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Phoenix Jones
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Posted - 2006.12.12 15:58:00 -
[1]
I do not know why people are cheering so much. Unless this lottery has an unlimited timeframe, then whatever items have been seeded will merely be bought off of the person who gets it.
Alliances are really the only groups who can afford to purchase a T2 BPO. In addition, alliances have people with Thousands upon Thousands of research points in hopes to get BPO's (so they have a greater chance now).
Those that they don't get, they'll merely purchase off the person for some odd hundreds of billions, making that person rich, but making everybody else suffer.
I would not cheer yet about the BPO reseeding, because if its a finite limit, then don't expect any significant price changes, while the 40 or so odd people who get the new BPO's sell them to the mega Corps for Isk.
---------------The Low Sec Issue------------- Gatecamps that kill all who pass with no remorse and in many cases, no possible way of retaliation, is not PVP. |
KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:00:00 -
[2]
Don't worry, we have invention!!!
KIA EVE Home
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Mi Lai
Sanguine Legion
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:00:00 -
[3]
Originally by: KIAEddZ Don't worry, we have invention!!!
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D'onryu Shoqui
Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:02:00 -
[4]
alliances wont buy them the people who have t2 bpo's already with almost unlimited bank balances will. the rich get richer ------------------------- I am a nobody of IMP my views are my own. |
BurnHard
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:10:00 -
[5]
Honestly, trust me on this, I've been a T2 producer. A lot of T2 stuff doesn't have huge profits. However, most of it does have a profit, unlike a lot of T1 stuff that sells at cost or below because there are so many modules dropping from NPC's (apart from the BPO's being in unlimited supply).
Now, some items can make huge profits due to BPO rarity. But those are the exception, taken as a proportion of the total number of BPO's. A lot of people will sell their BPO's but only because the ROI putting the cash into something else will be greater in the medium term than holding the print and manufacturing yourself. For example, if a BPO worth 2 billion was making you a profit of 10m per week, it might not be worth holding, unless you intend to hold it for a couple of years!
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Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:10:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 12/12/2006 16:11:59
Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui alliances wont buy them the people who have t2 bpo's already with almost unlimited bank balances will. the rich get richer
Those people being the alliance he means :p
But no, it's not just alliances that are going to buy them, it's gtc sellers and other rich folk too now, like some of the people that've been in nobcorps doing trade runs and lvl 4's for the last three years.
In general, yes, most of the enw bpo's will end up with people with alot of isk.
That's a problem why ? Does it matter wether the guy gouging you was rich beforehand or not ?
However, alliances do have an extra reason to buy these bpo's, that other people do not have. This means that theoretically alliances should be outbidding what is the economically viable price on these items, jst to ensure that they have a secure source for critical t2 products.
Old blog |
Pakalolo
Tha Shiznit
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:13:00 -
[7]
don't ever underestimate the other guy's greed.
there is no way to know who gets what in the lottery, unless you win and tell somebody.
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D'onryu Shoqui
Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:16:00 -
[8]
Quote: That's a problem why ? Does it matter wether the guy gouging you was rich beforehand or not ?
would be nice if wealth was spread around a bit more guess its to late now , maybe ccp have learned there lesson.
dont think i have ever known any other mmo where more than likely 5% of the population probably has more than 25% of the isk ingame ------------------------- I am a nobody of IMP my views are my own. |
DANGEROUS
PHANT0MS
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:18:00 -
[9]
try 5 % have 95% of the isk infact is closer to the mark tbh
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Splagada
Minmatar Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:21:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Splagada on 12/12/2006 16:21:43 well for most itll be the case, as when the people stop dancing from pulling a T2 BPO they will realize you almost need a dedicated corp to produce those
and the prices at first will be worth it
example : the cerb bpo that went a few months ago for about 50 billions takes about 1 year with a dedicated corp to get even, even by selling CERBS !
for that i understand the guy sold, and imo the buyer took a huge risk
yes he prints isk; but starts with a 50b hole in wallet ------
relaxed corp looking for members |
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Fugly McTastic
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:24:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Fugly McTastic on 12/12/2006 16:27:44
Originally by: DANGEROUS try 5 % have 95% of the isk infact is closer to the mark tbh
Which pretty much mimics real life Way to go people, we buggered the planet and the economy, now were doing it with Computer games...
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I am NOT an exclamation point, I am a free man...
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Larshus Magrus
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:26:00 -
[12]
Its not all doom and gloom. I've been researching forever with 5 top agents and have never won anything. If I happen to win something good I'm not selling it. I enjoy producing t1 items and It'd be nice to add a nice t2 bpo to my production queue.
I'm sure there are others like me. :) I play this game for enjoyment, not to see how many ISK I ultimately have... although it is one of the benchmarks of the game.
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Malena
Perpetual Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Splagada Edited by: Splagada on 12/12/2006 16:21:43 well for most itll be the case, as when the people stop dancing from pulling a T2 BPO they will realize you almost need a dedicated corp to produce those
and the prices at first will be worth it
example : the cerb bpo that went a few months ago for about 50 billions takes about 1 year with a dedicated corp to get even, even by selling CERBS !
for that i understand the guy sold, and imo the buyer took a huge risk
yes he prints isk; but starts with a 50b hole in wallet
Tis true if they plan on selling for profit, but if they plan on making them for in-alliance use, and perhaps only selling the extras, then they can provide a fantastic service to their members at a decent price. It may not always be about profit, but about making sure your members are kitted as best they can be for an not-exorbitant price tag.
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D'onryu Shoqui
Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:27:00 -
[14]
Edited by: D''onryu Shoqui on 12/12/2006 16:27:29 in real life i think its 10% have 80% of the wealth.
there was some news article about it the other week.
atleast in real life its hard to have a monopoly ------------------------- I am a nobody of IMP my views are my own. |
Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:29:00 -
[15]
About alliances buying off...
If I get one T2 BPO I won't sell it for the world, no matter what. |
storm2k5
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: BurnHard
Honestly, trust me on this, I've been a T2 producer. A lot of T2 stuff doesn't have huge profits. However, most of it does have a profit, unlike a lot of T1 stuff that sells at cost or below because there are so many modules dropping from NPC's (apart from the BPO's being in unlimited supply).
Now, some items can make huge profits due to BPO rarity. But those are the exception, taken as a proportion of the total number of BPO's. A lot of people will sell their BPO's but only because the ROI putting the cash into something else will be greater in the medium term than holding the print and manufacturing yourself. For example, if a BPO worth 2 billion was making you a profit of 10m per week, it might not be worth holding, unless you intend to hold it for a couple of years!
Thank you for this post. I manufacture a couple of T2 ammo prints for my corp. It needs alot of time to get all the components and it needs ALOT of time to manufacture it. Most people doesn't seem to realize that unlike T1 it takes ages to make the product.
For example: -50'000 units of a T2 cruise missile will take about 2 weeks to manufacture. -It costs about 120 ISK to make one unit. (standard ore and component prices)
Let's say I sell them for 400 ISK each (I hear people scream "greed!") Assumed I can sell them instantly I make 280 ISK * 50'000 profit each 2 weeks. Thats 14 mil ISK EVERY 2 WEEKS! Which calculates to only 1 lousy mil per day. Which can be done in 2 minutes with belt ratting in 0.0.
Assuming I got that T2 cruise BPO for only 500mil (which would be _very_ cheap) I have to manufacture it for nearly 1.5 years.
T2 isn't a very fast way to get very rich, if you don't have one of those rarity BPO's like Hammerhead II.
/storm
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:35:00 -
[17]
Also in real life you can do something against rich people, in Eve you can't, because you don't know who they are, and even if you did, not much you can do to harm the wallet of an alt in an NPC corp.
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: KIAEddZ Don't worry, we have invention!!!
BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
*falls of chair, laughing* "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö"
"A world without pain" |
Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:44:00 -
[19]
if i say got a Cerberus BPO and due to lack of resources couldnt fully use it im sure i could milk someone like BoB or ASCN for close to a trillion isk.
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Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:45:00 -
[20]
Hopefully they release the limit of data core you can get from R&D agents. New NPC Region |
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:45:00 -
[21]
Many of the extremely rich are in fact solo players (or belong to small corps). I think thats good, but the complex-farming titan-fielding blobs seem to disagree.
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Mona Lou
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:45:00 -
[22]
Heh, I bet if I founded Communist Party of Eve Online, I would get a lot of members.
Rich are evil, power to workers, wealth for everyone!
Seriously ppl, Eve is like RL. If you want to have something, you either have to be VERY lucky or you have to work hard. Want T2 BPOs? Then work, make ISK and buy your BPO. Everyone can do that, not only aliances.
Flying around, complaining and praying for gift from Gods/CCP is not gonna help.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:45:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Noriath Also in real life you can do something against rich people, in Eve you can't, because you don't know who they are, and even if you did, not much you can do to harm the wallet of an alt in an NPC corp.
Buy item, pod seller repeatedly.
Yeah I know, you'll probably end up with podding the price driving resellers repeatedly, but that's okay in my book. --*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Makree
Ubar Asteroid Hugging Collective
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:47:00 -
[24]
If I get a T2 bpo I will use it to produce t2 goods and sell them at a fair markup.
So CCP ensure I get a nice BPO, cause the future of the game depends on it.
ok, thx.
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Pick Me
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Phoenix Jones I do not know why people are cheering so much. Unless this lottery has an unlimited timeframe, then whatever items have been seeded will merely be bought off of the person who gets it.
Alliances are really the only groups who can afford to purchase a T2 BPO.
What is forcing someone getting the bpo to sell it ?
He get it, he use it. Whatever he is in an alliance or not. You want to restrict trade so that nobody getting a bpo can sell it to an alliance? That would be bad for the freedom of individual player (thoses not in alliance for that reason btw). |
Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:52:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 12/12/2006 16:54:59
Originally by: Phoenix Jones Alliances are really the only groups who can afford to purchase a T2 BPO.
I can purchase a couple, good ones, that is (good like magstab II or Invul II, not Cap II or Hulk), and yes, this is my "main".
Originally by: Tachy
Buy item, pod seller repeatedly.
Yeah I know, you'll probably end up with podding the price driving resellers repeatedly, but that's okay in my book.
You mean you end up getting podded repeatedly by price-driving resellers in fully rigged officer-fitted carriers / faction battleships?
Oh, wtb estamel cruises, 1b each.
Omnia vincit pecunia.
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Splagada
Minmatar Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Malena
Originally by: Splagada Edited by: Splagada on 12/12/2006 16:21:43 well for most itll be the case, as when the people stop dancing from pulling a T2 BPO they will realize you almost need a dedicated corp to produce those
and the prices at first will be worth it
example : the cerb bpo that went a few months ago for about 50 billions takes about 1 year with a dedicated corp to get even, even by selling CERBS !
for that i understand the guy sold, and imo the buyer took a huge risk
yes he prints isk; but starts with a 50b hole in wallet
Tis true if they plan on selling for profit, but if they plan on making them for in-alliance use, and perhaps only selling the extras, then they can provide a fantastic service to their members at a decent price. It may not always be about profit, but about making sure your members are kitted as best they can be for an not-exorbitant price tag.
i totally agree with that and i'm just jealous of them, but i dont feel they kill the game with that. it's an awesomelific service ------
relaxed corp looking for members |
Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:55:00 -
[28]
Why are you complaining about the resale of the BPOs? Either way winning a BPO = large amount of ISK, it's just that by selling it you you realise the value immediately instead of having to wait (as was explained above about the long production times)
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wystler
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:56:00 -
[29]
Come on vagabond bpo, pappa needs a new pair of everything
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Khyle
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.12 17:01:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Khyle on 12/12/2006 17:02:23
Originally by: storm2k5
Originally by: BurnHard
Honestly, trust me on this, I've been a T2 producer. A lot of T2 stuff doesn't have huge profits. However, most of it does have a profit, unlike a lot of T1 stuff that sells at cost or below because there are so many modules dropping from NPC's (apart from the BPO's being in unlimited supply).
Now, some items can make huge profits due to BPO rarity. But those are the exception, taken as a proportion of the total number of BPO's. A lot of people will sell their BPO's but only because the ROI putting the cash into something else will be greater in the medium term than holding the print and manufacturing yourself. For example, if a BPO worth 2 billion was making you a profit of 10m per week, it might not be worth holding, unless you intend to hold it for a couple of years!
Thank you for this post. I manufacture a couple of T2 ammo prints for my corp. It needs alot of time to get all the components and it needs ALOT of time to manufacture it. Most people doesn't seem to realize that unlike T1 it takes ages to make the product.
For example: -50'000 units of a T2 cruise missile will take about 2 weeks to manufacture. -It costs about 120 ISK to make one unit. (standard ore and component prices)
Let's say I sell them for 400 ISK each (I hear people scream "greed!") Assumed I can sell them instantly I make 280 ISK * 50'000 profit each 2 weeks. Thats 14 mil ISK EVERY 2 WEEKS! Which calculates to only 1 lousy mil per day. Which can be done in 2 minutes with belt ratting in 0.0.
Assuming I got that T2 cruise BPO for only 500mil (which would be _very_ cheap) I have to manufacture it for nearly 1.5 years.
T2 isn't a very fast way to get very rich, if you don't have one of those rarity BPO's like Hammerhead II.
/storm
As another T2 Producer i can only second that. I won 5 T2 BPOs in total, of which i sold 2 and produce stuff with the other 3. These 3 provide me a profit of 80-120 Million isk a month each. I could easily sell(got lots of offers) each for 3 Billion isk or more. Yep, that does mean to break even on the price to buy them you need about 30 months, or 2,5 years. People still do this of course, its just turning fixed assets into a steady income, like buying shares. But you can not get rich quickly, it will normally cost you more to buy a T2 BPO than you will probably ever earn with it. And thats true for 99% of the BPOs.
The opportunity cost of buying them(meaning the isk you would save by not buying) is usually much larger than the expected profit over 1-2 years.
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subvert
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Posted - 2006.12.12 17:26:00 -
[31]
t2 lottery = broken system
most powerful items in the game, give the holder unlimited ISK and power, and they are done under this poorly designed lottery
damage is already done, nuff said
way to play EVE = sell GTCs for 200 billion ISK, setup 20 accounts for T2 lottery, buy T2 BPOs if you didnt get them, buy more t2 BPOs b/c you now have unlimited wallet. anything else is metagame. broken but damage is already done.
a random number decides the balance of power and economy, no longer players. and now those who bought out the random number decide it. 0% player interaction involved, no eve players helped shaped the universe in that way. the t2 lotto goes against everything EVE stands and single handedly ruins the idea of player control
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Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:23:00 -
[32]
very silly to sell a good t2 bpo
unlimited constant income > limited (although large) sum of isk
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Khyle
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:26:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Khyle on 12/12/2006 18:27:50 Having read some posts again(no, not yours ;) ), the problem is failing to grasp the mechanics of monopolies(i will not adress the lotteries are unfair issues, thats a different topic). So:
MONOPOLIES FOR DUMMIES
Lets assume i own a vagabond BPO and have a perfect monopoly, like many people claim some people have. I can produce 3 of these in ~5 days(timespan does not matter, the numbers are just to keep the example easy)
The demand, my possible custumers, look like this, in the region i sell the ships in:
Group A: Is willing to spend 300 Million+production cost for a vagabond and has a demand of 1 per 5 days Group B: Is willing to spend 200 Million+ and has a demand of 1 per 5 days Group C: Is willing to spend 100 Million+ and has a demand of 2 per 5 days Group D: Is willing to spend 80 Million+ and has a demand of 3 per 5 days
Now, what happens if i start to sell vagabonds for a price of 100 Million(plus production cost): I will sell all 3 and make a profit of 300 Million With a price of 200 Million: I will sell only 2, to group A and B, and Group C and D will whine on the forums, but my Profit = 400 Million With a price of 300 Million: I will sell only 1 but my Profit = 300 Million, and there is lots of whining
In this scenario i would make the same profit selling only 1 for 300 Million as selling all 3 i could produce for 100 Million each, and thats for a lot less work and components. My maximum profit is 400 Million isk, if i sell 2 every 5 days, and less than i could produce.
This is a characteristic thing for monopolies, that you normally need to sell less than you could, but for a higher price to make maximum profit, cause to sell all you produce you would have to lower the price, and not only of the excess, but of all sales. If the real HAC BPO owners sell all they can, it does not matter if they have a monopoly or not, the price would be the same in an open market
Now enter a lucky chap who won a new vagabond BPO If hes stubborn, he will produce himself and the monopoly is gone, the price will now be 80 million isk+production cost because of constant undercutting until both sell the full production volume. If they do not undercut, then they wont sell at all, and as they cant sell all 6 ships for 200 Million, they WILL start to undercut as they are competing for the customers. They could try to create a shared monopoly, but sooner i later i swear one will think he got the shaft, cause for a profitable monopoly they need to sell less than they can, and probably someone will be greedy and try to sell just one more, directly cutting into his partners sales.
What if the old owner buys the BPO for a trillion isk or whatever, what many posters assume would happen.
He now has production capacity of 6 ships. The options are now: Price : Sales : Profit in million isk 300: 1: 300 200: 2: 400 100: 4: 400 80: 6: 480
Thus his new maximum profit is reached if he sells all 6 a lot cheaper. Now many people will say: "but what if the he continues to sell for 200 million and hes not willing to lower the price." That would mean he spent a trillion isk for nothing, and thus with buying the BPO eliminates all his profits for months if not years to come.[/b] The public will of course not gain anything, but the apparently hated monopolist is probably not super rich anymore. He still makes a decent profit, albeit not a maximum one, and he lost a trillion isk.
Add to this that the price of the BPO will probably be determined quite a bit by the current profit expectation, which is usually much too high, meaning at the level of current prices. Even if he buys and produces it and sells at 80 Million isk he is making a huge loss just by the BPO entering the game.
P.S.: And no, the lucky chap with the trillion isk will not buy that many vagabonds to change the market demand significantly
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:42:00 -
[34]
Actually if they undercut by that much resellers will just buy and sell at full price.
The production amount would have to be so much that people would be unwilling to pay the high price because they know there will be pleanty at a lower price. -------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Lil Belle
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:43:00 -
[35]
Alliances are people to, or did you forget that?
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Khyle
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:44:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Khyle on 12/12/2006 18:53:35
Originally by: Mila Prestoc Actually if they undercut by that much resellers will just buy and sell at full price.
The production amount would have to be so much that people would be unwilling to pay the high price because they know there will be pleanty at a lower price.
And those resellers wont be able to sell their ships and need to lower the price.
The bottom line is that you cant sell more ships at the same price, cause there are not enough customers*. And somebody is going to feel shafted cause hes starting to sit on a pile of ships.
* You can only do this if you stupidly sold too cheap before, at a price with more demand than supply, and you didnt react to that to make more proft.
No amount of reselling will change that, sorry, back to square one for you
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JeanPierre
Gallente Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:46:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc Actually if they undercut by that much resellers will just buy and sell at full price.
The production amount would have to be so much that people would be unwilling to pay the high price because they know there will be pleanty at a lower price.
So advertise, especially if you can get your corp behind you. Get enough people trying to be the middleman, and eventually everybody's a middleman with nobody to sell to at hyperinflated prices. And as you said, volume is key, as would a bit of pre-market-release advertising "Hey folks, come to XYZ system in the ABC Region! We're selling T2 Bane Torpedos For Only X (where X = cost + a smaller-ish tacked on profit margin) isk each!" to pick a random set of numbers.
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Ever notice that people who spend money on beer, cigarettes, and lottery tickets are always complaining about being broke and not feeling well? |
Imhotep Khem
Total Mayhem. Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:57:00 -
[38]
The fundamental problem is people do not purchase T2 BPOs for profit. You generally can't do stupid stuff like that in real life. You will go bankrupt and end up being forced to sell your assets. This does not happen in eve. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Kryss Darkdust
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:58:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Phoenix Jones I do not know why people are cheering so much. Unless this lottery has an unlimited timeframe, then whatever items have been seeded will merely be bought off of the person who gets it.
Alliances are really the only groups who can afford to purchase a T2 BPO. In addition, alliances have people with Thousands upon Thousands of research points in hopes to get BPO's (so they have a greater chance now).
Those that they don't get, they'll merely purchase off the person for some odd hundreds of billions, making that person rich, but making everybody else suffer.
I would not cheer yet about the BPO reseeding, because if its a finite limit, then don't expect any significant price changes, while the 40 or so odd people who get the new BPO's sell them to the mega Corps for Isk.
I think your underestimating the value of T2 BPO's. For example there is absolutly no amount of money in the game that would get me to sell a T2 BPO. Once I got it, I'm keeping it. I'm certain a lot of people would do the same. 100 billion ISK is a limited amount of ISK, a T2 BPO pays forever. Are you are gamer? www.playhardliveeasy.blogspot.com |
Fenderson
Finite Horizon The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:58:00 -
[40]
Another component that people keep overlooking is...er...components.
If alot more t2 ships start to be produced, demand for the t2 components produced by moon mining will go up, which means those prices go up and t2 stuff becomes more expensive to produce, making producers charge more.
CHICKS DIG DREADS (and i DONT mean capital ships) |
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Daos Leghki
Paxton Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.12 19:01:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Khyle Stuff on monopolies
This is a good description of monopolies. However, monopolies in the real world have the capability to expand their production. Using your example, let's say that you're capped at producing 1 every 5 days (due to build speed). This means that you're producing less than the efficient amount (that is, the Pareto efficient amount) and also less than your potential profit-maximizing amount. The deadweight loss is larger than it should be, and both consumers and producers are hurt.
On the other hand, Invention could fix this by allowing production to increase and to reduce or eliminate deadweight loss. Of course, the consumer surplus increases, but so does the producer surplus. That said, it makes sense that T2 BPO holders would oppose invention, since their individual surplus drops.
Repopulate Low-Sec Paxton Industries is Recruiting
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Khyle
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.12 19:03:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Fenderson Another component that people keep overlooking is...er...components.
If alot more t2 ships start to be produced, demand for the t2 components produced by moon mining will go up, which means those prices go up and t2 stuff becomes more expensive to produce, making producers charge more.
While you are correct hopefully the new regions will be seeded soon, and the component cost is only 10% of the cost of most HACs.
But with invention working(soonish or so, once data interfaces are in), some T2 items could become more expensive as components increase in price from heightened production of "big ticket" items like hacs or cap rechargers.
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Nicocat
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.12.12 19:06:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lil Belle Alliances are people to, or did you forget that?
Alliances are giant, faceless, money-grubbing machines and you know it =P
Anyway. I hope we get a useful BPO. I don't like the idea of selling it just to make a big chunk of change while giving someone a better monopoly over an item, but I also don't like the idea of T2 rocket BPOs. ----------------------------
Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY
WTB: Friggin' portrait |
JeanPierre
Gallente Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.12.12 19:11:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Fenderson Another component that people keep overlooking is...er...components.
If alot more t2 ships start to be produced, demand for the t2 components produced by moon mining will go up, which means those prices go up and t2 stuff becomes more expensive to produce, making producers charge more.
Only applicable at the bottom end of the pricing curve. At the high end of the price curve it won't matter, assuming the supply of components doesn't dry up, but only raises to meet demand. Eventually the price will stabilize at the "highest component price to produce the lowest per unit price of a T2 item" for both component and item.
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Ever notice that people who spend money on beer, cigarettes, and lottery tickets are always complaining about being broke and not feeling well? |
Roshan longshot
Gallente Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2006.12.12 19:17:00 -
[45]
Well if by chance that snowball makes it through hell, I will probably sell any BPO that I get. I just dont see away to make the kind of isk I need except this.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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baaaaal
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Posted - 2006.12.12 19:42:00 -
[46]
Quote: Another component that people keep overlooking is...er...components.
theres already to much supply of components go look into doing reactions for a profit lol just about every reaction is worth less than the materials to make then in jita
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Naki Uesugi
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Posted - 2006.12.12 19:46:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Noriath Also in real life you can do something against rich people, in Eve you can't, because you don't know who they are, and even if you did, not much you can do to harm the wallet of an alt in an NPC corp.
I like this guy.
Let zeh revolution BEGIN!
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Alora Venoda
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:02:00 -
[48]
if you could not manage to mass produce the T2 BPO, instead of selling it, could you not COPY it instead? i am sure lots of people would be interested in buying the copies too.
of course, researching and copying takes time, just like manufacturing. but it is certainly a valid option.
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Khyle
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:08:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Khyle on 12/12/2006 20:08:37
Tech II Copying takes normally 2-4 times as long as production, so if you sell BPCs for a price that people could produce themselves for prices competable to buying the finished product you as BPO owner will earn much less.
BUT what i learned, for lower end ships(like support cruisers), you can sell BPCs for much more than the profit margin of production, as people seem to pay premium for the benefit of using their own resources and the mobility of a multi-run BPC compared to flying the ships to your base of operation.
So i actually earn more selling BPCs, but that really only applies to the lower end Tech 2 ships i guess.
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Deez Nuttzy
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:08:00 -
[50]
the whole way the seed them out is *** in my opinion. i would like to get one but i know that will never happen. can CCP change it so the player has to do some sort of special story mission for example to do it. but sice it is a T2 BPO make it like 10 parts or something. those of us less fortunate in isk quantity can't get in the raffle so are more or less screwed. who in CCP is getting pockets paid in isk for this or dollars or pounds or euros. we know its not pesos but that is a different thread. and some people get 5 or more, what the hell is that?
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:12:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem The fundamental problem is people do not purchase T2 BPOs for profit. You generally can't do stupid stuff like that in real life. You will go bankrupt and end up being forced to sell your assets. This does not happen in eve.
it happens many times IRL, a Patent in the US is much like having the sole BPO in EVE. if i say had a patent for some new lightbulb that wouldnt burn out for years of constant operation, put out 100watts of light and used not more then 5watts of power(basicly LED based), i go and get a nice patent, well odds are General Electric isnt going to like this very much so they will come to me and offer money for the said patent. even if they let me have a 1billion USD for it, it is cheaper for them because my R&D becomes their R&D basicly and they just need to warm up the factory.
what EVE needs is a form of Licensing system, IRL you can work out an agreement to give me a cut of the profits if you want to make something that i have patented. in EVE we have BPCs but they arent really close to a licensing system.
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Easy Target
Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:32:00 -
[52]
I wouldnt sell a tech II BPO...
1 or 2 months training a noob alt for the relevant skills, few buy orders and you have AFK money making.
with the profit on tech II, if u buy stuff slightly more expensive to get it delivered to you you still make a fortune on it...
Eay Target -----------------------------------------------
No i'm not good... but i have never claimed to be -------------------- |
Gorlish
Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolance
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:57:00 -
[53]
Originally by: wystler Come on vagabond bpo, pappa needs a new pair of everything
From Finding Nemo: "Mine!" :)
-G
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subvert
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:00:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Easy Target I wouldnt sell a tech II BPO...
1 or 2 months training a noob alt for the relevant skills, few buy orders and you have AFK money making.
with the profit on tech II, if u buy stuff slightly more expensive to get it delivered to you you still make a fortune on it...
yeah, free ISK printing press given out at random
what a great system right
you can fight 50 fleets of angels at once and not get something that good
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Nate D
Naughty Ambitious Temptatious Endeavours
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:01:00 -
[55]
If I am lucky enough to receive a BPO... I surely won't be selling it to anyone.
-NÖ --- Voice Comms are Coming ...SoonÖ [Click] |
000Hunter000
Gallente The Lookers
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:06:00 -
[56]
I am so not gonna sell if i do win one.
I have been looking forward to a chance to win a T2 bpo from the day i knew u could win one, so if i do win one i would rather cut of my manhood first then selling it.
No matter what it is i will build them and sell them against reasonable prizes. Resized tag... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp :p
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Father Weebles
Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:08:00 -
[57]
Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui Edited by: D''onryu Shoqui on 12/12/2006 16:27:29 in real life i think its 10% have 80% of the wealth.
there was some news article about it the other week.
atleast in real life its hard to have a monopoly
20% have 80% of the worlds wealth
close
"Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control." |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.12.12 23:33:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Tachy
Originally by: Noriath Also in real life you can do something against rich people, in Eve you can't, because you don't know who they are, and even if you did, not much you can do to harm the wallet of an alt in an NPC corp.
Buy item, pod seller repeatedly.
Yeah I know, you'll probably end up with podding the price driving resellers repeatedly, but that's okay in my book.
How do you pod an NPc corp alt that never undocks?
This is why people are looking forward to Walking in Stations. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2006.12.12 23:41:00 -
[59]
No worries, we won't ever sell ours.
Ourselves Alone |
Krulla
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.12 23:46:00 -
[60]
Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui dont think i have ever known any other mmo where more than likely 5% of the population probably has more than 25% of the isk ingame
I have. It's called real life. Only there, 5% of the people have 80% of the money.
It's just the nature of a free market. No matter what, most of the money will find it's way into the hands of a small elite. How that happens is irrelevant.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.12.13 00:44:00 -
[61]
I don't know about you guys, But I wouldn't sell a T2 bpo to anybody. I'm sure there are others like me who have been itching to get into T2 production for ages.
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Madcat Adams
Mission Runners Anonymous Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.12.13 01:29:00 -
[62]
Depends, if it's a module BPO, something easy to produce for my modest operation, then it's mass production time. If it's some complex BPO, such as a ship, then better to sell it to get investment capital for future operations. And perhaps an outpost for my own amusment.
It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Aimez- "oh ****, this is empire......."
Thanks for the loot, and next time you go out to pirate, carry more tech 2 plz =) |
Tanis Bastar
Caldari Interstitial Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.12.13 02:01:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Hasn't the thought ever occurred to some of you that some people who win BPOs will keep them so that they have a steady source of income for their EVE career, and then they can sell it later on if they feel the need to?
Unless of course CCP nerfs the existing T2 BPOs, in which case you're better off taking the money and running...
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
In real life it's only hard to have a monopoly because most governments have laws in place to prevent it.
No, in RL it's hard to have a monopoly in almost all markets because of competition, which is almost completely lacking in the T2 market (I say almost because, for instance, the new BCs, etc., compete on some level with the T2 HACs, etc.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2006.12.13 02:14:00 -
[64]
In my humble opinion one of the small fixes is to decrease the production time by 50% on ALL high demand/high margin items. This, by itself, will ensure that there is double ammount of ships and modules available to be sold on the marker.
The decrease in production time will affect: T2 Component Price = Higher Margins for the guys who are making them. T2 Material/POS Material Manufacturers = Higher Margins for the guys who are making them.
In turn, this decrease in manufacture time will ensure that more and more Manufacturers will be willing to sell at lesser margin.
Granted, that resellers will punce on it, but eventually things wills tabilise and re-selling will become less rampant.
Since, why should a Cerberus Manufacturer sell his ships for 150 million ISK, when all of them willbe snapped up by the resellers and put up for 250 million ISK? They might as well keep the ISK home and sell straight up at 250!
Anyway, this is an old story. But working within the syste: T2 Reseding at least doble if not triple of what is out there, in conjunction with 50% reduction of Manufacture time will do the trick.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.12.13 02:23:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Splagada Edited by: Splagada on 12/12/2006 16:21:43 well for most itll be the case, as when the people stop dancing from pulling a T2 BPO they will realize you almost need a dedicated corp to produce those
and the prices at first will be worth it
example : the cerb bpo that went a few months ago for about 50 billions takes about 1 year with a dedicated corp to get even, even by selling CERBS !
for that i understand the guy sold, and imo the buyer took a huge risk
yes he prints isk; but starts with a 50b hole in wallet
the whole it takes a corp to produce it dog does not hunt with me.
EvE's tech II production is about as complicated as SWG's old crafting system was. succesful crafters knew they could not possible handle all the resource gathering that it took to be succesful, so they outsourced huge amounts of labor. I harvested for many a armorsmith and leased lots to many a weaponsmith. I organized and catagorized so many stacks of resources that I gave myself heatstroke form brain overload. If you want to have my sympathy, tech II bpo's need to have an ingrediant list like "EC-P8R zydrine". if you didn't have any, you had to use a generic zydrine from reprossed modules that only gave you 90% of the normal resist on a vagabond.
My biggest problem is that dedication and talent is not enough to break into the business. luck is, timing is. The best weaponsmiths on valcyns server didn't have day one resources.
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BoBoZoBo
Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.12.13 03:07:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Phoenix Jones I do not know why people are cheering so much. Unless this lottery has an unlimited timeframe, then whatever items have been seeded will merely be bought off of the person who gets it.
Alliances are really the only groups who can afford to purchase a T2 BPO. In addition, alliances have people with Thousands upon Thousands of research points in hopes to get BPO's (so they have a greater chance now).
Those that they don't get, they'll merely purchase off the person for some odd hundreds of billions, making that person rich, but making everybody else suffer.
I would not cheer yet about the BPO reseeding, because if its a finite limit, then don't expect any significant price changes, while the 40 or so odd people who get the new BPO's sell them to the mega Corps for Isk.
EXACTLYYYYYYYYYY
Some guy is going to get a BPO and sell it to some corp that can give him a better dime for it and it wont change a damn thing because those with the most money will be willing to pay for it.
Hey... I did!
I got a T2 BPO with no money to product it effectively. Sold it and now I am making other things. =========================
Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.12.13 03:30:00 -
[67]
If I get a Vaga or Cerb BPO(slim chance I know) there is no way Im selling it. Even if selling it makes economic sense.
That said of course Im going to sell copies or build ships and sell them for as much as I can get away with.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Warrio
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.13 04:18:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Fugly McTastic Edited by: Fugly McTastic on 12/12/2006 16:27:44
Originally by: DANGEROUS try 5 % have 95% of the isk infact is closer to the mark tbh
Which pretty much mimics real life Way to go people, we buggered the planet and the economy, now were doing it with Computer games...
And you know the best part. We are all sitting here in our homes with out computers... We are the 5%.
Fatal Revelations -LV-
Winners never quit and quitters never win. But those who never win and never quit are ISK farmers. - Plato |
Trotski II
Rasta Tropical Club
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Posted - 2006.12.13 04:23:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Jinx Barker In my humble opinion one of the small fixes is to decrease the production time by 50% on ALL high demand/high margin items. This, by itself, will ensure that there is double ammount of ships and modules available to be sold on the marker.
And won¦t be better then to just seed more of those BPO? 2 millionaires is better then 1 billionaire IMHO.
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DiuxDium
The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.13 04:54:00 -
[70]
T2 should be expensive. That is all.
Timeout! Party time. |
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Miss Overlord
Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.12.13 04:58:00 -
[71]
Originally by: DiuxDium T2 should be expensive. That is all.
not as expensive as it is but more epxneisve than t1 - that is all
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2006.12.13 06:37:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Trotski II
Originally by: Jinx Barker In my humble opinion one of the small fixes is to decrease the production time by 50% on ALL high demand/high margin items. This, by itself, will ensure that there is double ammount of ships and modules available to be sold on the marker.
And won¦t be better then to just seed more of those BPO? 2 millionaires is better then 1 billionaire IMHO.
Yeop... as mentioned bellow in the quote:
Originally by: Jinx Barker Anyway, this is an old story. But working within the system: T2 Reseding at least doble if not triple of what is out there, in conjunction with 50% reduction of Manufacture time will do the trick.
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sableye
principle of motion R i s e
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Posted - 2006.12.13 06:43:00 -
[73]
Edited by: sableye on 13/12/2006 06:44:01 if I won something this time around I'd probably sell it depending on what it is I already have 2 useless bpo's rotting in a hanger doing nothing no sense in having a third I have been tempted to sell them 2 for a long time only reason I have'nt is they sentimental and I have'nt needed the isk but who is gonna spend hours making dumb tech 2 ammo which will probably make you 10 mil isk profit a week if your lucky I'd get more from 20 mins mining. Join The Fight With Promo Today |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.13 09:53:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Krulla It's just the nature of a free market. No matter what, most of the money will find it's way into the hands of a small elite. How that happens is irrelevant.
Yes and no. The t2 distribution system could easily be designed that this won't happen, at least not to the current extend.
Imagine, there would be no t2 BPOs. The you would only get BPCs from research agents, be it by lottery or by a fixed invention. Someone who is running 65654 R&D alts will still get a good amount of the t2 profit, but not all. It wouldn't be a closed system. And anyone who wants to be in business would have to continously work for it.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente HelpCorp United Eden's Fire
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Posted - 2006.12.13 09:59:00 -
[75]
WTB Hammerhead II BPO
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BlackeyeHunter
The Trade and Frieght Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.13 10:23:00 -
[76]
I love people that post with no idea :)
There are moans and screams of T2 BPO this and T2 BPO that, but still, nobody has come up with a fairer way to distribute them that a lottery.
1. If they were for sale, the richest would buy them. 2. If you were allowed to trade your research points in for them, the best npcers with the longest running lvl 4 agents would get them. 3. Loads of other ideas that are in the best interest of longest playing chars and richest chars.
A lottery is the only way that newish players have any chance at all at getting one of these - however small that chance may be. If they choose to sell it, then so be it. However, the distribution was fair.
Anyone that mentions Alliances buying BPO's obviously has never been in an Alliance. Most BPO's are bought by big T2 Corps or individuals within these corps. They might be part of an Alliance or not, but its nothing to do with 'Alliance Power' or **** like that.
And Phoneix Jones, if you win one, I'm sure we won't see any more pointless posts from you. Please?
For the record, I'm not rich, don't own a BPO, and have some lvl 2 research agents. Hopeing for the Jackpot FTW !!!!111
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Seishomaru
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Posted - 2006.12.13 10:24:00 -
[77]
I just wanted that invention was capable of changin t1 BPO in NAMED t1 BPO until reaching highest named then being able to produce T2 BPC... EASIER than its now.
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Splagada
Minmatar Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2006.12.13 10:26:00 -
[78]
well if you hit an officer spawn, you can get billions too, from pure luck. to kill, it requires what... 2 months of skills at worst? or 2 weeks and 3 friends?
between that and a lottery that, to get you in, needs you to train several skills to 5 and do courier missions, i dont know which is more based on pure luck ------
relaxed corp looking for members |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:08:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Aramendel on 13/12/2006 11:10:45
Originally by: Splagada well if you hit an officer spawn, you can get billions too, from pure luck. to kill, it requires what... 2 months of skills at worst? or 2 weeks and 3 friends?
Once.
If you wouldn't get BPOs from the lottery but lets say 50 run BPCs (for cruisers/BCs, for smaller stuff obviously more) then it would be compareable. But with a BPO it is longterm more profitable by a few orders of magnitude.
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Brannor McThife
Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:28:00 -
[80]
my aim is simple. If I ever get a non-ammo T2 BPO, I'm going to research it, and then produce BPCs and sell those for the first few months. Yes, I will make less, but I hate the T2 Lottery(tm), even though I have R&D agents.
-G
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Vanguard Frontiers Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:38:00 -
[81]
People forget the logistical value of the BPO.
Having the BPO means you can make on the spot - E.G If you have a outpost, and cannot be arsed moving ships from empire, then there is massive value in local produce.
ISK is only part of the reason --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
Alton
Caldari Deadzone Innovation Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:46:00 -
[82]
I say give me all the T2 bpo's and be done with it but i think i have more luck at winning the Euro lottery hehe
Good luck to all at getting t2 bpo's
Regards
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