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Elcho
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.01.15 15:46:32 -
[1] - Quote
This is one of those what race should I pick threads. Now I do understand that in the larger scheme of things your race picks don't matter, since you can train for any ship, plus you can always relocate or pick your side in FW. However, I'm sure everyone tends to pick one race's ships more often than not. That there's a sort of baseline line of ships they take from a race, and other racial ships they pick and choose as the situation demands.
Maybe this isn't the case for everyone, but for those that have one, what's a baseline race you'd recommend?
(I know the FOTM changes over time, so what would you say for now? Also not Minmatar, cause I personally just cannot stand the aesthetics of their ships) |
Jasmin Molotov
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
13
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Posted - 2015.01.15 15:48:29 -
[2] - Quote
For the time being, you can't go wrong with Gallente. Hybrid turrets, armor tanking and especially drones are all in a pretty good place right now. |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5456
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Posted - 2015.01.15 15:51:13 -
[3] - Quote
A. Drop the "I hate the looks" reasoning. I hate flathead screwdrivers, but if I have a flathead screw, I hate to use it as it is the best tool for the job.
B. FotM at thid moment is Ishtars.
C. I personally dont like a certain race. I look at what job I will have to fill and then look in the toolbox which tool suits best for that job. This can be a damping maulus, an ECM griffin, a neuting sentinel or the webbing hyena. It just matters what I have to do today that gets the preferance.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
226
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Posted - 2015.01.15 15:54:34 -
[4] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:A. Drop the "I hate the looks" reasoning. I hate flathead screwdrivers, but if I have a flathead screw, I hate to use it as it is the best tool for the job. .....
Friendly reminder that sometimes the ships 'job' is simply to look pretty zooming about space simply so we can enjoy the scenery thinking 'zoom, woosh' like some calvin and hobbs cartoon |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
8519
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Posted - 2015.01.15 15:55:54 -
[5] - Quote
Cross train, always cross train.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Gregor Parud
911
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Posted - 2015.01.15 17:44:56 -
[6] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Cross train, always cross train.
Heresy! |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
8520
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Posted - 2015.01.15 18:10:08 -
[7] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Cross train, always cross train. Heresy! not if you don't enjoy it
just say 10 hail Jamil's and leave something in the something in the poor box and it'l be fine.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
854
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Posted - 2015.01.15 18:17:44 -
[8] - Quote
Honestly doesn't matter.
The base racial frigate 3 you get for choosing a certain race is like 3 hours of training.
Just pick what you like. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7515
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Posted - 2015.01.15 18:20:08 -
[9] - Quote
Elcho wrote: However, I'm sure everyone tends to pick one race's ships more often than not.
Gallente.
Best looking race with the best looking ships.
That's all I have to say on the matter.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Ed MarKeen
East Domain Inc.
6
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Posted - 2015.01.15 19:58:02 -
[10] - Quote
The difference is just on a racial frigate skill, a small turret skill and few other skills trained to a very basic level. It will take only few hours to train a new character to the same level for all other racial frigate and small turrets skills.
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5463
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Posted - 2015.01.15 20:07:05 -
[11] - Quote
I wonder why people all assume this is just about frigates
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
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Ed MarKeen
East Domain Inc.
6
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Posted - 2015.01.15 20:10:15 -
[12] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:I wonder why people all assume this is just about frigates
Maybe because frigates is the only ship class already trained when you create a brand new character.
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Justin Zaine
121
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Posted - 2015.01.15 20:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ed MarKeen wrote:J'Poll wrote:I wonder why people all assume this is just about frigates Maybe because frigates is the only ship class already trained when you create a brand new character.
Or because if you want to train "Properly" frigs are about the only thing a new player should be flying. |
Justin Zaine
121
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Posted - 2015.01.15 20:38:08 -
[14] - Quote
To answer the question, It totally depends on what you wanna do. Ships are more balanced these days than they ever have been. Just fly what you think is sexy and the rest will sort itself out.
It's kinda like being married. If you're gonna spend the rest of your life with someone, they better be able to make you come. If they can do that, the rest just kinda works itself out. |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5468
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Posted - 2015.01.15 20:41:34 -
[15] - Quote
Justin Zaine wrote:Ed MarKeen wrote:J'Poll wrote:I wonder why people all assume this is just about frigates Maybe because frigates is the only ship class already trained when you create a brand new character. Or because if you want to train "Properly" frigs are about the only thing a new player should be flying.
Or...
Maybe, he is asking so he can plot a longer term goal...you know that people also do that, ask information so they can set their goals in a smart way.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
854
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Posted - 2015.01.15 20:44:43 -
[16] - Quote
long term goals makes your starting race irrelevant as it's only a few hours. |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5469
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Posted - 2015.01.15 20:49:58 -
[17] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:long term goals makes your starting race irrelevant as it's only a few hours.
Ooh, I totally agree.
But it does make sense just to come to the forum and ask about what us vets love to fly.
Just to see what other people like and why...
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Justin Zaine
121
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Posted - 2015.01.15 20:57:02 -
[18] - Quote
Quote:Or...
Maybe, he is asking so he can plot a longer term goal...you know that people also do that, ask information so they can set their goals in a smart way.
OP never mentioned that is was limited to ships he currently can fly, nor did he specify he will be flying bigger then frigates. He was just asking about ship-lines in general.
Yeah, sure thats possible. Just adding food for thought.
But to ask about racial baselines, at least to me, would indicate that someone is looking for a good all-round race so that they don't have to do much cross training in the future. Because if you don't care about cross training, baselines mean nothing. Baselines are only really a concern if you're trying to get the most effective training out of a small amount of time.
I'd still say fly what you think is pretty, and start with frigs if you haven't already. As you get into the larger ships, less and less people tend to fly what they like the look of and instead fly what is most effective, therefore baselines matter much less. |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5469
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Posted - 2015.01.15 20:59:32 -
[19] - Quote
Justin Zaine wrote:Quote:Or...
Maybe, he is asking so he can plot a longer term goal...you know that people also do that, ask information so they can set their goals in a smart way.
OP never mentioned that is was limited to ships he currently can fly, nor did he specify he will be flying bigger then frigates. He was just asking about ship-lines in general. Yeah, sure thats possible. Just adding food for thought. But to ask about racial baselines, at least to me, would indicate that someone is looking for a good all-round race so that they don't have to do much cross training in the future. Because if you don't care about cross training, baselines mean nothing. Baselines are only really a concern if you're trying to get the most effective training out of a small amount of time. I'd still say fly what you think is pretty, and start with frigs if you haven't already. As you get into the larger ships, less and less people tend to fly what they like the look of and tend to fly what is most effective, therefore baselines matter much less.
Well, I do agree. Start with frigates, you will find out they are quite fun to fly in the end. Especially when you get to the bigger ships, you will understand that frigates are just as fun and useful.
But, I don't agree that looks should ever be important. Sure, count them with them. But using a ship that is NOT useful in the situation, just cause it looks good is silly and will actually ruin your game more then it will help you.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
854
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Posted - 2015.01.15 21:00:03 -
[20] - Quote
gallente just cuz drones and hulltank |
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Justin Zaine
124
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Posted - 2015.01.15 21:23:46 -
[21] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Justin Zaine wrote:Quote:Or...
Maybe, he is asking so he can plot a longer term goal...you know that people also do that, ask information so they can set their goals in a smart way.
OP never mentioned that is was limited to ships he currently can fly, nor did he specify he will be flying bigger then frigates. He was just asking about ship-lines in general. Yeah, sure thats possible. Just adding food for thought. But to ask about racial baselines, at least to me, would indicate that someone is looking for a good all-round race so that they don't have to do much cross training in the future. Because if you don't care about cross training, baselines mean nothing. Baselines are only really a concern if you're trying to get the most effective training out of a small amount of time. I'd still say fly what you think is pretty, and start with frigs if you haven't already. As you get into the larger ships, less and less people tend to fly what they like the look of and tend to fly what is most effective, therefore baselines matter much less. Well, I do agree. Start with frigates, you will find out they are quite fun to fly in the end. Especially when you get to the bigger ships, you will understand that frigates are just as fun and useful. But, I don't agree that looks should ever be important. Sure, count them with them. But using a ship that is NOT useful in the situation, just cause it looks good is silly and will actually ruin your game more then it will help you.
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you should be the guy to use the least effective tool for the job simply because you like the way it looks. All I'm trying to say is that in a time when ships are more balanced than they ever have been, people should loosely stick to the principal of flying what pleases them. These days here are usually multiple ships capable of performing the same role anyway, with a few exceptions. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
277
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Posted - 2015.01.16 02:38:44 -
[22] - Quote
Ed MarKeen wrote:J'Poll wrote:I wonder why people all assume this is just about frigates Maybe because frigates is the only ship class already trained when you create a brand new character. I got the impression from the OP that he was not asking what race he should role but what racial ship line he should train first.
Since one ship's skill set builds upon the next I'm guessing he wants to avoid cross training a whole bunch right out of the box. Example would be not wanting to train up a whole bunch of shield and missile and caldari ship skills only to find out he should have trained galente and armor and drones. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4409
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Posted - 2015.01.16 02:41:09 -
[23] - Quote
Right now, the best performing mass produceable ships are Gallente armor tanked drone boats. (The Gila performs at least as well but the supply isn't scalable like it is for the Ishtar)
When I started, they were Caldari shield tanked missile boats.
The 'best ship' will change over time. Train into a playstyle you like, then crosstrain for any doctrines you might need at given times.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
277
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Posted - 2015.01.16 02:48:28 -
[24] - Quote
Some tips I would say:
Drones and missiles are more noob friendly
Minmatar mostly shield tank and caldari almost exclusively shield tank.
Gallente and Amarr mostly armor tank.
Since the ship rebalancing I know it's not as bad as it used to be but when I first started Minmatar ships were really bad for newer players and I think to a much smaller degree they are still a little more skill intensive. |
Justin Zaine
124
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Posted - 2015.01.16 03:24:14 -
[25] - Quote
Quote:Drones and missiles are more noob friendly
Really?
Many drone skills are between two and five times training multiplier, It takes a long ass time to train good drone skills and to make it worse, most drone boats need guns to complement their dps. This means you have to train gun skills and drone skills, so If anything I'd say that they're not noob friendly.
Missile skills benefit only missiles, while gun skills benefit projectiles, hybrids and lasers. To train only missile skills is to severely limit your weapon options and ship hulls, Even the theory and formulas behind missiles are difficult for noobs to grasp.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
280
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Posted - 2015.01.16 06:50:29 -
[26] - Quote
Justin Zaine wrote:Quote:Drones and missiles are more noob friendly Really? Many drone skills are between two and five times training multiplier, It takes a long ass time to train good drone skills and to make it worse, most drone boats need guns to complement their dps. This means you have to train gun skills and drone skills, so If anything I'd say that they're not noob friendly. Missile skills benefit only missiles, while gun skills benefit projectiles, hybrids and lasers. To train only missile skills is to severely limit your weapon options and ship hulls, Even the theory and formulas behind missiles are difficult for noobs to grasp. I am surprised that you are surprised. What you said here goes both ways. Most gun boats need to train drones to augment their dps. There are over 47 million skill points in gunnery, 23 million in drones and 24 million in missiles. You have baseline gunnery skills that apply to all guns and therefore need to be trained for your racial gun skills to be worth a crap. Not only that but the gunnery skills are compounding and therefore kind of an exponential growth thing instead of a linear growth thing like drones and missiles are. With drones when you train them up those skills will get used on pretty much any combat ship you fly as well as most mining ships with very few exceptions.
How ever most of the above is not what I was talking about. I was referring mostly to the following:
First that drones and missiles both you can mostly fire and forget. They will go and do their thing and there is nothing that you need to do or can do about how they apply damage barring staying within range.
second, due to the same damage at any range situation drones and missiles both can make for excellent kitting weapons which can be especially useful for new players in PvE since they do not have the tanking skill points nor the in game skill to either tank the damage or know how to use gunnery mechanics to avoid some of it.
Gunnery and tracking can be very complicated and difficult to understand. It is one of the most brought up topics here on the new player Q&A section. With all that new players have to learn about this game I am of the opinioin that in most cases they are better off going with an easier to use weapon until they get the basics of ship piloting and living in new eden down first then when they feel more comfortable with that moving on to gunnery.
With drones and missiles you will pretty much always do damage with guns especially with players with low skill points that don't know how to pilot a ship yet they can miss shot after shot after shot and not understand why.
So Justin this is the first time I've ever even had someone question this. I did not make that claim based purely on my knowledge but many others have said similar things here on the new player Q&A section with regards to gunnery questions so I was under the impression that "guns aren't noob friendly" was a known. I willing to consider that I am incorrect on that.
Also to the OP every person is different and I will acknowledge that I am probably not the best gamer on the planet so it may have taken me longer to pick this stuff up than you. Also worth noting is that when I was new learning skills were still in the game and at the end of my first year most of my skill points were in skills that helped me train other skills and did nothing else. So my first year was surely rougher than new players today.
So I started off Minmatar and tried guns early on and could not kill stuff with them. So I cross trained caldari and ran missions in a drake for a long time. Then I trained: motion prediction, sharp shooter and trajectory Analysis up to 4 or 5. 5 for motion prediction, and then came back and tried guns again and found them so much easier to use than before.
So I am not claiming to be universally correct but that was my experience and my opinion for new players. Put it in context and consider your own ability and likes then come up with your own way. After you do and are a bitter vet like the rest of us come back here and help noobs with your two cents. |
M'pact
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
32
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Posted - 2015.01.16 09:07:11 -
[27] - Quote
My advice for what race to pick for a character: Pick one you will like looking at.
For me, there is no baseline as far as ships go. My ship picks are based first on whether I like the looks of them.
For instance, I cannot stand the glued-together looks of the Ares/Taranis, so I don't fly them. Same with Minmatar interceptors -- they're not to my liking. I fly Amarr and Caldari (yay for new Condor/Raptor/Crow hull!) interceptors instead.
Even just with regular frigates, I only like certain ones: Amarr -- Crucifier, Executioner, Magnate, Tormentor Caldari -- Condor, Kestrel, Merlin Gallente -- Maulus (used to like Incursus and Tristan, but not with new hulls) Minmatar -- Rifter
Or cruisers: Amarr -- Arbitrator, Maller Caldari -- None (maybe the new Blackbird hull, but haven't decided yet) Gallente -- Exequror (yay new hull!) Minmatar -- Stabber
Then again, I don't zoom out and just look at symbols on the screen. I prefer to see the ships themselves.
As always, YMMV...
When I finally do make an impact on this universe, it will reverberate across the entirety of it, and no one will be able to truthfully claim they don't know me.
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Until then, I'll just sit quietly over here, minding my own business...
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Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
216
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Posted - 2015.01.16 11:45:36 -
[28] - Quote
Elcho wrote:This is one of those what race should I pick threads. Now I do understand that in the larger scheme of things your race picks don't matter, since you can train for any ship, plus you can always relocate or pick your side in FW. However, I'm sure everyone tends to pick one race's ships more often than not. That there's a sort of baseline line of ships they take from a race, and other racial ships they pick and choose as the situation demands.
Maybe this isn't the case for everyone, but for those that have one, what's a baseline race you'd recommend?
(I know the FOTM changes over time, so what would you say for now? Also not Minmatar, cause I personally just cannot stand the aesthetics of their ships)
Gallente is probably the answer then train for drone-boats given that you dislike Minmatar ship designs. Will be much easier to skill up like when Caldari missile boats were top dog for so long a time. CCP are busy working on null-sec sov, corp/alliance roles & permissions, and if we're lucky an in-game fitting tool so I don't expect the status quo of Gallente being the 'go-to' tech anytime in the near future.
" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. "-áRick.
" Find out what ? "-áAbraham.
" They're screwing with the wrong people. "-áRick.
Season four.-á-á ' The Walking Dead. ' .
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Charlie Jacobson
284
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Posted - 2015.01.16 14:23:57 -
[29] - Quote
With the removal of skill point loss and clone grades I see no reason not to cross train all the things anymore. My jack of all trades char is great fun. |
Chal0ner
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
100
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Posted - 2015.01.16 14:38:17 -
[30] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Elcho wrote: However, I'm sure everyone tends to pick one race's ships more often than not. Gallente. Best looking race with the best looking ships. That's all I have to say on the matter. Mr Epeen
That sickly green that everyone is outing nowadays ...
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