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Hydrian Alante
The Loot Company
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Posted - 2006.10.07 19:05:00 -
[31]
Am I¦m the only who thinks that the recons are very well balanced atm?
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Tasty Burger
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Posted - 2006.10.07 19:33:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Hydrian Alante Am I¦m the only who thinks that the recons are very well balanced atm?
Mostly, except the Rapier and Huginn are the only ones that can't solo very well because target painters suck, but its not a problem with the ships themselves.
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Ripline
FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.07 20:07:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Hydrian Alante Am I¦m the only who thinks that the recons are very well balanced atm?
Have to agree by and large. Even if I'm flying the more h4x recons of the bunch (Amarr and Gallente). The differences stem from the modules mainly. Nos are uber whether on a recon or something else. Damps when used with skill are the single most effective module against solo ships. Jammers are the current I-WIN. And finally there's the minmatar who received the scraps, target painters not being all that useful in general.
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Kunming
Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.07 20:12:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Tasty Burger
Originally by: Hydrian Alante Am I¦m the only who thinks that the recons are very well balanced atm?
Mostly, except the Rapier and Huginn are the only ones that can't solo very well because target painters suck, but its not a problem with the ships themselves.
Target painters suck in solo, but they dont in a gang or in special situations. Also the web bonus on the minnie recons is infact a reason for me to train minmatar cruiser lvl 5, there are simply too many vagabonds moving around our space..
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Snikkt
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.07 20:17:00 -
[35]
I think Faruda got killed by an Arazu, and came here to complain.
Whine moar.
-------------------
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Originally by: Aloysia Leyshon Shuttels are urban myth pure and simple. I've yet to see evidence of an actual shuttle.[/qu |
Kunming
Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.07 20:19:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Snikkt I think Faruda got killed by an Arazu, and came here to complain.
Whine moar.
We all know that already, but why are you coming here to point out the obvious? Trolling?
I really miss EVE and the forums 3 years ago, it was much more mature and there was a better dialogue between CCP and the players
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Valhalior
Caldari Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.07 21:03:00 -
[37]
This is how Force recons are balanced right now:
Arazu - no chance based EW, 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage, 3 turrets, drone bay.
Pilgrim - no chance based EW, 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level and drone bay ofc, 3 turrets.
Rapier - no chance based EW, 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret, drone bay, 3 turrets.
Falcon - chance based EW, no dps bonus, no drones, 2 turrets, 2 launchers.
If it is a long range recon give it at least some range bonus to turrets/missiles.
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Andreask14
Sensus Numinis Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.07 21:17:00 -
[38]
Falcon Ew is NOT chance based, scince you will be able to get a propability of OVER 100% to jam with decent skills and jammers.
Do the math yourself.
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DubanFP
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.07 21:26:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Andreask14 Falcon Ew is NOT chance based, scince you will be able to get a propability of OVER 100% to jam with decent skills and jammers.
Do the math yourself.
mm k, tell me exactly how to get +20 jammer strength to nail Battleships "which is where it really matters".
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Valhalior
Caldari Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.07 21:28:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Andreask14 Falcon Ew is NOT chance based, scince you will be able to get a propability of OVER 100% to jam with decent skills and jammers.
Do the math yourself.
Oh yes - propability over 100%. So according to you something can happen - 100%, something is sure not to happen 0%, something between (lets say 1-99%) and something can happen because of gods will - over 100%.
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TasmanianX
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.10.07 21:31:00 -
[41]
Edited by: TasmanianX on 07/10/2006 21:30:57
Originally by: Andreask14 Falcon Ew is NOT chance based, scince you will be able to get a propability of OVER 100% to jam with decent skills and jammers.
Do the math yourself.
Please take basic statistics, and get back to us.
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Andreask14
Sensus Numinis Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.07 21:39:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Andreask14 on 07/10/2006 21:46:20 Edited by: Andreask14 on 07/10/2006 21:39:19 The caldari recon ships will enable you to have your jammers jam their targets with every time you perform a cycle, for each jammer, on each target.
Even on the biggest targets you will still have a propabiilty of around 80%, which equals a win button tbfh.
I will not spell it out for you. Go fly the other recons, with their EW that works everytime, because the caldari recons are horribly underpowered.
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TasmanianX
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.10.07 21:48:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Andreask14 Edited by: Andreask14 on 07/10/2006 21:46:20 Edited by: Andreask14 on 07/10/2006 21:39:19 The caldari recon ships will enable you to have your jammers jam their targets with every time you perform a cycle, for each jammer, on each target.
Even on the biggest targets you will still have a propabiilty of around 80%, which equals a win button tbfh.
I will not spell it out for you. Go fly the other recons, with their EW that works everytime, because the caldari recons are horribly underpowered.
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ElCoCo
Gallente KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.07 21:48:00 -
[44]
You're joking right? Arazu is pants compared to falcon. Unless all you judge anything from is solo work where pilgrim is quite easily the best because it's firepower isn't gimped compared to the others.
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ElCoCo
Gallente KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.07 21:49:00 -
[45]
Did he realy say caldari recons are underpowered? |
Axitikus
Minmatar Raid and Recon The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2006.10.07 21:50:00 -
[46]
no, really, lets think about helping the OP out. He obviously wants the higher end ships that take more time to train to be less powerful than the lower ships (Reaper!), so lets come up with some ideas.
Kali patch Arazu
2 hislots: suggested fitting: 1 "Noob tube" rocket launcher, 1 "noob cannon" electron blaster
1 mid slot
1 low slot
pg:1 cpu:2 <img src="http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0610/cats.JPG"> |
Tasty Burger
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Posted - 2006.10.07 21:51:00 -
[47]
Originally by: ElCoCo Did he realy say caldari recons are underpowered?
I think he was being sarcastic, though he could have worded it better.
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.07 23:08:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Valhalior This is how Force recons are balanced right now:
Arazu - no chance based EW, 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage, 3 turrets, drone bay.
Pilgrim - no chance based EW, 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level and drone bay ofc, 3 turrets.
Rapier - no chance based EW, 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret, drone bay, 3 turrets.
Falcon - chance based EW, no dps bonus, no drones, 2 turrets, 2 launchers.
If it is a long range recon give it at least some range bonus to turrets/missiles.
That explains all pilgrims flying around with full rack of jammers, eh? --------------------- Looking for frentix? Mail me.
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Orvas Dren
Gallente The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.08 00:16:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Faruda Edited by: Faruda on 07/10/2006 14:31:18 Edited by: Faruda on 07/10/2006 14:30:03
Originally by: xlop 40km 1pt scramsOMG WOOOOOT dis is powered over no?
Learn a bit math before post.
Originally by: xlop an arazu can only hold down one ship! and only really damp 1 ship constantly!
Yes. One. But with 100% result.
Originally by: xlop in comparision the caldari one can EASILY jam 5+ BS constantly.
Are you so retarded? Make some calculation. 5+ BS. Scorp/Rook is happy when jammed 2 BS.
Originally by: xlop until your standard ship does not carry 2+stabs the galante recons are trash. you need at lest 3 points on most bs/fagas/cerbs/ect to keep them there, then u got 3 damps which will only really damp 1 BS enough!
Dude! Use your brain, not propaganda. 2 disruptors + 3 dampeners + web. Enough to keep almost anything(except mwding frigates/cruisers)
Quote: also interdictors do the job much much much better
I am tired from you. Interdictor CANNOT USE COVERT OPS CLOAK.
Ok, starting at the top.
1. Recon Ships lvl 5 + 20km 1pt disruptor = 40km 1pt scram, I saw nothing wrong with the math, recon 4 = 36km. Now in some cases, at 90mil a pop, people like me will fit 2 x True Sansha Warp Disruptors (28km) Recon 4 = 50km.
2. I may be able to lock down 1 ship with 100%, but I cannot kill most things by myself, at least anything battlecruiser sized or larger. And when have you ever met a solo ship, I realize I can kill ratters, but they rarely drop the good T2 loot. :)
3. I witnessed a Rook keep a fleet of 10+ BS at bay because he sat at long range and prevented any sort of real damage of coming out of them by cycling his jammers along them. Our fleet reported that they could not keep a lock for longer than 30seconds.
4. He is right about people and stabs, you must be thinking Low-Sec, but in 0.0 people run 3 or 4 stabs, and the rest can run thru either greater speed or the fact that I just can't kill them anyways. And btw, if you get inside Webber range with an Arazu your using it wrong. Keep the following numbers in mind.
3 damps on BS with SB II = 11km lock range (plenty to get a lock eventually and web the Arazu, Arazu sitting still and locked will pop as fast as a frigate. 3 damps on a BS with 1xSB II = 29km lock range (at worst, can do closer to 23km with skills.)
5. Your right, an Interdictor can't warp cloaked, but you ever try and catch a ship that does 4km/s? I think it takes an Arazu/Rapier combo to catch anything that fast.
You wanna know what I have had to fit to be useful?
Highs: CovOps Cloak II 3 x Dual 150mm II Mids: 1 x Sensor Booster II 2 x True Sansha Warp Disruptor (These 2 alone are worth the ship and cloak together - Thank god for ratting in Sansha space and knowing the trick to getting TS spawns.) 3 x Remote Sensor Damp II (I use T2 because they are cheaper, but these 3 alone can kill my cap eventually, add in the scram and guns and its out in 45seconds. Lows: 1600mm Rolled Tungsten F85 Peripheral Damage Control Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Type-D Cap Relay Drones: 2 x Warrior II 3 x Valkyrie II
Took a Vaga 25seconds to put me into structure, at which point my friends arrived and scared him off. Nerf the Vagabond that can run out of 50km scramble range before anyone can lock him... To be fair, he had a lock range of 6km with me on him, so that helped me survive some too.
Repairers are useless on this ship, it needs to be plated since it gets called primary due to it preventing warp out, and it has the damage of a wet noodle. I can only kill BC and BS sized craft if they were ratting and I just help the rats finish them off. Even then I have to try and stay at range and with a speed of 225m/s that is not easy.
So yeah, go ahead and nerf it, just make sure to nerf Vaga's, stabs, MWD and targetting ranges along with it.
EVE-Mail me for custom signature work. Price Negotiable |
Markttrulle
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Posted - 2006.10.08 00:56:00 -
[50]
solo this ? solo that ? yea, maybe.
but arazu + rapier DUO 4tw
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Elmicker
Gallente Unscoped Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.08 01:17:00 -
[51]
You forget the line in the recons' descriptions "The class counterparts to HACs". Recons are not meant to be solo ships. The most successful arazu pilots fly in tandem with a pure DPS boat, usually an Astarte. No sane pilot will take a ship as expensive and as damageless as the arazu out soloing. It should only ever be used to lock people down from a silly range until your support gets there, or to dampen down capital ships to annoy them. The arazu is best suited to small gangs, and is best complimented by a minmatar recon (web range bonus = <3) and another ship setup for pure dps and gankage. The minnie recon might not even be needed, webber drones might do the trick, because you're not there to kill them, you're there to pin them down while your mate kicks them innarocks.
That said, that's all theory. The first thing most inexperienced pilots will think when they see a lone ship uncloak is "this is going to be fun f1-f8", and then quickly find their lock time has shot up to somewhere in the region of 2 minutes and that they're warp scrambled from 30km, is quite honestly, crap themselves and run for the hills, only to find the arazu's mate warping in on top of him to unleash all kinds of hell. Brilliant ship, in my opinion, shouldn't be touched, as it can only be used effectively when used as part of a gang who knows what they're doing, which is the entire point of the recon.
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Audrea
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.10.08 06:23:00 -
[52]
All recons are perfectly balanced for gangs and solo (except minni for solo somewhat).
The only one who needs NERF is the OP!!!
If you cant counter good Arazu pilot who knows how to use it, doesnt mean ship needs nerf! ------------------ Save Deimos! |
Grez
Minmatar The Raven Warriors
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Posted - 2006.10.08 08:46:00 -
[53]
I had an Arazu locking me down in my Prophecy. 5 small drones later, he was a small can... Is this another uber bonus? ---
Cache Clearer
Still waiting for a Wrangler-edit! |
Karas Rabus
Karjala Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.08 10:56:00 -
[54]
I¦m not complaining about huginn or rapier.
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Taurgil
Konstrukteure der Zukunft Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.08 11:42:00 -
[55]
Leave the Arazu as is.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.10.08 11:46:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Hydrian Alante Am I¦m the only who thinks that the recons are very well balanced atm?
The recons are balanced, their modules are not. This will happen when they will fit their racial EW instead of ECM.
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Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.08 13:21:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Markttrulle solo this ? solo that ? yea, maybe.
but arazu + rapier DUO 4tw
add interdictor = win. -------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Mikal Drey
Angels and Demons
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Posted - 2006.10.08 13:29:00 -
[58]
hey hey
played 1v1 with a corp mate whnhe got his arazu. Vs my hound he lost.
FoF cruise countered him pretty effectivly. and in a stealth bomer you can outrange him too.
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Ghitza
Backup Squad
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Posted - 2006.10.09 10:19:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Faruda Arazu abilities are too powerful.
Scrambler bonus prevents enemy from warping out Dampener bonus prevents enemy from attack. Covert ops bonus allows you to attack any target ay time. And last - juicy damage bonus. P.S. Drone bay 40m3!!! 4 t2 med drones...
Uber solo ship. Absolutely uber.
OMFG!!!! GO PLAY WOW! Please, dont post anymore.
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Chewan Mesa
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.09 11:33:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 09/10/2006 11:36:19 The Falcon is perfectly fine...its a gang-support recon, not a solo-ship, and Imho not every race needs 1 awesome solo-recon, just takes away from the diversity of ships people train for.
Concerning the arazu, its a nice ship, but not overpowered really.
Oh and "lol" to that...
Originally by: Andreask14 Edited by: Andreask14 on 07/10/2006 21:46:20 Edited by: Andreask14 on 07/10/2006 21:39:19 The caldari recon ships will enable you to have your jammers jam their targets with every time you perform a cycle, for each jammer, on each target.
Even on the biggest targets you will still have a propabiilty of around 80%, which equals a win button tbfh.
I will not spell it out for you. Go fly the other recons, with their EW that works everytime, because the caldari recons are horribly underpowered.
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