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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 09:51:00 -
[1]
Ok I am really frustrated, in fact yesterday i even cancelled my account, but reactivated this morning again in hope Kali can change a bit of it. Here is the facts that led me to do it and I think that unfortunately they show how CCP does not pay attention on how to make game pleasurable to players of all experience levels.
First of all my toon is a 800k SP one rather new but capable of flying cruisers and BC enough to have no fun at safe space with teh miserable fighter rats.
I got the last 6 and 1/2 days stuck in same system (0.4) because of gate campers that were holding all exist of system with 4 Battleships/HACS on each gate. They were there every day on the time frame I have to play after work. So i got almost a full week of just sitting and doing NOTHING (no agent to do missions and only 4 belts on system).
My whole corps is too weak to help and no one in system as interested on helping.
Yesterday was holiday hwere so I was able to play in a different time frame. Ok so I attemped to make a run to move my stuff out of that system. I got my cruiser and took of station... before my screen gets normal again (out of the balc transition) I am already webed and jammed by a Vagabond and die... in few instants after that. Luckly being so close I can dock with pod.
I get my other cruiser.. and wait about half on hour until i see that the vagabond docked... so i take off and head to gate (trying to go into safe empire). When i am alsmot jumping the vagabond appears again.. i jump.. and run afst to next gate. But... since is a long jump i have to make that traditional capacitor stop at middle. And when i arrive at next gate.. the vagabond is already there waiting... ok.. dead again... I am already becomming reaaaaly ****ed. And ofcourse... sentries help nothing.. why to put sentires if they cant kill anything but noobs?
Later I get my corps help. 4 cruisers and 2 frigates to help get the surviving stuff form 0.4 into empire so i can rebuild some money etc.. after a very lame week of gaming. We start outr journey.. the vaga tries to attack again.. but we were able to drive him off.. it seemed. We continue.. on next jump.... still in a 0.4 system. The vagabond comes again.. but with a fellow pirate in.. a Machariel!! WTF!!! What in hell is a machariel pilot doing killing noobs in 0.4 space? No need to say we are completely vaporized. BUT NOW is the lame part that machariel guy destroy our cans!! he dont even loot.. it kills aour pods and cans just for the pleasure of making our lifes miserable.
My account that started with 38 mil isk that week is with less than a 1 and 1/2 million. No fun on having to start all over again.
So what is the fun of being able to play with cruisers and BC if you cant use anything bigger than frigate until you are 6 months old? What is the fun of as sson as you leave ZERO danger space (concord space) you get into an area where you are imediately faced with overpowered players? You dont have a mid term. There is only space to the ones that like no dange (0.5+) and ones that are able to deal with machariels pirating! There is no sense on 0.4 to 0.1,.. its all the same thing!!
What is teh help on those sentries if they cant kill anything an experienced player use? 0.4 sentries should be able to kill any ship.. and maybe on 0.1 thery should be weak as they are... And HACS, battleships and all ubers ships should Not be allowed above 0.2 space...
Now i am stuck in an almost startting game all over again.. very frustrated. Because i have to keep in NO FUN SPACE (0.5>) because tehre is no graduation form 0.4 to 0.0.. there is just a slaughter room where I acnt go to have fun unless I wait 4 more months. :(
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 10:07:00 -
[2]
The problem is not that. The main problem is that I was kept locked in a system unabel to run for 1 week. Every time I tried I got killed.
And Players with ridiculowsly powerfull stuff go just grief weak players instaed of going do something interesting. What is the fun of pursuing noobs in 0.4 in a machariel?
And yes there ISeasy mode on eve!! That machariel was playing on easy mode. That is the problem the easy mode is only for players that are in game for 3 years! And also there is the ultra easy mode on empire.
I don't want an easy mode. I want an AVERAGE mode. Ant reasonable game designer is able to do so. I worked (DEVELOPER) in other MMOs and on that aspect EVE is one of the worst!!!
Any reasonable game design tries to keep all the players with chance to have fun.
And I don want to play in an uber corps. I ddid that in past with other account and left game becasue tehre was no fun to be on a gagn where you are almost just an spectator... I am in a corps of all sub 2 million SP so we can have fun together on same level.
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 10:15:00 -
[3]
I think you all dont get the poitn. That is not a simple whine. Its a critiscism of how EVE dois not contemplate a reasonable time frame on the life of a character. When you are over 2 weeks old. no lvl 1 mission will give you any fun. And you are still too far form lvl 2 missions ( on the rythim I was going it would take 3 months to reach level 2 missions). So no chalange at one point... so you try to find something more fun to do. But there is no.. " a bit more difficult" place to have fun. There is nothing fun in 0.5 and above.. nothing.. until i can unloack level 2 agents.. and I dont want to pay just do do NOT FUN things!!
EVE must insert contents for this level of paying. Cause that is one of reaosn so many accounts are short lived.
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 10:28:00 -
[4]
But if i dont find frigate flying fun? I am condeemed to several months of no fun gaming? If there were Cruiser class targets in 0.5 and above I would stay there. If at least I could reach missions where i could face cruiser.. .. but that would take a loong time
And I am not bothered when I am jumped by a rupture or a BS on ar interceptor. But a machariel just to destroy the cans is just #&!@#*!@!(@!!!
And my 800k SP character is all on combat skills, cruiser V 4 gunnery 5 medium guns 4 maxed armor skills. So it should be possible to fly a cruiser reasonably.
And what is teh difference on0.4 and 0.1? Why not make the 0.4 sentries much more powerfull?
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 10:38:00 -
[5]
I dont make instas becasue i think they are an exploitation of the game mechanisc. They cause lag and I don't like being part of one of the main problems of eve.
Just amake sentries more powerfull specially on 0.3 and 0.4 and much of the problems would be gone.
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 10:56:00 -
[6]
I am not trying to run into a "this game sucks" thread. I work on game development and i am just trying to give waht I think to be a good advice to CCp. They certainly loose a lot of players on the age of 1 2 months because they are stuck on between a no fun world and a no chance world.
And i noticed most advices are to use deplorable game exploit tatics like alts and instas. Game was not made to be played that way. It should not be needed to game teh game to play it. That is pure incompetence on game design.
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 11:16:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Polinus on 16/11/2006 11:20:39 Game mechanicst exploitation is not something should be used as an argument to support hw well done a game is. CCP must alow things to be done in single account and not using exploits like instas.
And i still think CCP should add some learning ground for players that dont want to be carebears but want to learn how tu use a non frigate ship without loosing 10 of them in a single day.There is another thread about making concord have achance of not apearing on 0.5.. tha would do it.
I am not good at remembering names but teh camp was in system near bei, when I got killed I was trying to get to bei from dudedra (in middle there is a 0.4 system). The machariel was not in the camp it appeared in a completely different time of day (i was able to play that time because was holiday yesterday). In fact is only the second tiem I've ever seen one.
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 11:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Presidente Gallente
Originally by: Polinus Edited by: Polinus on 16/11/2006 11:20:39 Game mechanicst exploitation is not something should be used as an argument to support hw well done a game is. CCP must alow things to be done in single account and not using exploits like instas.
And i still think CCP should add some learning ground for players that dont want to be carebears but want to learn how tu use a non frigate ship without loosing 10 of them in a single day.There is another thread about making concord have achance of not apearing on 0.5.. tha would do it.
I am not good at remembering names but teh camp was in system near bei, when I got killed I was trying to get to bei from dudedra (in middle there is a 0.4 system). The machariel was not in the camp it appeared in a completely different time of day (i was able to play that time because was holiday yesterday). In fact is only the second tiem I've ever seen one.
You don't understand the game, right?! Instas is a tactics feature which helps you to survive. You are looking for Arcade Shooter Action and even that is totally frustrating when you have to fight against keyboard and mouse masters.
EVE needs patience, experience, skilling, skilling, skilling and team work if you want to be successful in PvP except you are an old strong clone hunting noobs like you all the time.
But here's a nice example that even a new alt of a clone with +just˝ one year experience starts a successful pirate career by using the mechanics. Total fun and interesting to read. Unfortunately in German only.
IMO you are too impatient for a complex game like EVE.
Fly strong skilled and run missions first!
Presidente Gallente
lol I develop games that make eve look not much more complex than mine sweeper. I am not impatient, but after 1 month i want to start having some fun!!
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 12:51:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Polinus on 16/11/2006 12:56:14
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Polinus
Originally by: Wotar
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Polinus lol I develop games that make eve look not much more complex than mine sweeper. I am not impatient, but after 1 month i want to start having some fun!!
These games sound interesting, name some?
I think they may be imaginary games...
www.thunder-works.com
other is a simulator for the navy so cant give screenshots.
What a coincidence I work on flight sims too http://www.pacific-fighters.com/en/home.php?skin=S2.
you are allowed to not beleive on whatever you want. But that is where my income comes from and you must be vearyu jeallous to make such a response.So as some here say learn to play.. i say.. learn to live your life..
btw wanna test? Send me an e-mail to [email protected] so i can reply...
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 13:23:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Polinus on 16/11/2006 13:30:03
Originally by: DarkElf This post made me chuckle i have to say. why did u not fit a travel setup on ur cruiser if u didn't want to fight. if u had an mwd,nanos and stabs (ok i hate the things but for travel config they are acceptable) and he wouldn't have had a chance. also if u just put a 1600 plate, med rep and hardeners on ur cruiser it would probably not have been able to kill u in time before sentries hurt the vaga enough to warp off.
and why shouldn't a machariel pilot be in a 0.4 massacring everything that moves? for many that is great fun and what the game is all about.
DE
how long would take for the sentries to scare a vaagbond away? Just so that I can have a clue of how much harder I need to be. The macchariel seemed to simply ingnore the sentries.
btw I forhgot to say.. i had hard time trying to evade system casue i tried to fit a stabber with max speed stuff to carry my valuable loot out. And runned to gat.. was able to click jump before got locked.. but i get.. you at 7th# in queue for jump #*!@(#(!@*#
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 14:13:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zhelavar
Originally by: Polinus I think you all dont get the poitn. That is not a simple whine. Its a critiscism of how EVE dois not contemplate a reasonable time frame on the life of a character. When you are over 2 weeks old. no lvl 1 mission will give you any fun. And you are still too far form lvl 2 missions ( on the rythim I was going it would take 3 months to reach level 2 missions). So no chalange at one point... so you try to find something more fun to do. But there is no.. " a bit more difficult" place to have fun. There is nothing fun in 0.5 and above.. nothing.. until i can unloack level 2 agents.. and I dont want to pay just do do NOT FUN things!!
I think your problem is that you are looking for a strictly PvE game in a PvP-focused game. Player vs player actions - the market, politics, corporations, combat - are what the game is based around. Engaging in those gives you plenty to do while ratting.
You said you are a MMOG developer, so you understand that in designing a game, especially a niche one, you pick an area and concentrate on it. That means that PvE options in EVE Online are not going to be as abundant as the PvP options are.
Originally by: Polinus EVE must insert contents for this level of paying.
If the focus was a PvE game, then I would agree that the PvE would need to be ramped up. Have you tried manufacturing? Selling on the market? What are your corp's goals? Maybe get involved in corp activities or move to another corp that offers more. Have you checked the recruitment channesl ingame or the forums here?
Check with your corp on their goals. If they don't match what you want from the game, seek out another corp. Keep in mind, though, that PvE is going to seem a bit sparse, because the majority of the game is about player vs player interaction, conflict, and competition.
Originally by: Polinus Cause that is one of reaosn so many accounts are short lived.
A lot of people bring that up and I will ask you the same question I ask them: Do you have a link to stats indicating that churn in EVE is significantly lower than that of WOW or other MMOGs?
but this can be acomplished while targeting PVP. The example I gave was. Make 0.5 (or 0.4 whatever) a zone where there is a 10% chance Concord will appear. So we will have piracy there. But no one will use a machariel or Vagabond to do that since they risk too much. There would be an area where people could enjoy "lower level pvp". PIrates tehre would use firgates and cruisers at most.
I joined eve at first time with the prospect of PvP but unfortunately you have two options wait half an year.. or be just a tacker and cannon fooder for larger corps. Not fun.
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 15:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Detavi Kade
Originally by: Polinus The problem is not that. The main problem is that I was kept locked in a system unabel to run for 1 week. Every time I tried I got killed.
You don't start the game in an 0.4 system. You start off in a 1.0 system. No one MADE you go to 0.4. You cannot expect the game to bail you out of tough situations that you put yourself into.
My best advice, after you got yourself stuck in an 0.4 system, would be to strip all the modules from your ships, put max insurance on them, and make a run for it. You lose money, yes, but at least you gain alot back that you can rebuild with.
Painful lesson. But if loss doesn't occur, people never learn. I'm sorry to hear about your loss, I really am. But please don't go asking for the devs to change a game just because you chose to make some risky moves that didn't pan out.
I am just asking to give players something more, not remove anything. Think on someway to have areas with some dangers where we can learn to face pirates or be pirates etc.. fight bigger than rogue drones targets.. wihout being gate camped by uber ships neither competely vaporized every single time juste because i don't play yest for 6 or more months.
I find empire to be uterly boring. Low sec would be perfect for me (and for several people I know) if the threat we would face were Tech 1 ships and so. its nothing so much more complicated to ask to think on an average ground is it?
Our corps would love to loose all theirs ships in a fight that we had a hope of winning.. but these fights dont exist on low sec now. And on high sec we find no fun.
Just stating that there is a class of players that are not being contempalted by the game design. The "wanna not be carebears..but still don't strong enough"
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 16:42:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal
Originally by: Polinus And i noticed most advices are to use deplorable game exploit tatics like alts and instas. Game was not made to be played that way. It should not be needed to game teh game to play it. That is pure incompetence on game design.
If the game allows it and the DEVs have said it is not an exploit then it is fair to use. Instas are fair to use. Alts are fair to use.
I have an alt that lives in a 0.3 system and has lost a Rupture, a Badger, and been podded in the past three days. It aint that bad. You keep your eyes open and have safe spots and insta jumps from those SSs to the gates and you will have a decent chance. You ignore the advice that has been given to you and you will have a very unfun time in this game.
If you want to keep playing the way you are then you will get screwed. Have fun in game.
the poitn is from using instas exploit to using logoff is a very short distance.. and if I am forced to use one i WILL use the other. That is why I won't use instas.
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Thor Xian One last thing from me Polinus, I respect you for not wanting to join the weak and lazy 'elite' by not using instas. I have survived low sec and 0.0 for years without them, you can too. It just takes more patience and brain power.
Just as a note, asking CCP to proactively help you just because you are new, simply won't work. Eve stands above other mmos because that is exactly what CCP won't do. In Eve you stand or fall on your own merits.
its not just help me.. its more about help a new player transition to be more smooth. Very few people have time to spend in game. And if they gonna pay 3 months of game subscription to get pwoned everytime or stay at no fun zone. Lots of them will get bored. I worked ina an MMO that died form that same reason. Evew was lucky to grow fast enough to hold its feet and not have same doom.
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:30:00 -
[15]
Yeahh thet would be a perfect solution , as long as of course some nicer rats are included in 0.5 and 0.6. (up to those 70k isk bounty cruisers)
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Valan
Originally by: Polinus
its not just help me.. its more about help a new player transition to be more smooth. Very few people have time to spend in game. And if they gonna pay 3 months of game subscription to get pwoned everytime or stay at no fun zone. Lots of them will get bored. I worked ina an MMO that died form that same reason. Evew was lucky to grow fast enough to hold its feet and not have same doom.
I have to disagree with you there. EVE has been around for more than three years and its easier now than its ever been. Population is still growing and 'the sky will fall unless you help the weak' threads have been a feature of the forums since they grace the internet.
no eve will not fail anymore. Because it is already big. But this thing prevents it from growing even more, and eve was lucky it didnt killed it at its beggining.
EVE wont die now from this issue. But I know 7 guys that worked with me and startedt playing eve (when i worked on this space MMO www.taikodom.com.br) that quited beacuse exaclty of that steep transition. So we could have a larger influx of players that would keep playing longer than 3 months.
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:50:00 -
[17]
That is also an option. But it would affect all pirates. I thinbk what we need is soemthingto create a ground where there will be piracy, but mostly low level piracy (like tech 1 cruisers and BC).
Think on something like that. You can walk with a gun in acity.. but can 't use it in public or police gonna get on you (say start shooting at a wall). But outside of city you can carry a gun and use it and no one will pop instantly to stop you even if you kill someone. If I go to countyside carrying a gun i know i am as well armed as any threat I can find.
But no one will get into country side wiht a M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank. If someone does even on remote places, it will be detected and acted upon. SO i don't need to fear being attacked by a Main Battle Tank when I go outside city and far from police.
That is the mid ground I am thinking...
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Snarls McGee
Originally by: Polinus
the poitn is from using instas exploit to using logoff is a very short distance.. and if I am forced to use one i WILL use the other. That is why I won't use instas.
You make some grandiose claims. I only hope that your MMORPG is filled with players like you.
There have been plenty of non-volitile advice offered and you have scorned each one. YOU don't want to take the time to adapt or learn and instead essentially want the game 'dumbed down' for the lazy.
You are simply too impatient for a game like EVE. Just because you CAN fly a BC doesn't mean you SHOULD. 800k in training and I bet you have no AB/MWD skills. Tactical Shield Manipulation skills? Fuel Conservation? Engineering? Even a 'high and mighty' faction BS is useless without those skills.
If this was a game like DAOC you're basically complaining that you *VOLUNTARILY* took a level 5 player into battle against level 50s in Emain and are asking the devs to put in more NPC Guards to help you.
I have a hard time believing you are the dev of anything if you are so unwilling or unable to adapt to the given game mechanics. You failed to use the map to research the system(s) for pod kills, ship kills, etc. You failed to outfit your ships properly--even after being destroyed once. You failed to have the necessary training that would have helped your survivability. You even decided to go into lowsec space to begin with.. But, in true 'it isn't my fault' mentality, you claim it is a DEV problem.. /boggle
Please tell us what almight MMORPG you do dev work for (it *does* make EVE look like minesweeper, right?) so I know to avoid it.
I worked at an MMO and that is not teh game that makes eve complexity look low. The complex games I work on are flight sims for PC and NAvy. The MMO I worked on (i placed a link before but was deleted by moderation) failed, one of reasons why it tried to copy EVE harsh steep change from secure to hell loose. It was not lucky as EVE and most new players stope playing soon.
Again I am not complaining for myself sicne any change on taht would take a time that I would have several million SP before it comes by. I am just giving my advice to CCP on how hard they are being with new players.
And its exactly because i lost a job in a failed MMO that i have the precise notion that make players adapt to the game is a bad move.
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:58:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Scoundrelus All I read is the title and I *HAVE* to comment. Is there a nice fluffy side to PvP? When is blowing the shyte out of someone a nice thing to do?
so please dont post, at least until you read why I wrote that and what I try to acomplish. Until you do that you are not very usefull or desireful here.
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