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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4256
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Posted - 2016.02.21 13:33:18 -
[31] - Quote
Unfortunately no. :(
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Carbon Alabel
The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance
8
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Posted - 2016.02.21 16:10:49 -
[32] - Quote
I'm looking forward to presenting my submission and looking at what the other contestants will make :D In the meanwhile, I have a couple of questions:
What are your thoughts on the possibility of contestants listing a friend who had little or nothing to do with the development of the submission as a team member in order to double the rewards should they win one of the prizes?
Why use Google forms for accepting submissions, since they have no access control and make attempts at tampering much easier? A simple SSO app would have done the trick ;)
Can one of the top three entries also win the CCP Seagull's choice award or are the two mutually exclusive? What would someone do with two identical signed books?
Considering the long time span you allocated for judging the submissions, I'm assuming you will be studying all the submissions in detail. Will the submissions outside of the top three also be ranked or will they be published at all? Also, may we know which CCP employees will be judging the submissions?
"By entering a submission, you grant CCP the right to use your name for advertising and marketing purposes, without additional compensation, unless otherwise prohibited by law." Does this refer to the name of my character or to my real name? I'd very much like my real name to stay out of this.
I'm sorry, this turned out to be a lot more of much longer questions than I first had in mind. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4256
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Posted - 2016.02.22 11:33:19 -
[33] - Quote
Carbon Alabel wrote:What are your thoughts on the possibility of contestants listing a friend who had little or nothing to do with the development of the submission as a team member in order to double the rewards should they win one of the prizes?
Not much we can do to stop this.
Carbon Alabel wrote:Why use Google forms for accepting submissions, since they have no access control and make attempts at tampering much easier? A simple SSO app would have done the trick ;)
I am the only one with the ability to edit the responses. The "worst" someone could do is submit an application under someone elses name... but if the same app gets submitted twice it shouldn't be hard to figure out who the original author is. Especially since I am looking at each one every day. :)
Carbon Alabel wrote:Can one of the top three entries also win the CCP Seagull's choice award or are the two mutually exclusive? What would someone do with two identical signed books?
No, you can only win once.
Carbon Alabel wrote:Considering the long time span you allocated for judging the submissions, I'm assuming you will be studying all the submissions in detail. Will the submissions outside of the top three also be ranked or will they be published at all? Also, may we know which CCP employees will be judging the submissions?
Outside the top 3 they will not be ranked no. I am also not comfortable talking about who the judges will be at this point. Will probably mention it when we publish a dev blog but not right now.
Carbon Alabel wrote:"By entering a submission, you grant CCP the right to use your name for advertising and marketing purposes, without additional compensation, unless otherwise prohibited by law." Does this refer to the name of my character or to my real name? I'd very much like my real name to stay out of this.
That is basically a line from our lawyers. I am hoping to link to all of the Git repos when done and those do require a license and I believe your name has to be in that. I have no intention of ever mentioning anyones real name or character name. If we ever were to say anything it would only be character names but I fear since we are linking to a Git repo a real name could be figured out. Open to suggestions on how to better handle this.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Carbon Alabel
The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance
9
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Posted - 2016.02.22 15:39:17 -
[34] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:That is basically a line from our lawyers. I am hoping to link to all of the Git repos when done and those do require a license and I believe your name has to be in that. I have no intention of ever mentioning anyones real name or character name. If we ever were to say anything it would only be character names but I fear since we are linking to a Git repo a real name could be figured out. Open to suggestions on how to better handle this. Releasing under a pseudonym? That's what I'm doing. I'm already operating dual accounts on many services to split my real life and EVE related activities, and I've recently done so on GitHub as well. I believe most legal systems don't make a significant distinction between releasing under your real name or under a pseudonym, and I don't see a reason why that pseudonym wouldn't be my character's name.
Also, I have another question: Does the 2nd place prize, a "Winners choice of Super Capital SKIN" only include those SKINs which can be purchased in the New Eden Store for Aurum, or does it also include the other two limited edition SKINs, namely the Nyx Umbral SKIN and the Sansha Victory SKIN? |
NUBIARN
Brutal Ballerinas
24
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Posted - 2016.02.22 18:03:39 -
[35] - Quote
having a play with the crest stuff atm, interesting learning curve from xml to JSON. pretty much got the public stuff under my belt, tbh documentation is a tad scarce but oh well we engineers never are that good at paperwork !
so now playing with the authetication stuff, so my question is what do I put in the callback URL if I`m writing say a desktop app, err think win10 app, therefore no callback url available, this is proably obvious but I don't seem to be able to figure this point out. |
Ali 2k
Triton Heavy Industries
1
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Posted - 2016.02.22 18:31:56 -
[36] - Quote
NUBIARN wrote:having a play with the crest stuff atm, interesting learning curve from xml to JSON. pretty much got the public stuff under my belt, tbh documentation is a tad scarce but oh well we engineers never are that good at paperwork ! so now playing with the authetication stuff, so my question is what do I put in the callback URL if I`m writing say a desktop app, err think win10 app, therefore no callback url available, this is proably obvious but I don't seem to be able to figure this point out.
I've got around this by sending the callback URL to a php page on my own web server where the user grabs the authentication token and pastes it into the desktop app - not the prettiest user flow but it works.. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4256
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Posted - 2016.02.22 22:28:31 -
[37] - Quote
Carbon Alabel wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:That is basically a line from our lawyers. I am hoping to link to all of the Git repos when done and those do require a license and I believe your name has to be in that. I have no intention of ever mentioning anyones real name or character name. If we ever were to say anything it would only be character names but I fear since we are linking to a Git repo a real name could be figured out. Open to suggestions on how to better handle this. Releasing under a pseudonym? That's what I'm doing. I'm already operating dual accounts on many services to split my real life and EVE related activities, and I've recently done so on GitHub as well. I believe most legal systems don't make a significant distinction between releasing under your real name or under a pseudonym, and I don't see a reason why that pseudonym wouldn't be my character's name. Also, I have another question: Does the 2nd place prize, a "Winners choice of Super Capital SKIN" only include those SKINs which can be purchased in the New Eden Store for Aurum, or does it also include the other two limited edition SKINs, namely the Nyx Umbral SKIN and the Sansha Victory SKIN?
A pseudonym is perfect and I would really recommend people do that if they don't want to link real names to EVE names. I will admit I don't think much about this as I don't care and have linked RL to EVE for a long time. So hearing other people talk about this stuff is always interesting to me.
That would be choice of super capital skin from the NES sorry.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4256
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Posted - 2016.02.22 22:31:05 -
[38] - Quote
Ali 2k wrote:NUBIARN wrote:having a play with the crest stuff atm, interesting learning curve from xml to JSON. pretty much got the public stuff under my belt, tbh documentation is a tad scarce but oh well we engineers never are that good at paperwork ! so now playing with the authetication stuff, so my question is what do I put in the callback URL if I`m writing say a desktop app, err think win10 app, therefore no callback url available, this is proably obvious but I don't seem to be able to figure this point out. I've got around this by sending the callback URL to a php page on my own web server where the user grabs the authentication token and pastes it into the desktop app - not the prettiest user flow but it works..
This is the solution I have always been most fond of. Another way to do it is have your application request a unique and short lived identifier from a server you host and pass that as a URL parameter to the SSO when you direct the user to log in. When the user is directed to your web site with the unique identifier you use that to know what app the user is associated with and you send a secure message to the app with the authorization information.
So long as you have a secure way of talking between your app and a server you control it can work really well.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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NUBIARN
Brutal Ballerinas
24
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Posted - 2016.02.23 18:21:38 -
[39] - Quote
thank you for the helpful replies, it is appreciated.
I don't want to derail the contest thread as I think it is a really good idea to push the crest functionality and has pushed me to try it out, mainly as I really enjoy the XML api, and have learned so many useful real life tradable skills that have helped my day to day job, great to learn stuff from a pastime with data that is complex but understandable from game experience.
I like the way crest is set out and think I may start using JSON instead of XML so cool beans, the crest api is expandable and once over the initial hurdle pretty easy to use, and contains a lot of easy to navigate information.
the one downfall I see from the crest stuff thou is this authentication system effectively meaning anyone wanting to use restricted data in their application would have to effectively run a web server to cope with the authentication system, that is assuming I now understand the call-back system. well great if you application is a web site, not so good if you app is desktop / phone or tablet based. I had a multitude of ideas for a win10 universal apps [I like this platform a lot], but the authentication system seems to negate this use.
so back to my original question, how do I use authenticated crest with no access to a server for the call-back url ?
apologies if this seems like a moan however I am either mssing the point which is quite possible or the authenticated crest is a non starter for apps that don't have a website. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7240
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Posted - 2016.02.23 22:51:31 -
[40] - Quote
While I was originally planning on entering into this, I'm afraid I've decided against developing a third party application. A CCP dev blog posted today has explained that third party applications that can be used to provide an unfair advantage over players not using the application can result in bans. With this in mind I cannot in good conscience produce any third party application, as almost every available use of CREST or the EVE API could be used by a player to gain an unfair advantage. For example market information aggregation will allow a trader using the program to more rapidly identify trade opportunities than a player without the application, and war/kill information would more rapidly provide an application user with intel than a non-application user.
CCP, you should really consider why you are allowing such easily exploited information through CREST when clearly the use of such data in a third party application would be a severe breach of the EULA.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Adria Blue
Digital Fiction Space Hicks
0
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Posted - 2016.02.23 23:46:12 -
[41] - Quote
Adria Blue wrote:Would making an API interface class that allows the creation of apps be able to enter? Or does the entry have to be an actual application for a particular purpose?
Thanks for replying.
By the way, that was sarcasm. Probably too late to enter now even if it is allowed. |
Uppsy Daisy
Perkone Caldari State
643
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Posted - 2016.02.24 00:16:07 -
[42] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:While I was originally planning on entering into this, I'm afraid I've decided against developing a third party application. A CCP dev blog posted today has explained that third party applications that can be used to provide an unfair advantage over players not using the application can result in bans. With this in mind I cannot in good conscience produce any third party application, as almost every available use of CREST or the EVE API could be used by a player to gain an unfair advantage. For example market information aggregation will allow a trader using the program to more rapidly identify trade opportunities than a player without the application, and war/kill information would more rapidly provide an application user with intel than a non-application user.
CCP, you should really consider why you are allowing such easily exploited information through CREST when clearly the use of such data in a third party application would be a severe breach of the EULA.
Good man.
CCP need a serious kick up the backside on this one..
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CCP Tellus
C C P C C P Alliance
43
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Posted - 2016.02.24 01:59:21 -
[43] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:While I was originally planning on entering into this, I'm afraid I've decided against developing a third party application. A CCP dev blog posted today has explained that third party applications that can be used to provide an unfair advantage over players not using the application can result in bans. That dev blog was explicitly referring to programs that manipulate the EVE client itself into allowing you to see and do things that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do, in the client.
You are always free to use data gathered from CREST, XML API, SDE, and other services we offer, in a way you see fit. We are offering these services because we want you to use them and take advantage of the possibilities they offer.
We are continuously improving and adding new functionality to CREST, the XML API, and the SDE all the time. We love seeing new and exciting third-party applications! And we want to encourage you all to make more of them. We are holding the API challenge to help foster these desires.
You may be wondering, how we would we react should you discover a way to take advantage of information provided by our third-party services to achieve what we would consider "unfair". We have in the past changed game mechanics to cater around new usages of our APIs in order to level the playing field. We have simply removed endpoints from our APIs in the past as well. These are examples of peaceful resolutions to "unfair" use of our APIs.
We stand nothing to gain by excommunicating players.
Hope these resolve some of your concerns.
Thanks! |
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CCP Tellus
C C P C C P Alliance
43
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Posted - 2016.02.24 02:02:17 -
[44] - Quote
Adria Blue wrote:Probably too late to enter now even if it is allowed. It's never too late to make new wonderful applications. :)
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7242
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Posted - 2016.02.24 05:36:12 -
[45] - Quote
CCP Tellus wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:While I was originally planning on entering into this, I'm afraid I've decided against developing a third party application. A CCP dev blog posted today has explained that third party applications that can be used to provide an unfair advantage over players not using the application can result in bans. That dev blog was explicitly referring to programs that manipulate the EVE client itself into allowing you to see and do things that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do, in the client. You are always free to use data gathered from CREST, XML API, SDE, and other services we offer, in a way you see fit. We are offering these services because we want you to use them and take advantage of the possibilities they offer. We are continuously improving and adding new functionality to CREST, the XML API, and the SDE all the time. We love seeing new and exciting third-party applications! And we want to encourage you all to make more of them. We are holding the API challenge to help foster these desires. You may be wondering, how we would we react should you discover a way to take advantage of information provided by our third-party services to achieve what we would consider "unfair". We have in the past changed game mechanics to cater around new usages of our APIs in order to level the playing field. We have simply removed endpoints from our APIs in the past as well. These are examples of peaceful resolutions to "unfair" use of our APIs. We stand nothing to gain by excommunicating players. Hope these resolve some of your concerns. Thanks! Thanks. I appreciate the reply, however it doesn't really reosolve the concerns. Up until now, there's been clear guidance on the use of EVE-O preview, a program writing with input from a CCP dev that's always been allowed, and now seems to fall under the unfair part. Many applications grant an obvious unfair advantage even if they don't directly interact with the client UI, and the bit that worries me about using CREST and the API to build an application is this:
Quote:Please be aware of the fact that we do a lot of data analysis which grants us insight into behavior patterns and allows us to detect anomalies. In a lot of cases we do not need to know what you do on the client side because looking at the behavior in our very detailed event logs on the server side allows us to see if you have/had an unfair advantage over anybody else including the game environment. We donGÇÖt know all the tools out there and what they do exactly - and frankly we donGÇÖt care. If you get banned, then this is because the results of what you did and how you potentially gained from it manifested in our server-side logs. This is so broad that I 'd be concerned about getting caught up in it, and in all honesty I'd rather play it safe and simply not be involved in anything that might one day be considered an unfair advantage.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Fidelas Constans
590
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Posted - 2016.02.24 07:39:57 -
[46] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:CCP Tellus wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:While I was originally planning on entering into this, I'm afraid I've decided against developing a third party application. A CCP dev blog posted today has explained that third party applications that can be used to provide an unfair advantage over players not using the application can result in bans. That dev blog was explicitly referring to programs that manipulate the EVE client itself into allowing you to see and do things that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do, in the client. You are always free to use data gathered from CREST, XML API, SDE, and other services we offer, in a way you see fit. We are offering these services because we want you to use them and take advantage of the possibilities they offer. We are continuously improving and adding new functionality to CREST, the XML API, and the SDE all the time. We love seeing new and exciting third-party applications! And we want to encourage you all to make more of them. We are holding the API challenge to help foster these desires. You may be wondering, how we would we react should you discover a way to take advantage of information provided by our third-party services to achieve what we would consider "unfair". We have in the past changed game mechanics to cater around new usages of our APIs in order to level the playing field. We have simply removed endpoints from our APIs in the past as well. These are examples of peaceful resolutions to "unfair" use of our APIs. We stand nothing to gain by excommunicating players. Hope these resolve some of your concerns. Thanks! Thanks. I appreciate the reply, however it doesn't really reosolve the concerns. Up until now, there's been clear guidance on the use of EVE-O preview, a program writing with input from a CCP dev that's always been allowed, and now seems to fall under the unfair part. Many applications grant an obvious unfair advantage even if they don't directly interact with the client UI, and the bit that worries me about using CREST and the API to build an application is this: Quote:Please be aware of the fact that we do a lot of data analysis which grants us insight into behavior patterns and allows us to detect anomalies. In a lot of cases we do not need to know what you do on the client side because looking at the behavior in our very detailed event logs on the server side allows us to see if you have/had an unfair advantage over anybody else including the game environment. We donGÇÖt know all the tools out there and what they do exactly - and frankly we donGÇÖt care. If you get banned, then this is because the results of what you did and how you potentially gained from it manifested in our server-side logs. This is so broad that I 'd be concerned about getting caught up in it, and in all honesty I'd rather play it safe and simply not be involved in anything that might one day be considered an unfair advantage.
This is really simple for me: does your program modify client? If no then you have nothing to worry about. If yes then: does your program does anything other than displaying simple, non-client stuff like ts/mumble/ventrilo overlay? If no you are safe. If yes then you enter gray area.
Yes, eve preview became gray area right now, and would be great if ccp gave clear response but it was in the same grayish area before along with ts overlay. And now is innocent victim of otherwise great change for all players.
Dont try to spin it into more than it is, cause its not working.
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7243
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Posted - 2016.02.24 08:06:57 -
[47] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:This is really simple for me: does your program modify client? If no then you have nothing to worry about. If yes then: does your program does anything other than displaying simple, non-client stuff like ts/mumble/ventrilo overlay? If no you are safe. If yes then you enter gray area.
Yes, eve preview became gray area right now, and would be great if ccp gave clear response but it was in the same grayish area before along with ts overlay. And now is innocent victim of otherwise great change for all players.
Dont try to spin it into more than it is, cause its not working. But it's not that simple. That quite clearly states that they don;t look at what is happening on the client, only what the effect is. Take for example Elinor. It's am market program. You sit in the client and hit the export button on the market window. It picks up the text file that is exported reads the data copies a price into the clipboard which you then paste into your game window. No client interaction, but a much faster market speed. From CCPs point fo view this increases the rate at which you can enter orders, and since they aren't looking at your client they have no way to tell how you are doing it, only the end result.
At the end of the day, all third party programs are going to give people a benefit over players not using it. If I develop a market program which allows people to rapidly build up and modify market orders by aggregating CREST market data, how can I be sure that someone using it isn't going to be accused of using an unfair advantage and banned? I can't be, so I'd much rather not involve myself in developing, testing, using or supporting any third party applications until CCP are willing to ultimately clarify their stance. I'd urge all other developers to do the same as in the long run it will help us all if CCP are completely clear on what constitutes an unfair advantage from a third party application.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Koenig Yazria
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
5
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Posted - 2016.02.24 08:25:04 -
[48] - Quote
Same here.
I find it also hard to justify time developing something given the apparent unstable opinion CCP has.
What is legal now can be a bannable offense in 6 months.
Not worth developing if the conditions are these. |
Uppsy Daisy
Perkone Caldari State
643
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 09:03:55 -
[49] - Quote
It sounds to me like CCP have a load of server-side logs that they are using to monitor players in lots of different ways, and if any player breaches a pre-defined threshold this will be deemed as 'unfair advantage' and will result in a warning/ban.
For example, they might have a threshold on market orders entered or modified per minute, and if you breach that you must have an 'unfair advantage'.
I can see how if this is indeed their position, they would not want to reveal the counters or the thresholds for fear of exploitation by the bad guys. |
Ali 2k
Triton Heavy Industries
1
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Posted - 2016.02.29 20:14:24 -
[50] - Quote
@CCP_Foxfour I've been struggling to get to grips with the documentation regarding accessing authenticated character information - as far as documentation goes, it is pretty bad.
Are there any forum posts that discuss the implementation for authenticated CREST requests? As all my attempts are resulting in:
{"message": "Authentication needed, bad token", "key": "authNeeded", "exceptionType": "UnauthorizedError"}
I have worked out the authentication process and am succesfully getting Access tokens - but the docs do not explain clearly enough how to use the access token to GET and POST queries. |
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Ali 2k
Triton Heavy Industries
1
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Posted - 2016.02.29 21:15:52 -
[51] - Quote
I am attempting to access character waypoints with the waypoint endpoint - I receive the folowing response when attempting to POST the request.
Quote:{"message": "The route /characters/261499393/waypoints/ was not found", "key": "routeMissing", "exceptionType": "NotFoundError"}
Can you confirm this is the correct endpoint for waypoints? |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4257
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Posted - 2016.03.01 10:06:33 -
[52] - Quote
Ali 2k wrote:I am attempting to access character waypoints with the waypoint endpoint - I receive the folowing response when attempting to POST the request. Quote:{"message": "The route /characters/261499393/waypoints/ was not found", "key": "routeMissing", "exceptionType": "NotFoundError"} Can you confirm this is the correct endpoint for waypoints?
/characters/[characterID:characterIdType]/navigation/waypoints/
You can find a link to it in:
/characters/[characterID:characterIdType]/
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Calavoow2
Catastrophic Overview Failure
2
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Posted - 2016.03.01 13:50:53 -
[53] - Quote
Are we allowed to submit under a more restrictive open-source license than MIT? Specifically, a GPL-like license? |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4257
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Posted - 2016.03.01 14:11:01 -
[54] - Quote
Calavoow2 wrote:Are we allowed to submit under a more restrictive open-source license than MIT? Specifically, a GPL-like license?
MIT is required to submit to the contest.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Xiaou Bijoun
Fly By Knight Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2016.03.04 03:36:48 -
[55] - Quote
The endpoint "https://public-crest.eveonline.com" is not responding. Is the server expected to be back up soon? Nearing the deadline for entries.
Edit: Not a minute after I post the server starts responding again. |
Aes Sayyadina
Blackjack And Hookers.
0
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Posted - 2016.03.04 03:48:43 -
[56] - Quote
Quick question, I'm having some trouble with the refresh_tokens for SSO. I can authenticate properly and get back an access token and a refresh token, and I can properly query a character's location so I know I have the scopes working properly. However, once the access token expires I can't get https://login.eveonline.com/oauth/token to give me back another access token; I keep getting internal server errors (ex: Internal server error. Error ref: 25664038-db46-4757-a912-498e916db087).
I know that I have the Authorization header correct (because I can get the tokens in the first place!), and I am doing a post request with grant_type=refresh_token and refresh_token=[previously received refresh token]. Even set the content-type header as application/x-www-form-urlencoded. If I got anything more useful back from the server, I might be able to debug this myself, but I'm at a loss right now. |
Ryanis
Beyond Frontier Brave Collective
2
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Posted - 2016.03.04 14:24:07 -
[57] - Quote
@FoxFour: is there a way to check if our submission got recorded ? (like, if the browser crashed shortly after) |
Ali 2k
Triton Heavy Industries
1
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Posted - 2016.03.04 15:05:09 -
[58] - Quote
Looks like authenticated crest (and login.eveonline.com) are down? Any confirmations? |
Aes Sayyadina
Blackjack And Hookers.
0
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Posted - 2016.03.04 16:28:05 -
[59] - Quote
@Ryanis Thanks for the tip, but I am already POSTing against https://login.eveonline.com/oauth/token, so that shouldn't be the problem. The SSO server just continues to return an Internal Server Error each time I try to use my refresh token. |
Ali 2k
Triton Heavy Industries
1
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Posted - 2016.03.04 23:31:45 -
[60] - Quote
Well, half an hour to go and I can't test the final bits of of my app with the internal server errors from the API.. feeling a little salty! |
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