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Distuth Brinalle
Wraith.Wing
18
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Posted - 2014.09.06 07:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alright, alright, before you guys tar and feather me, let me explain WHY I think these should go.
One of the things that makes EVE so great in my eyes is delayed gratification. You can't grind for days and come out with some crazy character way ahead of where it's supposed to be. You have to wait, and slowly get better at things. Your in game skills grow as you do. First you have to master the core basics, and then you start to specialize, to get good with one class of ships. And then after you've mastered that, you can branch out into another.
But Powergrid and CPU management don't quite fit that scheme. Yes, you do get a benefit out of them, but it seems more like the benefit of the Learning skill, which was already removed some time ago. There isn't anything you master along with the skill. It's just padding you have to do before you can start working on the interesting stuff.
More importantly, it also makes it take longer before you can throw newbies in the deep end. I mean, yes, they do have to get used to long skills, but...shouldn't that wait until they're already hooked? First one is free and all that jazz?
Starting up with an immediate 'before you do fun stuff, spend over a week sitting with these generic skills" doesn't seem like the best introduction to the game, is what I'm trying to say.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
319
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Posted - 2014.09.06 07:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'd at her give newbies one extra level than remove them.
But even that's a slippery slope. One could say the same for AWU - totally mandatory and a complete ballache to train. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2555
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Posted - 2014.09.06 07:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Newbies who get hooked before they're introduced to their first long skill tend to come on the forums and complain about how skills take too long and need to be nerfed or handed out for free or simply removed. |
Mag's
the united
17815
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Posted - 2014.09.06 07:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Distuth Brinalle wrote:More importantly, it also makes it take longer before you can throw newbies in the deep end. I mean, yes, they do have to get used to long skills, but...shouldn't that wait until they're already hooked? First one is free and all that jazz?
Starting up with an immediate 'before you do fun stuff, spend over a week sitting with these generic skills" doesn't seem like the best introduction to the game, is what I'm trying to say.
Over a week before you do fun stuff?
I think you'll find it's not the skills at fault here.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
479
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Posted - 2014.09.06 08:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Newbies who get hooked before they're introduced to their first long skill tend to come on the forums and complain about how skills take too long and need to be nerfed or handed out for free or simply removed.
these skill are chump change really. I have a few 3 day skills I consider fast as hell train...to stick in between the weeks long train skills. Hell put a 7 day between 2 30 day skills sessions and a week is nothing.
Noobs also need to whip out a firing tool and play with the meta gear. They will fall back to it again and again even when they are maxed "fitting" skllis one day. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
6564
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Posted - 2014.09.06 08:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
They're nothing like learning skills. Learning skills were a clear detriment to EVE. They didn't allow you to do anything better. They in fact prevented you from training anything useful like fitting skills. They were just a pointless barrier everyone who wanted to train at the normal speed had to endure. It didn't help, that it was an inconvenience mainly affecting young players in the early stages of their life. Fitting skills on the other hand aren't a hard barrier to doing things, are low rank skills and are very useful. There are also ways to compensate for poor fitting skills by simply using less fitting intensive modules and fits. The issue will be further mitigate by the promised module tiericide, which promises to make all meta modules a good choice for something.
To me it seems you're just trying to bloat what is a minor issue at best in to a problem it really isn't. A new player does not need maximum fitting skills to do anything and they're quick skills to train anyway. Besides if the difference between no fitting skills and max fitting skills is deemed to be too much, why not just buff fittings in general and reduce the bonus the skill provides? The maximum fitting space would stay the same, but the difference between a new player and a vet would be severely reduced. Sort of what they did with the drone skills to combat the fact they were a weapon system not well suited for new players. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
692
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Posted - 2014.09.06 08:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Immediate fun and action? If you wan that you are playing the wrong game and you should leave, just as any newbie who wants the same. This is EVE, not some random game where you casually jump in, do stuff and jump out again.
-1 for even more skill reliefs. |
Solette Cheli
University of Caille Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2014.09.06 09:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Immediate fun and action? If you wan that you are playing the wrong game and you should leave, just as any newbie who wants the same. This is EVE, not some random game where you casually jump in, do stuff and jump out again.
-1 for even more skill reliefs. -1. But I'm quoting this, because you can casually jump in, do stuff and jump out again. Stuff like station trading, missions or (god forbid) mining. Of course, 2 and 3 might end up with you pouring your heart out to a random pirate. And the first makes you suicidal.. But it's possible. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
84
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Posted - 2014.09.06 09:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Oh god no... |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
692
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Posted - 2014.09.06 09:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Solette Cheli wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Immediate fun and action? If you wan that you are playing the wrong game and you should leave, just as any newbie who wants the same. This is EVE, not some random game where you casually jump in, do stuff and jump out again.
-1 for even more skill reliefs. -1. But I'm quoting this, because you can casually jump in, do stuff and jump out again. Stuff like station trading, missions or (god forbid) mining. Of course, 2 and 3 might end up with you pouring your heart out to a random pirate. And the first makes you suicidal.. But it's possible.
Right, this kind of activity is certainly possible (and even that requires CPU/PG skills or some trade skills and mission running to get standings. I wonder when people complain (again) about that). I was more thinking about things done in space against other players, which require some serious fittings and not the lol stuff that is so popular among many newer players. |
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1521
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Posted - 2014.09.06 09:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Meta 4 fits don't require perfect fitting skills normally, if they do you are getting carried away. It's the Tech 2 fits that use more PG/CPU and a new player won't be fitting those. So just train them to IV.
The only issue is AWU needing WU V to train, despite working on the other aspect of weapons. |
James Nikolas Tesla
The True Patriots of New Eden
168
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Posted - 2014.09.06 11:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
I understand the reasoning behind this but I say no as well - |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
719
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Posted - 2014.09.06 11:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
They would need to rewrite the entire game.
Due to top down 'balance' most fits wouldn't work without that 25% PG and CPU. You need CPU management to 3 just to Meta 4 fit a Punisher.
3X Meta 4 Pulse 2 Cap rechargers Ancillary Armor rep 2X Meta 4 Armor hadeners 1X Meta 4 Heat Sink
You need it to 5 to do that T2 |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
384
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Posted - 2014.09.06 11:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Read the title, not the rest. Every time I enter an 8 day skill I think: "cool, only 8 days, weeeehh!"
Perspective my friend, perspective, all biased and overstretched expectations - and the assertion you can't do, because ... ??
You can always do !
Typical predjudice and restricted beginner perception ... also extends to some simple minded long time players, but usually less so. Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
86
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Posted - 2014.09.06 12:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Had no idea it took a week to train to level 3. Automatic level 5 skills makes no sense. Eve is making a lot of requirements level 4 based so requirement for your fun is getting fast..ish. Best thing is to ignore the hype that level 5 in CPU and PG skills is required as it is not. Level 3 or 4 works pretty good also. Making your own limits for not having fun sounds like a personal problem. Is that my two cents or yours? |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
10
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Posted - 2014.09.06 15:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
I spend a lot of my game time working with new players as a result of that I am usually for changes that help new players. On this one thought I have to say no to the idea. my reason may not make sense to some and others may have not have have given this any thought but here goes.
One of the most important things a mentor/coach or whatever term you want to use should work on is to train the new players (the person not the character) to accept that skills take time to train. Easier skills like CPU/PG are excellent tools to use for this aspect of training new players and removing them removes these opportunities. Besides if you think a week long train will drive new players out try dropping them from a skill that takes at most a few days straight into one that takes multiple weeks. |
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