer its there to 110%. this would of made it a far far better and interesting concept. At the moment the 5% is so small i wouldnt even bother deploying a ESS, so ignore it.
Dude like 95% of the botting in eve comes from the terrible highsec hellhole, and with the number of small alliance signatories on that thing posted I'd say this isn't "Big Goon" holding you down.
Not to mention I bet a bot would clock the ESS more efficiently than any goofy player would. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2292
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 09:25:00 -
[47] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
You know that this is a LIE. You know very well thatyou can make far far more isk per hour in 0.0. THe only place in high sec where you do near that level of isk per our is incursions. but those you cannot just get home and spend 30 mintues doing it. You need to get on wait list and wait for 2 hours before you start doing money.
If 0.0 is so much less productive than high sec? Why you guys fich so many wars for the income resources of 0.0?
SImplyu, this is a #!@#!@ excuse. 0.0 income is still 2-3 orders of magnitude larger than high sec (except commerce of course)
So is every L4 mission runner posting their isk/h after LP sales a liar or what? You'd have been arguably correct before the anom nerfs that took vindicator ratting away as a staple. Oh and exploration for complexes is up there too, but it's so heavily contested that it drops below "Worth doing" once you get more than a dozen or so people actively hunting in an entire region.
Honestly the best reason to live in null is the ego and the narrative. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2292
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 09:30:00 -
[48] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:The entire premise of what you have just delivered rests on the truth that something is inherently broken. First of all, nothing is "inherently" broken. Things break. When fabricated (implemented), they were "working as intended", because that was what was made available. It was designed that way..
And the weakest non argument yet out of our friendly neighborhood pedant who thinks he's a word smith. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2326
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 02:05:00 -
[49] - Quote
Jesus. Fighters already suck. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2327
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 02:28:00 -
[50] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Genseric Tollaris wrote:E-2C Hawkeye wrote:baltec1 wrote:Khergit Deserters wrote:LOL "Null not worth it anymore" "But... but... we were only out in null for the mission bounties! " "Forced into highsec" Did somebody throw a switch on a propaganda machine somewhere? Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of b.s.! Whats hard to get about this? You earn more in high sec with near perfect safety. Why would you chose null sec which offers the worst option? CCP must have different numbers than yourself. I'm betting the per capita income difference between the average null pleb and the average high sec pleb leaves the null pleb in front. The higher bounty generation in empire would be due to the much higher population turning over a lot more lower value rats. Just a guess on that, haven't seen numbers. There is a finite number of systems that allow more than 1 person to rat effectively at a time. Hilariously in my system, the ports spawn with 4x 1.2m bounty rats in military 1, and in military 2 (which is an entirely reliable event), and then at military 3 it changes over to almost always spawning the alternate spawn that has only 2 500k BS in the last spawn and has 2 waves of multiple elite frigates out of 4 waves total, AND is harder to tank. So in military 2, I get the necessary 2 ports to for 1 person to run 60m/hr, but in military 3, I don't, I have to run the 45m/hr forlorn rally point and I think the forlorn den is the best to go with it, because of how badly the ports go sour. (I brought a hyperion out here specifically to void the ports, but an hour of voiding the ports puts the system into military 3, meaning I just wasted a great deal of effort hauling a ship that is basically useless now unless I stop ratting for days). In military 4 I get the 2 hubs necessary for 1 person to run 60m hour, and in military 5, I probably have enough for 2 people to rat because there are 3 hubs - but military 5 probably requires 3 people ratting to actually hit it. which the system doesn't offer unless they aren't in the same TZ. Note that I easily blitz 60m/hr with a dominix running for FIO (which just has a basic gallente navy LP store), and I can blitz more than 100m/hr for sisters with a dominix. I don't need a billion isk in the ihub, I don't need to make a freighter run and 4 JF runs to set it up, I don't need to fuel a pos, and I don't need to warp into the pos and select a PVP ship everytime someone enters the system. ie TL;DR dominion isk making system is oriented towards an entirely different organisational structure than the dominion strategic system is, hence all the bitching, and hence the obvious observation that some 10 regions are now almost entirely populated by the renters who have organisations more suited to actually extracting some value out of the terrible flyover territory that makes up most of null.
I don't disagree with the last paragraph but a fully upgraded military five system in even fairly crappy sec can support more than three ratters unless you are specifically gimping your corps anom choice by sticking to one ratting ship type. I'm assuming Gurristas.
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2347
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 09:01:00 -
[51] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Anyone who actually stays in null after this (most of them will just leave), would be insane to risk 20% of their earnings for an extra 5% they won't see.
We won't leave, we just won't make money at home, I mean lets face it if the dominion sov system didn't get us running to NPC null/lowsec nothing else is going to do it. Taking someone elses hard earned stuff i simply too much fun. |
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