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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
471
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Posted - 2014.02.26 00:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
What the balls are you doing to the Worm? What role is it filling? 50% damage bonus to TWO launchers?!
What happened? You all did spectacular on T1 frigates, you made T1 cruisers across the board useable. What changed at battlecruisers? Why didn't anyone notice the change at battleships? Why all of this super experimental crap? Why? Look, if you want Gurista ships to also bother with fitting missiles- you're going to need to give them at least one more launcher across the board, in addition to a damage bonus like that. Either that, or bump up that to a 100-125% damage bonus to these two damage types with two launchers, or 75%, or SOMETHING. Literally the only change I agree with for the Worm is the addition of PG and CPU- that'll at least open up new sorts of fits. |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
471
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 00:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
When are these changes going up on the test server? I have to look into the Worm; as it stands I do not agree with the offensive capabilities of the Worm and will not unless circumstances in actual gameplay end up changing my mind. Running through things in my head it still looks like it's not going to have the damage nor the defense to truly get a leg up over competing T2 ships (ie. the Harpy, in terms of defense)- I distinctly recall that the AF survivability buff a while back essentially put these two hulls literally right next to eachother in terms of raw shield HP. The ship won't be fun if it isn't capable, and right now it doesn't look like it's quite finished. Honestly, I'd accept what was happening now if it got just slightly more fittings, enough to accomodate a third launcher- and then got that third launcher hardpoint. I literally do not see the point of a 50% damage bonus to two launchers. |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
471
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 00:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:
Not bad != Being fun.
Keep the Worm as 5/10 drone shield tank frigate!
I strongly urge you to stop suggesting to change it back. I did actual numbermancy on some things- the Worm looks like it'll completely melt face within rocket range. I'm talking 214 DPS with my skills, no doubt more if you have the right implants. Slightly more tank than before, not to mention it's also getting faster, while staying the same (fairly light) mass. These drones are putting out ~111 DPS, will have 4800-5000something EHP and a signature radius of 25m in orbit. This could be a ship that revitalizes drone useage, SOMEWHERE, in New Eden. And it looks like my desire for a missile using shield brawler has come true. |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
471
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 00:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Kapytul Gaynez wrote:Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."? "Cuz..." it fun to use 5 drones with 5 spares? Why not change the new Worm to only use one drone with 600% bonus?
You may not even NEED spare drones, don't you see? These drones are going to have more EHP than heavies, while having significantly smaller sigs and travelling FAR faster. You'll still have a 'spare set' of drones given that the bay of the Worm will still be 25. |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
471
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:
I've already answered this, being better is different from being fun, and for me the fun of the Worm is the fact you can use 5 drones with 5 spare on a shield tanked frigate.
I don't know, the fact that if I'm right I'll be doing ~215 DPS while still having top tier tank in the frigate class is going to be more fun than the slightly anemic Worm of now.
The new Worm is, in terms of stats, objectively superior to the old one. More fitting, more DPS, (slightly) more tank, it's faster... |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
471
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Aglais wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:
I've already answered this, being better is different from being fun, and for me the fun of the Worm is the fact you can use 5 drones with 5 spare on a shield tanked frigate.
I don't know, the fact that if I'm right I'll be doing ~215 DPS while still having top tier tank in the frigate class is going to be more fun than the slightly anemic Worm of now. The new Worm is, in terms of stats, objectively superior to the old one. More fitting, more DPS, (slightly) more tank, it's faster... You don't seem to get it, i couldn't careless if the new Worm can do 300 dps, that's irrelevant for me, if i want to fly overpowered ships i would just go ahead and fly one. The fact that i can't use 5 drones and 5 spares ruin the fun of this ship for me.
Can I have yours then? |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
472
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 02:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dyscordia wrote:"WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 5m3 Drone Bay Capacity per level)"
Does this include rockets and light missiles? it's ambiguous the way it is written.
Thanks.
It's all frigate missile systems generally, if it'sjust "missile damage".
I'm glad they threw in Thermal damage too at least instead of just Kinetic, even though I don't like bonuses like this that much. I'll take this one, this once. |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
473
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 17:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dav Varan wrote: Really wouldn't wants to fly a multi million isk frig that has such terrible mobility and will get kited to death by a couple of scrub condors.
How about making the worm a fast drone kiter rather than a slow drone brawler. 5 drones is also more fun than 2.
A "couple of Scrub Condors" are going to get eviscerated by these drones. The Worm has near AF levels of tank, and it's drones are going to be ridiculously powerful and survivable. Furthermore- the Worm as a shield tanking missile/drone platform, that operates distinctly at close range, fills a role that does not currently exist in the game. Two or three of these will not be easily killed if their pilots know what they're doing. Not only that, but it's velocity is increasing, it's still really light... It's not going to be nearly as bad as you think.
Also what's with all the "the fun of the worm comes from being able to launch and micromanage five drones" people? |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
474
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 18:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:
There are many valid complaints. For instance the a Gallente skill giving a missile bonus.... If you can't see how that is wrong then you need to stay away from balance.
This is not a valid complaint given the hull it's on.
Remember that the Gallente did not collaborate with the Guristas to construct their ship line. The Guristas took Caldari ships, and revamped them. Who knows- maybe the handwaving for a Gallente skill giving a missile bonus is that they've incorporated systems that ordinarily augment hybrid turret damage into the missile bays (with modifications obviously), showing pirate ingenuity or somesuch?
I do not want the bonuses on the Worm to change just yet, and even moreso because someone thought that a bonus' origin "didn't fit with the lore", rather than "makes it OP as balls". Maybe the Nemesis was involved. Who knows. |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
475
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 19:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Crazy KSK wrote:Harvey James wrote: Gurista - ... -1 slot as per drone ships normally have .. so -1 high .. utility slot isn't that useful anyway - change the gallente bonus too drone damage bonus and leave drone HP too role bonus .. that way you can buff the drone tank without making drone damage too OP/ dominant over missile damage - role bonus should be the missile damage - stronger damage split between drones/missiles
yeah all drone ships have it so Gusrista's should tooyeah thats a good idea one should need to have gal frigate 5 to get the full damage bonus(gallente are no missile race either) while not hurting noobs too much the missile bonus is pointless imo those 50dps I happily trade for more tank or neuts every time
Bold Point 1: This is a garbage generalization applied mainly to T1 and T2 ships which I've just made a post about, and how pirate faction ships interact with them in terms of improvement. If Pirate faction ships are to be superior I see no better way to do that than to unlink them with the horrible malus of -1 arbitrary slot. (Though if you'll look at my previous post, I do think the third high should become a mid if anything does happen to it.)
Bold Point 2: I have done math. You are no longer doing a piddly 50DPS with missiles. Your two launchers are doing ~91 DPS. This is superior to the Punisher. That's without a BCS, too. If you slap on a BCS, you're doing 103. While your drones do ~111. The missiles on the new Worm are not useless- not by a long shot. You know how the Bellicose is a bit of a missiles/drones blend? Yeah. The Guristas ships are going to be kind of like that, with the balance tipped slightly more in favour of drones than missiles. Step out of the past, and look at the new ship without bias towards it's lackluster first iteration.
And for the love of ****stop trying to justify the removal of the missile bonus with "HURR DURR GALLENTE DONT INTO MISSILE U STUPID IF U THIKN THEY DO". This is a Gurista frigate. At least come up with a better argument than "but gallente don't use missiles". |
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Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
476
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 18:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Spr09 wrote:They look decent for the most part, with the exception of the worm. A ship with small 5 drones out and a 10% bonus to hp and damage makes it equivalent to having 7.5 drones out at one time. However, you need to be able to kill 5 drones for it's dps to drop to 0. With the worm, the 300% bonus with 2 small drones makes it equivalent to 8 small drones out at once, but small drones are extremely easy to kill, and killing one drone effectively halves the ship's dps.
Yes, but these two small drones have the EHP of a decently fit attack frigate with a sig radius that makes interceptors green with envy.
Good luck with killing them before they (and the Worm that launched them) kill you. |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
476
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 18:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dyniss wrote:The Worm changes and pretty much the entire line of Gurista pirate faction listed changes are stupid. Not only do you lose the ability to launch ewar drones effectively, but also logistical ones as well. And a kinetic missile bonus? WTF? I find it funny how CCP removed almost all the kinetic missile damage bonuses off the Caldari line of ships in favor of a missile rate of fire bonus stating that locking a single damage type into a weapon system was a stupid idea. Way to go... You are now effectively killing off the Gurista's missile damage and cutting their drone bay and bandwidth in half. Smaller drones may be fine with this change (hardly), but larger drones which are slow and easy to hit will still die quite fast. And when they do die you will quickly lose your effective damage output. Frankly if CCP decides to implement these stupid changes to some of my most favorite ships to use, I will be quickly selling them off in favor of something else.
1. And nothing of value was lost. ECM drones? On a ship whose purpose is missile+ drone damage? Dumb.
2. It's kin/therm, you know. Better than just kinetic but not as good as a blanket bonus to all.
3. This is hilarious. You think Guristas' missile damage is going to nosedive. Well let me tell you something. New Worm? About 83 DPS out of two launchers. Same range and DPS as a punisher with dual pulses and Scorch. As compared to like... 40-ish DPS from completely unbonused launchers now, which is garbage. Then you have maybe 150 dps coming out of two drones... With attack frigate EHP and microscopic sig radii...
4. Firesale all of your Gurista ships to me for 500k ISK a piece if you think they're going to be that awful.
I'm noticing a trend. Everyone criticizing the Worm doesn't actually understand the changes, and is only reacting to "THEY ARE CHUNKING THE DRONE BAY DOWN TO NOTHING AUGH THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A DRONE CARRIER WITH FIVE DRONES THAT I CAN MICROMANAGE BEAUSE I THINK MICROMANAGING FIVE 5% DAMAGE PER LEVEL OF GALLENTE FRIGATE DRONES IS FUN".
If you need to read over the changes more than once, do so- the Worm may actually be in a good, usable position after this. |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
480
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 00:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Lidia Caderu wrote:Quote:Role Bonus: 300% bonus to light combat drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity) Why cant you do same thing with tristan, give 20 bindwidth and +5% damage bonus, less cargohold, 30m3 for example, But give it one more medium slot?? cos its dull and homogenizes things ... also droneboats usually have -1 slot like the tristan has 9 ... the worm atm has 10 it shouldn't hopefully rise will see this error..
Are you serious? You think that a pirate faction ship should have the same arbitrary gimping that is used on T1/T2 ships, "because the rest have it"?
I will only vouch for one alteration of the Worm's slot layout, and that is making it 2/5/3. Ie. moving a high slot I don't see much use for into a much needed mid, giving it more options for close range (currently, it looks like it's almost going to be pigeonholed into LMLs and trying to kite, in some ways). That extra tank will work wonders, and fits well with Guristas having vast shield tanking potential. |
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