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Horus V
The Destined Drunken Hyena Association
84
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Posted - 2014.02.25 01:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
There is simply no sense of a mystery if scanning can be done so fast and all its just in your face! I know some ppl already asked this but I can't find any answer from CCP or anyone who would know the answer. Exploration does not feel like it should when you scan the entire system in just few seconds. Guys this "space" we are talking about here. Why everybody can find everything? Only pros with superb scanning skills and lots of practice should be able. V |
Linkxsc162534
Traps 'R' Us Bask of Fail
57
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Posted - 2014.02.25 05:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Horus V wrote:There is simply no sense of a mystery if scanning can be done so fast and all its just in your face! I know some ppl already asked this but I can't find any answer from CCP or anyone who would know the answer. Exploration does not feel like it should when you scan the entire system in just few seconds. Guys this "space" we are talking about here. Why everybody can find everything? Only pros with superb scanning skills and lots of practice should be able.
Well see, it USED to be that way you're looking for. The interface was a bit wonky, and your probes didn't form themselves up nicely/scale their ranges at the click of a button. It could take a noob several minutes to scan down a site, while a talented player could pull it off in a minute or so. I realize that there was a degree of making it easier for noobs to handle scanning. But it used to be a real player skill to quickly scan thigns down.
We also had Deep Space Scanner Probes, which I forget their original intention, but they were great for tracking down and ignoring large swathes of... I'll say, unwanted, sites (sometimes your in a WH, and you don't want to find the WHs, you're just looking for something else)
Humorously I find a lot of peopel claim that "the new system is better" though I know for a fact that WHers are having mixed feelings about it. Especially the lack of requirement to probe out mining spots anymore. And since WHers used to generally be the quickest at scanning, their superiority in that field has been cut down significantly, mainly due to the fact that their possible threats used to be much slower at hunting. |
Alundil
Sky Fighters
410
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Posted - 2014.02.25 06:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mixed feelings crew... Checking in
Check my sig. Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
6311
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Posted - 2014.02.25 10:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mixed feelings here too. I never had a problem with having to probe down sites and it taking skill or time. The issues with the older system I had were usability issues and dislike for DSPs, since they allowed instant system coverage and easymode cherry picking of sites. I also wanted mini-profession sites to act as proper professions, instead of just activating a module and just waiting.
In the new system CCP moved in the proper direction with the mini-profession sites for the most part. The hacking mini-game in archeology doesn't make much sense though, but for data sites it is fine. Where I see them failing was turning exploration from exploration towards catering to then non-explorers. They turned the horrible system wide probe, that you had to invest SP to unlock, to a free tool for every player. As bad as those probes were they required some specialization in exploration to get and the player to be sensible enough to take advantage off. By giving the same info for free CCP removed almost all sense of exploration from their game in one fell swoop. As a bonus it doesn't make much sense, that these hidden sites are not only immediately visible to every ship out there, but you even know their general location without putting any effort in to it. I can't even remember when was the last time I used an exploration probe with a scan range larger then 8AU, since the larger ranges are almost useless for exploration in the new system.
I'm not even upset that they made content available in this form to give non-explorers a nice easy way to get in to the profession. I hate that they reduced all exploration to that. They took a waist deep pool and instead of deepening it and creating a shallower entrance area for newcomers to dip their toes in, they reduced it all to a slightly shallower pool. It showed CCP's vision for exploration was not to make it deeper and more interesting or rewarding. It was to just dumb it down and casualize it to the point masses of new players could dip in it without any effort or skill. It is if they view the actual exploration and probing part of exploring as something distasteful that needs to be minimized and see exploration content more as public mission dungeons like a special sub-category of anomalies.
On the positive side, the whole exploration system is now so easy, that there is no way to go but up. The down side is, that since we just got an exploration "expansion", there is little hope of meaningful improvements for at least a few years.
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Ellendras Silver
My second corp
128
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Posted - 2014.02.25 10:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Horus V wrote:There is simply no sense of a mystery if scanning can be done so fast and all its just in your face! I know some ppl already asked this but I can't find any answer from CCP or anyone who would know the answer. Exploration does not feel like it should when you scan the entire system in just few seconds. Guys this "space" we are talking about here. Why everybody can find everything? Only pros with superb scanning skills and lots of practice should be able.
ok i am not CCP official but hey i do know the answer!
CCP wanted to expand exploring to a new level, and they failed.
there now you know FIX FORUMS |
Loki Feiht
Feiht Family Clan
171
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Posted - 2014.02.25 10:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Becuase it makes finding poorly created dungeons, sorry I mean "exploring" easier. More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content-áthread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858 |
Anariasis
Boris Johnson's Love Children Awakened.
42
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Posted - 2014.02.25 11:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Horus V wrote:There is simply no sense of a mystery if scanning can be done so fast and all its just in your face! I know some ppl already asked this but I can't find any answer from CCP or anyone who would know the answer. Exploration does not feel like it should when you scan the entire system in just few seconds. Guys this "space" we are talking about here. Why everybody can find everything? Only pros with superb scanning skills and lots of practice should be able.
Try living in a WH for some time and then tell me you wish scanning to take longer ;) |
Seliah
0mega.
30
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Posted - 2014.02.25 11:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Anariasis wrote: Try living in a WH for some time and then tell me you wish scanning to take longer ;)
That's not the point. Scanning shouldn't be a hassle, people should be able to do it quickly and efficiently. However, it should also be something that requires some skill. Right now, it's too easy to be a good prober, because the system has been simplified to its extreme. A "casual prober" with little experience shouldn't be able to be almost as efficient as an experienced wh resident who probes stuff daily.
The recent changes to the scanning interface / system has pretty much flattened the learning curve of probing techniques. Probing should still be as quick as it is now, but it should be harder to reach that kind of efficiency. |
Nag'o
From Our Cold Dead Hands The Kadeshi
57
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Posted - 2014.02.25 11:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
I used to play exploration and make a lot of ISK from it due to the lack of competition. My profits have been cut but I honestly can't complaim about the way the new system works. Remember you had to launch every single probe by activating the launcher? It was activate launcher, wait for cycle, activate launcher again... 8 times! Then you had to move every single probe to it's relative position before you could actually do your first scan. To a casual prober this isn't an issue, but when you have to do this at every system you want to scan it becomes a pita. I do think that the new scanning modules are too dumbed down to EvE though. It's a straight level up to 5 to get tech 2, and tech 2 are better than t1 in all aspects. I also don't like the hacking mini-game despite it being better than the old activate module to open can.
I heard that before the pre-Odyssey system there used to be an even harder system where you couldn't move the probes. You had to move your ship to where you wanted to drop a probe. Now imagine taking a whole hour in this system to scan a single anomaly only to find it is a drone site. Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality. |
Thirtythousand
36
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Posted - 2014.02.25 13:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
As a casual player, I agree with the above. I feel no need to improve probing skills beyond 3s as I can scan sites down in a covops ships in 30s on avg. Hunting someone? Usually one or 2 cycles after d-scan localization. With 3s! Not even good skills.
Can effectively run prof sites with 4s. Minor problems on really tough cans. But still huge payout sites are almost un failable.
It's just too easy. With mid range skills. I make more in a 30m fit covops ship exploring then in my old almost perfectly skilled 1.5b marauding bs running soe missions. I understand making thins more approachable but this is killing it. At least some sense of progression, or the best sites need much better skills+bonused ships. also maybe a delivery on the old hinted exploration cruisers. There are only tech 3 and stratios. Just saying. Support the updating of rookie ships! Join the discussion https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4222786#post4222786
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Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
204
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Posted - 2014.02.25 14:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Having played in WHs before and after the patch, I would much rather use the new system.
1. The old system of not being able to save formations was stupid, (obviously debatable, but my opinion). 2. This affords miners and PVE farmers no protection from someone want to just jump in and see what's going on. I'm pretty ok with this. 3. It took me weeks to get proficient at scanning, and I rarely traveled to new wormholes or left high/lowsec because the system was horrible. The new system makes movement between WHs, scanning sites, much better. Increased traffic means increased chance of PVP, discovery, and makes it more accessable to the general population.
The changes didn't dumb the system down, they brought in automation for efficiency. Which was needed. I look forward to their look at the industry UI, and the resulting "Now that I don't have to click 50 times to make a product I have more competition in the market that thinks the minerals they mine are free." |
Anariasis
Boris Johnson's Love Children Awakened.
42
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Posted - 2014.02.25 16:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
The old system wasn't so dumbed down though. Old system: Newer player with less experience and bad skills has to scan down all signatures. Older player: Launches 1 Deep Space probe (which needed astrometrics V), does 1 cycle with that, and instantly knows which sigs can be WHs, Gas etc. ;) |
Doireen Kaundur
Riftmage
46
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Posted - 2014.02.25 17:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Probing is not easy. First you have to find a planet with intelligent life. Then abuduct a native and subdue him. Next comes anesthetic (if any) and lubbing the probe.....
...need I say more?
It's a lot of work. Ask the abuductees on earth. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
78
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Posted - 2014.02.25 17:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
I spent ages getting deepscan probes, got 1 month of use out of them, (during which time, I logged in maybe 15 times...) I thoroughly approve of the reduction in clicking, dragging etc, with the use of the shift key, but I DID enjoy having to scan to try to find the signatures (except the one time I forgot to scan near the outer planet and got dropped....) |
Alundil
Sky Fighters
410
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Posted - 2014.02.25 21:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Anariasis wrote:Horus V wrote:There is simply no sense of a mystery if scanning can be done so fast and all its just in your face! I know some ppl already asked this but I can't find any answer from CCP or anyone who would know the answer. Exploration does not feel like it should when you scan the entire system in just few seconds. Guys this "space" we are talking about here. Why everybody can find everything? Only pros with superb scanning skills and lots of practice should be able. Try living in a WH for some time and then tell me you wish scanning to take longer ;)
I do and have for years. The pre Odyssey system was far preferable as it was something that took time and practice to become proficient at. Now..... Not so much. Scanning now is easy mode ie reduced skill or practice involved.... but this horse is dead, rotten and squishy from all the beatings over the months since Odyssey released. Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
Horus V
The Destined Drunken Hyena Association
84
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Posted - 2014.02.25 22:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Try living in a WH for some time and then tell me you wish scanning to take longer ;)[/quote]
I used to live in whs for long months and I was actually considered to be a good prober/scanner. this is not some kind of personal need just because I had some joy to find things quicker than others. I consider it as a broken mechanic in game like eve.
New players that has no skills and no experience should'nt be able to find things that vets finding and it even takes same amount of time and basicly no effort. Space needs exploration and exploration needs effort/skill if you know what I mean. I see most of people are actually agree just not CCP. Anyone I talked about this has exactly same opionion.
I understand that the way we are launching probes now is the way everyone likes but we need to find a solution to make it more meaningfull. Perhaps make it more skill intensive and add more skills that takes long months to train and also finding smallest signatures should be difficult even with maxed skills and rigs/modules/implants ect.... Also please take the smallest out of the Sensor Overlay. Keep only the "cheap" sites and stuff in there.
V |
00-Horizon
The Destined Drunken Hyena Association
0
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Posted - 2014.02.25 23:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Going to pitch in my 2 cents...In my opinion they did a 50/50 job with the new scanning method...They should of only changed the way the probes are managed and thats it. The rest should of stayed the same. Who ever thought of the sensor overlay should be fired. |
Horus V
The Destined Drunken Hyena Association
84
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Posted - 2014.02.25 23:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
00-Horizon wrote:Going to pitch in my 2 cents...In my opinion they did a 50/50 job with the new scanning method...They should of only changed the way the probes are managed and thats it. The rest should of stayed the same. Who ever thought of the sensor overlay should be fired.
Yeah 6yr olds now knows that there is something in space...a flashy thing in space maybe !? V |
Clementina
Coreli Corporation
137
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Posted - 2014.02.26 00:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
The new (3rd generation) system is clearly better from a user interface standpoint, but I can see why people would miss the old (2nd generation) system. You did have to know more about the theory of probing back then. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
300
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Posted - 2014.02.26 00:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
Simple really:
Premise 1: The best way to increase CCP cash flow comes from noobs as vets tend to use ISK to PLEX or already have long term subs. Premise 2: Noobs do not like challenges and want everything handed to them on a platter. Premise 3: Dumbing down exploration will not adversely effect the rest of EVE the way dumbing down missions or mining would.
Conclusion: Dumbing down exploration should = more CASH
Clearly not a valid argument but it seems to have been the logic used. |
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Horus V
The Destined Drunken Hyena Association
84
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Posted - 2014.02.26 11:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Simple really:
Premise 1: The best way to increase CCP cash flow comes from noobs as vets tend to use ISK to PLEX or already have long term subs. Premise 2: Noobs do not like challenges and want everything handed to them on a platter. Premise 3: Dumbing down exploration will not adversely effect the rest of EVE the way dumbing down missions or mining would.
Conclusion: Dumbing down exploration should = more CASH
Clearly not a valid argument but it seems to have been the logic used.
You might be right but have they consider that it gets boring quickly if the space exploration in a space game has nothing to do with actually exploring things hidden in space? So even noobs will pay for 1 month rather than staying longer and paying much more. There are many sci fi junkies out there and the idea of exploration in eve so advertised on their websites is what actually brings them in to the game. V |
Horus V
The Destined Drunken Hyena Association
84
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Posted - 2014.03.02 22:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Why!? Why!? Why!? V |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
1852
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Posted - 2014.03.02 23:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dear CCP Seagull:
Your Discovery Scanner is terrible. What was advertised as a way of adding a sense of mystery and the unknown to New Eden has done only the exact opposite. While there were several useful improvements made to the actual process of scanning, the changes overall did nothing except turn the mysterious into the mundane, the rewarding into the routine and the unknown into the uninteresting. Instead of lighting a glimmer in the darkness for the explorers of New Eden to chase, you have turned array after array of 1000-watt stadium lights on every dark corner, crack and crevice, leaving no mystery unrevealed.
Signed, Alvatore DiMarco
CEO, Capricious Endeavours Ltd |
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