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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
1120
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Posted - 2016.03.09 22:26:30 -
[571] - Quote
I'm love how all the nullies love the JC tax idea, while hisec/lowsec players don't. Guess who will benefit the most from this.
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Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2736
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Posted - 2016.03.09 22:27:25 -
[572] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Zappity wrote:I still strongly object to the jump clone fee. I'm thinking about younger players wanting to dip a toe into PvP.
Aside from encouraging citadel use, what goal is this designed to result in? Less jump clone usage? Why? You are throwing the baby out with the bath water. How much ISK worth of implant does your "young player" has in his head that is at risk of being blownup causing him a major loss but would warrant creating a jump clone (5 million ) + jumping out of it (5M or new 1M proposal) for a grand total of 6 or 10 million ISK. Zero. He is jumping to a clean clone from a training clone.
Alternatively, just delete attribute clones.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1698
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Posted - 2016.03.09 22:27:57 -
[573] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:I'm love how all the nullies love the JC tax idea, while hisec/lowsec players don't. Guess who will benefit the most from this.
i have no issue with it and i dont live in null
Citadel worm hole tax
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Rob Kaichin
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
35
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Posted - 2016.03.09 22:30:25 -
[574] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:I'm love how all the nullies love the JC tax idea, while hisec/lowsec players don't. Guess who will benefit the most from this.
i have no issue with it and i dont live in null
Where do you live?
I thought you were a trollish Forum Alt tbh. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2257
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Posted - 2016.03.09 22:35:18 -
[575] - Quote
I don't care about the new PvP tax, I can afford it, but this obscene trading fee increase will significantly reduce trade volume and liquidity of the markets in highsec. This is the effect you can observe in RL when attempts are made to tax transactions. It will not be different in New Eden, and it's bad.
I still don't understand why you want to do that, instead of first observing what happens after the introduction of Citadels ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1698
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Posted - 2016.03.09 22:37:35 -
[576] - Quote
Rob Kaichin wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:I'm love how all the nullies love the JC tax idea, while hisec/lowsec players don't. Guess who will benefit the most from this.
i have no issue with it and i dont live in null Where do you live? I thought you were a trollish Forum Alt tbh.
HS and WH
Citadel worm hole tax
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
1120
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Posted - 2016.03.09 22:39:30 -
[577] - Quote
If the idea is to get people to use Citadel Clone Vats, then putting a tax on NPC JCs is not the answer. The best way to get people to use the Citadel clone vats would be to give the Citadels the ability to reduce the JC timer.
If you really want an isk sink, make it so you can pay a fee to reduce the jump clone cooldown timer. |
Rob Kaichin
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
35
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Posted - 2016.03.09 22:48:17 -
[578] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:The best way to get people to use the Citadel clone vats would be to give the Citadels the ability to reduce the JC timer.
Great, another sideways pull factor for Citadels which doesn't rely on nerfing NPC stations. Add that to mine and now we've got 3 ideas.
We're not even game designers!!!
CCP, this is the way we'd like to see you go, can you appreciate that? |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17505
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Posted - 2016.03.09 22:49:28 -
[579] - Quote
Looking at all of these comments it seems the tax is going to have the desired effect. |
Excellion
Nexus Mercator
7
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Posted - 2016.03.09 22:49:52 -
[580] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: there is very little in eve that wont be more advantages to groups with more numbers that. but this change does not "prioritize" them. the taxes will affect everyone and yes those who group together to take advantage of a new niche in eve will be rewarded while those who just sit a whine will probably be mildly inconvenienced
You are right that the changes apply to everyone, but they will certainly not affect everyone on the same level. If the station sales taxes were increased to 50% small groups and solo players in highsec would have few effective means to evade or mitigate this change. On the other hand nullsec alliances can just produce whatever they need and be completely unaffected.
We can also be fairly sure that if trade does indeed shift to citadels we will have a 70 trillion pinata floating around in highsec, there to be smashed apart by anyone who cares and can muster enough force. This will again be to the advantage of larger groups; Any small group setting up a (rather) profitable trading station will likely face the same response as a 10 man group holding a T64 moon in null. I suspect that for most alliances this will be a new way to generate isk. Or barring that, a new excuse to shoot things in high sec with the fun paying for itself.
Note that this is all just speculation and things may turn out quite differently. And i also won't claim no one will like these changes or that they cannot be fun. But let us at least call a spade a spade and state that the citadel changes to highsec were not designed with the benefit of ye-average local highsec wildlife in mind.
baltec1 wrote:Looking at all of these comments it seems the tax is going to have the desired effect. Got to admit, i had a good grin at that line. I wonder what the ratio of highsec / lowsec plex purchasers is; If it is primarily highsec the lowered supply may be quite lucrative (If things turn out according to the worst-case scenario's). |
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Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2736
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Posted - 2016.03.09 22:51:32 -
[581] - Quote
I really like the market tax idea btw. I think it should be a bit higher tbh.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
456
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Posted - 2016.03.09 22:55:11 -
[582] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Looking at all of these comments it seems the tax is going to have the desired effect. For sure. With a tax this high you can say goodbye to Jita 4-4. NPC trading just won't be competitive with the NPC taking an almost 5% cut of every trade order. Once a solid alliance gets a hub setup they can trade there with taxes as low as 1.25%.
I think citadels should have an advantage but I think this is too much. NPC stations shouldn't become completely unviable.
(also if said alliance can set taxes based upon specific groups then they can effectively lock down an entire regional market - this is hypothetical at the moment although would be the logical next step)
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Rob Kaichin
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
35
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Posted - 2016.03.09 22:59:47 -
[583] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Looking at all of these comments it seems the tax is going to have the desired effect.
Which is what? |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2736
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Posted - 2016.03.09 23:05:29 -
[584] - Quote
Rob Kaichin wrote:baltec1 wrote:Looking at all of these comments it seems the tax is going to have the desired effect. Which is what? Push people towards trading in citadels instead of NPC stations. Good stuff.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
60
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Posted - 2016.03.09 23:10:59 -
[585] - Quote
Have followed the thread closely - and believe I do understand the feelings expressed.
I thought the JC cost too high - and think that has now been addressed.
I too will feel the Tax increases - but, in the end, if 'safety' is wanted then it has to be paid for. Will this be a shock, yes, but perhaps a good one.
Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
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Niko Zino
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2016.03.09 23:16:52 -
[586] - Quote
As an aside, I'm flabbergasted that most of the people advocating against the change tend to say variations on the "it doesn't affect me much personnally, but here's a list of people and mechanics it will upset", while most people in favor of the change tend to say "it doesn't affect me much so it can't be that bad". I have yet to see someone pointing at anything that can be construed as positive for the game as a whole. I just can't see that being a good sign.
As for the jump clone tax, as many people said, it's not as much an amount issue as it is a psychological one. Yes, of course, CAS will have a fund ro pay for the newbros' vacation time in null. But a fund has to be managed and policed. More work, for the same amount of positive results on the NPE. We'll manage, we have managed to stay in business for 8 years, resisting every and all restrictions, taxes, and quite frankly scorn, to make sure the is someone willing to take a 1min old player and show them they don't have only being a miner or joining a big corporation as their choices. Upholding the idea of a sandbox game where choices are your own, and the right one isn't dependant on other people's opinions.
I still think imposing any kind of barrier for people who, old or new, don't know that they can try whatever they want, whenever they want, if only for a day, is a mistake, in the long run. JC cooldown reduction for citadel bays seems much more viable, as it shortens the time between wanting something and actually trying that something, win or loose. Fluidifying the game, rather than stratifying it. Some other ideas like implant insurance etc are also really good ideas, as they are clear positives for people who will know how to take advantage of them, rather than punishing the players who don't know about the mechanics.
CAS, the NPC Corp that Does StuffGäó
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2660
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Posted - 2016.03.09 23:20:34 -
[587] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:If the idea is to get people to use Citadel Clone Vats, then putting a tax on NPC JCs is not the answer. The best way to get people to use the Citadel clone vats would be to give the Citadels the ability to reduce the JC timer.
If you really want an isk sink, make it so you can pay a fee to reduce the jump clone cooldown timer.
That's just a raw power projection buff.... |
Niko Zino
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2016.03.09 23:24:31 -
[588] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:If the idea is to get people to use Citadel Clone Vats, then putting a tax on NPC JCs is not the answer. The best way to get people to use the Citadel clone vats would be to give the Citadels the ability to reduce the JC timer.
If you really want an isk sink, make it so you can pay a fee to reduce the jump clone cooldown timer. That's just a raw power projection buff....
Only if you have citadels at both ends of your projection. Which could be hard to do in hostile space, expensive to maintain if it's a wide network, etc etc etc
CAS, the NPC Corp that Does StuffGäó
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2660
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Posted - 2016.03.09 23:25:39 -
[589] - Quote
Niko Zino wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:If the idea is to get people to use Citadel Clone Vats, then putting a tax on NPC JCs is not the answer. The best way to get people to use the Citadel clone vats would be to give the Citadels the ability to reduce the JC timer.
If you really want an isk sink, make it so you can pay a fee to reduce the jump clone cooldown timer. That's just a raw power projection buff.... Only if you have citadels at both ends of your projection. Which could be hard to do in hostile space, expensive to maintain if it's a wide network, etc etc etc
What if I hold SOV over a few Region and can defend this SOV by using a network of rapid jump clone? |
Niko Zino
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2016.03.09 23:30:19 -
[590] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: What if I hold SOV over a few Region and can defend this SOV by using a network of rapid jump clone?
How is that different from using jump bridges? If you have the ISK and the organizational wizardry, good for you! You could also have alts stationed everywhere, too. With the skill injectors, if only a matter of having deep pockets (just like citadels) after all...
CAS, the NPC Corp that Does StuffGäó
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Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
6
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Posted - 2016.03.09 23:31:10 -
[591] - Quote
Zappity wrote:I really like the market tax idea btw. I think it should be a bit higher tbh.
You like it rough, don't you. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2660
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Posted - 2016.03.09 23:32:07 -
[592] - Quote
Niko Zino wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote: What if I hold SOV over a few Region and can defend this SOV by using a network of rapid jump clone?
How is that different from using jump bridges? If you have the ISK and the organizational wizardry, good for you! You could also have alts stationed everywhere, too. With the skill injectors, if only a matter of having deep pockets (just like citadels) after all...
It's super different because jump bridge can only give you 5 LY per jump and you get fatigue every jump and have to wait before you continue. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1698
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Posted - 2016.03.09 23:33:49 -
[593] - Quote
Excellion wrote: On the other hand nullsec alliances can just produce whatever they need and be completely unaffected.
lol wut do you have any idea how much importing goes on from jita to nul
Citadel worm hole tax
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Circumstantial Evidence
263
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Posted - 2016.03.09 23:39:14 -
[594] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium on 2016-02-11 wrote:...we're probably going to increase market NPC taxes to make Citadel more attractive at some point. I wish this was planned for "some point" after Citadels were released, they have many interesting carrots promoting their use, I'd like to see time allowed to work out issues and let you evaluate usage for at least a month following the Citadels expansion, before applying these sticks. |
Niko Zino
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2016.03.09 23:44:41 -
[595] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:It's super different because jump bridge can only give you 5 LY per jump and you get fatigue every jump and have to wait before you continue.
Yes yes, of course, I wasn't trying to be cute, just outline the fact that, like most organizational issues both IRL and in Eve, you can hide most flaws under the money carpet. It's when you don't have the carpetbombing solution that finding creative solutions to any given problem is both fun and rewarding. Kinda like when you rekt an officer fit nightmare with a handful of t1 ships, or when you find a way to manufacture your goods on the cheap to undercut the market barons. THAT is the gameplay I'd like to promote, but I realize I may be in the minority.
CAS, the NPC Corp that Does StuffGäó
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2660
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Posted - 2016.03.09 23:50:22 -
[596] - Quote
Niko Zino wrote:[quote=Frostys Virpio]
Now take the smaller group that goes after your sov. They can't afford any of these solutions, not realistically, on top of their expected ship losses. So they won't even try. Less fights, market or pvp wise. Congratulations to the top dogs, they win eve and can rat all day, since there is no opposition. Is that a desirable outcome?
So you won't be able to contest SOV because you have to pay up to 6 mill per jump cone? That is the reason why you would stop going in fleet taking on large SOV owner. For a 6 mill jump clone fee per pilot? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1698
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Posted - 2016.03.09 23:57:28 -
[597] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Niko Zino wrote:[quote=Frostys Virpio]
Now take the smaller group that goes after your sov. They can't afford any of these solutions, not realistically, on top of their expected ship losses. So they won't even try. Less fights, market or pvp wise. Congratulations to the top dogs, they win eve and can rat all day, since there is no opposition. Is that a desirable outcome?
So you won't be able to contest SOV because you have to pay up to 6 mill per jump cone? That is the reason why you would stop going in fleet taking on large SOV owner. For a 6 mill jump clone fee per pilot? Look its... its just so much it would take me almost 1/2 a site to make that much
Citadel worm hole tax
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Niko Zino
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2016.03.10 00:01:29 -
[598] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:So you won't be able to contest SOV because you have to pay up to 6 mill per jump cone? That is the reason why you would stop going in fleet taking on large SOV owner. For a 6 mill jump clone fee per pilot?
No, SOV can't be held by CAS anyways ;)
Stupid repartee aside, since most sov stuff looks from the outside to be hugely affected by the number of pilots you can field, you are looking at a choice between risking to deploy a citadel that costs 7B (I assume the deployment procedure is dangerous, in hostile space, but I may be wrong), or paying X mil for all of your pilots who will be stuck there, and who, if they want to rat for a couple of days, will resent the fact that it costs them money to do something else in the quiet times between timers / stratops.
Again, not a monetary issue if you have deep pockets or the group you belong to has deep pockets, but a psychological dampener. Maybe not a show stopper, for sure. Maybe it won't change a goddamn thing for the big sov players, for all I know (and it's little).
But if I try to convince a miner to come and try pew pewing with me and my merry band of rascals, to go out and fight your pilots like we did last week end, and it costs him on top of not being able to earn a living for 20+ hours? where today I've got about a chance in 2 to convince him, with that, I'll have 1 in 4. If he makes less of a living because of taxes, it drops even more. Less targets for you, if nothing else.
CAS, the NPC Corp that Does StuffGäó
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Sgt Ocker
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
846
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Posted - 2016.03.10 00:17:37 -
[599] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Niko Zino wrote:[quote=Frostys Virpio]
Now take the smaller group that goes after your sov. They can't afford any of these solutions, not realistically, on top of their expected ship losses. So they won't even try. Less fights, market or pvp wise. Congratulations to the top dogs, they win eve and can rat all day, since there is no opposition. Is that a desirable outcome?
So you won't be able to contest SOV because you have to pay up to 6 mill per jump cone? That is the reason why you would stop going in fleet taking on large SOV owner. For a 6 mill jump clone fee per pilot? Has been reduced to 900K according to the source
Source
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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motie one
Secret Passage
70
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Posted - 2016.03.10 00:24:36 -
[600] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:CCP Ytterbium on 2016-02-11 wrote:...we're probably going to increase market NPC taxes to make Citadel more attractive at some point. I wish this was planned for "some point" after Citadels were released, they have many interesting carrots promoting their use, I'd like to see time allowed to work out issues and let you evaluate usage for at least a month following the Citadels expansion, before applying these sticks. It really does not matter, If one decides on punishment , as a way to enforce acceptable behaviour, the punishment needs to be continuously increased until the desired behaviour is achieved, or you kill the child, whatever.....
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