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Jori McKie
TURN LEFT The Camel Empire
200
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Posted - 2015.02.11 15:27:53 -
[1] - Quote
In particular Machariel and Rattlesnake their prices dropping every two weeks about 10m in price. Now i'm just curious how far down the rabbit hole those two ones might go as the supply via anomalies seems endless (CCP changed the drop rate?) Some numbers, Jita prices as of today: Machs ~475m sell Rattle ~375m sell
Faction BS Tempest and Phoon Issue ~430m sell Raven Navy and Scorpion Navy ~540m sell
T1 BS Maelstrom ~175m sell Raven ~182m sell
Machs and Rattle are both cheaper/equal than most other Faction BS and both perform way better than any Faction BS. I'm asking myself are we going to see Machs and Rattle for like 200m sell? And what does that mean for faction BS. Right now there is very less reason to buy a faction BS and a lot of peeps will skip the T1 BS at 200m. Or will some big alliances make them fleet doctrine ships and prices will rise again.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
--áAbrazzar
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Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
511
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Posted - 2015.02.11 17:58:21 -
[2] - Quote
Jori McKie wrote:s (CCP changed the drop rate?)
I think CCP might have increased the drop rate or escalation rate, but I haven't looked into it and every new patch there are reports of drop rate changes due to good/bad luck anyway.
Jori McKie wrote:I'm asking myself are we going to see Machs and Rattle for like 200m sell?
They cost ~165m to build, if sub 100m pirate BS BPCs ever start showing up on contracts, I'll be buying a few hundred ;).
Jori McKie wrote:And what does that mean for faction BS. Right now there is very less reason to buy a faction BS and a lot of peeps will skip the T1 BS at 200m. Or will some big alliances make them fleet doctrine ships and prices will rise again.
The CNR/SNI fill a niche that no other faction/pirate BS do so there's that. Also pirate ships tend to need different skills than the T1/faction ships people likely skill for first, the Nightmare needs Caldari ship, Amarr ship, Shield and Laser skills while the Rattlesnake needs Gallente ship, Caldari ship, Drone, Shield and Missile skills, both of which require two skill sets that the one of races required to fly it don't need as much.
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Jori McKie
TURN LEFT The Camel Empire
200
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Posted - 2015.02.11 18:49:47 -
[3] - Quote
Right, faction BS cost around 160m to produce, so i guess 200m is a bit overzealous. They should settle between 250 - 300m then. About BPCs below/at 100m, at the current rate i give the Rattlesnake two months. 180m for a Rattle BPC at the weekend isn't rare.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
--áAbrazzar
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Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
511
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Posted - 2015.02.11 19:08:13 -
[4] - Quote
Is exploration even worth doing at these prices?
Not everyone is a 100m SP null sec alliance min maxer :).
.
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Jori McKie
TURN LEFT The Camel Empire
200
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Posted - 2015.02.11 19:14:02 -
[5] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:Is exploration even worth doing at these prices?
Not everyone is a 100m SP null sec alliance min maxer :).
No idea, never done that but it seems a lot of players still doing it because Deadspace prices dropped a lot, too.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
--áAbrazzar
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Nightingale Actault
Big Richard Club Ghosts of Deep Space
115
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Posted - 2015.02.11 19:41:34 -
[6] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:Is exploration even worth doing at these prices?
Consider it the same as trading in volume, even if you don't make as much per sale, the increased escalation chances means the quantity should make up for loss of sale price per individual item.
Given that and the effectiveness of both deadspace modules and pirate ships, I would think these will remain worthy of completing for some time now. Especially given that for those ratting consistently in null for example, these escalations are likely just icing on the cake for their already good ratting income.
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Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
511
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Posted - 2015.02.11 20:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
What I meant was more, 'is the ISK/hour from exploration still much more than other PVE to make it worth doing over something else?', and the prices were in decline before the escalation rate was increased. I wonder if volume has gone up as much as the prices have come down.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4607
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Posted - 2015.02.11 22:54:26 -
[8] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:What I meant was more, 'is the ISK/hour from exploration still much more than other PVE to make it worth doing over something else?', and the prices were in decline before the escalation rate was increased. I wonder if volume has gone up as much as the prices have come down.
The increase comes from anomolies leading to expeditions.
Anomolies aren't run for expeditions (now), they are run for the liquid ISK payout from rat bounties. However, purely doing anomolies is *boring*. Expeditions offer reasonably close ISK per hour from rat bounties, probably 80% of what you get from focused anomolies, plus they do so while being a break from the normal routine.
So they'll continue to be done.
As soon as the anom change was clear, I firesold the remainder of my pirate battleships - I actually dumped some onto buy orders - although I continue to watch the market and look for profitable opportunities to buy cheap BPCs in Jita and build them for resale in other hubs.
The ships outperform their price tags now, but I can't see any big alliance logisticians thinking 'we have enough security of supply to field a Rattlesnake doctrine'. Alliance logisiticians know that if they lose 500 Ishtars they can buy 500 more on the market within an hour if they are willing to overpay, or within a week if they are not. It may not be possible to replace a 500 Machariel fleet at a reasonable price.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
311
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Posted - 2015.02.12 09:11:46 -
[9] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:The ships outperform their price tags now, but I can't see any big alliance logisticians thinking 'we have enough security of supply to field a Rattlesnake doctrine'. Alliance logisiticians know that if they lose 500 Ishtars they can buy 500 more on the market within an hour if they are willing to overpay, or within a week if they are not. It may not be possible to replace a 500 Machariel fleet at a reasonable price. Not sure Nulli Secunda is large enough to qualify as "big alliance" in your context, but we (currently) have a Rattlesnake doctrine. If you put the general issues of a battleship doctrine aside, you'll find that the Rattlesnake is well suited to be a doctrine ship. It's a very tanky ship, which makes it hard to volley it from the field and which usually gives logi the time needed to apply repairs. The special drone bonuses make it feasible to use fleet triggers and the cargo is large enough to bring enough mods to refit for various situations. Plus the DPS is good enough to not be easily ignored.
J'Poll:
EVE doesn't hand out cookies to you.
EVE kicks you down, steals your cookie and then laughs at you for bringing a cookie in the first place.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4610
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Posted - 2015.02.12 10:04:45 -
[10] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:The ships outperform their price tags now, but I can't see any big alliance logisticians thinking 'we have enough security of supply to field a Rattlesnake doctrine'. Alliance logisiticians know that if they lose 500 Ishtars they can buy 500 more on the market within an hour if they are willing to overpay, or within a week if they are not. It may not be possible to replace a 500 Machariel fleet at a reasonable price. Not sure Nulli Secunda is large enough to qualify as "big alliance" in your context, but we (currently) have a Rattlesnake doctrine. If you put the general issues of a battleship doctrine aside, you'll find that the Rattlesnake is well suited to be a doctrine ship. It's a very tanky ship, which makes it hard to volley it from the field and which usually gives logi the time needed to apply repairs. The special drone bonuses make it feasible to use fleet triggers and the cargo is large enough to bring enough mods to refit for various situations. Plus the DPS is good enough to not be easily ignored.
I agree the Rattlesnake is an excellent fleet combat ship, I just think you are in for a nasty, nasty shock if you lose a fleet of them to a well laid trap and unexpected massive escalation.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Nightingale Actault
Big Richard Club
115
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Posted - 2015.02.12 12:59:59 -
[11] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Myriad Blaze wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:The ships outperform their price tags now, but I can't see any big alliance logisticians thinking 'we have enough security of supply to field a Rattlesnake doctrine'. Alliance logisiticians know that if they lose 500 Ishtars they can buy 500 more on the market within an hour if they are willing to overpay, or within a week if they are not. It may not be possible to replace a 500 Machariel fleet at a reasonable price. Not sure Nulli Secunda is large enough to qualify as "big alliance" in your context, but we (currently) have a Rattlesnake doctrine. If you put the general issues of a battleship doctrine aside, you'll find that the Rattlesnake is well suited to be a doctrine ship. It's a very tanky ship, which makes it hard to volley it from the field and which usually gives logi the time needed to apply repairs. The special drone bonuses make it feasible to use fleet triggers and the cargo is large enough to bring enough mods to refit for various situations. Plus the DPS is good enough to not be easily ignored. I agree the Rattlesnake is an excellent fleet combat ship, I just think you are in for a nasty, nasty shock if you lose a fleet of them to a well laid trap and unexpected massive escalation.
I don't live in NS so my information could be fairly inaccurate here... but I'm fairly certain I've been seeing lots of BRs regarding Rattlesnake doctrines being fielded and wiped out or incurring significant losses on a fairly consistent basis. Not without dealing their fair share as well though. |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
545
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Posted - 2015.02.17 02:00:37 -
[12] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Myriad Blaze wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:The ships outperform their price tags now, but I can't see any big alliance logisticians thinking 'we have enough security of supply to field a Rattlesnake doctrine'. Alliance logisiticians know that if they lose 500 Ishtars they can buy 500 more on the market within an hour if they are willing to overpay, or within a week if they are not. It may not be possible to replace a 500 Machariel fleet at a reasonable price. Not sure Nulli Secunda is large enough to qualify as "big alliance" in your context, but we (currently) have a Rattlesnake doctrine. If you put the general issues of a battleship doctrine aside, you'll find that the Rattlesnake is well suited to be a doctrine ship. It's a very tanky ship, which makes it hard to volley it from the field and which usually gives logi the time needed to apply repairs. The special drone bonuses make it feasible to use fleet triggers and the cargo is large enough to bring enough mods to refit for various situations. Plus the DPS is good enough to not be easily ignored. I agree the Rattlesnake is an excellent fleet combat ship, I just think you are in for a nasty, nasty shock if you lose a fleet of them to a well laid trap and unexpected massive escalation.
Ask goons about faction hull supply limits and the time we let DBRB FC our shiny new TFI doctrine at the start of the Fountain war. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1629
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Posted - 2015.02.17 20:45:36 -
[13] - Quote
Loads of rattlesnakes died in the last months. Price kept falling. I actually bought a bunch of bpcs when the doctrine was announced, and had to sell them at a loss 2 months later
CFC and bl are bigger carebears than they admit
Build your empire !
Rent Space in Feythabolis and Omist
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Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
396
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Posted - 2015.02.17 22:07:42 -
[14] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Loads of rattlesnakes died in the last months. Price kept falling. I actually bought a bunch of bpcs when the doctrine was announced, and had to sell them at a loss 2 months later
CFC and bl are bigger carebears than they admit
grr goons |
adriaans
Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
16
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Posted - 2015.02.17 23:43:42 -
[15] - Quote
I assume that the reasons Cruiser and Frigate hulls are not dropping price in proportion is that the escalations don't drop these?
----True oldschool solo pvp'er----
My latest vid: Insanity IV
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Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
546
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Posted - 2015.02.18 00:11:15 -
[16] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote: CFC and bl are bigger carebears than they admit
No, our financial types have openly speculated that you could track the location of our home regions through time by plotting the prices depressions of the corresponding battleship hulls. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1629
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Posted - 2015.02.18 00:47:42 -
[17] - Quote
adriaans wrote:I assume that the reasons Cruiser and Frigate hulls are not dropping price in proportion is that the escalations don't drop these?
The escalations that are commonly run usually have battleship commanders, and those drop the big stuff. I'm not even sure if the low end anomalies actually escalate at all.
Build your empire !
Rent Space in Feythabolis and Omist
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Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
278
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Posted - 2015.02.18 18:27:01 -
[18] - Quote
It might be old stock.
Large Beam Laser Batteries buy 11 mill, sell at 16.6 in Jita. True Sansha Large Beam Laser Batteries sell in Jita for 6.5 buy is around 3 mill or something. You need a Large to make a True Sansha.
All faction modules are highly vulnerable to the mighty CCP nerf bat and useful will always overwrite rare. In the case of Faction Battleship, they were never PvE ships. Navy and T2 work better and PvP is cruiser down right now so a PvP battleship is going to be in far less demand. Much like the True Sansha Beam Laser Batteries, I bought a bunch because I knew they were under priced and the CCP nerf bat couldn't do much more damage to them.
If you think something with a green tag is horribly under priced and you can afford to have it sit in your assets for months or even years waiting for the the Nerf bat to swing the other way, buy them up. Machariel is a good ship. It's just useless right now. |
Anthar Thebess
879
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Posted - 2015.02.20 12:24:56 -
[19] - Quote
Reasons is very simple. All ship lines got boosted in case of DPS. Higher DPS -> Faster Ratting -> More Escalations -> More BPC
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1633
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Posted - 2015.02.20 20:06:33 -
[20] - Quote
We have more escalations because ccp fixed a lot of triggers for them.
Build your empire !
Rent Space in Feythabolis and Omist
Contact me for details :)
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