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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3984
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Posted - 2014.05.28 16:28:00 -
[91] - Quote
IceAero wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:[ Nikk Narrel wrote: Doesn't this rather, force them into a role defined by player cooperation, rather than individual control?
What is wrong with individual control? They are often bought and paid for by an individual and already difficult and dangerous to manage. Why would we want to force them into a role defined by player corporations? Who says this is? It's just forcing an individual to maintain a POS where they can stick their super. If they want to go solo, that's fine, but they gotta have a POS to stay safe. And if they join a corp, then they are going to have the same situation.
Most of the super pilots I know (especially titan pilots), already maintain a POS so they can safely log in and operate their super.
What this suggestion does, is make protecting that POS 100% mandatory or they will lose their super. Furthermore, since the POS RF timer is less than 2 days, protecting that POS is a MAJOR commitment. |
IceAero
Shadow. DARKNESS.
19
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Posted - 2014.05.28 16:40:00 -
[92] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:IceAero wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:[ Nikk Narrel wrote: Doesn't this rather, force them into a role defined by player cooperation, rather than individual control?
What is wrong with individual control? They are often bought and paid for by an individual and already difficult and dangerous to manage. Why would we want to force them into a role defined by player corporations? Who says this is? It's just forcing an individual to maintain a POS where they can stick their super. If they want to go solo, that's fine, but they gotta have a POS to stay safe. And if they join a corp, then they are going to have the same situation. Most of the super pilots I know (especially titan pilots), already maintain a POS so they can safely log in and operate their super. What this suggestion does, is make protecting that POS 100% mandatory or they will lose their super. Furthermore, since the POS RF timer is less than 2 days, protecting that POS is a MAJOR commitment.
You have to protect it now, or else when you log back in the POS won't be there.
With OP's idea (and my introduction of a log-off timer). You get the following:
If you're going to be logging back in with 2 days, then everyone sees your super sitting there, but you're safe so long as you're back before the RF timer is up.
If you're not going to be there for 2+ days, then you start a, for example, 24 hour timer to log-off your titan. Everyone can see that you're doing this, and it invites them to attack the POS. IF they blow it up, you don't lose your titan, you just gotta be careful about logging back in.
Basically, you can't hide your active supers.
Is this really different than how people operate their titans at POSs currently? Under OPs idea you just are no longer safe logging off in space. (and remember you can set your emergency warp location to the POS) |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4242
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Posted - 2014.05.28 19:02:00 -
[93] - Quote
Wouldn't it be interesting, to keep these mega-boats in the game, but allow them to mount a cloak that remained active after they logged out?
To consider a proposal that the ship must be vulnerable, it should also be considered how to protect it so as to mitigate this risk.
It could be a burdensome thing, with 100% speed reduction, and full denial of off grid sensor use. (Compared to the regular cloak that doesn't remain active offline, but allows active sensor use otherwise)
Maybe even something that fit into a rig slot, and only became active while the ship was 'off-line'.
The idea being, the ship would have a small chance of being located, and captured. Depending on how well it was hidden, the odds of winning some lottery might be higher.
Just a thought. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
38
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Posted - 2014.05.29 10:17:00 -
[94] - Quote
IceAero wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
A POS can be destroyed, easily, within 2 days. Have you ever gone two days without playing this game? Most normal people often have RL engagements that limits their playtime to reasonable hours.
Furthermore, a POS can by bypassed: You can bump a ship out of a POS. There are ALWAYS members of a corp that can offline and/or take things from a POS (CEO, Directors, anyone with config starbase, and those with take roles).
In the end, this is a pretty daft proposition (as is). I've said my part, and we all know that CCP would never implement this terrible idea.
Did my ideas not address both of these points? First, you wouldn't lose the ability to safely log your ship out, just be forced to do it at a specific POS and with a timer. If you're going to forward deploy your supers, then you're taking a risk. You either need to protect the POS where you stuck them, retreat them to POS where they can be safely logged off, or somehow make that POS enable them to safely log off after a timer and invite everyone to attack that POS in the meantime to prevent you from having a protected location to bring them back to. And you don't have problem with bumping if they can be anchored. And you can prevent anyone but yourself from unanchored them AND prevent from POS from being offlined while supers are anchored until after a 24 hour timer to add a layer of protection from rogue actors in the corp. (OR at least SOME mechanism must be possible to prevent someone from simply opening the POS at whim to let all the supers be taken or destroyed) Why? If you have awox in your corp with these kinds of rights, sucks for you. HTFU?
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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2680
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Posted - 2014.05.29 11:18:00 -
[95] - Quote
Anya Dyonas wrote:The basic premise here will center around the idea that Supercarriers and Titans should not disappear when the pilot logs off.
Now, that you are angry and confused, hear me out on this.
Supers and Titans cannot dock, through the theory that 'they are too big to dock'. The intent of the game designers was that this vessel should always be in-play. It is so valuable, and so special, that you should have to work to keep it. However, this mechanic was easily bypassed by the creation of Log-off Alts. And, fair enough. I would do the same as a super capital pilot. Store your vessel in a place that is infinitely safe and secure forever. But, therein lies the problem. This is the complete opposite of the design intent. Rather than being the most vulnerable of vessels, they are the LEAST vulnerable of all vessels. They only EXIST when the pilot is reasonably certain of security and victory. Otherwise, they are hidden in oblivion, safe and secure forever.
The game has a POS module designed specifically for storing supers and titans. This was intended to give the pilots a real place to dump their supers when they are not in use, rather than relying on Log-off Alts. Obviously, this a far less secure way to store the vessel, so it's use has been extremely limited.
With the suggestion from the devs that 'all things should be destructible', then that surely includes stations built by players in Sov space. When those stations blow up, surely everything within them will also be permanently destroyed. It seems unfair that all of the assets of a non-super pilot could be lost forever while super pilots have their most valuable assets stored in an invincible and invisible location.
So, the solution is to have all supers and titans forever 'in-play'. That means they never disappear from space. You can store them in the previously mentioned POS module to keep they from prying eyes and in the safety of a POS RF timer, but logging off with them in-space will simply result in the vessel staying right there, in space, idle.
I know most super pilots will scream 'shinanigans' at this suggestion. Heck, you probably would never have trained or bought the vessel if you didn't know you could secure it via Log-off Alt when you don't want to play with it. And, that is a fair reaction. Such a change of game mechanic would definitely be pulling the rug out from under you. However, this should be the price of having a super capital ship. It should be a chore. It should be a burden. It is not a weapon. It is a SUPER weapon. Thus is should come with extra burden and responsibility to own.
Now, hear me out on the applications in alliance wars, and think of the impact it could have. Suddenly, you cannot just invade a region of null and have these giant armies of supers on a whim. You need to work out the logistics for front-line POS structures to house your army of supers. That army of supers is vulnerable AFTER the battle, when you would otherwise just log them off.
Your supers are always vulnerable, but so are your enemy's. That means if an ally back-stabs you, then you can hit them where it hurts later, getting proper revenge.
Having the supers always in-play will change the commitment and investment of attacking with supers, and the logistics of defending space that houses supers. It will raise questions like "Is it worth the burden to involve the supers in this fight/campaign?" It will push the consequences of people's actions in the game to a new level of possibilities, which is exactly the 'sand box environment' eve is based on.
I don't see this proposal demanding that cheap sub-caps / capitals remain in play when their pilots logoffski without engagement timers.
So to hell with RIfters online.Get out.
-1 Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Wedge Rancer
Bookmark Both Sides Exit Strategy..
3
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Posted - 2014.05.29 11:19:00 -
[96] - Quote
+1 |
IceAero
Shadow. DARKNESS.
20
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Posted - 2014.05.29 13:19:00 -
[97] - Quote
Maybe a slightly more plausible implementation of the general idea, without introducing any new POS mechanics, is to have supers only disappear when logged off inside a force-field? |
Anthar Thebess
478
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Posted - 2014.05.29 13:34:00 -
[98] - Quote
IceAero wrote:Maybe a slightly more plausible implementation of the general idea, without introducing any new POS mechanics, is to have supers only disappear when logged off inside a force-field?
I think all those recent ideas are because supers are bit abused lately by big power blocks. But current CSM will not allow to change it. Jump Fuel Usage Based on Ship Size Interdiction Siphon Unit |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4244
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 13:35:00 -
[99] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:I don't see this proposal demanding that cheap sub-caps / capitals remain in play when their pilots logoffski without engagement timers.
So to hell with RIfters online.Get out.
-1 I miss seeing you in the forums more often, Miss Asuka.
I agree, there should be a balancing aspect that says not just these supers and titans get locked online, but all ships.
Give those outposts and cloaks some real value, and make searching for sleepers mean more than just the NPCs... Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Juan Thang
Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity
29
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Posted - 2014.05.29 13:35:00 -
[100] - Quote
This is a good idea, far more supers are in play than ccp ever intended, they need to be more vulnerable.
Also with stations being destructable there needs to be less supers so you dont get super blobs roaming and blowing up stations left right and centre. |
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1465
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Posted - 2014.05.29 20:47:00 -
[101] - Quote
For all you super owners who are worried about the stress of owning one after something like this were implemented: did you think about how much easier it would be once you don't have one anymore?
I think we're just trying to cut you guys some slack. That's all. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Juan Thang
Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity
30
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Posted - 2014.05.30 09:43:00 -
[102] - Quote
Also....
Super capitals have a max concuront users of 10, which is there because of what the op suggests but it is never used because you can just log them. So for that intended feature to be used this needs to happen |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4250
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 13:05:00 -
[103] - Quote
Juan Thang wrote:Also....
Super capitals have a max concuront users of 10, which is there because of what the op suggests but it is never used because you can just log them. So for that intended feature to be used this needs to happen Can you clarify this, please?
I was not familiar with this. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
1061
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Posted - 2014.05.30 13:17:00 -
[104] - Quote
Daniella Moonstorm wrote:+1 for the idea, +1 for the flame war. +1 for super owners being unable to go on holiday ever again....... Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
44
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Posted - 2014.05.30 13:56:00 -
[105] - Quote
Supers should not be player owned period. It should be corporation asset. If you want to have it owned by you, fine, then take care of it. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1473
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 22:03:00 -
[106] - Quote
Walter Hart White wrote:Supers should not be player owned period. It should be corporation asset. If you want to have it owned by you, fine, then take care of it. This exactly. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Llyona
Lazerhawks
46
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Posted - 2014.06.01 15:00:00 -
[107] - Quote
Juan Thang wrote:This is a good idea, far more supers are in play than ccp ever expected
Fixed that for you.
I wouldn't mind ships always being in space, so long as all ships stayed in space. I would even go so far as to make it so no one can log off in stations. I'm also all for destructible stations in every security level of space as well. EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4254
|
Posted - 2014.06.02 13:27:00 -
[108] - Quote
Llyona wrote:Juan Thang wrote:This is a good idea, far more supers are in play than ccp ever expected Fixed that for you. I wouldn't mind ships always being in space, so long as all ships stayed in space. I would even go so far as to make it so no one can log off in stations. I'm also all for destructible stations in every security level of space as well. No to this aspect.
One of the key points in balancing supers was that they were too big and powerful to enjoy the same protections offered to smaller ships, like docking safely in outposts.
Ships all vanishing from the game itself neutralizes this distinction, and makes it a meaningless detail in many ways.
I think all ships should remain in game, but keep the current options for defense they already have, such as being docked or cloaked.
Dipping out in hostile space should not be safe, simply because you logged before others could react. I feel that devalues POS, Outposts, as well as cloaks, in the game... by simply giving for free the defense they were intended to be valued for.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Tabyll Altol
Caldari Campers
2
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Posted - 2014.06.02 14:10:00 -
[109] - Quote
+1 for the idea. |
Naglerr
235MeV Waterboard Comedy Tour
7
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Posted - 2014.08.24 23:13:00 -
[110] - Quote
Bump. Still a good idea. |
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2115
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Posted - 2014.08.25 00:14:00 -
[111] - Quote
Love your thoughts.
*grabs popcorn* ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Angeal MacNova
LankTech Masters of Flying Objects
169
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Posted - 2014.08.25 03:41:00 -
[112] - Quote
+1 for the suggestion
+1 for all the real EVE carebear complaints. |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
148
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Posted - 2014.08.25 03:53:00 -
[113] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:+15 for the idea, +2 for the tears. No exaggerations here.
The easy way to ease players into the new system would be to keep supers invisible until they log in for the first time after the change.
I'd like to see people be able to exit their supercapital ship. One change to make that possible would be to allow supers to be owned by a corporation, and for the ship to always be locked except to those who have authorized access, with corp directors who have the role able to force-eject a ppilot from a corp-owned super.
I think all capital ships should be locked when ejected in space, and should require a successful hacking attempt for an unauthorized pilot to board them.
Director level spies taken to a new level, grand theft aeon
Is it bad if your friend says "that was a Metaphor" and you say "Meta 4? Get Tech II or faction" ?I love the sound of silent explosions in Space.-á |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2487
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Posted - 2014.08.25 05:57:00 -
[114] - Quote
Read the first two pages and then skipped to the end.
The solution is that all supercaps should be destroyed and their contents moved to the pilot's hangar in the nearest lowsec station.
Remove all supercap BPOs and BPCs from the game as well.
Death to all supercaps - the true cancer in EVE. |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
519
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Posted - 2014.08.25 12:23:00 -
[115] - Quote
So now all small corps and alliances need to leave their supers in lowsec or they are dead. Good job fixing nullsec.
Edit: went to second page to see if it's the same thread, yep I already posted this.
Whatever.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything. |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
234
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Posted - 2014.08.25 13:42:00 -
[116] - Quote
Create a parking space inside a POS by anchoring cheapest possible mods around it so that no one can bump it through the gaps.
If needed for a bridge, people can go inside the POS and keep at range. If needed in a fight, just jump off and then move a wall about when you need to park it back in.
Instead of making them invulnerable to bumps and attacks via logging off, they're now immune until the POS is destroyed, meaning you'd need to hellcamp the POS until you can destroy it just to get a chance to down a super. Smaller groups cannot do this making supers once again invulnerable to surprise attacks.
Next idea. |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
519
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Posted - 2014.08.25 13:49:00 -
[117] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Create a parking space inside a POS by anchoring cheapest possible mods around it so that no one can bump it through the gaps.
If needed for a bridge, people can go inside the POS and keep at range. If needed in a fight, just jump off and then move a wall about when you need to park it back in.
Instead of making them invulnerable to bumps and attacks via logging off, they're now immune until the POS is destroyed, meaning you'd need to hellcamp the POS until you can destroy it just to get a chance to down a super. Smaller groups cannot do this making supers once again invulnerable to surprise attacks.
Next idea. If that's in null they can still hellcamp it. Not saying you can't just catapult it out by changing PW.
Also Eve is not to be trusted with collisions eventually it too will get a nasty tick and fly out.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything. |
James Nikolas Tesla
The True Patriots of New Eden
158
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Posted - 2014.08.25 13:54:00 -
[118] - Quote
OP, feel free to fill in the blank on this +1 check. Elite PVP - The use of huge blobs, capital ships, and metagaming to defeat a target you already significantly outnumbered. -masternerdguy |
Phox Jorkarzul
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
104
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Posted - 2014.08.25 14:40:00 -
[119] - Quote
I can get behind this idea, I'll Bump it to the top/. Blasters for life
https://neverpheedthetroll.blogspot.com |
Xarh
Ankh Brothers of Tangra
0
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Posted - 2014.08.25 15:28:00 -
[120] - Quote
+1 |
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