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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
269
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Posted - 2014.12.03 19:02:17 -
[241] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:This thing isn't a souped up T1 destroyer, it's a souped up Interdictor. Resist profile + other stats look more like T2 dessie than T1 dessie. Fleets of these things are going to rule everywhere. They will clear out support ships like nobody's business and make fleet warfare very monolithic. Small plexes just got real boring as well.
They'll go down to what, like three volleys from a sentry ishtar?
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almanac Omaristos
Hollow Blood Hunters Surely You're Joking
4
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Posted - 2014.12.03 19:03:36 -
[242] - Quote
You see in the hours of testing I've performed with the ship it was actual testing of the ship against your standard fitted t2 interceptor and assault frigs it wasn't shooting at random people and whoring on the kill mail right before they die to a titan. The test I did were performed with many different brawling and snipping fits all of them had a 1/10 win ratio against your standard t2 frig. Why should I pay 40 mill on a crappy ship when I can buy a cheaper and more effective one for 20? The ship its self with the bounses it currently has makes it an utter waste of time and effort
Please note that these ships died even after they were fitted to directly counter the other ships[/quote]seeing as my kills were not the whoring you believe they were I still disagree. This ship is very effective. Granted, I have not had any successful brawls in it, but I did manage to take down a T1 cruiser or two as well. [/quote]
the majority of my test where conducted against frigs only, Ill test out a few sniping against a few t1 cruisers. Destroyers have always been advertised as an anti frig platform , a hard counter to interceptors and assault frigs.
Maybe its just a good anti t1 cruiser platform? still though 40 mill is more expensive then a lot of t1 cruisers. I'm extremely skeptical but ill give it a try.
EDIT: Rowells do you believe it needs a tracking bonuses? or some kind of buff?>[/quote]if it did get a tracking bonus I would imagine it would need to make sacrifices elsewhere, or it would be put in a separate mode from the sniping one. I only think it becomes an issue when you are trying to hit ships going extremely fast (5k/s+) and getting well within weapons range. That was one of the issues I ran into with pulses. Simply not applying the same damage as aurora, while also taking damage.
I think the biggest issue it suffers is being a destroyer. The same reasons that most destroyers die so easily also plague this ship, albeit less so since it can switch modes. And because it's modes are very clear cut and its damage predictable, hard counters will not be difficult to find. That being said, this ship also has great strengths which make it excellent as a kiter and sniper.
Maybe I'm a little biased by the probe bonus (it's awesome imo) but I do believe it's versatility is still pretty limited to supporting its strongest position as a sniper.
E: to clarify, the most likely victim of an added tracking bonus would be the damage bonus from tactical destroyer skill.[/quote]
If it did get a tracking bonus they would have to lower the damage bonuses from 10% to 5% and maybe take out the bonuses to capacitor as well. the bonuses may look like 5% damage 5% tracking __________
actually as a side note I wouldn't mind if the confessor had the same bonuses as the apoc
7.5% tracking 7.5% to optimal range
the latter would simply be better as it does in fact add a lot of versatility to both pulses and beams optimal range increases survivability and these bonuses would get a bit crazy with the added mods. there is reason the apoc is a fleet comp of many null sec empires these bonuses would apply nicely to the ship and the dps its able to apply.
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Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
466
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Posted - 2014.12.03 22:29:14 -
[243] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:This thing isn't a souped up T1 destroyer, it's a souped up Interdictor. Resist profile + other stats look more like T2 dessie than T1 dessie. Fleets of these things are going to rule everywhere. They will clear out support ships like nobody's business and make fleet warfare very monolithic. Small plexes just got real boring as well. this wont be anything like the beam coercer from the days before the coercer nerf.
it doesnt have the tracking bonus like the coercer and thus will suck.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Shadow of xXDEATHXx
407
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Posted - 2014.12.04 03:13:33 -
[244] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Goldensaver wrote: No, it'd take a lot less time because of the huge increase to max velocity. You take a fraction of your align time to reach 33% of your max velocity, but that's 100% of your max velocity when you switch from Propulsion to anything else. Combine that with the inertia bonus vastly improving your acceleration/align time already and what was a 7s align time (in another mode) is now a 1s timer to reach 33% speed, then 1s more for the server to change your mode.
Numbers are approximate. I haven't gotten to play with it yet. I don't know what the align time is like with skills.
Your maths needs some work. It's +2/3rds velocity, not +200% So if your velocity was 166 when in Prop mode, it's 100 out of prop mode or 60%. It will speed it up, but it will not speed it up as much as what you are stating. I forgot how to numbers. Regardless, still a hell of a lot faster to warp by using this mechanic. |
Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
80
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Posted - 2014.12.04 12:55:34 -
[245] - Quote
The Confessor is a terrible destroyer. As a frig its a good frigate but as a t3 dessie then quite frankly the Interdictors does it better.
Sure it can out damage stuff at close range but then loses out to Blasters. and even at long range the LML Heretic and Flycatcher out DPS/Alpha and out range the confessor even in sniper mode with beams. Hell a rail eris out ranges it (btw these dessie have no damage mods, but the confessor does)
The only thing the confessor does better is tank but the trade off for this cripples the ship when compared to the Interdictors.
Sure being able to change modes is great and all that but when the interdictors can out preform 2 of the 3 modes while still and coming close to the third, and yet still doing good dps, good projection and better fitting
Right now to me the confessor is not worth the investment
So Much Space
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almanac Omaristos
Hollow Blood Hunters Surely You're Joking
4
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Posted - 2014.12.04 13:02:48 -
[246] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hello one and all! We are now ready to start the official thread for the first Tech 3 Tactical Destroyer, the Amarr Confessor. The Amarr version of the Tactical Destroyers will be releasing first because the Amarrian loyalists won the recent ingame event involving sleeper components. The next Tactical Destroyer will be released by the Minmatar Republic. The main feature of this ship is the ability to change between three distinct modes on the fly, with three different sets of dramatic bonuses. This represents another alternative approach to the versatility that sets Tech 3 apart. You can switch between the modes using a new set of buttons beside the ship HUD, which can be hotkeyed. We are planning to set the default hotkeys to SHIFT 1, 2 and 3. The modes are: Defense Mode, with bonuses to armor resists and signature radius Propulsion Mode, which improves speed and agility Sharpshooter Mode, which increases laser optimal range and all aspects of the ship's sensors The Tactical Destroyers do not use subsystems, and there is no skill loss on ship destruction. The Confessor requires a new Rank 3 skill called Amarr Tactical Destroyer, which in turn only requires Amarr Destroyers level 5 to train. Tactical Destroyers will have access to all acceleration gates that allow passage of Interdictors. This includes FW Small Complexes. If we begin to see a need to restrict their access further in the future (for instance if they start completely dominating FW) we'll adjust their gate access as necessary. The ship itself is created using a similar process to Strategic Cruisers, using materials harvested in wormhole space and with blueprints invented from new Small Hull Section relics that can be obtained from derelict talocan ships in sleeper sites. We expect the price to eventually settle somewhere around 40m isk, although of course any estimate at this time will be inexact and you can expect the price to be very high at first. Alongside the new ship, we are also deploying some tweaks to pulse lasers and scorch ammo, as well as small beam lasers. CONFESSORAmarr Tactical Destroyer Bonuses Per Level:10% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret capacitor use 5% reduction in heat damage generated by modules Role Bonus:95% reduction in Scan Probe Launcher CPU requirements Additional bonuses are available when one of three Tactical Destroyer Modes are active. Modes may be changed no more than once every 10 seconds. Defense Mode:33.3% bonus to all armor resistances whole Defense Mode is active 33.3% reduction in ship signature radius while Defense Mode is active Propulsion Mode:66.6% bonus to maximum velocity while Propulsion Mode is active 33.3% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is active Sharpshooter Mode:66.6% bonus to Small Energy Turret optimal range while Sharpshooter Mode is active 100% bonus to sensor strength, scan resolution and targeting range while Sharpshooter Mode is active Slot layout: 7 H, 3 M, 5 L, 6 turrets , 0 launchers 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 80 PWG, 190 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 600 / 800 / 750 Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 55 / 75 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 43.75 / 60 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 800 / 300s / 2.667 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 280 / 2.15 / 2,400,000 / 4.5 / 7.15s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 350 / 7 Sensor strength: 13 Radar Signature radius: 60 Cargo capacity: 400
SOoo Fozzie we already have a few people complaining the ship isn't worth it.. Are you guys gonna take another look at it or just leave it as is? |
AnimeHeretic
Starcade Group Elemental Tide
6
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Posted - 2014.12.04 15:50:06 -
[247] - Quote
Still not a single dev reply.
Honestly I would be good if the laser cap bonus was dropped for a tracking bonus. And it had a bit more base hp. But it will. Likely release as is.
Whelp. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4429
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Posted - 2014.12.04 16:04:52 -
[248] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:... The Confessor requires a new Rank 3 skill called Amarr Tactical Destroyer, which in turn only requires Amarr Destroyers level 5 to train.
... Where and when will this skill become available, assuming this requirement doesn't evolve differently? (Will it be available before release of the ship, etc)
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
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Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
428
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Posted - 2014.12.04 21:14:15 -
[249] - Quote
AnimeHeretic wrote:Still not a single dev reply.
Honestly I would be good if the laser cap bonus was dropped for a tracking bonus. And it had a bit more base hp. But it will. Likely release as is.
Whelp. Hoping this is the case. They could drop the cap usage bonus and up the cap regen a bunch and it'd be a helluva lot better than the current setup. Cap usage bonus=wasted, pointless bonus that can be rolled into the ship or eliminated entirely. |
Jean Luc Lemmont
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
384
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Posted - 2014.12.04 21:48:28 -
[250] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:... The Confessor requires a new Rank 3 skill called Amarr Tactical Destroyer, which in turn only requires Amarr Destroyers level 5 to train.
... Where and when will this skill become available, assuming this requirement doesn't evolve differently? (Will it be available before release of the ship, etc)
Assuming you already have racial destroyer 5 you can be flying one of these in under a half hour. How fast do you need to be able to fly one given that they'll have to be invented and built before they even show up on the market?
Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!
This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury
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SheoFapped
Sheo's Place
6
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Posted - 2014.12.05 18:59:40 -
[251] - Quote
Make minmatar use light missiles so we can take advantage of speed mode the dirty way! YES! |
AnimeHeretic
Starcade Group Elemental Tide
7
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Posted - 2014.12.06 20:08:28 -
[252] - Quote
Seems we got forgotten about here in the confessor thread.
Hopefully the winmatar d3 is better thought out. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
1960
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Posted - 2014.12.06 23:24:24 -
[253] - Quote
I think 6 pages of nerd sperge which was not well thought out is what's holding back the debate here. When CCP sees 6 pages of what amounts to an excited puppy wagging it's tail it' is easy for them to get complacent and not read the thoughts of people who actually have a brain and can put two and two together.
My opinion is that the Confessor is pretty sub-par, but that fact obviously won't stop people flying it for the first little while.
I foresee that this boat will become an expensive and sub-par alternative to the Retribution in AF fleets. It will be sent in to small FW plexes as heavy tackle just like a Vengeance, because it doesn't matter if you can't track anything if your job is just to tackle.
It will be favoured in wormholes because unlike most destroyers it won't evaporate at the drop of a hat and can catch some sick RR due to the resist profile - in W-R systems it will do a lot better thanks to the double armour buffer and maddening DPS buff. Which is a "no, duh" revelation, i am sure.
Solo meta is...well, why would you bother? just fly a Worm, it can tank more than a Confessor and has stupid drones.
J's before K's.
Prolapse. Turning holes inside out with pew pew.
http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent
911
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Posted - 2014.12.07 00:47:16 -
[254] - Quote
I've been playing with Confessors on sisi for the last few days. They are really tight on fitting, mostly CPU.
As far as where to fit them on the power scale, I would say they are slight worse than T1 cruisers. I keep wanting to take on HACs and Recons. But they don't have the chops for it. They're kind of like a mini-Zealot, but better within their size category.
For a beam fit, if you want an MWD you get a rather poor buffer and still require 2-3 fitting mods/rigs. That being said, I like 50km range on small beams.
Swapping modes on the fly is really smooth and works well with a little practice.
Pulse fits are noticably easier. I think this has to do more with the differences between pulse and beams. Maybe reduce the fitting requirements for beams a little?
Once I got to Tactical Destroyer 4 I found my initial crappy cap was vastly improved.
I want to emphasize again that mode swapping is incredibly smooth and very easy to use. The 10 second cooldown between swapping modes is long enough to sometimes make me wish I hadn't swapped. But short enough to not feel like a penalty. Really good job on making this mechanic work right.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Demon Forth
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.12.07 12:21:01 -
[255] - Quote
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:Assuming you already have racial destroyer 5 you can be flying one of these in under a half hour. How fast do you need to be able to fly one given that they'll have to be invented and built before they even show up on the market?
The laser buffs are tied to the Tactical Destroyer skill. So what you'll get in under a half hour is
10% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret capacitor use 5% reduction in heat damage generated by modules
So, flying an 8-gun Coercer with 50% versions of those first two numbers? You're not going to love the 6-gun Confessor's damage at Tactical Destroyer level 1.
So yeah I would've liked to have had the opportunity to put SP into this skill before Rhea.
Although even after the skill is at level 5, and your six guns are finally, individually, having the numbers you remember the Coercer having, all the Confessor gives you is a little bit of range in one mode, more heat, and, well, if mode-switching keeps you alive longer, then I guess you get to shoot longer. I guess living Confessors will sometimes out-damage dead Coercers.
Soldarius wrote:Once I got to Tactical Destroyer 4 I found my initial crappy cap was vastly improved.
Well, yeah. But that 'initial crappy cap' is the very best capacitor of the Amarrian destroyers. It's even better than the Dragoon's cap, which is so good because it was a first-draft capacitor role bonus that got rolled into ship stats and replaced. If this ship ever seemed to have cap problems, it's only because its guns aren't bonused by the Destroyers skill. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
211
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Posted - 2014.12.07 15:51:38 -
[256] - Quote
so the last time that you guys "rebalanced" medium turrets we wound up with long range guns doing more damage than short. I'm not sure if this is still the case or if it has been fixed but my point is why are you messing with all small lazors in general just to introduce a new ship?
Most of the stuff you guys touch you break so I would suggest you mess with as little stuff as possible but you guys seem to be like teenagers on prom night and want to rub your pricks on everything.
May I suggest that before you start messing with something you have a clear well defined goal with specific metrics by which after implementation it can be checked to see if the desired results occurred and if not what needs to be adjusted. Further try to theory-craft on how this will affect similar things like other small turrets and small weapon systems in general as well as the balance between small versus medium and large etc.
So a while back you introduced sleeper AI to K space which was a defacto drone nerf for PvE since having to recall and redeploy drones more often in combat meant less seconds in combat so while not a dps nerf it was an "s" nerf which meant more time needed to kill **** which means lower bounty ticks for anyone using drones. So now if you Make lazors more effective then you "rebalance" projectiles and Hybrids to compensate where does that leave missiles and drones? Even if you could balance all of that where does that leave mining as compared to combat for isk earning?
IMHO the bounty tick is one of the most important numbers in game that you guys can look at for balance. While it's true that not everyone in game grinds anoms for hours on end to earn isk strictly from bounty ticks it does have a way of removing all the bullshit numbers and getting down to how much isk per hour can I earn.
Luckily I have enough skill points that I can fly what ever you decide to make the flavor of the month or should I say the flavor of the six week development cycle. However for newer players it's not the same. You change things around now and they start cross training to a different race or different combat system just so six weeks later before they can even use the FotM you change it up on them again. In the words of my grandfather "That's enough to **** off the pope". |
DrysonBennington
Aliastra Gallente Federation
195
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Posted - 2014.12.07 17:09:34 -
[257] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:So looking forward to this and o ticked off that Gallente will be last.
m
Don't be so ticked off at the Gallente ship coming out last....it means that the Gallente will be able to study the rest of the races ships for a longer period of time in order to better understand how to destroy the other three ships more effectively while reducing the Gallente cost of destroying such ships.
Being last doesn't me being in last place. Being last means that you know how everyone else around you has reacted to their placement.
4th is First. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1896
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Posted - 2014.12.07 20:52:46 -
[258] - Quote
This thing would be much more interesting if it wasn't so horribly limited in its fitting capability. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
433
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Posted - 2014.12.07 21:36:23 -
[259] - Quote
I can say I'm going already going to be a lot more impressed by the caldari and minmatar destroyers when they come out; assuming the Caldari one does missiles and the minmatar one does projectiles, they likely won't see the same issues with capacitor and tracking speed that the Confessor will have. Pray that the gallente don't get a drone t3 destroyer. |
Nou Mene
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
1
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Posted - 2014.12.08 04:20:25 -
[260] - Quote
im expecting active tanking bonus for minmie and gallente...
i thought speed mode would be something like ab or mwd bonus (depending on race)
expect them not to have the exact same bonus...
nice ship, :) |
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prolix travail
Blue Mountain Trails
23
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Posted - 2014.12.08 18:22:33 -
[261] - Quote
It would be overpowered if it got a tracking bonus and better fitting. As it is you can do 190dps at 45km all the way to 328dps at 7.5km with the same fit while tanking 123dps on its lowest ressit with 6.9k ehp. The only issue is in web / scram range you're going to be boned because of tracking, which is as it should be.
If you want immunity to scrams then you can do that but you lose fitting for tank. It seems nicely balanced in those respects. |
almanac Omaristos
Hollow Blood Hunters Surely You're Joking
6
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Posted - 2014.12.08 19:02:18 -
[262] - Quote
prolix travail wrote: The only issue is in web / scram range you're going to be boned because of tracking, which is as it should be.
If you want immunity to scrams then you can do that but you lose fitting for tank. It seems nicely balanced in those respects.
says the Caldari pilot
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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3592
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Posted - 2014.12.09 17:31:01 -
[263] - Quote
AnimeHeretic wrote:Hopefully the winmatar d3 is better thought out. I'll just wait until they release the Gallente one, it's the only one which will be worth flying.
Oh god.
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notha atfast
Periphery Bound Dominatus Atrum Mortis
40
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Posted - 2014.12.09 17:55:17 -
[264] - Quote
Where can I build these things? It's not working in the subsystem array...is there a new array or the small advanced ??
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PavelGagarin
H.E.L.I.X NEOS FLEET
0
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Posted - 2014.12.09 18:01:54 -
[265] - Quote
Will it possible to recive tech 3 destroyers from LP shop? |
Fred Kyong
EWH NanoTex
9
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Posted - 2014.12.09 22:05:42 -
[266] - Quote
I always think it is funny that there are new ships introduced and then the market has absolutely 0 after the update. Did the update fail? |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
The Conference Elite CODE.
1189
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Posted - 2014.12.09 22:23:55 -
[267] - Quote
Fred Kyong wrote:I always think it is funny that there are new ships introduced and then the market has absolutely 0 after the update. Did the update fail? They have to be built before hitting the market lol.
New player resources:
Uni Wiki - General Info
Eve Altruist - PvP
Belligerent Undesirables - High Sec Pvp
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
7337
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Posted - 2014.12.09 22:30:40 -
[268] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Fred Kyong wrote:I always think it is funny that there are new ships introduced and then the market has absolutely 0 after the update. Did the update fail? They have to be built before hitting the market lol. More than that, they need research first.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Fred Kyong
EWH NanoTex
9
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Posted - 2014.12.09 22:35:33 -
[269] - Quote
So no NPC station have them yet? Thats lame. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1809
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Posted - 2014.12.09 23:08:55 -
[270] - Quote
Fred Kyong wrote:So no NPC station have them yet? Thats lame. Why would they? |
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