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Malrock
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.17 19:12:00 -
[1]
I dont know about the rest of you, but i find the "requierments" on some skills silly, for example, if you want to become a dedicated cruiser or battleship or battlecruiser pilot there is no way for you to head there direcly, you are forced to train all the smaller skills, like frigate, small guns etc.
Since you arent using them for most of the time the sp and time spent on training them is almost fully wasted.
Why not put it to some use by introducing skill synergy? For example lets look on Hybrid turrets skills;
Small > 5% damage for small, 2% tracking to medium & large turret Medium > 5% damage for medium, 2% damage and tracking to small & large turret Large > 5 % damage for large, 2 % damage to small & medium turret.
The difference is not ground breaking but at least it would be useful, same synergy effects can be applied to any skills.
Another thing is item stacking and packaged state. I think we can save a lot of database power by removing packaged / unpackaged states, also do auto stacking on all containers (including hangar) so you basicaly need only 1 slot to store the amount of items, damaged items cant be moved to storage until repaired (removes stacking issue). What we gain? no more "stack" command - no more lag spikes on stack, easy & elegant recource managment, efficient storage.
People have been asking for corp hangar tabs to be available in personal hangars too, i belive introducing a class filter (similar to market) to sort down / filter hangar / container content ON CLIENT (not on server) would be better solution. Yes i know, you cant sort them by market group olready in game - but you cant filter them, at least not directly (yes, i know, the assets window), why its good? Well, if you have 1001 (i know, 1000 item limit..) items in your container, going through lists is a pain...
Oh, and one more "major" feature request - can we add to shift / control selection the good old "drag-a-selection-box" ?
Unity is the key. |
Cathandra
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Posted - 2006.07.17 21:46:00 -
[2]
How do you propose to even be able to comprehend how to learn how to control a carrier when you can't even ride a bicycle? Simple; you can't.
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Malrock
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.17 22:48:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Cathandra How do you propose to even be able to comprehend how to learn how to control a carrier when you can't even ride a bicycle? Simple; you can't.
My point is not about removing the skill chain, its about making the lover skills to benefit higher ones instead of just sitting there "in case".
And you can control a carrier without knowing how bicylce, cause those 2 have nothing in common Unity is the key. |
Cathandra
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Posted - 2006.07.17 22:57:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Malrock My point is not about removing the skill chain, its about making the lover skills to benefit higher ones instead of just sitting there "in case".
Oh okay /signed then ^^
Originally by: Malrock And you can control a carrier without knowing how bicylce
Okay I should have used a better analogy. Here's one; You can't become an expert at flying something before you have a grasp on the basics of it.
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Tuonela Rautamieli
FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.07.17 23:36:00 -
[5]
Player is captain. He actually dosent have know anything and he can fly titan. And so whole skill base left the building, least in my dreams. Its seems that player alone fly ship?
Quote: by removing packaged / unpackaged states
Exelent idea, for least basic modules, container may be like they are. If its not stack its broken.
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Cathandra
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Posted - 2006.07.17 23:42:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Cathandra on 17/07/2006 23:43:47 Damn laggy forum :-/
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Cathandra
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Posted - 2006.07.17 23:42:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tuonela Rautamieli He actually dosent have know anything and he can fly titan.
What are you smoking? Pass it on please. Last time I checked you have to know quite a lot of level 5 skills to learn how to fly a titan. And now you're saying it doesn't require any skills. Seriously, kids, drugs are BAD.
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Wrayth Osu
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.17 23:42:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Malrock People have been asking for corp hangar tabs to be available in personal hangars too, i belive introducing a class filter (similar to market) to sort down / filter hangar / container content ON CLIENT (not on server) would be better solution.
This idea is been discussed, they may even be working on something like this, but I can't remember for sure.
Wrayth - "These are not the carebears you are looking for." Pirate - "These are not the carebears we are looking for." |
Tuonela Rautamieli
FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.07.17 23:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cathandra
Originally by: Tuonela Rautamieli He actually dosent have know anything and he can fly titan.
What are you smoking? Pass it on please. Last time I checked you have to know quite a lot of level 5 skills to learn how to fly a titan. And now you're saying it doesn't require any skills. Seriously, kids, drugs are BAD.
Quote: And so whole skill base left the building, least in my dreams.
Read what i write. Howabout irony if you dont want to do that?
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Cathandra
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Posted - 2006.07.17 23:52:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tuonela Rautamieli
Quote: And so whole skill base left the building, least in my dreams.
Read what i write.
Sadly I did. I don't think my eyes will ever be as keen again.
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Maya Rkell
Corsets and Carebears
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Posted - 2006.07.18 00:54:00 -
[11]
I have 35 million SP.
Currently, I can't bring them all to bear. Synergistical bonuses will let me bring a lot MORE to bear in any given situation. This...isn't good for younger players. I don't like the idea, thus.
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Mihail d'Amour
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Posted - 2006.07.18 01:02:00 -
[12]
I foresee this ending up much like the transport ships or exhumers... a bonus applied for the points in some prerequisite instead of just making the value of the given attribute it's normal self.
So, for example, we'd weaken all the armor resistanced on a BS, then give a bonus for every level of Cruiser so that at Cruiser 5 you now have them as they are now. This just seems like a painful way to retool all the ships so that they get back to their balanced state they are in now, IMHO.
---------------------------------------------- In nomine Domine, quod erat malum |
Cathandra
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Posted - 2006.07.18 02:24:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Maya Rkell I have 35 million SP.
Nice!
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.07.18 03:19:00 -
[14]
Synergy's a bad idea. The current system is fine.
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.07.18 07:07:00 -
[15]
Actually I will disagree here sunergy is cool.
In a horizontal way anyway.
What do I mean: Atm the game rewards vertical, focused, specialised training. Go all ammar, all Gallente, all this all that. How about some horizontal support. Example:
Thorax 5% med hyb dmg per lvl -5%cap use pen for microwarp per lvl of gallente cruiser. Add to this 1/5 of the other races bonuses for the same tier. So a Thorax also gets: 2% les cap use (of Hybrids though) and 1% armor resists per lvl of Ammar cruiser. 1% dmg (med Hybrids) and 1% tracking per lvl of minmatar cruiser. 2% optimal range of med hyb. and 1% shield resists per lvl of Caldari cruiser.
So a char with Gallente cruiser 5 and all other cruisers to 4 also will be fractionally better in a Thorax than a pilot who has taken the same time to train Gallente cruiser to 5 and gallente BS to 5.
So now you can rly talk about a specced cruiser pilot and he can fly cruisers better than race specced pilots. Of course race specced pilots will fly their races ships in general better than a cruiser specced pilot...
[This will also give incentive to more people to train Destroyer and Battlecruiser skill (which many completely ignored until tech II came out) because in those classes by training onlly the 1 skill you will get the trans/race bonuses immediately.]
I personally like this idea... Generally eople who like training different races will like it and people who prefer specialisation will not like it but any objective opinions?
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Varis
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Posted - 2006.07.18 08:03:00 -
[16]
dont like it - gives MORE advantages to those with more skills.
right now, the high SP veterans will have lots of SP sitting unused in any particular encounter - thats one of the good balancing things about eve.
Add this synergy business, and those vets will start having an even BIGGER advantage.
Not good.
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Zarch AlDain
The Blackwater Brigade HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.07.18 08:59:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Crellion Actually I will disagree here sunergy is cool.
In a horizontal way anyway.
What do I mean: Atm the game rewards vertical, focused, specialised training. Go all ammar, all Gallente, all this all that. How about some horizontal support. Example:
Thorax 5% med hyb dmg per lvl -5%cap use pen for microwarp per lvl of gallente cruiser. Add to this 1/5 of the other races bonuses for the same tier. So a Thorax also gets: 2% les cap use (of Hybrids though) and 1% armor resists per lvl of Ammar cruiser. 1% dmg (med Hybrids) and 1% tracking per lvl of minmatar cruiser. 2% optimal range of med hyb. and 1% shield resists per lvl of Caldari cruiser.
So a char with Gallente cruiser 5 and all other cruisers to 4 also will be fractionally better in a Thorax than a pilot who has taken the same time to train Gallente cruiser to 5 and gallente BS to 5.
So now you can rly talk about a specced cruiser pilot and he can fly cruisers better than race specced pilots. Of course race specced pilots will fly their races ships in general better than a cruiser specced pilot...
[This will also give incentive to more people to train Destroyer and Battlecruiser skill (which many completely ignored until tech II came out) because in those classes by training onlly the 1 skill you will get the trans/race bonuses immediately.]
I personally like this idea... Generally eople who like training different races will like it and people who prefer specialisation will not like it but any objective opinions?
But that's where pirate ships come in, you need skills from two races to fly them.
Zarch AlDain The Blackwater Brigade Huzzah Federation
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Malrock
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.18 11:53:00 -
[18]
here we are again; arguments "argh - the vet's gonna be too uber". Id like to crush this with a cold steel hammer provided by Oveur - the datamining showin in hes blog http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=310
between 0 and 1 million skillpoints: 358353 between 1 and 2 million skillpoints: 14035 between 2 and 3 million skillpoints: 8149 between 3 and 4 million skillpoints: 5826 between 4 and 5 million skillpoints: 4696 between 5 and 10 million skillpoints: 14859 between 10 and 15 million skillpoints: 9875 between 15 and 20 million skillpoints: 7861 between 20 and 25 million skillpoints: 6194 between 25 and 30 million skillpoints: 4373 between 30 and 35 million skillpoints: 2568 between 35 and 40 million skillpoints: 1313 between 40 and 45 million skillpoints: 257 between 45 and 50 million skillpoints: 4 between 50 and 55 million skillpoints: 7 between 55 and 60 million skillpoints: 1
now how many "big vet's" you see here ? if you remember another blog CCP stated that avrage lifetime of a character is 6 months, ever wonder why it is so ?
And btw, most vet's arent werry interested in "noobs" at all, unless they train them up.
Unity is the key. |
Maya Rkell
Corsets and Carebears
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Posted - 2006.07.18 12:33:00 -
[19]
Cathandra, shrug, been arround a while. Would have a lot more if I wasn't a PvP pilot :P
Anyway..
This is, Malroc, you'd seee some pretty big bonuses for people in the 10-15 mil SP+ range. Which is...a lot of players.
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Zarch AlDain
The Blackwater Brigade HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.07.18 13:01:00 -
[20]
It will be interesting to see that skill distribution thing in another 6 months actually, see how it's moving.
Zarch AlDain The Blackwater Brigade Huzzah Federation
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.18 14:42:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Malrock Since you arent using them for most of the time the sp and time spent on training them is almost fully wasted.
No it's not, because they are prerequisites. It's fine as it is. ----------
Always Up To SomethingÖ One of us is really thick, and I hope its you - Kalaan Oratay |
Galifardeua
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.18 21:18:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Malrock Since you arent using them for most of the time the sp and time spent on training them is almost fully wasted.
No it's not, because they are prerequisites.
QFT And using th OP method would make someone who wants only to shoot small weapons to train up to large just to get the full effect. That's not nice.
Have fun.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.18 21:46:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 18/07/2006 21:56:30
Originally by: Maya Rkell I have 35 million SP.
Currently, I can't bring them all to bear. Synergistical bonuses will let me bring a lot MORE to bear in any given situation. This...isn't good for younger players. I don't like the idea, thus.
I really have to aggree with Maya on this one (Oh my god! ) Excactly what she wrote, that's the point. And on a side note: most prerequisites take a week or so, or even less - as long as you're not talking about tech 2 stuff. To break game balance just to accommodate some impatient people doesn't seem like a very good idea to me.
The ideas about item stacking and class filter are interesting. Getting rid of some lag spikes or making storage room more manageable would be great.
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.07.19 04:24:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Crellion on 19/07/2006 04:24:41
Originally by: Varis dont like it - gives MORE advantages to those with more skills.
right now, the high SP veterans will have lots of SP sitting unused in any particular encounter - thats one of the good balancing things about eve.
Add this synergy business, and those vets will start having an even BIGGER advantage.
Not good.
Darn you didnt understand what I wrote... should I tell you to read it again? Should I write another 1000 words essay? You make me despair...
Well let me try a quickie:
The idea is this: Make a player with lvl4 cruiser at 4 races fly gallente cruisers "better" than a player with lvl 5 Gal frig lvl 5 gall cruiser level 5 Gal BS.
The latter has more SPs the former has less SPs.
Read this post. Then read my previous post. Then consider redrafting your reply.
@ the guy who said: thats what faction shipps move in. No m8 its not. Faction ships only give two bonuses (and sometimes a special ability). Flying them is not about SPs and whether you decide to cross train or specialise. Its about isk. Duh.
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Cathandra
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Posted - 2006.07.19 04:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Varis advantages to those with more skills.
Oh dear. ñ_ñ
We can't have that now can we?
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.07.19 05:37:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cathandra
Originally by: Varis advantages to those with more skills.
Oh dear. ñ_ñ
We can't have that now can we?
It should have been "More advantages" or even, "unfair advantages". You obviously benefit from the versatility and bonuses that your 1337 skillz give you.
It's not necessary for the gestalt of your uberness to outweigh the sum of its components. It's bad enough that you're in a T2-fitted megathron without that simple fact serving to make you even tougher in an Incurses than your skills permit, and it means that new players who specialize in small ships will never beat the big ship pilots, even in the new players' chosen specialization.
A thousand times, no.
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Cathandra
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Posted - 2006.07.19 23:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader
Originally by: Cathandra
Originally by: Varis advantages to those with more skills.
Oh dear. ñ_ñ
We can't have that now can we?
It should have been "More advantages" or even, "unfair advantages". You obviously benefit from the versatility and bonuses that your 1337 skillz give you.
It's not necessary for the gestalt of your uberness to outweigh the sum of its components. It's bad enough that you're in a T2-fitted megathron without that simple fact serving to make you even tougher in an Incurses than your skills permit, and it means that new players who specialize in small ships will never beat the big ship pilots, even in the new players' chosen specialization.
A thousand times, no.
Uh.. I don't even have a mil SP yet. And most of my SP are in Learning. I wouldn't benefit from this. I just think it's a cool idea.
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