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BirdStrike
State War Academy Caldari State
124
|
Posted - 2015.11.06 19:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
I reguarly keep an eye on the system kb's to pick up intel on gankers to keep an eye on, and this little beauty caught my eye.
Seriously, 3.6bn for cap stable overtank on a L4 golem - who still does this? In osmon of all places!
https://zkillboard.com/kill/50018241/ |
Paranoid Loyd
7411
|
Posted - 2015.11.06 19:07:52 -
[2] - Quote
WTF are you talking about? Putting shiny modules on your ship will get you killed. It has nothing to do with cap stability. Also, that ship isn't even cap stable.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1989
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Posted - 2015.11.06 19:13:39 -
[3] - Quote
title should be "fitting a bunch of senseless expensive mods will get you killed."
it is a freaking golem, you could put a cheap small or medium shield booster on it and be cap stable and still be over tanked for lv4 missions. This also leaves a bunch of slots to fit damage application mods which also mean you can fit t2 launchers and do more damage with fury ammo.
and osmon is a great spot, as you get people who don't realize the opportunities of lanngisi or even apanake, where they would make more for running the same missions.
@ChainsawPlankto
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BirdStrike
State War Academy Caldari State
124
|
Posted - 2015.11.06 19:31:14 -
[4] - Quote
Well if he's not going for cap stability i have no ******* idea what he was trying to achieve with those rigs and a recharger. Its not like the golly lacks cargo space for cap charges. |
BirdStrike
State War Academy Caldari State
124
|
Posted - 2015.11.06 19:35:31 -
[5] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:title should be "fitting a bunch of senseless expensive mods will get you killed."
it is a freaking golem, you could put a cheap small or medium shield booster on it and be cap stable and still be over tanked for lv4 missions. This also leaves a bunch of slots to fit damage application mods which also mean you can fit t2 launchers and do more damage with fury ammo.
and osmon is a great spot, as you get people who don't realize the opportunities of lanngisi or even apanake, where they would make more for running the same missions.
I've amended the title. Thank you for your suggestion. Tbh i didn't run it through the EFT so looking at a cap recharger and the rigs my only assumption was he was building a golem 2008 permaboost edition.
If its not even permaboost for 3.6bn then lol.
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David Therman
University of Caille Gallente Federation
99
|
Posted - 2015.11.06 19:49:56 -
[6] - Quote
I'm curious why he didn't go the whole hog and throw in a faction cap recharger. What's an extra 20m compared to all that?
In all seriousness, throwing the eagle drone link in there just about sums that fit up; completely unnecessary.
Edit: And I wish I was there to ninja-scoop the loot. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
852
|
Posted - 2015.11.06 20:13:42 -
[7] - Quote
Implants, yo! With the right implants he can be cap stable. |
Paranoid Loyd
7412
|
Posted - 2015.11.06 20:51:01 -
[8] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Implants, yo! With the right implants he can be cap stable. Fair enough, didn't add those in, it probably was.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Kalixian
The Mirrored
7
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Posted - 2015.11.06 21:05:55 -
[9] - Quote
What is the obsession with cap stable mission boats? It's a Golem. It will never run out of cap in a mission. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
852
|
Posted - 2015.11.06 21:15:52 -
[10] - Quote
Kalixian wrote:What is the obsession with cap stable mission boats? It's a Golem. It will never run out of cap in a mission.
But, but, then I wouldn't be able to go AFK and make a lasagna while missioning. |
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BirdStrike
State War Academy Caldari State
124
|
Posted - 2015.11.06 21:22:18 -
[11] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Kalixian wrote:What is the obsession with cap stable mission boats? It's a Golem. It will never run out of cap in a mission. But, but, then I wouldn't be able to go AFK and make a lasagna while missioning.
Well the 3 plex that boat would cost to replace would be better spent on a welfare fit mach and ordering dominos.
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RainMan
Veil Of Delusion
0
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Posted - 2015.11.07 00:40:51 -
[12] - Quote
Hey
Its cap stable with the ab off and my current implants :)
6:08 mins cap with all on
Nice kill btw I was like half armor , then half struct then dead.
Regards Rain |
Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
673
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 05:31:57 -
[13] - Quote
^ taking it to the chin like a baws.
'Spect. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
607
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 05:42:03 -
[14] - Quote
Kalixian wrote:What is the obsession with cap stable mission boats? It's a Golem. It will never run out of cap in a mission. I will bite on this one. If you live in an area that is prone to internet drop outs being cap stable is a virtual requirement unless you like losing ships while you struggle to re-connect. How do I know this? because it happens to me at least twice every week. Because you do not need the security of knowing that your ship has enough cap to keep going while you take 20 minutes or more to re-connect does not mean that others do not. |
Ayx Shewma
0scope Goonswarm Federation
90
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 13:34:34 -
[15] - Quote
BirdStrike wrote: who still does this?
Check the pilot's name.
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BirdStrike
State War Academy Caldari State
126
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 13:42:12 -
[16] - Quote
Well here is a more economical fit for you, that is still capstable.
I'd still consider this hugely overtanked, but it would at least give you some decent buffer against gankers, and make it a lot more expensive to gank vs cost of modules fitted.
[Golem, antigank shiny buffer overtank] Damage Control II Domination Ballistic Control System Domination Ballistic Control System Domination Ballistic Control System
Gistum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Gistum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Gist A-Type EM Ward Field Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster Domination 100MN Afterburner Republic Fleet Target Painter Caldari Navy Large Shield Extender
Dread Guristas Torpedo Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Torpedo Dread Guristas Torpedo Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Torpedo Dread Guristas Torpedo Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Torpedo Dread Guristas Torpedo Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Torpedo Auto Targeting System II [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Bastion Module I
Large Core Defense Field Extender II Large Core Defense Field Extender II
'Augmented' Hobgoblin x5
Okay, the numbers:
Domi BCS are basically 23m each vs 108 for CN varients, in bastion the difference is 57 DPS for a cost of 265m. so you are fitting 324m of extra gank bait for 53 DPS, totally not worth it
Gist C's are about 220m atm, so 2x Gist C's invuns is about the same cost as 1 x CN invun. The addition of the A spec EM field gives you a solid omnitank for an extra 80 m. All told these three shields will cost you about 500m - little more than the price of one CN - and any ganker needs to weigh up the loot fairy gods might not drop them and they'd need to drop all 3 to pay for even 5 tornados.
Gist C type medium booster. With bastion bonus you absoloutely do not need a XL booster, a medium booster and a full crystal set gives you better results with the advantage is in hisec you have to be beyond dumb to lose your pod missioning, and unlike shiny modules your implants cant be looted.
So a C type med booster will run you about 89 m vs the 475m the XL and 77m your amp is costing you - another 463m stripped from the gankbait.
Domi afterburner - you really don't need deadspace, mauraders are slow as bricks.
Downgrading your booster means you can lose the cap recharger and cap rigs in favour of shield extenders, giving you much needed buffer against gankers. so here is the numbers with all crystal set, level 5's.
NON BASTION
1146 DPS (with drones), 7187 volley - out to 30K. (you can swap for cruises, but meh, golem is park and brawl in my book. 175 DPS passive shield regen, cap stable at 76 pc static, 48 percent stable with burner. 583 DPS booster running, cap stable at 48 percent. 11 mins 5 seconds with boost and afterburner.
resists: 81.2 EM. 77.9 therm, 80.8 kin, 81.6 explosive (57/64/44/23 armor resists).
Shield HP: 22,037, armor 8375, hull 9625 - effective EHP 152,962
WITH BASTION
1389 EHP Booster runing cap stable at 48 percent.
resists: 86.6 EM / 84.7 Th / 86.2 kin / 86.9 ex (69.6/74.9/60/45 armor)
effective EHP 213,779
Some thoughts There is nothing especially expensive on this build:
500m hardeners 79 booster 60 BCS 88m launchers (22m vs 75m a piece for CN's) 25m burner
all told you are looking at maybe 600m - 650m in mods there, which given the upgrade in EHP needing more gank to take down makes you a loss-maker.
DISCLAIMER
I'm not saying this is the BEST WAY TO RUN A GOLEM. OR THE FASTEST. OR THE CHEAPEST.
the goal of this fit was to show how much money was wasted on Rainmans fit, and the fact you can get a more than needed overomni tank with lots of anti-gank buffer for much less money, while still being cap stable permaboosting.
With near 80 percent resists across the board, over 1000 dps even without bastion, i would consider this an absoloute top end shiny build for L4's.
Obviously this is with a couple of billion spent on a crystal set and top whack implants, and all skills at L5 - but you should really have the skills to fly a marauder, and spending the isk on implants is much safer than putting them on your ship.
you'd really only need the bastion boost to clear out heavy dps, after which 585 is more than plenty for most L4 missions. |
RainMan
Veil Of Delusion
2
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 14:49:24 -
[17] - Quote
Cheers for the feed back
Regards Rain |
BirdStrike
State War Academy Caldari State
126
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 15:58:17 -
[18] - Quote
RainMan wrote:Cheers for the feed back
Regards Rain
No worries, props for you taking such a big loss on the chin without crying. It can be very tempting to get carried away with the bling but SOE hubs are gank central these days, so if you are flying ubershiny then its best to do it in a quiet non mission hub. If you want to run SOE missions you really need to keep bling in check.
Some other thoughts:
Use a fast ship and make a set of insta-warp bookmarks from the gates (each side) and also the station, the longer you are in align the more time they have to scan your fit and organise gank dps.
If you see a gank squad on the gate station (if its the station go for a redock) then hold your cloak and don't panic. Use the timer to think through your order of defence and wait ideally until a bunch of people decloak to add some confusion
Overheat your racks, get your hardeners and suitcase online, set drones to aggressive if you have ECMS and spit them out, start your booster and spam warp on your instawarp bm, if they have a light tackler on you then put your exm drones on him as soon as he goes suspect/red and keep spamming warp.
Make sure you have gank suspects set to red, consider parking your mission bird in a seperate station to your mission agent amd use a fast inty/shuttle to pick up and complete missions with, they are mostly watching the agent station for victims,
Mix it up and dont be predictable. You've probably been watchlisted now for flying gucci kit, weaponise boredom and fly rubbish ships - meta ravens, domis whatever for a while.
At the end of the day, its your choice, but don't be 'that guy' who is a flying atm for gankers, fly effective but cheap and make sure they pass you over for juicyer targets. |
BirdStrike
State War Academy Caldari State
126
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 16:12:13 -
[19] - Quote
Btw i wasn't involved in your gank, i picked up your loss checking the osmon kb for intel. If you want to fly safer check your mission system for recent suicide ganks and losses, set standing on the gankers to red so at least you can see when they are active in system and take precautions.
Always have a pvp tab with nothing but player ships on it, and keep running d scan on it, make sure you've got combat probes listed as well. If you see a bunch if tornados or large no of catalysts up and combat probes out, make sure you are aligned to a safespot.
You have to really fly hisec with the same rules as low/null these days. Your best way to avoid a gank is live intel, and if you want to mission afk use a throaway sentry domi or similar. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
52138
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 16:19:41 -
[20] - Quote
First of all, I see nothing wrong with fitting Deadspace / Faction mods. What else are you gonna spend the ISK on ? In case you don't know this, having "Bling" fits decreases the amount of time spent running missions and or Exploration sites.
In fact almost all of my ships are fit with Deadspace / Faction mods, including my Tech 1 Rifter.
Secondly posting Killmails is only allowed in Crime & Punishment Sub-Forum. Seems to me you're actually trolling the player who owned the ship (Kudos to RainMan for staying cool).
Anyway, OP reported.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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BirdStrike
State War Academy Caldari State
126
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 16:39:50 -
[21] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:First of all, I see nothing wrong with fitting Deadspace / Faction mods. What else are you gonna spend the ISK on ? In case you don't know this, having "Bling" fits decreases the amount of time spent running missions and or Exploration sites.
In fact almost all of my ships are fit with Deadspace / Faction mods, including my Tech 1 Rifter.
Secondly posting Killmails is only allowed in Crime & Punishment Sub-Forum. Seems to me you're actually trolling the player who owned the ship (Kudos to RainMan for staying cool).
Anyway, OP reported.
DMC
I'm not trolling him, i'm using his loss as an example to remind other mission runners the dangers of running uberbling ships in mission hubs. If you want to hand over billions to other players, that is your choice, but i've seen too many of these lossmails where people are spending huge sums for negligble gains when putting some thought into fitting for the job in hand will save them a lot of isk and tears in the long run.
Its not my killmail, so im not boasting over it, but fine report away if it makes you feel special, let other mission runners not see the outcome and learn the hard expensive way.
I've got no problem with people running deadspace mods, if you bithered to read my posts you'll see some suggestions on how to fit decent bling without being gankbait, i'm not sure why i'd have bothered to spend time in EFT suggesting and pricing up a replacement fit if i was trolling him. I mission in osmon and i'd rather people didn't line the pockets of gankers because it attracts more of them and makes missioning in that system a pita.
And if you factor in the amount of grinding it will take to replace a 3.6bn ganked mission ship, the extra few percent that bling adds really doesn't stack up.
But crack on bro. You want to be a flying cashbox for CODE members its your perogative. |
Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1998
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 18:40:17 -
[22] - Quote
BirdStrike wrote:Domi BCS are basically 23m each vs 108 for CN varients, in bastion the difference is 57 DPS for a cost of 265m. so you are fitting 324m of extra gank bait for 53 DPS, totally not worth it
Gist C's are about 220m atm, so 2x Gist C's invuns is about the same cost as 1 x CN invun. The addition of the A spec EM field gives you a solid omnitank for an extra 80 m. All told these three shields will cost you about 500m - little more than the price of one CN - and any ganker needs to weigh up the loot fairy gods might not drop them and they'd need to drop all 3 to pay for even 5 tornados.
Gist C type medium booster. With bastion bonus you absoloutely do not need a XL booster, a medium booster and a full crystal set gives you better results with the advantage is in hisec you have to be beyond dumb to lose your pod missioning, and unlike shiny modules your implants cant be looted.
So a C type med booster will run you about 89 m vs the 475m the XL and 77m your amp is costing you - another 463m stripped from the gankbait.
Domi afterburner - you really don't need deadspace, mauraders are slow as bricks.
Downgrading your booster means you can lose the cap recharger and cap rigs in favour of shield extenders, giving you much needed buffer against gankers. so here is the numbers with all crystal set, level 5's.
NON BASTION
1146 DPS (with drones), 7187 volley - out to 30K. (you can swap for cruises, but meh, golem is park and brawl in my book. 175 DPS passive shield regen, cap stable at 76 pc static, 48 percent stable with burner. 583 DPS booster running, cap stable at 48 percent. 11 mins 5 seconds with boost and afterburner.
resists: 81.2 EM. 77.9 therm, 80.8 kin, 81.6 explosive (57/64/44/23 armor resists).
Shield HP: 22,037, armor 8375, hull 9625 - effective EHP 152,962
WITH BASTION
1389 EHP Booster runing cap stable at 48 percent.
resists: 86.6 EM / 84.7 Th / 86.2 kin / 86.9 ex (69.6/74.9/60/45 armor)
effective EHP 213,779
Some thoughts There is nothing especially expensive on this build:
500m hardeners 79 booster 60 BCS 88m launchers (22m vs 75m a piece for CN's) 25m burner
all told you are looking at maybe 600m - 650m in mods there, which given the upgrade in EHP needing more gank to take down makes you a loss-maker.
DISCLAIMER
I'm not saying this is the BEST WAY TO RUN A GOLEM. OR THE FASTEST. OR THE CHEAPEST.
the goal of this fit was to show how much money was wasted on Rainmans fit, and the fact you can get a more than needed overomni tank with lots of anti-gank buffer for much less money, while still being cap stable permaboosting.
With near 80 percent resists across the board, over 1000 dps even without bastion, i would consider this an absoloute top end shiny build for L4's.
Obviously this is with a couple of billion spent on a crystal set and top whack implants, and all skills at L5 - but you should really have the skills to fly a marauder, and spending the isk on implants is much safer than putting them on your ship.
you'd really only need the bastion boost to clear out heavy dps, after which 585 is more than plenty for most L4 missions. you'd probably want to take a mobile depot and rip the extender off in favour of another painter if you are running torps, or you could fit with cruises, and fit some decent missile implants to compensate for lack of rigs.
domi bcus have the same damage buff stats as t2, but they use a little less CPU, so on a golem you can probably just use t2
CN invluns are rather expensive as tag prices change and all the deadspace invluns drive other prices down. I'd compere prices with dread gurista invluns. Many items have the same stats, but can have very different prices. and gist c-type invluns should have similar stats and prices.
I used to run a pithum c-type, haven't compared prices with gist in a while. don't even need a crystal set.
afterburners are overall pretty cheap, I wouldn't worry too much about which one is fit. and I'd compare domi/republic fleet as they have the same stats. 29m for domi (heck gist c-type is 26.8m) vs 55m for an gist x-type. the core abs are a bit more expensive as they are more popular as oversized ab thanks to the lower pg req.
past that I try and fit cheap, and then throw as many painters and now missile guidance comps as possible.
@ChainsawPlankto
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
52139
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 18:57:15 -
[23] - Quote
Despite what you say, it's plain to see that your point for creating this thread was to ridicule someone who lost a ship fitted with Deadspace / Faction mods.
The fact that your character's Date of Birth is 2015-10-05 and your first Forum Visit was on 2015-10-05 in Out of Pod Experience sub-forum tells me you're an alt of another character who probably already knows the Forum rules.
Obviously you must be new in this sub-forum otherwise you'd know who the regulars are. Referring to me as a whining random carebear along with the other insinuations / personal attacks you directed towards me will only incite more reporting, especially since it's coming from some 'Johnny come lately" such as yourself..
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1998
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 19:09:50 -
[24] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:First of all, I see nothing wrong with fitting Deadspace / Faction mods. What else are you gonna spend the ISK on ? In case you don't know this, having "Bling" fits decreases the amount of time spent running missions and or Exploration sites.
In fact almost all of my ships are fit with Deadspace / Faction mods, including my Tech 1 Rifter.
Secondly posting Killmails is only allowed in Crime & Punishment Sub-Forum. Seems to me you're actually trolling the player who owned the ship (Kudos to RainMan for staying cool).
Anyway, OP reported.
DMC some bling helps, some bling just attracts the wrong attention. adding expensive tank when you don't need it wont speed up mission times. A golem should pretty much always fit in that category for missions. Sure some ships the extra bling tank lets them tank an extra spawn for a blitz, or adds safety which can both be good things. In this case I'd say adding damage and application would speed it up, some faction bcus and target painters are about the best you can do there though. At least outside of going to officer level bcus.
KMs yea they aren't exactly allowed, but sometimes they can really help get a point across. If the thread said watch out gankers active in osmon, and I go to zkill and search up osmon it is pretty much the first kill I see. Sadly some people abuse them so the blanket ban usually makes sense. But when you can't even post your own lossmails to get advice
@ChainsawPlankto
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ISD Buldath
ISD STAR
202
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 19:38:54 -
[25] - Quote
Topic Moved to Crime and Punishment
~ISD Buldath
Interstellar Services Department
Support, Training and Resources Division
Lt. Commander
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
9085
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 19:44:59 -
[26] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote: Obviously you must be new in this sub-forum otherwise you'd know who the regulars are. Referring to me as a whining random carebear along with the other insinuations / personal attacks you directed towards me will only incite more reporting, especially since it's coming from some 'Johnny come lately" such as yourself..
DMC
I'm sorry, but acting in this holier-than-thou manner (as an "unofficial and freelance ISD") and treating M&C as your own personal fiefdom is hardly constructive either really, is it? The bolded part in your quote is quite breathtakingly arrogant and unconscionable, and would seem - ironically - to breach Rule 4 and possibly 2 of the rules.
I do respect the breadth of your knowledge but the way you seem to come across sometimes to others is belittling to say the least.
Besides, if the OP was truly trolling, as you say, it is highly unlikely that they would've followed up with an alternative fit as presented on the previous page.
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
9085
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 19:45:50 -
[27] - Quote
ISD Buldath wrote:Topic Moved to Crime and Punishment
Brilliant
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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BirdStrike
State War Academy Caldari State
130
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 20:01:29 -
[28] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:ISD Buldath wrote:Topic Moved to Crime and Punishment Brilliant
Genius move by Captain Carebear Crimson.
I'm sure Rainman really appreciates his intervention and putting his love of loot pinatas on the watchlist of the entire criminal fraternity,
This is what hapoens when you try and help carebears.
So tell us Mister Crimson, these deadspace fit rifters, where do you like to fly them. Some gents here might want to inspect the quality of your fittings....
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BirdStrike
State War Academy Caldari State
130
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 20:03:15 -
[29] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote: Obviously you must be new in this sub-forum otherwise you'd know who the regulars are. Referring to me as a whining random carebear along with the other insinuations / personal attacks you directed towards me will only incite more reporting, especially since it's coming from some 'Johnny come lately" such as yourself..
DMC
I'm sorry, but acting in this holier-than-thou manner (as an "unofficial and freelance ISD") and treating M&C as your own personal fiefdom is hardly constructive either really, is it? The bolded part in your quote is quite breathtakingly arrogant and unconscionable, and would seem - ironically - to breach Rule 4 and possibly 2 of the rules. I do respect the breadth of your knowledge but the way you seem to come across sometimes to others is belittling to say the least. Besides, if the OP was truly trolling, as you say, it is highly unlikely that they would've followed up with an alternative fit as presented on the previous page.
I called him a whining carebear bumblefck. He didn't like it. Not one bit. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
9088
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 20:18:07 -
[30] - Quote
Apparently not lol, he certainly took umbrage with it. :)
E: on the plus side, your thread is now in the coolest part of the Forums, even if this wasn't your intended destination
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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