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ahllamaar
Front Line Logistics The Volition Cult
1
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Posted - 2014.06.11 10:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi, I know this is a subject that periodically comes around, but trying to bumo it again as it seems a glitch in the game mechanic.
You know the issue.... alt chars that stay days and days in a system cloaked avoiding any other activities by lots of active players.
With no way of getting the AFK guy it is unfair to a lot of people. The point is not to make cloaking modules easy to intercept, but to avoid AFK char that block activities.
What about introducing something to prevent AFKing while cloaked? for example, after a certain reasonable amount of time with no mouse activity (1 hour?), there is chance for the module to deactivate. This could be reasonable, in my opinion, and would not impact other aspect of the game that could need of cloaking for a long time.
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2695
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Posted - 2014.06.11 11:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
What about introducing something to prevent posting the same ides five hundred times? Perhaps a forum ban for someone who cannot be bothered to use the 'search' feature? |
Mag's
the united
17380
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Posted - 2014.06.11 11:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Reported as redundant and/or reopened post.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Owen Levanth
Federated Deep Space Explorations
173
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Posted - 2014.06.11 11:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:What about introducing something to prevent posting the same ides five hundred times? Perhaps a forum ban for someone who cannot be bothered to use the 'search' feature?
At this point I've seen this tired argument often enough I can only assume people like the OP are lazy or dumb. I'm nice here and say he is lazy.
So yeah, a forum ban may be a bit harsh, but people like the OP should at least get a warning and then a ban only if they keep up with reposting their stupid ideas. |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
68
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Posted - 2014.06.11 11:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well, haven't dug this up in a while ... guess its time again
Please post here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699&find=unread
Cheers |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
775
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Posted - 2014.06.11 11:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
This is a thorny issue.
As I've explained in other threads on the same thing I can and have proved that with only some household items I can make my mouse spoof slight and random movement. This would utterly negate the AFK by lack of mouse movement idea, unfortunately. There's no point in the devs implementing something which can easily be avoided to perpetuate the situation which the dev's are trying to avoid.
This is a thorny subject. Whilst I have sympathy for those affected there are ways around the issue with current game mechanics as discussed in pretty much every other thread about AFK cloaky campers. Pretty much every possible counter CCP could implement has also been discussed but concerns about abuse and potential workarounds have dogged any attempt by the community to resolve what is a very contentious part of the game.
The best thing you can do is make your enemy waste their money by carrying on with your activities but in groups of pvp fit ships instead of solo. Your isk making ability drops a bit but you can defend yourself. Or you do it solo in non-bling ships making sure you're aligned and paying attention so you can insta-warp. Alternatively, go to the system next door where there aren't any afk cloakies. If he/she really is AFK they won't follow you and will stay in an empty system. If they follow you, you know they're not AFK.
In conclusion, there are already plenty of ways around the issue for those with imagination and the ability to adapt to changing situations and short of a sensible solution which doesn't screw over other utterly valid forms of gameplay the AFK cloaky campers are here to stay, I'm afraid. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
775
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Posted - 2014.06.11 11:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
This is a thorny issue.
As I've explained in other threads on the same thing I can and have proved that with only some household items I can make my mouse spoof slight and random movement. This would utterly negate the AFK by lack of mouse movement idea, unfortunately. There's no point in the devs implementing something which can easily be avoided to perpetuate the situation which the dev's are trying to avoid.
This is a thorny subject. Whilst I have sympathy for those affected there are ways around the issue with current game mechanics as discussed in pretty much every other thread about AFK cloaky campers. Pretty much every possible counter CCP could implement has also been discussed but concerns about abuse and potential workarounds have dogged any attempt by the community to resolve what is a very contentious part of the game.
The best thing you can do is make your enemy waste their money by carrying on with your activities but in groups of pvp fit ships instead of solo. Your isk making ability drops a bit but you can defend yourself. Or you do it solo in non-bling ships making sure you're aligned and paying attention so you can insta-warp. Alternatively, go to the system next door where there aren't any afk cloakies. If he/she really is AFK they won't follow you and will stay in an empty system. If they follow you, you know they're not AFK.
In conclusion, there are already plenty of ways around the issue for those with imagination and the ability to adapt to changing situations and short of a sensible solution which doesn't screw over other utterly valid forms of gameplay the AFK cloaky campers are here to stay, I'm afraid. |
Owen Levanth
Federated Deep Space Explorations
173
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Posted - 2014.06.11 11:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:I sometimes hate this forum. Showed no post through several forced refreshes so reposted and whamo, post duplicated. Apols.
Don't worry, at least this time the forum didn't eat your post completely, like it happened to me two times already.
(I could have sworn there was an icelandic voice mocking me with laughter every time it happened, too.) |
Mag's
the united
17380
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Posted - 2014.06.11 11:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:I sometimes hate this forum. Showed no post through several forced refreshes so reposted and whamo, post duplicated. Apols. It's been happening all morning for me. At first I thought it was firefox, but after testing elsewhere, realised it's this unfinished site that's at fault.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
776
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Posted - 2014.06.11 11:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Tchulen wrote:I sometimes hate this forum. Showed no post through several forced refreshes so reposted and whamo, post duplicated. Apols. Don't worry, at least this time the forum didn't eat your post completely, like it happened to me two times already. (I could have sworn there was an icelandic voice mocking me with laughter every time it happened, too.)
Yeah, I write all my posts in notepad++ now as I've got fed up of losing them. It's pretty frustrating, I'll grant you. |
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Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
1092
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Posted - 2014.06.11 11:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Danika Princip wrote:What about introducing something to prevent posting the same ides five hundred times? Perhaps a forum ban for someone who cannot be bothered to use the 'search' feature? At this point I've seen this tired argument often enough I can only assume people like the OP are lazy or dumb. I'm nice here and say he is lazy. So yeah, a forum ban may be a bit harsh, but people like the OP should at least get a warning and then a ban only if they keep up with reposting their stupid ideas.
because only lazy or dumb people can't deal with afk campers. thus they are they only ones to make threads about it. if having a non blue in your system shuts down your whole corp/alliance then maybe move back to highsec and moan about gankers instead. adapt. make a plan. HTFU etc. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11882
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Posted - 2014.06.11 12:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/afkcloaker.jpg Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6950
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Posted - 2014.06.11 12:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
ahllamaar wrote:Hi, I know this is a subject that periodically comes around,
Yep.
Reported. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
424
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Posted - 2014.06.11 12:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sigh, I reported it without replying as soon as it came up but I guess bumping stupid posts is unavoidable.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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De'Veldrin
Black Serpent Technologies The Unthinkables
2159
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Posted - 2014.06.11 13:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Tchulen wrote:I sometimes hate this forum. Showed no post through several forced refreshes so reposted and whamo, post duplicated. Apols. It's been happening all morning for me. At first I thought it was firefox, but after testing elsewhere, realised it's this unfinished site that's at fault.
This is what happens when you let game designers write a forum instead of using one of the many excellent off the shelf products already available.
If I am not mistaken, we all told them then it was a bad idea to do it trhemselves, but you know...CCP. They're like puppies in a room of chew toys. GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players. |
De'Veldrin
Black Serpent Technologies The Unthinkables
2159
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Posted - 2014.06.11 13:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/afkcloaker.jpg Hey whatever happened to Crumple?
And AFK Cloaker? GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players. |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2361
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Posted - 2014.06.11 13:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:What about introducing something to prevent posting the same ides five hundred times? Perhaps a forum ban for someone who cannot be bothered to use the 'search' feature?
I see your forum ban, and raise you biomass. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
533
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Posted - 2014.06.11 14:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
ahllamaar wrote:]With no way of getting the AFK guy it is unfair to a lot of people.
Show me where it says EvE must be fair.
Life in EvE has risks and problems. Face them, solve them or live with them but if something as minor as AFK cloaking has this much of an effect on you I hate to think how your going to deal with a real threat.
Not supported. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
suid0
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
131
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Posted - 2014.06.11 14:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
ahllamaar wrote:but to avoid AFK char that block activities
AFK char doesn't stop you doing anything... you stop yourself. the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones -á--áCommander Ted |
Dakor Istamer
Central Builders Incorporated Initiative Associates
0
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Posted - 2014.06.11 14:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
To be Frank i Like the Afk camping mechanic but wish CCP would Rebalance it To something similar that To actually have a Cost to Run the Cloaking Module Ie Requiring to have a Faction Relay to make it Cap Stable and that the Overall Mass of the Vessel has a Factor in a Energy cost
Another Function that could be introduced is a Chance to Fail Dependant on skill ad a second Tier Skill Called something like Cloaking Efficiency making it with just cloaking v you have a 45% chance that the Cloak May fail but if you train the secondary skill could lower that down to 10 % and a Implant can lower that to 5%
Or even a Deployable Module that Will for with in a 80 km Range cloaks will be Disrupted but the module its self can not be placed With in 200k from gates and that the deployable is similar to the mobile cyno Inhibitor were it lasts for only one hour
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Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2014.06.11 15:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
I propose a complete lack of local chat in null, just like in WH space to solve this issue. If someone is logged in your system but afk you won't be bothered with that oppressive knowledge. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2014.06.11 15:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:I sometimes hate this forum. Showed no post through several forced refreshes so reposted and whamo, post duplicated. Apols. I've seen posts where if I quote the post, I see more content written by the person, in my post draft, than when simply viewing the thread normally.
Search function is almost always borked it seems like, as well. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4261
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Posted - 2014.06.11 15:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
The problem is not that you seem unable to interact with this cloaked character.
The problem is that you are afraid the cloaked character will interact with you when you are not ready.
Establish a point where you are always ready, and the cloaked character must then match your efforts or be ignored as they should be.
If the game seems unable to allow for such preparedness, then that is another issue, and should be tackled as such.
(Worry about cyno use, or other overwhelming tactics, etc) Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
943
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Posted - 2014.06.11 15:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
ahllamaar wrote:Hi, I know this is a subject that periodically comes around, but trying to bumo it again as it seems a glitch in the game mechanic.
It's not.
Quote:You know the issue.... alt chars that stay days and days in a system cloaked avoiding any other activities by lots of active players.
Making you butthurt isn't the same thing as being an issue.
Quote:With no way of getting the AFK guy it is unfair to a lot of people.
No it isn't. HTFU.
Quote: The point is not to make cloaking modules easy to intercept, but to avoid AFK char that block activities.
An AFK person, by definition, cannot block anything. He's AFK. There's literally nothing he can do to harm you.
Quote:What about introducing something to prevent AFKing while cloaked? for example, after a certain reasonable amount of time with no mouse activity (1 hour?), there is chance for the module to deactivate. This could be reasonable, in my opinion, and would not impact other aspect of the game that could need of cloaking for a long time.
Wow, what a completely new and unique idea!
There are two real issues at play here.
1. You know there is someone else in the system. 2. You are a *****.
So, to solve this problem, we really only need one of two things to happen...
1. You could HTFU. If you stop being a *****, you will no longer fear an AFK person. 2. Remove local, thereby preventing you from knowing that he is there. "Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Luna Arindale
Ubuntu Inc. The Fourth District
34
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Posted - 2014.06.11 15:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
I am fairly certain I know why this thread came into being. However the issue is not cloaking. It is the uncomfortable power projection that can come from one guy cloaked up with a covert cyno.
A cyno once lit can be instantaneously jumped to, there is no counter for the prey, and the prey has a ridiculously low chance of survival even if fit to 'counter' it. I personally don't like it when someone sits in your systems for months on end cloaked up ready to Cyno in a fleet to blap the first person who does anything not in a DED complex. You cannot force them to leave, and you cannot force them to actually attack you. But when they do they have a 100% chance to kill their target with minimal to no losses for zero effort on the part of the hunter because they are using an alt specifically for that end while still making large sums of risk on their main. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4261
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 15:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Luna Arindale wrote:I am fairly certain I know why this thread came into being. However the issue is not cloaking. It is the uncomfortable power projection that can come from one guy cloaked up with a covert cyno.
A cyno once lit can be instantaneously jumped to, there is no counter for the prey, and the prey has a ridiculously low chance of survival even if fit to 'counter' it. I personally don't like it when someone sits in your systems for months on end cloaked up ready to Cyno in a fleet to blap the first person who does anything not in a DED complex. You cannot force them to leave, and you cannot force them to actually attack you. But when they do they have a 100% chance to kill their target with minimal to no losses for zero effort on the part of the hunter because they are using an alt specifically for that end while still making large sums of risk on their main. I would hardly call covert the "end all beat all" of cyno concerns.
They can only send ships off of a limited list, all of which are effectively overpriced for their comparable fighting capability.
The issues surrounding cyno use itself deserve a thread of their own, and this is just a shadow puppet of a thread to demonstrate how effective it can be combined with tactics such as long term cloaking. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2014.06.11 16:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'm fine with cyno having a spool-up time, honestly. Where's the cyno suggestion thread? Search is borked for me as usual. |
Owen Levanth
Federated Deep Space Explorations
174
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Posted - 2014.06.11 16:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
Luna Arindale wrote:I am fairly certain I know why this thread came into being. However the issue is not cloaking. It is the uncomfortable power projection that can come from one guy cloaked up with a covert cyno.
A cyno once lit can be instantaneously jumped to, there is no counter for the prey, and the prey has a ridiculously low chance of survival even if fit to 'counter' it. I personally don't like it when someone sits in your systems for months on end cloaked up ready to Cyno in a fleet to blap the first person who does anything not in a DED complex. You cannot force them to leave, and you cannot force them to actually attack you. But when they do they have a 100% chance to kill their target with minimal to no losses for zero effort on the part of the hunter because they are using an alt specifically for that end while still making large sums of risk on their main.
OK, real talk now. Imagine a world where AFK-cloaking is impossible.
Now you park your alt in a system at a safe and log out until you want to take a look around. Of course when you're logged in, you are actively cloaking and gathering intel.
Now you have a situation were a visitor is not only hanging around for months, he is also producing more stress because you know he is actively gathering intel when you see him, and invisible if he is AFK (because he logged out).
Now every time you see someone suddenly show up in local, you have to be even more alert and on the ball, or you'll be totally surprised.
So in short, be glad a "AFK"-cloaker advertises he's there to you. If someone AFK-camps a system, you at least now something bad could happen if you let your guard down.
Without AFK-cloaking, defenders will have to meet the effort of intel gathering with their own effort.
So from a gameplay perspective, nothing changes except more busy-work for everyone involved. And this is why cloaking is perfectly fine as it is. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4263
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 16:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:OK, real talk now. Imagine a world where AFK-cloaking is impossible.
Now you park your alt in a system at a safe and log out until you want to take a look around. Of course when you're logged in, you are actively cloaking and gathering intel.
Now you have a situation were a visitor is not only hanging around for months, he is also producing more stress because you know he is actively gathering intel when you see him, and invisible if he is AFK (because he logged out). It is undefined here why the visitor is logging out, but that is not the keystone here.
Owen Levanth wrote:Now every time you see someone suddenly show up in local, you have to be even more alert and on the ball, or you'll be totally surprised. So in short, be glad a "AFK"-cloaker advertises he's there to you. If someone AFK-camps a system, you at least now something bad could happen if you let your guard down. Without AFK-cloaking, defenders will have to meet the effort of intel gathering with their own effort. So from a gameplay perspective, nothing changes except more busy-work for everyone involved. And this is why cloaking is perfectly fine as it is. I would say the keystone of this is centered around the perception that a defender can not be both prepared, and engaged in rewarding play.
They suggest, that they are either twiddling their thumbs in a PvP ship, and ready to fight an opponent not willing to engage... OR That they are mining / ratting and are subject to overwhelming force with not enough warning.
That these should be the only two options, seems wrong to me. (And no, while group play is an ideal, we don't live in an ideal world where that can be reliably used... besides which... when was the last time you felt the urge to stand guard while someone else PvE'd some ISK for themselves?) Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Iain Cariaba
In Over Our Heads
31
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Posted - 2014.06.11 17:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
OP wrote:Mommy, Eve isn't fair!!! Of the many ways to deal with a cloaky camper, whining on forums about it isn't one of them. Personally, this thread makes me want to find the system OP calls home, cloaky camp it myself, and see if I can collect me some carebear tears over it being unfair. If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong. |
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