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corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
898
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 13:00:56 -
[1] - Quote
Below you will find a list of idea's I'd like to see added to help encourage people. I've gone through a few steps to get here. So feel free to comment. I'd rather people be constructive. if you don't like them or disagree thats fine but say why and explain it.
Numbers and stuff aren't final, so please don't get in to a huge long thread of questioning tiny details. Should any of this happen it would be altered mostly by CCP.
I've also removed a couple things that have already been done (increase isk in C1 to C2 due to blue books)
Mini escalations
These would be added to C1 to C4 along with different ways to trigger them.
C4 Bringing 6+ cruisers, or 4+ battleships (including t2 versions) or a capital would trigger the mini escalation of 2 sleeper guardians adding approximately 50m to the site.
C3 Bringing 6+ cruisers (or t2 versions), or 4+ battleships (including t2 versions) or a capital would trigger the mini escalation of 1 sleeper guardians adding approximately 25m to the site.
C2 Bringing 4+ cruisers (or t2 versions), or 3+ battleships (including t2 versions) or a capital would trigger the mini escalation of 2 sleeper defender adding approximately 12m to the site. (I think)
C1 Bringing 3+ cruisers (or t2 versions), or 2+ battleships (including t2 versions) or a capital would trigger the mini escalation of 1 sleeper defender adding approximately 6m to the site. (I think)
These could be done twice (same as C5 and C6 escalations) by bringing either double of one type or two different ones.
Faction sleeper spawns (commanders)
These would have a chance to appear whenever a mini escalation or normal escalation is done. With the sleeper commanders increasing in difficulty from C1 to C6. Or as a seperate new combat site that could be scanned down (in which case there would be a sleeper commander and a body guard with him and be similar to a burner mission).
C1 being less difficult than a sleeper guardian up to maybe a sleeper capital in C5 or C6
They would drop a small amount of blue books but potentially either sleeper faction mods or sleeper faction bpc, The bpc would be made using sleeper salvage (IGÇÖm in favour of bpcGÇÖs as it would help increase the value of sleeper salvage)
The modules would have similar stats to a faction items but with a bonus they take less heat damage. (I know people have already ummed and arred over this already, its a concept again don't worry about details)
C5 and C6 Capital escalations.
After alot of chatting discussing several ideas came up, please feel free to discuss thesein a civil and constructive manner.
1 Lower the capital escalations in C5 to 2 waves of 6 sleeper guardians, and C6 to 2 waves of 9. Then adding a can at the end of the site, that appears when all the none capital escalation waves are cleared (sleeper store house, what ever) that can be salvaged for approx 350m in blue books and salvage.
This would lower the reliance on capital escalations and encourage people in to there static to farm these sites.
2 Make the capital escalation waves spawn in random points around the site and remove 1 sleeper guardian from each capital escalation and replace it with 3 cruisers and 4 frigates( numbers could be increased or decreased), that orbit at 30km and point.
This would mean smart bombing all waves and warping to where the capital escalation spawn would be alot harder and that you would potentially need sub capital support.
Odds and sods
lower the m3 of the lower end gas.
Add the gases from k space used to make drugs to w-space, with the parts needed to make them added by system effect, this won't be possible in all cases since there is more drugs types than system effects, and not all fit innicely. But as a example the gasses for mindflood (cap regen) would be found in pulsars and x-instinct (signiture radius) in wolf rayets.
Different from cap and mini escalations. Having a small chance that on completing a combat site you get a mission pop up in your journal telling you about a radio transmission (or something) and a bookmark leading to a slightly harder site (1 wormhole class higher) so in a c2 you would get a c3 site. This would alot people to potentially try different sites.
Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better
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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
224
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Posted - 2014.11.11 13:13:28 -
[2] - Quote
What about battlecruisers as escalation triggers? |
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
95
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 13:21:56 -
[3] - Quote
corbexx wrote: Mini escalations
Sounds interesting! However, escalation NPCs should be a real challenge/risk, i.e. web/scram/neut the **** out of people.
corbexx wrote: Faction sleeper spawns (commanders)
Kewl. The mods should be more on par with deadspace stats though.
corbexx wrote: C5 and C6 Capital escalations.
I don't think messing with C5/C6 escalation in such a way is really helpful. Ultimately, your approach would significantly reduce the overall income that can be achieved in a system AND make it even more of a hassle to generate ISK.
I am not saying that running C5/C6 isn't one of the most profitable ways of making ISK in EvE, it might very well be in for a nerf. But not like that.
A couple days ago you mentioned something about reducing the value of escalations battleships to 15m and moving the money into the actual site. I liked that better ...
corbexx wrote:Different from cap and mini escalations. Also nice! |
corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
898
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 13:22:32 -
[4] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:What about battlecruisers as escalation triggers?
I'll add them in a min
Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better
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corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
898
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 13:27:49 -
[5] - Quote
Ab'del Abu wrote:corbexx wrote: C5 and C6 Capital escalations.
I don't think messing with C5/C6 escalation in such a way is really helpful. Ultimately, your approach would significantly reduce the overall income that can be achieved in a system AND make it even more of a hassle to generate ISK. I am not saying that running C5/C6 isn't one of the most profitable ways of making ISK in EvE, it might very well be in for a nerf. But not like that. A couple days ago you mentioned something about reducing the value of escalations battleships to 15m and moving the money into the actual site. I liked that better ...
It would reduce the amount of isk in your home system yes for idea 1 but would almost double the income from a c5 or c6 static, yes if your in a c5 - c2 you would lose out, if your in a c2 - c5 you would gain.
The value of the battleships would be the same just less of them and the isk from that would be in the atual site (thats the can at the end). Yes the blue books could be lowered and that isk put in the can at the end (would be almost the same thing but would take just as long to do the site for less isk.
so i think your getting a bit mixed up here.
Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better
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Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
95
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Posted - 2014.11.11 13:41:23 -
[6] - Quote
corbexx wrote:Ab'del Abu
corbexx wrote:[b wrote: C5 and C6 Capital escalations.[/b]
I don't think messing with C5/C6 escalation in such a way is really helpful. Ultimately, your approach would significantly reduce the overall income that can be achieved in a system AND make it even more of a hassle to generate ISK. I am not saying that running C5/C6 isn't one of the most profitable ways of making ISK in EvE, it might very well be in for a nerf. But not like that. A couple days ago you mentioned something about reducing the value of escalations battleships to 15m and moving the money into the actual site. I liked that better ... It would reduce the amount of isk in your home system yes for idea 1 but would almost double the income from a c5 or c6 static, yes if your in a c5 - c2 you would lose out, if your in a c2 - c5 you would gain. The value of the battleships would be the same just less of them and the isk from that would be in the atual site (thats the can at the end). so i think your getting a bit mixed up here.
I was considering escalations multiple days in a row: your proposal effectively more than halves the ISK that can be done in total while making it more of a hassle with random spawn locations and requiring you to finish the site.
Otoh you're right of course in that it would make ratting in your C5/C6 all the more profitable. Maybe even too profitable considering you would only be using subcaps? I think that doing C5 with subcaps (marauders) is already worthwhile.
I'm all for shifting the balance a bit, but not by such a huge margin ...
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corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
898
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 13:51:46 -
[7] - Quote
Ab'del Abu wrote:corbexx wrote:Ab'del Abu
corbexx wrote:[b wrote: C5 and C6 Capital escalations.[/b]
I don't think messing with C5/C6 escalation in such a way is really helpful. Ultimately, your approach would significantly reduce the overall income that can be achieved in a system AND make it even more of a hassle to generate ISK. I am not saying that running C5/C6 isn't one of the most profitable ways of making ISK in EvE, it might very well be in for a nerf. But not like that. A couple days ago you mentioned something about reducing the value of escalations battleships to 15m and moving the money into the actual site. I liked that better ... It would reduce the amount of isk in your home system yes for idea 1 but would almost double the income from a c5 or c6 static, yes if your in a c5 - c2 you would lose out, if your in a c2 - c5 you would gain. The value of the battleships would be the same just less of them and the isk from that would be in the atual site (thats the can at the end). so i think your getting a bit mixed up here. I was considering escalations multiple days in a row: your proposal effectively more than halves the ISK that can be done in total while making it more of a hassle with random spawn locations and requiring you to finish the site. Otoh you're right of course in that it would make ratting in your C5/C6 all the more profitable. Maybe even too profitable considering you would only be using subcaps? I think that doing C5 with subcaps (marauders) is already worthwhile. I'm all for shifting the balance a bit, but not by such a huge margin ...
it would be one or the other not both at the same time, and yes lowering the cap escaltion is potentally pretty extreme (although thats partly since everyone is so used to it now) the other method of random spawn location and more frigs cruisers would just mean you would need a sub cap fleet to support your caps.
Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better
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Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
413
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 14:09:48 -
[8] - Quote
Sleeper ammunition? Smaller volume and perhaps higher secondary effects? Only a few types initially in the middle ground of gun ammos and missiles.
e.g. sleeper anti-matter: 10% more falloff when equipped sleeper multifrequency: 5% faster ROF sleeper fusion shells: 50% reduced optimal, 5% increased tracking sleeper missiles: 10% more explosion velocity
things like this, generally equippable by everyone, produced using sleeper mats and BPCs from sleeper sites, requires sleeper related science skills etc etc etc.
Help boost the economy and take it away from just ratting, the increased competition for resources will help T3 and subsystem manufacturing demand higher prices as well and since there is only 1 real source of the materials required then it will promote more activity in wormholes as well.
also as for mini escalations I would base these off the use of RR or logi boats because these formats are more likely to be included as force multipliers than simply more numbers. Numbers are hard to come by as-is, I think your mileage would be greater if you caused these mini escalations to happen under specific circumstances rather than simply how many people turn up.
Also who would have battleships and capitals in a C1? Reformat that to just 3 battlecruisers and you'd be better off since that's what 99% of the advice for new WH players centers on: "just grab a drake or 2".
Join channel Aussies in space to chat with AU/NZ players
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Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
95
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Posted - 2014.11.11 14:24:49 -
[9] - Quote
corbexx wrote:Ab'del Abu wrote:
I was considering escalations multiple days in a row: your proposal effectively more than halves the ISK that can be done in total while making it more of a hassle with random spawn locations and requiring you to finish the site.
Otoh you're right of course in that it would make ratting in your C5/C6 all the more profitable. Maybe even too profitable considering you would only be using subcaps? I think that doing C5 with subcaps (marauders) is already worthwhile.
I'm all for shifting the balance a bit, but not by such a huge margin ...
it would be one or the other not both at the same time, and yes lowering the cap escaltion is potentally pretty extreme (although thats partly since everyone is so used to it now) the other method of random spawn location and more frigs cruisers would just mean you would need a sub cap fleet to support your caps.
Hey I get it, and I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad idea. But I'm also not afraid to say that it negatively affects they way that we do things in whspace (not even alt-posting here :P) |
Zekora Rally
U2EZ
3
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 14:36:53 -
[10] - Quote
I think it would be decent to have at least 4 sleeper guardians in a C4 and C3 for mini escalations. Then 2 spawns for C2 and C1. |
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Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
95
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 14:46:15 -
[11] - Quote
Zekora Rally wrote:I think it would be decent to have at least 4 sleeper guardians in a C4 and C3 for mini escalations. Then 2 spawns for C2 and C1.
LOL that would make for an unpleasant surprise ... |
Servant's Lord
Everlasting Vendetta.
71
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 15:21:49 -
[12] - Quote
YES PLSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Corbexx wrote:Then adding a can at the end of the site, that appears when all the none capital escalation waves are cleared (sleeper store house, what ever) that can be salvaged for approx 350m in blue books and salvage.
This would lower the reliance on capital escalations and encourage people in to there static to farm these sites.
YESSSSSSS PLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS |
Loki106
Everlasting Vendetta.
33
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 15:22:34 -
[13] - Quote
Servant's Lord wrote:YES PLSSSSSSSSSSSSS Corbexx wrote:Then adding a can at the end of the site, that appears when all the none capital escalation waves are cleared (sleeper store house, what ever) that can be salvaged for approx 350m in blue books and salvage.
This would lower the reliance on capital escalations and encourage people in to there static to farm these sites. YESSSSSSS PLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS Can I request in this thread for a negative rep button for the forums? |
Lucius Ornulf
Everlasting Vendetta.
1
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Posted - 2014.11.11 15:23:07 -
[14] - Quote
Servant's Lord wrote:YES PLSSSSSSSSSSSSS Corbexx wrote:Then adding a can at the end of the site, that appears when all the none capital escalation waves are cleared (sleeper store house, what ever) that can be salvaged for approx 350m in blue books and salvage.
This would lower the reliance on capital escalations and encourage people in to there static to farm these sites. YESSSSSSS PLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
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Big Daddy Reaper
Everlasting Vendetta.
1
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Posted - 2014.11.11 15:23:38 -
[15] - Quote
Servant's Lord wrote:YES PLSSSSSSSSSSSSS Corbexx wrote:Then adding a can at the end of the site, that appears when all the none capital escalation waves are cleared (sleeper store house, what ever) that can be salvaged for approx 350m in blue books and salvage.
This would lower the reliance on capital escalations and encourage people in to there static to farm these sites. YESSSSSSS PLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
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Lord Servant
Everlasting Vendetta.
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 15:24:25 -
[16] - Quote
Servant's Lord wrote:YES PLSSSSSSSSSSSSS Corbexx wrote:Then adding a can at the end of the site, that appears when all the none capital escalation waves are cleared (sleeper store house, what ever) that can be salvaged for approx 350m in blue books and salvage.
This would lower the reliance on capital escalations and encourage people in to there static to farm these sites. YESSSSSSS PLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
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Lord Servants
Everlasting Vendetta.
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 15:25:09 -
[17] - Quote
Servant's Lord wrote:YES PLSSSSSSSSSSSSS Corbexx wrote:Then adding a can at the end of the site, that appears when all the none capital escalation waves are cleared (sleeper store house, what ever) that can be salvaged for approx 350m in blue books and salvage.
This would lower the reliance on capital escalations and encourage people in to there static to farm these sites. YESSSSSSS PLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
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Servants Lord
Everlasting Vendetta.
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 15:25:53 -
[18] - Quote
Servant's Lord wrote:YES PLSSSSSSSSSSSSS Corbexx wrote:Then adding a can at the end of the site, that appears when all the none capital escalation waves are cleared (sleeper store house, what ever) that can be salvaged for approx 350m in blue books and salvage.
This would lower the reliance on capital escalations and encourage people in to there static to farm these sites. YESSSSSSS PLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
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Ziirn
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
38
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 15:32:24 -
[19] - Quote
corbexx wrote:
1 Lower the capital escalations in C5 to 2 waves of 6 sleeper guardians, and C6 to 2 waves of 9. Then adding a can at the end of the site, that appears when all the none capital escalation waves are cleared (sleeper store house, what ever) that can be salvaged for approx 350m in blue books and salvage.
This would lower the reliance on capital escalations and encourage people in to there static to farm these sites.
All sounded ok except this one. For the first of things we allready run sites in our static since we don't get enough sites to run. C5 wh's don't get tons of new spawns everyday like C6 wh's do. There are less C6 wh's so more of them are farmed to completion/triggered so you can get fresh sites in your wh. I been told NOHO runs about 10 escalations a day. Thats numbers we could only dream about. Though guess with 20% alliance tax you need to bear alot ;) |
chris elliot
SiIhouette Shadow Cartel
417
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 15:32:52 -
[20] - Quote
Can you do something to make mags and radars worth doing for something besides the escalation and Talocan wrecks? |
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
1960
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 16:01:49 -
[21] - Quote
I don't really like the idea of adding more escalations. If the low class sites need to be more valuable then simply increase the loot drops or the number of sleepers in the last wave.
I like the idea for the officer sleeper but i think there should be a chance of these spawning wherever you fully complete a site. The number of bodyguards should increase for every player in the site but they shouldn't drop any (or very little) loot. It would be cool if they dropped existing items like ascendancy implants also.
Also, please read THIS
+1
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Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
186
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 16:19:32 -
[22] - Quote
Random is good
Sleeper officers ala burner rats is a great idea but should be something that can occur in any class wormhole from completion of any site. It could promote more PvP-like fits for PvE runners and would all around be a nice addition to PvE. Make them drop loot like a much higher level sleeper. The chances of you getting and introducing new "sleeper faction" modules is probably highly unlikely (no offense) so concentrate on standard, but increased loot drops. This could be extended to all PvE sites and even ore/gas anoms.
Add potential "respawns" to ore and gas anomalies and randomize the timer. The static 20 minute(ish) timer means the site is a known quantity and once cleared, is safe for endless harvesting.
Anything that you can come up with to make PvE scale with the people involved would go a long way to improving the quality of PvE efforts. It is not an easy nut to crack. I don't like escalations as the answer as it often simply draws a line in the sand to say "bring this many people for optimal farming". Anything less than that is locked out.
I'd like to see something more adaptive. Warp in two players? One segment of each wave randomly doubles in quantity. Warp in a ship using remote reps? A wave of random neut sleepers possibly spawns which focus on logistics using ships. Once you start to layer these things up, warping in 4 players with remote reps could result in a significant increase in targets, DPS, and difficulty without the static "do this, get that" play of the typical escalation. Maybe this is outside the realm of the existing tools but I think pushing towards that type of semi-random changes to sites resulting in increased loot drops/targets would go a long way to making PvE more interesting. |
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's Wormhole Clown Car
33
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 16:22:58 -
[23] - Quote
The main thing that feels off to me about cap escalations is that you can repeat them. Once it's started or done, that should be it. And provide an additional incentive to finish those off by moving some of the guardians (like 2 or so) from cap escalation waves to a 3rd reinforcement wave (at least I remember 2 being there right....it is early and I am tired).
I think most are ok with lower tier wh space getting some sort of escalation. |
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's Wormhole Clown Car
33
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 16:26:18 -
[24] - Quote
Obil Que wrote:Random is good Anything that you can come up with to make PvE scale with the people involved would go a long way to improving the quality of PvE efforts. It is not an easy nut to crack. I don't like escalations as the answer as it often simply draws a line in the sand to say "bring this many people for optimal farming". Anything less than that is locked out.
only thing i don't like about that is that it breaks the natural barrier for mega corps/alliances in wh space. I like that it's hard for larger organizations to live off of their home. It provides an additional incentive for smaller corps to form and live outside of those structures.
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Keith Planck
Lazerhawks
945
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 16:28:40 -
[25] - Quote
Rage rolling will generally become a thing of the past after all the farmers move out (that haven't already).
"Jack Miton liked your forum post:"
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Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
186
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 16:45:11 -
[26] - Quote
Ghenghis Kralj wrote:Obil Que wrote:Random is good Anything that you can come up with to make PvE scale with the people involved would go a long way to improving the quality of PvE efforts. It is not an easy nut to crack. I don't like escalations as the answer as it often simply draws a line in the sand to say "bring this many people for optimal farming". Anything less than that is locked out.
only thing i don't like about that is that it breaks the natural barrier for mega corps/alliances in wh space. I like that it's hard for larger organizations to live off of their home. It provides an additional incentive for smaller corps to form and live outside of those structures.
An upper cap on the "random" wouldn't be hard to do. The current escalation mechanic proposed favors larger organizations that can easily field 6 or more pilots. I'm looking at it from the side of a group that perhaps normally runs with 2-4 people and hoping there is a way to incorporate added value while not making it just a static escalation mechanic. |
corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
906
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:19:48 -
[27] - Quote
Obil Que wrote:Random is good
The chances of you getting and introducing new "sleeper faction" modules is probably highly unlikely
you say this but in the recent dev blog there is new weapons coming out.
Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better
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Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
186
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:32:08 -
[28] - Quote
corbexx wrote:Obil Que wrote:Random is good
The chances of you getting and introducing new "sleeper faction" modules is probably highly unlikely you say this but in the recent dev blog there is new weapons coming out.
I think what CCP wants to do, they do I think proposing new modules as part of a PvE fix/enhancement/etc is less likely to occur and I would fear that any proposal that relies upon "new items" at it's core would then be looked on less favorably than simply extending existing items. New items have significant ripple effects in their application and thus require much more work to introduce vs. just dropping "stuff"
Truth is, when talking about worth, I don't care if a green item drops or a blue loot, just that it has value.
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Teleil Zoomers
Usque Ad Mortem TCC.
4
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Posted - 2014.11.11 19:30:41 -
[29] - Quote
great ideas for the mini escalations.
would like to see the isk buffed up a little bit.
if you are going to field that many ships to run a mini escalation then at c4 being the highest 50m doesnt seem like a whole lot per pilot for the trouble. |
Chesterfield Fancypantz
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation
25
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Posted - 2014.11.12 01:47:39 -
[30] - Quote
Now this is a thread that I have been encouraged to post my/corbex suggestion for capital escalation fixes.
Remove the capital escalation value added and instead put it into the base site to be given at the end of clearing the entire site totally (non escalation waves). There would also need to be a slight boost to the base site income to encourage people to raid static.
What this does is leaves the payout relatively the same but creating a risk/reward system to create some conflict about getting that much money. Either you take the 700+base site payout the first day, and clear the site, or you take a risk of it being stolen from you on your off time.
What I feel that this would do, is not only reduce the amount of money that bears make who really shouldn't be in c5s, but encourage people to raid their static trying to find people who have been running capital sites and leaving them.
An under rated side effect of this is the fights between the major groups. If hard knocks connects to lazerhawks, they can just go into their sites with t3's and clear them. This creates content from the major groups by giving something worth while to fight over, especially fights in home systems which dont really happen.
I think the most important part about this change is that it should encourage people to get into the statics more to be a way of consistently making high money, rather then just closing out your wormholes and doing some quick capital escalations. Mid/low level bears CAN STILL make money even high money, but it isnt basically risk free any more. Mid level groups (like mine) would likely double/triple escalate and take some risk while taking a good influx of money. |
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