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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Beta Vixen
United Conflict Space Command The Volition Cult
1
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Posted - 2016.03.03 19:13:03 -
[121] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Market: markets currently have two taxes, transaction's tax, applied for sold items, and broker's fee for non immediate orders, which are set at 1.5% and 1% respectively. To create an environment more competitive for Citadels, we plan on increasing the transaction tax to 2.5% and the broker's fee to 5-6%. Players trading in citadels will still receive the transaction tax, but the broker's fee will be at the complete discretion of the owner. To avoid confusion for the owner, the broker relations skill will not affect player set broker's fee in Citadels.
The effect of taxes on markets is well documented in the RL economic literature -- arbitrary taxes which do not reflect underlying economic costs always have the effect of making markets LESS efficient to the detriment of participants.
What we should expect with this change is a significant widening of the spreads between buy and sell prices -- and a lot fewer player merchants moving goods from location A to location B to better serve the market in B.
I observe that this will have the likely effect of reducing availability of goods everywhere but the market hubs -- and quite possibly even in those hubs which are outside Jita.
Now, maybe your modeling of the flood of isk existing within EVE tells you that a large isk sink is needed -- and that a consumption tax [which is approximately what this is] is the way to bring this about. In the absence of of some underlying cost which the Citadel owner needs to recover [monthly operating cost to have a market at all??] I'd think the way to balance the excess isk problem is to reduce Concord bounties paid for ratting [esp in high sec] -- simply to put less isk into the game, rather than find a way to take isk out of the game.
--older than dirt. older than EVE, too. |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
447
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Posted - 2016.03.03 19:14:39 -
[122] - Quote
How about this:
Brokers fee = modified by the security status of the system
The top brokers which charge the highest fees operate in the most developed secure locations (Jita) wheras low end brokers (who charge the least) have to start in some back end system at the edge of nowhere.
This can then be further modified by the broker relations skill (your skill at negotiating with brokers)
Transaction tax = modified by the owner of the station
This could be set by the owner of the citadel as an arbitrary tax at any rate they wish.
In the case of NPC stations it could be based upon your Accounting skill and faction/corporation standing with the owner of the station.
This would make a lot more sense.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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MachineOfLovingGrace
The Bastards The Bastards.
15
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Posted - 2016.03.03 19:18:15 -
[123] - Quote
The more I think about the tax changes, the less I like their direction. It moves the game towards more control in less hands, like in the real world. And the consequences in the real words are pretty bad for the non-elite.
Currently I can let the big boys play in null and do my own thing in high/low. I'd really really hate to be forced into space politics and big block shenanigans. Please think about why you want to do this, do you just want eve to be a more realistic, evil, grittier place, or do you really think this will improve gamplay as a whole? Just because a feature is cool and interesting and more sandboxy doesn't make it good for the game. |
Denidil
Gallente Rebels Inc. Villore Accords
652
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Posted - 2016.03.03 19:19:33 -
[124] - Quote
Jump clone change =
NO NO NO NO NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN
NO NO NO NO NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN
NO NO NO NO NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN
NO NO NO NO NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN
NO NO NO NO NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN
NO NO NO NO NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN
NO NO NO NO NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN
NO NO NO NO NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN
Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
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Beta Maoye
94
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Posted - 2016.03.03 19:23:27 -
[125] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
- Market: markets currently have two taxes, transaction's tax, applied for sold items, and broker's fee for non immediate orders, which are set at 1.5% and 1% respectively. To create an environment more competitive for Citadels, we plan on increasing the transaction tax to 2.5% and the broker's fee to 5-6%. Players trading in citadels will still receive the transaction tax, but the broker's fee will be at the complete discretion of the owner. To avoid confusion for the owner, the broker relations skill will not affect player set broker's fee in Citadels.
- Contracts: while Contracts will not be available in Citadels for the first release, the transaction's tax and borker's fee will also go up by the same amount than markets as mentioned above.
Don't you think 4.5% broker fee (6% with 25% discount from broker relation in NPC station) for each transaction in Citadel is too fat for the Citadel owners(i.e. only big alliances that are strong enough to protect it)?
If daily volume of one single market hub, for example, jita, is 300 billion, daily income of 4.5% broker fee will be 13.5 billion. And there are more than one market hub in the game. The broker fee market is huge. Is this too big a gift?
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Northern Army
2727
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Posted - 2016.03.03 19:24:38 -
[126] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Jump Clones: [...]We are planning to increase that amount to 5m ISK to install a jump clone in NPC stations. That price will also be payable anytime a clone is left behind in a NPC station - so, if you jump clone away from a NPC station from previously established jump clones you will still pay that price. Market: markets currently have two taxes, transaction's tax, applied for sold items, and broker's fee for non immediate orders, which are set at 1.5% and 1% respectively. To create an environment more competitive for Citadels, we plan on increasing the transaction tax to 2.5% and the broker's fee to 5-6%. Players trading in citadels will still receive the transaction tax, but the broker's fee will be at the complete discretion of the owner. To avoid confusion for the owner, the broker relations skill will not affect player set broker's fee in Citadels.
I read this as: Hey, I have a great idea! Let's make life terrible for any player that chooses not to use a citadel.
Citadels will NEVER be market hubs in hisec. Why? Imagine if someone could un-anchor Jita. Trillions upon trillions of isk, lost in movement costs alone.
Let's punish players for using the old tried-and-true feature so that they use our new and poorly thought out feature instead. Remember how you guys introduced Teams, but then removed them?
Here's a golden rule for you: If you need to punish players to get them to use a new feature, maybe you need to re-think that new feature. |
Taritura
Achozen Dueces TecH
7
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Posted - 2016.03.03 19:36:05 -
[127] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:...
Market: markets currently have two taxes, transaction's tax, applied for sold items, and broker's fee for non immediate orders, which are set at 1.5% and 1% respectively. To create an environment more competitive for Citadels, we plan on increasing the transaction tax to 2.5% and the broker's fee to 5-6%. Players trading in citadels will still receive the transaction tax, but the broker's fee will be at the complete discretion of the owner. To avoid confusion for the owner, the broker relations skill will not affect player set broker's fee in Citadels.
Please remember those are still work in progress changes (especially the market broker's fee tax amount), so please use constructive feedback in your replies.
Bravo that's how to destroy a game. First we have to pay 10% for producing an item. And now another 8% to sell s...... wee 18% tax..... are you f.. stupid ???? or is it intentional to kill all Hs producing/market.
It's not a f... sandbox when you force people to null sec..... |
Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
378
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Posted - 2016.03.03 19:36:16 -
[128] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Jump Clones: [...]We are planning to increase that amount to 5m ISK to install a jump clone in NPC stations. That price will also be payable anytime a clone is left behind in a NPC station - so, if you jump clone away from a NPC station from previously established jump clones you will still pay that price. Market: markets currently have two taxes, transaction's tax, applied for sold items, and broker's fee for non immediate orders, which are set at 1.5% and 1% respectively. To create an environment more competitive for Citadels, we plan on increasing the transaction tax to 2.5% and the broker's fee to 5-6%. Players trading in citadels will still receive the transaction tax, but the broker's fee will be at the complete discretion of the owner. To avoid confusion for the owner, the broker relations skill will not affect player set broker's fee in Citadels.
I read this as: Hey, I have a great idea! Let's make life terrible for any player that chooses not to use a citadel.Citadels will NEVER be market hubs in hisec. Why? Imagine if someone could un-anchor Jita. Trillions upon trillions of isk, lost in movement costs alone. Let's punish players for using the old tried-and-true feature so that they use our new and poorly thought out feature instead. Remember how you guys introduced Teams, but then removed them? Here's a golden rule for you: If you need to punish players to get them to use a new feature, maybe you need to re-think that new feature.
Or, it could be that NPC stations are so overpowered in these areas that they have to be disincentivised in order to loosen the stranglehold that they have on Citadel related features. Sadly, if you think the cries of outrage are loudest for a few % points of taxes, imagine if CCP actually tried to eliminate NPC stations other than in a few key areas to allow us to have a fully player driven market/economy. People aren't ready for that. These are, I believe, the first steps.
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Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
910
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Posted - 2016.03.03 19:38:14 -
[129] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Here's a golden rule for you: If you need to punish players to get them to use a new feature, maybe you need to re-think that new feature.
Let this golden rule be enshrined somewhere, that it may be visible and shine it's light on the imaginations of the developers no matter where they be.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
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Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
910
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Posted - 2016.03.03 19:42:40 -
[130] - Quote
Obil Que wrote:Or, it could be that NPC stations are so overpowered in these areas that they have to be disincentivised in order to loosen the stranglehold that they have on Citadel related features. Sadly, if you think the cries of outrage are loudest for a few % points of taxes, imagine if CCP actually tried to eliminate NPC stations other than in a few key areas to allow us to have a fully player driven market/economy. People aren't ready for that. These are, I believe, the first steps.
If anything, null needs more npc stations. They make sov into heatlhy content rich areas, rather than heavily monopolized areas which are logistically impossible for antagonists. Not to mention Phoebe changes make actually moving or invading far out areas that have no NPC station for 15 or more LY basically impossible. No system in k-space should be more than 8 ly from an NPC station. period. One of the big problems in the game isn't too many NPC stations, it is the lack of them that effectively hand monopolies and total safety to a few players, and that is very un-EvE like in my appraisal.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
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Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
277
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Posted - 2016.03.03 19:43:08 -
[131] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Jump Clones: current price for installing jump clones in NPC stations is around 100,000 ISK. We are planning to increase that amount to 5m ISK to install a jump clone in NPC stations. That price will also be payable anytime a clone is left behind in a NPC station - so, if you jump clone away from a NPC station from previously established jump clones you will still pay that price. Jump Clones installed in Citadels will not have any NPC taxes, but the owner can charge his own pricing for the service. We also want to remove the maximum limit of jump clones for Citadels: like Citadel offices, your alliance, corporation or public customers will never be denied usage of this service if you grant them access in the first place.
5 million isk every time you *use* a jump clone at an NPC station? That's 10 million if you happen to be jumping from one NPC station to another? When you already have the cost of a 24 hour timer?
Clearly you intend to force players into player corps/alliances and force them to use player owned structures for basic services.
Clearly you have not looked at the "unintended consequences." I'll be very narrow in my take on this:
This will make nullsec PVP even more the exclusive preserve of the big blue doughnut crowd. May as well put up a big, bright "Newbies not welcome" sign. It will probably also leave NPC null basically a deserted wasteland, as if it isn't non-viable enough already.
Maybe incentives work better than arbitrary punishments, no?
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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motie one
Secret Passage
50
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Posted - 2016.03.03 19:43:21 -
[132] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Here's a golden rule for you: If you need to punish players to get them to use a new feature, maybe you need to re-think that new feature. Let this golden rule be enshrined somewhere, that it may be visible and shine it's light on the imaginations of the developers no matter where they be.
Why isn't this on your CSM thread? This alone would have got you on my ballot! |
Oddsodz
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
172
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Posted - 2016.03.03 19:51:11 -
[133] - Quote
5m isk to jump to one of my "Clone Heads" is a bit of a stinker. Not the end of the world, but still a stinker. Now if you was to say make it 10m but there was no time limit to switch from one clone to the next. Then I would be very happy.
I myself don't care for having jump clones all over the place (but that is how there right now). But what I would love is for me to be able to say "hey I am going to fly my super fast Fed navy comet today, I think I would be a good idea to have my snake implants in my head". I then go out and have me some Pew Pew. Come home and say, "Humm I fancy me some Enyo fun, Maybe it's time to fly with some Slave implants". But I can't do that due to time limit on clone jumping. Sure we have all loved with that for a long time. But I really do think it would a deal winner for Citadels to have that "Bonus" selling point. Wormhole implant users will love you for ever and ever. Right now they can't even choose in a timely manner at all. They get no real chance to switch to what is needed if the invading force comes a knocking. Citadels would give them that if there was no time limit.
Anyway. That's my feedback
Hope it helps |
Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
2162
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 20:04:29 -
[134] - Quote
Querns wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Why isn't the security status of a system being considered?
For the transaction taxes, it should be lower in low sec and non existent in wormholes and null sec. If this was the case, everyone who wanted to sell stuff in 0.0 would just set up a market in NPC 0.0, where the taxes were low-to-zero and there was no chance of disruption via explosion or ACL lockout. NPC stations in 0.0/lowsec need these fees too.
This is for citadels not stations. Low/zero tax should be one of the major incentives to choosing to setup in a citadel as opposed to a station.
Citadels in NPC null are also distructable and they would have a tax because it is not true null sec.
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2716
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 20:05:21 -
[135] - Quote
I think the jump clone cost is too high (thinking starter PvP in lowsec).
The market fees are not high enough. I'd prefer more like 10%, otherwise the prices could just step up to compensate.
Contracts REALLY need to work fir citadels before we will see any significant market shift. Maybe wait until this is ready before changing the broker fee.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Charles Surge
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2016.03.03 20:07:31 -
[136] - Quote
5M to JC is too high.
It is an incentive not to JC, and thus +1 incentive not to play the game. |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2716
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 20:08:35 -
[137] - Quote
Can you please clarify asset safety mechanics?
1. If a large citadel is destroyed in a highsec system with an NPC station does it still cost 10% to recover inventory? Or is transfer to an NPC station in the same system free?
2. If a large citadel is destroyed can you recover assets for no fee by building a medium in the same system? Or is it size-specific?
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2716
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 20:09:45 -
[138] - Quote
Charles Surge wrote:5M to JC is too high.
It is an incentive not to JC, and thus +1 incentive not to play the game. Agreed. This is a tax on PvP whereas the other fees are a tax on profitable activities. Profit taxes are good, PvP tax is bad.
I think that the ability to stack jump clones in the same structure (vs just one now) is adequate incentive. The current system is a real pain.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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aldhura
Bartledannians Nite Owls
35
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Posted - 2016.03.03 20:13:31 -
[139] - Quote
Can citadels be set for alliance use ?
Bartledannians Corporation is recruiting
Nite Owls Alliance is recruiting
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1643
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Posted - 2016.03.03 20:14:01 -
[140] - Quote
Will I still be able to allow people to do reprocessing while not letting them use compression?
Also can we have it so you can only see the market of a citadel if you can use it otherwise I can see it being frustrating for people trying to by something only to just see a huge list of items you can't get to. (I see this being particularly hard on new players) also in wh it would be nice not to be advertising what's in your giant loot pinata
Citadel worm hole tax
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1643
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Posted - 2016.03.03 20:16:02 -
[141] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Querns wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Why isn't the security status of a system being considered?
For the transaction taxes, it should be lower in low sec and non existent in wormholes and null sec. If this was the case, everyone who wanted to sell stuff in 0.0 would just set up a market in NPC 0.0, where the taxes were low-to-zero and there was no chance of disruption via explosion or ACL lockout. NPC stations in 0.0/lowsec need these fees too. This is for citadels not stations. Low/zero tax should be one of the major incentives to choosing to setup in a citadel as opposed to a station. Citadels in NPC null are also distructable and they would have a tax because it is not true null sec.
As well security status is taken into consideration when you fit a market rig to a citadel
Citadel worm hole tax
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2988
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Posted - 2016.03.03 20:19:36 -
[142] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Jump Clones: [...]We are planning to increase that amount to 5m ISK to install a jump clone in NPC stations. That price will also be payable anytime a clone is left behind in a NPC station - so, if you jump clone away from a NPC station from previously established jump clones you will still pay that price. Market: markets currently have two taxes, transaction's tax, applied for sold items, and broker's fee for non immediate orders, which are set at 1.5% and 1% respectively. To create an environment more competitive for Citadels, we plan on increasing the transaction tax to 2.5% and the broker's fee to 5-6%. Players trading in citadels will still receive the transaction tax, but the broker's fee will be at the complete discretion of the owner. To avoid confusion for the owner, the broker relations skill will not affect player set broker's fee in Citadels.
I read this as: Hey, I have a great idea! Let's make life terrible for any player that chooses not to use a citadel.Citadels will NEVER be market hubs in hisec. Why? Imagine if someone could un-anchor Jita. Trillions upon trillions of isk, lost in movement costs alone. Let's punish players for using the old tried-and-true feature so that they use our new and poorly thought out feature instead. Remember how you guys introduced Teams, but then removed them? Here's a golden rule for you: If you need to punish players to get them to use a new feature, maybe you need to re-think that new feature. Would you, by extension, want to roll back the entire Crius expansion? Seems like your example was one of the few non-punitive features to come out of that. |
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
59
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Posted - 2016.03.03 20:19:55 -
[143] - Quote
Altrue wrote:Reprocessing tax in isk in NPC stations means more minerals on the market. Interesting.
No it doesn't - the minerals go to the owner - they don't disappear....
Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
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TOJICTOTA
True Power Team
60
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Posted - 2016.03.03 20:22:56 -
[144] - Quote
Market: Iif you want to change transaction tax to 2.5% and the broker's fee to 5-6% apply this changes to the order DURATION = 3 months. but if you set order for 1 day it would be the same as now (1.5% and 1%). in enother words add variable taxes repending on order duration
Contracts: add the same - tax depending on contract duration
Jump Clones: chnge it to 1m, not 5m. also add "force clone jump" "force clone jump"-this jump can be made after 2-3 hours after normal clone jump but you will pay for this jump 10mil. Those who wants to use it - 10mil not a price. |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2717
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Posted - 2016.03.03 20:22:57 -
[145] - Quote
Why not do the jump clone fee if you want to swap before your cool down has expired? Fee for normal swaps is bad.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1643
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Posted - 2016.03.03 20:28:50 -
[146] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:Altrue wrote:Reprocessing tax in isk in NPC stations means more minerals on the market. Interesting. No it doesn't - the minerals go to the owner - they don't disappear....
Not when done in NPC stations where a good chunk is done
Citadel worm hole tax
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Anthar Thebess
1469
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Posted - 2016.03.03 20:38:57 -
[147] - Quote
Good more isk sinks. Consider moving some of the items from drops to LP stores. Each item that drop from escalation/faction spawn don't change nothing, but if the same item will come from LP store it will remove ISK in the process.
Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists
Show your support to The Cause!
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Xumayar
Nonagessis Inc.
0
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Posted - 2016.03.03 20:39:30 -
[148] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Jump Clones: current price for installing jump clones in NPC stations is around 100,000 ISK. We are planning to increase that amount to 5m ISK to install a jump clone in NPC stations. That price will also be payable anytime a clone is left behind in a NPC station - so, if you jump clone away from a NPC station from previously established jump clones you will still pay that price. Jump Clones installed in Citadels will not have any NPC taxes, but the owner can charge his own pricing for the service. We also want to remove the maximum limit of jump clones for Citadels: like Citadel offices, your alliance, corporation or public customers will never be denied usage of this service if you grant them access in the first place.
Increasing the cost to installing jump clones is no problem; but there are certain issues to be had with jumping fees. The main issue is many players have jump clones not because they want to get from one side of New Eden to the other quickly (I am aware many people use it for that reason also) but because they need to swtich between expensive implant clones for better learning and cheaper empty clones that they can take into low and nullsec with little worry.
Charging 5 million per jump will hurt newer and casual players and will further lower the populations of low and NPC nullsec.
Personally I wouldn't have a problem with jumping fees if clone swapping at the same station is free but a jumping fee is charged for jumping to the other side of New Eden. Example:
I am currently docked in Amarr with a clone with learning implants. I have an inactive clone without implants in the same station. I have an inactive clone in Jita (Doesn't matter if it has implants ort not).
If I want to swap clones in Amarr I should not have to pay a fee; or at least it should be a relatively cheap fee AT MOST it should be 100,000 isk. But if I want to clone jump to my clone in Jita I should pay a fee; 1-5 million isk would be acceptable. |
windows vista
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2016.03.03 20:50:56 -
[149] - Quote
Contracts: while Contracts will not be available in Citadels for the first release,
i think that thist is more important what about my contracts for doctrine ships? |
Dave Stark
7885
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 20:52:44 -
[150] - Quote
windows vista wrote:Contracts: while Contracts will not be available in Citadels for the first release,
i think that thist is more important what about my contracts for doctrine ships?
open ship fitting from corp fittings. 'buy all' inside the citadel where your glorious logistics bros have seeded the market. |
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