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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Ollie Rundle
170
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Posted - 2014.05.06 10:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
You've been given the answer, Miss Polehvia. That it is not the answer you wanted to hear as it represents a fact-based reality you are unable to reconcile with your own delusions of how you desperately wish things were is something I have no need to help you with. -á |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4611
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Posted - 2014.05.06 11:57:00 -
[32] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:A question, Mister Ixiris. Should I care that a criminal who has broken a law and has been judged to receive the death penalty objects to his sentence? I can't really answer that question, for one of two reasons. Either you're intentionally using an inappropriate comparison, or you genuinely consider being a civilian in one of the empires to be comparable to being a convict of a capital crime.
In the case of the former, you're being intentionally disingenuous and there's little point arguing until you stop. In the case of the latter, you're so toweringly, terrifyingly insane that there's little point arguing with you, full stop. Mane 614
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Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
561
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:39:00 -
[33] - Quote
Since it is clear neither of you wish for a discussion and are blatantly ignoring my questions then this conversation serves no purpose. If anyone else has any questions and would actually like to participate in a dialogue I welcome them. Other then that, this is finished. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4613
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:45:00 -
[34] - Quote
Either you think empire civilians are comparable to capital criminals, which is completely insane, or you're knowingly using a faulty comparison.
In that case, let me answer your question with a question - do you believe that civilian citizens of the empires are inherently guilty of some crime that renders a blatant and seemingly callous disregard for their personal preferences ethically justifiable? Just so we can skip the usual textwalls of prevarication and moral comparisons to which Nation apologists are usually prone, let me clarify that a simple "yes" or "no" answer will do. Mane 614
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Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
561
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
Why should you deserve a simple answer when I can't get a single simple answer out of anyone? |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4614
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:50:00 -
[36] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Why should you deserve a simple answer when I can't get a single simple answer out of anyone? Because I do not have the unenviable task of having to justify the comparison of civilians to capital criminals. Mane 614
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Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
561
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:52:00 -
[37] - Quote
My point with my question was this. What gives the empire cultures the right to inflict unwanted judgement upon people? |
N'maro Makari
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
422
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
You should get in the habit of finishing what you started.
You know, as opposed to; "You're all ignorant, why won't anyone listen to me!"
I think it's known colloquially as "Doing a Revan Neferis". Vherokior-á |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4614
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:55:00 -
[39] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:What gives the empire cultures the right to inflict unwanted judgement upon people? ... not having abducted vast numbers of unconsenting civilians and performing deeply unethical experiments on them for the purposes of then turning them into an army for use against their own countrymen? Mane 614
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Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
561
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Posted - 2014.05.06 15:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
N'maro Makari wrote:You should get in the habit of finishing what you started.
That cannot happen without effort from both sides of the discussion. I've tried several times to get Ollie to aknowledge that every Navy fires on those loyal to them if they trespass in a military area but he keeps skipping past that point and going "Grr, Nation bad" despite no difference between Nation or the State in this respect. I am not sure if he has some sort of mental block preventing him from acknowledging a point a support of Nation makes or what his issue is.
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:What gives the empire cultures the right to inflict unwanted judgement upon people? ... not having abducted vast numbers of unconsenting civilians and performing deeply unethical experiments on them for the purposes of then turning them into an army for use against their own countrymen?
So glassing our planets you get a pass on, is that how it works? |
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Ollie Rundle
172
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Posted - 2014.05.06 15:18:00 -
[41] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Since it is clear neither of you wish for a discussion and are blatantly ignoring my questions then this conversation serves no purpose. If anyone else has any questions and would actually like to participate in a dialogue I welcome them. Other then that, this is finished.
Again Miss Polevhia, I answered your question. You simply did not like the response. And so you have snatched up your ball and stormed off towards home with your pants in a bunch.
No matter. Given past experience and the lack of demonstrable reward that actually comes from slaving yourself to Sansha Kuvakei it will probably only be a few months before your ego needs to be massaged once more and yet another 'Clarifications'-style vanity thread appears.
A'voir until then. -á |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4618
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Posted - 2014.05.06 15:42:00 -
[42] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:So glassing our planets you get a pass on, is that how it works? Firstly, tu quoque or argument to hypocricy is a logical falacy. Citing the moral or logical failings of others is not a valid argument against one's own moral or logical failings.
Secondly, there's no reliable evidence of widespread "glassing" by coalition forces. This is an argument mainly used by Nation apologists who provide little further evidence to back it up. Coalition military action was mainly focused on spaceborne targets related to Nation's industrial backbone and military forces, because these were relevant targets. The civilians in Sansha's Nation - i.e. the True Citizens - were almost entirely irrelevant, since they were largely artists, scientists, architects, thinkers and other assorted intelligensia for whom the burden of menial labour and military service the True Slaves had been specifically created to alleviate in the first place. In point of fact, the civilians were even more irrelevant to the military of Sansha's Nation than they are in conventional societies.
Thirdly [link]:
GalNet Article: Sansha's Nation wrote:Since the revelation of SanshaGÇÖs twisted experiments came out into the open, the Nation had lost most of its inhabitants. Only the fanatics and the True Slaves remained. The vast majority of civilians had abandoned Nation before the coalition even launched its attack, and the True Slaves had no choice in the matter. The only individuals with personal agency who remained were people who were very much aware that they were engaged in support of a society that was engaging in widespread abuse of human rights and unethical scientific experimentation - I imagine their mindsets were not particularly different to your own.
So, the irrelevant canard of the coalition's own ethics aside, I ask you again - do you consider empire civilians to be inherently guilty of a crime that justifies ignoring their basic human rights and preferences? Yes or no. Mane 614
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Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
563
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Posted - 2014.05.06 15:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:...do you consider empire civilians to be inherently guilty of a crime that justifies ignoring their basic human rights and preferences? Yes or no.
Basic human rights vary from culture to culture. By your definition of basic human rights and preferences?
Yes.
Everyone stop the presses. Someone in this thread gave a straight and direct answer. We must all write this down in our diaries. |
Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Imperial Outlaws.
748
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Posted - 2014.05.06 15:47:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ollie Rundle wrote:
Again Miss Polevhia, I answered your question. You simply did not like the response. And so you have snatched up your ball and stormed off towards home with your pants in a bunch.
Not going to take sides or anything, but you haven't. You've missed the point she tried to made by miles and then, when asked again, stood there and watched it ride into the sunset. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. |
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
563
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Posted - 2014.05.06 18:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
I would like to state that with Ollie Rundle's logic I have proven the Amarrian Empire's loyalty to Sansha's Nation by flying in formation without being shot at by their military frigate. Thank you and have a nice day. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4620
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Posted - 2014.05.06 18:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Basic human rights vary from culture to culture. By your definition of basic human rights and preferences?
Yes. Then you are, indeed, as I previously speculated, completely insane. Mane 614
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Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
564
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Basic human rights vary from culture to culture. By your definition of basic human rights and preferences?
Yes. Then you are, indeed, as I previously speculated, completely insane.
Sorry, can't hear you over all the Amarr Victor we keep shouting over here. |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
378
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:21:00 -
[48] - Quote
*popcorn and beer* The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1058
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Posted - 2014.05.06 21:03:00 -
[49] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Basic human rights vary from culture to culture. By your definition of basic human rights and preferences?
Yes. Then you are, indeed, as I previously speculated, completely insane. Sorry, can't hear you over all the Amarr Victor we keep shouting over here. It is a peak of hypocrisy when Ixiris calls someone insane. |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
379
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Posted - 2014.05.06 21:53:00 -
[50] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Basic human rights vary from culture to culture. By your definition of basic human rights and preferences?
Yes. Then you are, indeed, as I previously speculated, completely insane. Sorry, can't hear you over all the Amarr Victor we keep shouting over here. It is a peak of hypocrisy when Ixiris calls someone insane. No, the peak of hypocrisy would be you calling someone a hypocrite.... The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
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Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
567
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Posted - 2014.05.06 22:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
*popcorn and phanta* |
Ollie Rundle
175
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Posted - 2014.05.06 22:41:00 -
[52] - Quote
Unfortunately you have done little to prove that loyalty to Sansha Kuvakei (from anyone) is rewarded, despite your bombastic assertions that it is. Do keep trying though. Failing unequivocal evidence to support your claim you do have an eternity to find out how to twist the right words into a fiction that will satisfy not only your own delusions but those of all the other desperate and fearful souls who might flock to his Nation's banner. -á |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1060
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Posted - 2014.05.06 22:46:00 -
[53] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Basic human rights vary from culture to culture. By your definition of basic human rights and preferences?
Yes. Then you are, indeed, as I previously speculated, completely insane. Sorry, can't hear you over all the Amarr Victor we keep shouting over here. It is a peak of hypocrisy when Ixiris calls someone insane. No, the peak of hypocrisy would be you calling someone a hypocrite.... And THAT goes from a gallentean. R-right. |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
379
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Posted - 2014.05.06 22:51:00 -
[54] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote: And THAT goes from a gallentean. R-right.
Did you just stutter? The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1060
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Posted - 2014.05.07 03:40:00 -
[55] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote: And THAT goes from a gallentean. R-right.
Did you just stutter? Negative. |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
382
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Posted - 2014.05.07 17:01:00 -
[56] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote: And THAT goes from a gallentean. R-right.
Did you just stutter? Negative. Riiiight, ok. And, yes, THAT did come from a Gallentean. Who else (aside from just about everyone) would call you a hypocrite? The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
ValentinaDLM
Zaratha Zarati Shaktipat Revelators
522
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Posted - 2014.05.08 07:51:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ollie Rundle wrote:Unfortunately you have done little to prove that loyalty to Sansha Kuvakei (from anyone) is rewarded, despite your bombastic assertions that it is. Do keep trying though. Failing unequivocal evidence to support your claim you do have an eternity to find out how to twist the right words into a fiction that will satisfy not only your own delusions but those of all the other desperate and fearful souls who might flock to his Nation's banner.
I do very much enjoy it when you make a response with a quote, that actually does nothing to address what you quoted. You skills at evading anything that doesn't fit with your preconceived notions of the Nation are rather stunning. You still seem stuck on these "rewards" and if you are really that worried look up Surin Efur and talk to him, he seems willing to work with just about anyone. I promise you that if you do what he asks, you will be rewarded.
Also, I must say you seem terrified at the thought of people thinking differently than you do, is it really so hard to understand that the Nation is not the abhorrent monster under your bed that you wish it to be? |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1063
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Posted - 2014.05.08 11:09:00 -
[58] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote: And THAT goes from a gallentean. R-right.
Did you just stutter? Negative. Riiiight, ok. And, yes, THAT did come from a Gallentean. Who else (aside from just about everyone) would call you a hypocrite? In fact, only gallenteans and their bootlickers. Add to them those, who work against the State and disrespect Tibus Heth, but that alone makes them gallentean bootlickers. |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
386
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Posted - 2014.05.08 15:47:00 -
[59] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote: In fact, only gallenteans and their bootlickers. Add to them those, who work against the State and disrespect Tibus Heth, but that alone makes them gallentean bootlickers.
Good to know that the entire Caldari government is nothing more then Gallentean bootlickers. The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
Nick Shale
40
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Posted - 2014.05.09 02:41:00 -
[60] - Quote
There is a fundamental reason for our inability to implement a system in which we can live in peace and happiness with ourselves, and few understand what the problem is. We want to be good and do well, but we can't find a way to change the basic nature within us that holds us in evilGÇÖs grip.
Is it in us to direct our own nature?
If so, then we should have done so long ago. Utopian ideas have always included restructuring our environment to effect a change in our nature. That man by controlling his environment will create for himself a better world by making a just system of government, engineering a fair social system, supplying all physical needs through an equitable economic system and even equitably redistributing space, hoping a better chance of somehow changing human nature for the better. This, of course, is the crux of the matter.
If man chooses to live without the benefit of the revealed knowledge, man is left to devise his own societies, civilizations and philosophies with the inevitable consequence visionaries will adopt the idea that the end justifies the means resulting in war and conquest to impose their visions upon less-enlightened people. Much tribulation has come on the world because true believers wanted to experiment with their view of the way the universe should be.
When man's nature is changed from within, man's environment will also change. When man's nature is changed from enmity toward Truth, to one that seeks it, only then will the ever-worsening problems of society change for the better, not the other way around.
Nickolas Shale Sophist |
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