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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110577
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
ugh
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/reprocess-all-the-things "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1423
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Love everything there. Fantastic. GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour! |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110577
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
My "ugh" was for the needless complexity and length of the article.
I just have better things to do than trying to parse and understand with exactitude all that this implies (pretty much happens with every Dev Blog the past few years IMHO).
Obfuscation through overwhelming abundance of information, most indeed. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Qalix
Long Jump.
176
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:My "ugh" was for the needless complexity and length of the article.
I just have better things to do than trying to parse and understand with exactitude all that this implies (pretty much happens with every Dev Blog the past few years IMHO).
Obfuscation through overwhelming abundance of information, most indeed. It's necessary, not needless. In recent years, they've done a much better job of posting dev blogs that anticipate objections and common questions.
I actually find the last line of the blog the most interesting. The long awaited industry expansion is here! |
Kagehisa Shintaro
We Make Weapons Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
4
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'd just like to point out that Minmatar Refinery Outposts in Null Sec don't get a 50% Base Yield. They get 35%
http://puu.sh/7CEOT.jpg
We recently tested building one on the Test Server and no upgrades have been put in. Most Minnie outposts have their first upgrade put in to bring the Refinerty % to 40. And even then a max Refiner needs implants to get 100% Refining.
I'm all for making Refining/Reprocessing a Speciaility and in my opinion it already is. You invest a fair bit of training into your Refinery skills and while yes I agree most people propably stop the Ore ones at IV, Ice and Scrapmetal are nearly always taken to V to get the best benefit from them. Even then, using Compression techniques like 425mm Railgun Is we lose minerals when "compressing" them to move to high sec.
All in all I'm in favor of improving the lore and methods for mineral compression, but please open a feedback thread sooner so we can give some input. And please consider removing the Processing skills as requirements for the various Crystals, if Reprocessing is now the speciality, shouldn't your every day miners train dedicated extraction skills rather than processing skills to remove Ore from roids?
I'll be watching this thread and others related to this topic closely. I have erm, maybe 5 Reprocessor toons trained, so a lot of time invested into this particular aspect of Industry. (one rorqual pilot, various miners, 1 high sec refiner, 1 mobile character that moves around to reprocess crap from loot etc) |
Luna Deos
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's almost as if CCP wasn't playing their own game. I pretty much stopped reading after the justification:
Quote:Currently you can reprocess at a perfect 100% rate uniformly across New Eden, regardless of system or station.
Except, you know, and stations under 35% which you couldn't get perfect back even if you trains everything to 5 *and* had the best implant.
Which is to say, most nullsec outposts. You pretty much *need* that minmatar station so you have to build your infrastructure around this exact sort of thing.
But who needs facts. I just feel bad for the logistics folks, since they'll have to be jumping even more things around to compensate. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1423
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Luna Deos wrote:It's almost as if CCP wasn't playing their own game. I pretty much stopped reading after the justification: Quote:Currently you can reprocess at a perfect 100% rate uniformly across New Eden, regardless of system or station. Except, you know, and stations under 35% which you couldn't get perfect back even if you trains everything to 5 *and* had the best implant. Which is to say, most nullsec outposts. You pretty much *need* that minmatar station so you have to build your infrastructure around this exact sort of thing. But who needs facts. I just feel bad for the logistics folks, since they'll have to be jumping even more things around to compensate. I read that too but I took it as most of empire space.
You should keep reading to see how Null outpost upgrades will be better than empire. GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour! |
Virtutis Sahasranama
Interstellar Hollistic Agency Brothers of Tangra
5
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:I'd just like to point out that Minmatat Refinery Outposts in Null Sec don't get a 50% Base Yield. They get 35%
This was in a post above and went to reply and the post went away, but was going to agree - I read that part of the article and my first though was " did someone forget to tell that to the Minmatar Outposts?".
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Orisuko Narada
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.03.20 16:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
I do not understand philosophy behind new ore compression, there is no change in tab except +30% minerals (mentioned boost). That means that it is better to carry minerals from Arkonor instead Compressed Arkonor, and no ore ever get close to 425mm Railgun with compression ratio 1:28.5 - Veldspar is at 1:16.56, Spodumain 1:5.53, Dark Ochre 1:1.64. Since no corporation is able to mine 3.5B trit for titan alone, this means huge nerf for mineral transportation. Or is there anything I missed? |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3227
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Posted - 2014.03.20 16:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Orisuko Narada wrote:I do not understand philosophy behind new ore compression, there is no change in tab except +30% minerals (mentioned boost). That means that it is better to carry minerals from Arkonor instead Compressed Arkonor, and no ore ever get close to 425mm Railgun with compression ratio 1:28.5 - Veldspar is at 1:16.56, Spodumain 1:5.53, Dark Ochre 1:1.64. Since no corporation is able to mine 3.5B trit for titan alone, this means huge nerf for mineral transportation. Or is there anything I missed?
You didn't miss anything, we did: to add the new volumes for the compressed ores Working on that. |
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
168
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Posted - 2014.03.20 17:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Orisuko Narada wrote:I do not understand philosophy behind new ore compression, there is no change in tab except +30% minerals (mentioned boost). That means that it is better to carry minerals from Arkonor instead Compressed Arkonor, and no ore ever get close to 425mm Railgun with compression ratio 1:28.5 - Veldspar is at 1:16.56, Spodumain 1:5.53, Dark Ochre 1:1.64. Since no corporation is able to mine 3.5B trit for titan alone, this means huge nerf for mineral transportation. Or is there anything I missed?
Good catch I was wondering what I was missing and kept scanning the text with a nagging feeling that something was wrong. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2072
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Posted - 2014.03.20 17:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Luna Deos wrote:It's almost as if CCP wasn't playing their own game. I pretty much stopped reading after the justification: Quote:Currently you can reprocess at a perfect 100% rate uniformly across New Eden, regardless of system or station. Except, you know, and stations under 35% which you couldn't get perfect back even if you trains everything to 5 *and* had the best implant. Which is to say, most nullsec outposts. You pretty much *need* that minmatar station so you have to build your infrastructure around this exact sort of thing. But who needs facts. I just feel bad for the logistics folks, since they'll have to be jumping even more things around to compensate.
Bad interpretation is bad. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3229
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Posted - 2014.03.20 17:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Blog has been updated with new compressed ore volumes, and fixed typo with outpost reprocessing values on TQ. |
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Orisuko Narada
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.03.20 17:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Blog has been updated with new compressed ore volumes, and fixed typo with outpost reprocessing values on TQ.
Perfect, thank you very much. Now it looks like competitive to compressed guns. Still, guns could pack all mats in one package, I really hate to make tabs to calculate needed compressed ores - but that is life we live |
Luna Deos
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.03.20 17:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Blog has been updated with new compressed ore volumes, and fixed typo with outpost reprocessing values on TQ. Well, that went from awful to fantastic in record time.
That said, the statistician in me doesn't like the the idea of something like 86.8% (perfect station, perfect skills, perfect implants) being the new "100%". |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omen Industries -Entropy-
194
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Posted - 2014.03.20 17:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
So in bottom line can you please write down which skills\implants\station and such I need in order to get same amount of minerals I now get with 100% refining?
I really want to be prepared ahead of time and not get stuck without being able to refine my ores into profitable mineral quantity.
EDIT: Ok so we need Refining V Refining Efficiency V Specific Ore skill V 50% station 6.67 standings
In order to get 2.8% LESS minerals? massive timesink.... "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Luna Deos
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:Ok so we need [...] In order to get 2.8% LESS minerals? massive timesink....
I get 0.28% less, but yes. You're spot on. Looks like it's a way to make those spec skills have actual value, or a way to bring highsec to the same needs as null, since I had to train these all to 5 long ago. |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omen Industries -Entropy-
194
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Hmm... interesting I guess now minerals value will increase after that change due to the lack of miner refine same amounts. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Luna Deos
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Looks to be a bit of a run on the RX-80X markets as a result of this announcement.
Those are about to get a lot more demand. |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omen Industries -Entropy-
194
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Luna Deos wrote:Looks to be a bit of a run on the RX-80X markets as a result of this announcement.
Those are about to get a lot more demand.
hahahha we think the same I read this blog took shuttle and grabbed as many as I can for future selling purposes.. then I saw u can get them from LP store and gave up the idea :x "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
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Beta Maoye
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
A new market will emerge for high-sec POS owners with perfect reprocessing skills. Miners may want to pay for service of ore refinery..hm...reprocessing at player own POS. Manufacturer may want to pay for service of mineral compression in high sec POS. Is it possible to add reprocessing and mineral compression in business contracts to facilitate these transactions? |
Reyna Snoo
Chop-Shop Mining and Logistics
6
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Posted - 2014.03.20 19:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
;_; Good bye low sec capital manufacturing. Without a bonused outpost for reprocessing it just won't be profitable even if I setup the infrastructure to compress the ore myself. CCP, thanks for making my cap BPO investment worthless and removing the feasibility of my business. |
Volar Kang
Aliastra Gallente Federation
77
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Posted - 2014.03.20 19:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'm such a noob. When I first looked at the chart I didnt notice they changed the batch size and my first thought was they nerfed the crap out of mineral refining across the board. LOL.
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Chihiro Chugakusei
PillowBrigade Inc Heiian Conglomerate
51
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Posted - 2014.03.20 20:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
From a lore point of view I dont think that low sec stations should be any better/more efficient than high sec stations. Player owned stations sure, that I can understand, since they control and manipulate everything themselves. But why would a low sec npc station be any more capable than the high sec ones? Wouldn't it be the other way around? Wouldn't a nation or npc corporation invest in facilities in their CBD more, and not the ones that are in constant danger?
I think arbitrary differences in station ability that are related to security level, for the sake of balancing would be bad. Differences between stations, and between stations owned by different factions is a good idea, but I think drawing an explicit line between high and low sec, is bad and lore unfriendly. If you do this be sure to explain why, in game.
Keep it up, +1 |
Xander Delacroix
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
Now I understand CCP's stated objective of making reprocessing a specialised field with specialised skills. However, at current skill training times it will take over a year for a single character to get even close to a point where reprocessing is similar to what it is now. This is a year away from training all those other skills (i.e. the fun skills).
CCP must understand this, so the question is why are they doing it?
1. Everyone needs to make a reprocessing alt (good for CCP's coffers short term, but at the price of alienating potentially a large portion of their customer base). 2. Skills are going to get an overhaul, either reducing the multipliers on reprocessing skills considerably, or perhaps a complete revamp to the way that skills are trained as a whole (as was hinted at in the last set of CSM minutes from the Winter Summit).
I'm really hoping it's option 2, or something similar to it, because a LOT of players are going to suffer massive economic losses until they can get their skills up to par with the current training times if it's option 1. Some just won't bother if this is the case and may well use this as the impetus to take their internet gametime elsewhere. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2307
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Xander Delacroix wrote:Now I understand CCP's stated objective of making reprocessing a specialised field with specialised skills. However, at current skill training times it will take over a year for a single character to get even close to a point where reprocessing is similar to what it is now.
I'm guessing because you're counting all ore reprocessing skills to max compared to not even needing them leveled much now.
You could easily specialize in only certain ores and not even take near that long. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
kimirawr
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.03.20 22:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Am I reading things right... say if people were to compress ore before the expansion and wait for summer that it would refine into more minerals? (free minerals) |
Zetaomega333
HIFI INDUSTRIAL The Kadeshi
58
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Posted - 2014.03.20 22:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
What is the point of changing it so people cant hit 100% refine? Why is this a problem or goal? Module or ship refining i sort of get but you made your own solution with the adition of extra materials to the bpo's and this just seems a copout of changing the rest of the bpos and for doing less work. Adding refinery's to all the stations is a good idea and one long overdue but i just cant get around what the hell is wrong with hitting 100% refine, Mind you i dont have all my ore specs to 5 they are all sitting at 4 and most are 16 days each. thats a lot of training there.
So really what is your problem with people hitting 100% refine, i would think after the massive amount of training time people put being able to perfectly refine somthing would be ok.
Second thing is in the past the pos mobile refinerys were **** mainly due to the fact they didnt take into account reprocessing skills? is this still true or will they finally be able to. If not they will be just as worthless as before.
Oh i also have to ask why ccp thinks there are so many tier 3 upgraded stations? Iv seen 2 in my time in nullsec in over 2 years, they take somthing like 80 billion isk if not more to upgrade to thier 3 which is a huge problem, you cant build the upgrades you have to cart them through highsec wh's then go through the archacic process of upgrading them day by day as you can only do one act per a day. |
Nex Killer
Drunk3n Industry
51
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Posted - 2014.03.20 22:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
kimirawr wrote:Am I reading things right... say if people were to compress ore before the expansion and wait for summer that it would refine into more minerals? (free minerals)
I would assume so. |
Rahh Serves
Collective Industrial Confederation Silent Forge
0
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
why instant compressing i have the felling the pos module should need a fair amount of time and the rorqual should be the choice if you want fast compression
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