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Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
738
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Posted - 2014.09.11 10:13:00 -
[31] - Quote
I wouldn't say it forces you to do anything, it provides an option. There are frigates even high SP characters fly (Cov Ops, Bombers, etc), and there are some they wouldn't fly mostly because of the risk of losing high value implants. You can argue that the cost of medical clone might have an impact too, however it's still pennies (at 120 SP the clone costs ~20 mil) comparing to a Slave implant set for example, or even simple +4's. I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I-- THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/asayanami Twitter: https://twitter.com/Asayanami Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/Asayanami
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1820
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 10:14:00 -
[32] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Why not? The problem that frig combat is unfeasible for high-sp characters is universal to EVE and not specific to wormholes. If you want to utilize frigates, you should have a low-sp, cheap-clone alt. The only new thing is that EVE now kind of forces us to even consider using frigates, where before they were almost completely ignored in wspace.
It's not a universal problem because the rest of the universe has immediate access to clones. Again, i don't want to create and fund a new character/account just to jump through a wormhole.
I'm not going to argue with you. I want clone swapping and you don't, end of conversation. +1 |
Bleedingthrough
Raptor Navy
146
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Posted - 2014.09.11 10:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
Awesome \0/ |
Darren Fox
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
53
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Posted - 2014.09.11 10:30:00 -
[34] - Quote
Glad to see another CSM from wormholes. Corbexx has done a great job so far, so even with just 1 representative, we have been informed and heard.
Good luck Asayanami! |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
655
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 10:33:00 -
[35] - Quote
I wouldn't mind having clone swapping. But it wouldn't change much on its own anyway. The bigger problem with using frigs in wormholes is that when you die, you don't respawn in your home base like a nullsec guy does. Instead you respawn somewhere in hisec with possibly not even a known route to your home. That is not added risk but simply annoying. For that reason alone I wouldn't normally use a frigate in wspace pvp with my main.
...however, with my frigate alt, why not? If he is podded to hisec, well, then that's it with frig combat for the day and I can switch back to my main. And on the next convenient occasion I'll bring my alt back in.
Of course we can ask for cloning facilities in wspace. But first it's doubtful if we ever get it, and second it's not even a good thing, because the risk/ability to get podded out/pod so. out is an important part of wspace pvp. . |
Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
738
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 10:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
That is a good point. I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I-- THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/asayanami Twitter: https://twitter.com/Asayanami Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/Asayanami
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1821
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Posted - 2014.09.11 10:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
It's not a good point because it has nothing to do with the issue! Getting podded out is just the price you pay in w-space.
Right now i'm in an ascendancy clone which i use in a Tengu. If i use a frigate, whether it's to go on a k-space roam or to jump through a frigate wormhole, i would be exposing my pod to a greater and unnecessary level of risk. 9 times out of 10 i'll either avoid doing the thing that requires me to fly a frig or i'll log off. Sure that's my problem but it also takes away someones opportunity to kill me.
Don't get me wrong, i want to fly frigates and other types of ships but i'm not going to fly a pod worth many times the price of my ship unless i know i'm going to win and survive (e.g. blob and ecm a target). If i would swap to a cheaper pod designed for frigates, i would take more chances and i'm guessing lots of people would feel the same.
Not sure why i have to explain that but there it is. +1 |
AssassinationsdoneWrong
The Nexus 7's
262
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 11:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
To answer BM mechanics for pre-2009 players the limit was brought in to nullify "lag traps" where thousands sometimes 10's of thousands of duplicate bookmarks could be placed in a single jetcan in say low sec and as soon as someone opened it their client pooped a brick trying to load the info whilst they were killed. Moving it to 10 seems a move in the right direction but really doesn't compensate for 20+ chain in anyway shape or form if scouting is being done properly.
Asay I know you don't want people to judge you on older opinions but they are pertinent. You had all of the data that we did, anyone with half a brain could work out approximately where capitals were going to spawn and you did actively support the change knowing this and nothing really has changed between idea stats and implementation stats (apart from the ridicudistances on test server or a while).
So call it what you want but it's a U-turn sorry. I don't see anything wrong with U-turns as long as they are acknowledged as mistakes but to fall back on "that was then, this is now, deal with it" defense is bad for someone who is in essence in a political office. Man up, fess up, state new opinion, move on. Defensive attacking is tactless and shoddy political drama and unneeded at this point especially toward your own electorate. The Nexus 7's
What we fall short of in numbers we more than make up for in stupidity |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
interstellar initiative Incorporated
261
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 11:03:00 -
[39] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:It's not a good point because it has nothing to do with the issue! Getting podded out is just the price you pay i w-space. Right now i'm in an ascendancy clone which i use in a Tengu. If i use a frigate, whether it's to go on a k-space roam or to jump through a frigate wormhole, i would be exposing my pod to a greater and unnecessary level of risk. 9 times out of 10 i'll either avoid doing the thing that requires me to fly a frig or i'll log off. Sure that's my problem but it also takes away someones opportunity to kill me. Don't get me wrong, i want to fly frigates and other types of ships but i'm not going to fly a pod worth many times the price of my ship unless i know i'm going to win and survive (e.g. blob and ecm a target). If i would swap to a cheaper pod designed for frigates, i would take more chances and i'm guessing lots of people would feel the same. Not sure why i have to explain that but there it is. Rek Seven, I don't think we've always seen eye-to-eye on the forum, but that is a very good explanation of a fairly simple principle. I like it. Needless to say, I am definitely a supporter of some mechanism to allow limited clone features (the swapping without all the rest). |
Maduin Shi
Perkone Caldari State
98
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 11:03:00 -
[40] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:
You need to learn the meaning of TL;DR.
It went from a 3 post wall of text to a single post. Good enough for government work |
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AssassinationsdoneWrong
The Nexus 7's
273
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 11:05:00 -
[41] - Quote
I have never been a proponent of clones in WH space. I just see it adding more drama for FC's as people login to fight then have to rely on intel relays as to what clone they should be in and it slooooooows the process down to the point where you probably lose the targets. Null has clone swapping because hardly anything they do requiring hi-grade clones is spontaneous. We are on the cutting edge of spontaneous as a group and anything that stops the YOLO is a bad thing imo. The Nexus 7's
What we fall short of in numbers we more than make up for in stupidity |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1821
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 11:18:00 -
[42] - Quote
AssassinationsdoneWrong wrote:Rek Seven wrote: 9 times out of 10 i'll either avoid doing the thing that requires me to fly a frig or i'll log off. Sure that's my problem but it also takes away someones opportunity to kill me.
Don't get me wrong, i want to fly frigates and other types of ships but i'm not going to fly a pod worth many times the price of my ship unless i know i'm going to win and survive (e.g. blob and ecm a target).. We are on the cutting edge of spontaneous as a group and anything that stops the YOLO is a bad thing imo.
So you agree with me then?? I'm confused.
If you're FC is going to be plagued by people saying "should i use my frigate clone for this frigate roam or my slave set?", your FC/corp has bigger problems. +1 |
Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
738
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 11:24:00 -
[43] - Quote
AssassinationsdoneWrong wrote:To answer BM mechanics for pre-2009 players the limit was brought in to nullify "lag traps" where thousands sometimes 10's of thousands of duplicate bookmarks could be placed in a single jetcan in say low sec and as soon as someone opened it their client pooped a brick trying to load the info whilst they were killed. Moving it to 10 seems a move in the right direction but really doesn't compensate for 20+ chain in anyway shape or form if scouting is being done properly.
Asay I know you don't want people to judge you on older opinions but they are pertinent. You had all of the data that we did, anyone with half a brain could work out approximately where capitals were going to spawn and you did actively support the change knowing this and nothing really has changed between idea stats and implementation stats (apart from the ridicudistances on test server or a while).
So call it what you want but it's a U-turn sorry. I don't see anything wrong with U-turns as long as they are acknowledged as mistakes but to fall back on "that was then, this is now, deal with it" defense is bad for someone who is in essence in a political office. Man up, fess up, state new opinion, move on. Defensive attacking is tactless and shoddy political drama and unneeded at this point especially toward your own electorate. No, I agree. I had all the data as you said, but I didn't care to take time to interpretet it correctly and then made a trolly comment. But I can't shake the feeling that if Hyperion shipped without the jump-mass mechanic, overall reactions of the community would have been much more positive. I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I-- THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/asayanami Twitter: https://twitter.com/Asayanami Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/Asayanami
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AssassinationsdoneWrong
The Nexus 7's
273
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 11:31:00 -
[44] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:So you agree with me then?? I'm confused. I want to Rek I really do. Your arguments are getting stronger on the forums and making far more sense but clone swapping is so close to allowing what Null Sec does that, as I've stated before, one more step to what they do gives them one more reason to petition hard for the things they want to change e.g. Stabilizers. Personally I don't see frig wh's providing more than a flash content that will last weeks not months. Low/Null are out there for frigs/af's/cruisers hell any kind of roam or adventure and change clones to do a well organised roam to boot. The only people I feel have a case for clone swapping in WH's atm is the poor buggers in 1-4's who built a Rorqual and got given the royal fist-f%&k by CCP but even then it's still not enough to sway me to believe this will help content. The Nexus 7's
What we fall short of in numbers we more than make up for in stupidity |
AssassinationsdoneWrong
The Nexus 7's
273
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 11:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Asayanami Dei wrote: But I can't shake the feeling that if Hyperion shipped without the jump-mass mechanic, overall reactions of the community would have been much more positive.
Agreed The Nexus 7's
What we fall short of in numbers we more than make up for in stupidity |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
200
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:02:00 -
[46] - Quote
Asayanami Dei wrote: But I can't shake the feeling that if Hyperion shipped without the jump-mass mechanic, overall reactions of the community would have been much more positive.
+1
I didn't mind anything else about the patch, and was seriously considering moving back into a C3/4/5 until I read about the mass chances. |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
67
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:16:00 -
[47] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Why not? The problem that frig combat is unfeasible for high-sp characters is universal to EVE and not specific to wormholes. If you want to utilize frigates, you should have a low-sp, cheap-clone alt. The only new thing is that EVE now kind of forces us to even consider using frigates, where before they were almost completely ignored in wspace.
It's not unfeasible and certainly not universal.
You are actually saying that being risk-averse is unfortunately common.
Anyway, you're more likely to get out of a bubble in a frigate than in a bigger ship. Approaching frigate PVP as something that invariably gets you killed mostly tells about lack of experience. Yes, it's faster and harder but that surely doesn't mean "high-SP players with expensive implants" should be treated somehow differently than new players.
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Maduin Shi
Perkone Caldari State
98
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:23:00 -
[48] - Quote
I'm pretty happy with Asay's positions as they were laid out. I would like both CSM's pushing back on the mass/spawn distance changes. Besides the points he laid out, I just don't like having "stargates" in w-space. Its unoriginal. Its stale. Its too k-spacey. And it doesn't mesh well with mass limitations.
I'm also not satisfied with the "swiss cheese" effect of all the random holes and frig holes. These things limit player choice if you're in a small group. "Well we can do PvP today, same as the last 5 days", is not what I call player choice. It really is like picking up nickels on the freeway if you're a PvE guy in a small corp. Whats worse is CCP left in the mechanic where you can seal off your wormhole by crashing all the randoms and statics. So if you're a big group, no problem, just takes a bit longer to crash everything and if your rolling ships get jumped you can easily defend them.
But if you're a small group, you're just plain SOL. Buffing site incomes and "mini-escalations" will help, but I think it doesn't address the core problem with Hyperion ... that it was a "shaddap and eat your peas" patch, meaning less player choice and player control. The old w-space allowed a significant degree of player control over how your w-space home connected to the outside, and it allowed things like combat rolling to slam the door on blobs. The new w-space is almost actively anti-small gang and in many ways works against small groups trying to live in wormholes and experience the whole of w-space life (not just daytripping for PvP).
That's not to say I want w-space to be a friendly happy carebearville like a themepark MMO, but the swiss cheese and the "stargates" changes have made small PvE-oriented corps sort of an endangered species now. PI and wormhole POS industry remains viable, but that's not putting any worthwhile ships at risk doing that outside of cheap haulers. Most importantly Hyperion made the jump from highsec life to wormholes, say from highsec to a C1 or a C2 more like a cliff than a stepping stone. The risk/reward is really starting to look bad especially with ice being so valuable now, my noob recruits have no interest in running our wormhole sites, only PI and using our lowsec static for FW and roams.
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
655
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:26:00 -
[49] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote:Why not? The problem that frig combat is unfeasible for high-sp characters is universal to EVE and not specific to wormholes. If you want to utilize frigates, you should have a low-sp, cheap-clone alt. The only new thing is that EVE now kind of forces us to even consider using frigates, where before they were almost completely ignored in wspace. It's not unfeasible and certainly not universal. You are actually saying that being risk-averse is unfortunately common. Anyway, you're more likely to get out of a bubble in a frigate than in a bigger ship. Approaching frigate PVP as something that invariably gets you killed mostly tells about lack of experience. Yes, it's faster and harder but that surely doesn't mean "high-SP players with expensive implants" should be treated somehow differently than new players. Of course they shouldn't be treated differently, that's what I said.
Nonetheless, it makes little sense to engage in frig combat with a 100m+ sp character with a slave set. You don't utilize 80m of your skillpoints but still have to pay the high cost for a new clone upgrade if you get podded. And you risk your expensive slave set without getting a noticable benefit from it while fighting in your frig. So in general it would be stupid to fly a frigate with that character instead of a 20m sp character with maybe 20m in implants. Because that character will have 90% of the efficiency in that frigate with 1% of the capital at risk. . |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
68
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:26:00 -
[50] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:Rek Seven wrote:It's not a good point because it has nothing to do with the issue! Getting podded out is just the price you pay i w-space. Right now i'm in an ascendancy clone which i use in a Tengu. If i use a frigate, whether it's to go on a k-space roam or to jump through a frigate wormhole, i would be exposing my pod to a greater and unnecessary level of risk. 9 times out of 10 i'll either avoid doing the thing that requires me to fly a frig or i'll log off. Sure that's my problem but it also takes away someones opportunity to kill me. Don't get me wrong, i want to fly frigates and other types of ships but i'm not going to fly a pod worth many times the price of my ship unless i know i'm going to win and survive (e.g. blob and ecm a target). If i would swap to a cheaper pod designed for frigates, i would take more chances and i'm guessing lots of people would feel the same. Not sure why i have to explain that but there it is. Rek Seven, I don't think we've always seen eye-to-eye on the forum, but that is a very good explanation of a fairly simple principle. I like it. Needless to say, I am definitely a supporter of some mechanism to allow limited clone features (the swapping without all the rest).
Good explanation? Yes, a legible description of futile attempt at rationalizing a subjective issue and demanding the game to be changed accordingly.
The game offers choices (in this case pirate implant sets) that come with consequences (risk of losing the invested ISK). He wants to remove the consequence by using the argument "because K-space can swap clones easier, wormholes should have that too".
And we all agree that "because in k-space" is non-valid argument for any changes to w-space.
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Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
68
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:35:00 -
[51] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote: Nonetheless, it makes little sense to engage in frig combat with a 100m+ sp character with a slave set. You don't utilize 80m of your skillpoints but still have to pay the high cost for a new clone upgrade if you get podded. And you risk your expensive slave set without getting a noticable benefit from it while fighting in your frig. So in general it would be stupid to fly a frigate with that character instead of a 20m sp character with maybe 20m in implants. Because that character will have 90% of the efficiency in that frigate with 1% of the capital at risk.
This I see as a misconception. Pirate implant sets provide significant advantages in frigate PVP, just try fighting a buffer fit frig pilot wearing HG Slaves in your bare bones clone. The margins in frigate combat are considerably smaller and having 1000 extra EHP means much more than it looks on the paper.
It's not a coincidence that many top frigate pilots opt for pie implant sets.
You're correct about not utilizing most of your SP, but that's usually the case when you got enough SP. I personally regard that as the price you pay for having the options SP provide. And honestly, clone costs are pocket money for wormholers.
And again, I think the attitude "I'll get podded if I fly a frigate" is imho counter-intuitive. I go to every fight with the sole intent of coming out alive with a few more kills to my name, ship class has no relevancy in this.
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Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
68
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:40:00 -
[52] - Quote
Oh and what comes to the actual topic: Congrats Asyanami! It's simply great to have another rep in CSM and I wish you and corbexx best of luck in your job.
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Jez Amatin
Enso Corp
17
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
AssassinationsdoneWrong wrote:Asayanami Dei wrote: But I can't shake the feeling that if Hyperion shipped without the jump-mass mechanic, overall reactions of the community would have been much more positive. Agreed
Possibly for the higher class dwellers, who are typically more vocal.
For low class peeps, i think the outcome would have been only slightly less bad. Personally i liked the old system because it enabled small groups to exist, however, i appreciate the need for changes. The problem is the patch pushes low class corps to recruit more whilst not having the ecology to support larger groups - which are now needed to manage the increase in connections. Its not a case of refusing to adapt to changes, more a case of not having the tools to adapt with. This is why i share Corbexx's view on the matter, and whilst open to debate, I think we can all agree that nobody would benefit from having C1-4 being a barren wasteland.
But i still welcome anyone who is willing to help CCP achieve a balanced perspective for all w-space residents. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1822
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:02:00 -
[54] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote: And again, I think the attitude "I'll get podded if I fly a frigate" is imho counter-intuitive. I go to every fight with the sole intent of coming out alive with a few more kills to my name, ship class has no relevancy in this.
If anyone has a weak argument here it's you with your "we shouldn't have it because k-space has it" argument that is barely an opinion and just stems from an irrational fear that once day CCP will add fixed gates, stations and concord to w-space.
The issue that i have isn't "i'll get podded if i fly a frigate" it''s "if i get podded in this 20 mil frigate, i'll lose 2 billion so i think i'll sit this one out"... If after that you can't see how allowing clone swapping would encourage more people to participate in non T3 combat, i must be talking to a moron. +1 |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
68
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Aiyshimin wrote: And again, I think the attitude "I'll get podded if I fly a frigate" is imho counter-intuitive. I go to every fight with the sole intent of coming out alive with a few more kills to my name, ship class has no relevancy in this.
If anyone has a weak argument here it's you with your "we shouldn't have it because k-space has it" argument that is barely an opinion and just stems from an irrational fear that once day CCP will add fixed gates, stations and concord to w-space. The issue that i have isn't "i'll get podded if i fly a frigate" it''s "if i get podded in this 20 mil frigate, i'll lose 2 billion so i think i'll sit this one out"... If after that you can't see how allowing clone swapping would encourage more people to participate in non T3 combat, i must be talking to a moron.
No, I didn't present that argument, you said that you want clone swapping because k-space has it and only it unlocks frigate fights for you. CCP isn't bringing gates or stations to w-space afaik. Are you worried?
Free ships would encourage more players to PVP, but it doesn't mean free ships are a good idea.
Are you happier to lose your 2 bil clone if you lose a 1.5bil ship with it? Or you just don't take any fights where you could possibly die? If you don't realize that this is all about your personal tendency towards risk aversity, I must be talking to a moron.
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1822
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:25:00 -
[56] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Aiyshimin wrote: And again, I think the attitude "I'll get podded if I fly a frigate" is imho counter-intuitive. I go to every fight with the sole intent of coming out alive with a few more kills to my name, ship class has no relevancy in this.
If anyone has a weak argument here it's you with your "we shouldn't have it because k-space has it" argument that is barely an opinion and just stems from an irrational fear that once day CCP will add fixed gates, stations and concord to w-space. The issue that i have isn't "i'll get podded if i fly a frigate" it''s "if i get podded in this 20 mil frigate, i'll lose 2 billion so i think i'll sit this one out"... If after that you can't see how allowing clone swapping would encourage more people to participate in non T3 combat, i must be talking to a moron. No, I didn't present that argument, you said that you want clone swapping because k-space has it and only it unlocks frigate fights for you. CCP isn't bringing gates or stations to w-space afaik. Are you worried? Free ships would encourage more players to PVP, but it doesn't mean free ships are a good idea. Are you happier to lose your 2 bil clone if you lose a 1.5bil ship with it? Or you just don't take any fights where you could possibly die? If you don't realize that this is all about your personal tendency towards risk aversity, I must be talking to a moron.
Where did i say "i want it because k-space has it" i clearly say that i want it because it would encourage me to fly other ships and take more chances.
I'm not bothered if i lose a 200 billion clone in a 10 million isk as long as the pod is designed for a cruiser but a 1 billion isk t3 would provide extra protection against getting podded. So yes, i would be happier knowing that i did everything i could even if i ended up losing. +1 |
Maduin Shi
Perkone Caldari State
99
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:28:00 -
[57] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote: Free ships would encourage more players to PVP, but it doesn't mean free ships are a good idea.
Are you happier to lose your 2 bil clone if you lose a 1.5bil ship with it? Or you just don't take any fights where you could possibly die? If you don't realize that this is all about your personal tendency towards risk aversity, I must be talking to a moron.
I'd rather kill Rek in his "free ship" and cheap clone, then not have anything to do at all. Does that make the point sufficiently?
But frankly, if he's a rich *****, I'll probably still get a decent killmail. But its choosing between having a shot at one, and not. Take it or leave it, 's what he's saying. |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
68
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:56:00 -
[58] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Where did i say "i want it because k-space has it" i clearly say that i want it because it would encourage me to fly other ships and take more chances. I'm not bothered if i lose a 200 billion clone in a 10 million isk cruiser as long as the pod is designed that ship but a 1 billion isk t3 would provide extra protection against getting podded. So yes, i would be happier knowing that i did everything i could even if i ended up losing. I already acknowledged that it was down to my tendency towards risk/stupidity averse gameplay, so try and keep up. Now kindly address this: Rek Seven wrote: If i'm wrong give me three good reasons why this would be bad for wormhole space and wouldn't result in more PVP combat.
You said that it's a wormhole specific problem because rest of the universe has immediate access to clones.
You do realize that you are far more likely to get stuck in a bubble in a Proteus than in a frigate, and therefore less likely to lose your pod when flying a frigate? It's your actions as a pilot that prevent podding, not EHP around you.
I only give one reason because it's as many as you gave.
1) it only caters to the risk averse (as you already admitted that reducing your risk is the only reason you want clone swapping)
Maduin Shi wrote:'d rather kill Rek in his "free ship" and cheap clone, then not have anything to do at all. Does that make the point sufficiently?
But frankly, if he's a rich *****, I'll probably still get a decent killmail. But its choosing between having a shot at one, and not. Take it or leave it, 's what he's saying.
It's ok, there's tons of carebears who never leave hisec because they fear losing their +5s. Game goes on without them no worries. Many people make excuses to not fight and it's impossible to remove all their imaginary barriers, they will invent new ones.
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scorchlikeshiswhiskey
interstellar initiative Incorporated
262
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 14:14:00 -
[59] - Quote
When did risk averse become a bad thing? If we're going to start calling people out because they aren't willing to take certain risks (to protect their stuff) then when can I start calling people out for being risk averse by hiding their ships and mods behind a POS shield when they log off? There's risk averse, and then there's common sense. It seems you cannot comprehend the difference, or you must be trolling, so why not take a break go google the difference, then come back and tell us what you found. It's ok, we'll wait for you to come back and see if maybe you're capable of pulling your head out of the cavity it is currently lodged in long enough to recognize that your playstyle and acceptable risk isn't the same as everyone elses and shouldn't be. Edit for clarity: There is a difference between being risk averse (not afk mining with 3 open k holes) and not being willing to fight (pos'ing up as soon as a sig pops up), being risk averse means that the potential reward isn't sufficient for you to take the risk. Like engaging a "lone" SSC Proteus on wormhole by yourself, personally, I probably wouldn't because I know those guys could have a cloaky gang waiting, or a fleet on the other side within jump range. What you are implying is that doing that puts me on the same level as someone who pos's up after seeing a newbie corp member in a drake.
If you want to take a HG Slave set and jump into a Hawk to go roam wormholes, fine, but just because you do doesn't mean everyone else wants to. I agree with Rek, I would be much more willing to go out in a frigate and be super fast if I wasn't doing it with my T3-oriented implants. I dare say that the inability to swap clones without telling the target to sit tight while you go to high sec and jump clone is what lead to T3 warfare eclipsing any other individual type of warfare in wormholes. (Notice I said individual, meaning that T3s are more common than, say, BC's) Wormholes are about strategy, pure and simple, and a clone swap mechanic, even severely limited, allows a wider variety of strategic choices that will encourage new and different playstyles within wormholes. So, instead of jumping into a wormhole in a Proteus and seeing the 2-3 new bros pos up, you might see them execute a clone swap and come after you with a frigate gang because they are risking less and willing to do more for the opportunity to actually have some |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
68
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Posted - 2014.09.11 14:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
Did I say that risk averse is a bad thing? You seem to feel like it is. Some people just are risk averse and it is ok. I just don't think this game specifically caters to them, or that wormholes as a sub environment in EVE should be modified to suite them better.
Wormholes already allow for varied strategies. The perceived limitations you present are only subjective results of personal choices. |
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