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Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2016.03.16 10:36:59 -
[1] - Quote
Me again!! (i'm so sorry)
I might think about EvE when I'm in bed waiting to go to sleep and think of things that could help me ingame.........i'm cool.....honest!!
Is EvE's economy a living organism like the US or UK economy?
The reason I ask is because a few people have been commenting on the low returns from date and relic sites recently from what they used to be 2 months ago. I don't know what is good and bad prices.
Do prices fluctuate for periods of time? I don't want to have to change how I make isk with the effort I've put into exploration so far.
Kind regards, Teium |
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
11
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Posted - 2016.03.16 10:52:40 -
[2] - Quote
Yes, prices do change. The entire economy is a free market, based off supply and demand.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2016.03.16 11:01:04 -
[3] - Quote
Do actual players by the stuff I hack? I just go to Jita and sell it all. Thought it was just like selling to an NPC in other games |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
864
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Posted - 2016.03.16 11:11:38 -
[4] - Quote
There used to be some NPC buy orders in trade goods, but I don't know if there are anymore. Almost everything in the market is made by players and moved by players.
Skill books are one of the last things still bought from NPCs.
If you are curious, you can look at the sell duration of orders. Player max duration is 90 days, so whenever you see orders for 360 days those are NPC orders.
When you hack you can go to eve-central and look up the prices there and take your stuff where it will sell for the most. Generally though, if you want to sell immediately, Jita is often best because it has the lowest margins.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Wombat65Au Egdald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2016.03.16 11:15:33 -
[5] - Quote
Teium Purvanen wrote:Me again!! (i'm so sorry)
I might think about EvE when I'm in bed waiting to go to sleep and think of things that could help me ingame.........i'm cool.....honest!!
Is EvE's economy a living organism like the US or UK economy?
The reason I ask is because a few people have been commenting on the low returns from date and relic sites recently from what they used to be 2 months ago. I don't know what is good and bad prices.
Do prices fluctuate for periods of time? I don't want to have to change how I make isk with the effort I've put into exploration so far.
Kind regards, Teium
The economy is mostly player influenced. Apart from a few basic ships and equipment you get for free when you start Eve, all the other ships, their modules, their ammunition and so on was made by players and bought by other players to use (ok, a little bit of it comes from looting wrecks but only a small amount).
Prices can fluctuate based on player behaviour. A very big player run corp might try to restrict the supply of certain materials used to make things, to drive up the price of those materials and profit from that (it's been done before). Or a player run corp might try to flood the market with materials or items to drive down prices, and damage the income of rival player corps. Some individual players have tried to spread rumors in order to influence what is being bought and sold to manipulate prices to their advantage.
CCP doesn't try to control the market. They decide what ships/modules and other items should be in the game, but leave it to the players to decide for themselves what they want to use and therefore what gets bought and sold. If CCP make an item too powerful compared to other items, after some time they will adjust it's details to make things more balanced for players, and that adjustment may affect the market price of the item, but CCP doesn't do that to change the market, they do it to try to keep the game reasonably balanced for players and let the players decide what they want to spend their iskies on.
Not every player in the game wants to make your ship explode and die in a fire, some of them want to make your wallet explode and die in a fire. |
Memphis Baas
1346
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Posted - 2016.03.16 11:18:36 -
[6] - Quote
It's all players, that's why the prices fluctuate. Well, skills and some tradegoods like milk, frozen seeds, etc. are still NPC sold. You can tell because NPCs have orders for a whole year, whereas players are limited to 3 months tops.
This is why things like the ISK sinks and faucets are discussed, because they control the equivalent of inflation (money supply); most of the trades move ISK and goods between players, but a few things introduce ISK to the game (missions, rat bounties, etc), and others remove it (taxes, various rental and war declaration fees, etc.). |
Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
38
|
Posted - 2016.03.16 11:26:30 -
[7] - Quote
Wombat65Au Egdald wrote:
Not every player in the game wants to make your ship explode and die in a fire, some of them want to make your wallet explode and die in a fire.
Enemies everywhere in this game lol |
Memphis Baas
1346
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Posted - 2016.03.16 12:25:05 -
[8] - Quote
Teium Purvanen wrote:Enemies everywhere in this game lol Not enemies, just people who don't care about you on a personal level.
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Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2016.03.16 12:46:16 -
[9] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Teium Purvanen wrote:Enemies everywhere in this game lol Not enemies, just people who don't care about you on a personal level.
Very true |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1279
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Posted - 2016.03.16 12:58:58 -
[10] - Quote
The player driven economy is one of the main selling points of the game. I am surprised you are just discovering it now. I was under the impression it was one of the reasons many players try this game out in the first place. So even as a new player I just would assume that you've hear about it.
Anyway it does mimic real life markets. So much so that CCP has been approached by various universities to do research projects and / or experimentation on market based stuff. Last that I heard CCP flatly turned them down but it's been years since I've even hear mention of it.
CCP has a full time economist who's job is to monitor the game economy. While CCP does not directly affect the market with market orders they obviously control all game mechanics and can affect the market trends through changes in game mechanics as has been done with the industry changes of the past several years.
Anyway there are players who don't even undock and spend nearly all of their time in game just "playing the market".
So yes the Eve economy is deep. Probably the deepest in all of MMO gaming. |
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Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2016.03.16 13:23:48 -
[11] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote: I am surprised you are just discovering it now. I was under the impression it was one of the reasons many players try this game out in the first place.
I knew it was a very very big market, but never knew it was so real world |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1279
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Posted - 2016.03.16 13:35:14 -
[12] - Quote
I should probably point out here that we are talking about the isk market. There is aurum however I'm not exactly sure how that market works or how you even go about spending aurum. It is a separate market however I believe that you can buy some things with aurum and sell them for isk. All of them are purely cosmetic things like clothes or ship skins that have no effect on gameplay. |
Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2016.03.16 13:44:40 -
[13] - Quote
I'm probably just panicking over nothing. I'll just see what happens to data/relic items in the coming weeks. |
gfldex
758
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Posted - 2016.03.16 14:00:37 -
[14] - Quote
Teium Purvanen wrote:Do prices fluctuate for periods of time? I don't want to have to change how I make isk with the effort I've put into exploration so far.
The prices are not your only concern. EVEs loot system is dynamic. The game actually counts the number of items dropped into all players laps and will adjust drop probabilities. That's the reason why missions against Sanshas drop so much more loot then missions against Guristas. This is not official confirmed by CCP and they could change it with any DT anyway (that's why they would not confirm it). Some years ago a dev expressed his wishes to overhaul the loot system (very overdue that is) but wanted to wait until the server side code was replaced with something proper. He seams to be very good at waiting.
What that tells you is that your income as an explorer depends on market prices (and therefor consumption and speculation), drop rates (that can change with any DT and wont be covered in dev blogs or patch notes) and competition. Given that you, as a noob, can do it without investing billions, you should not expect to get rich.
If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
864
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Posted - 2016.03.16 14:01:12 -
[15] - Quote
Exploration is very random. You might go weeks with nothing to show for it, then a few more weeks of jackpots.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
38
|
Posted - 2016.03.16 14:14:59 -
[16] - Quote
gfldex wrote:. Given that you, as a noob, can do it without investing billions, you should not expect to get rich.
*cringe* hate that word - noob.
I'm not trying to get "rich" quick just want to know if my 30-50mill a day is sustainable or if I need to have a side gig |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
108
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Posted - 2016.03.16 14:54:14 -
[17] - Quote
Wombat65Au Egdald wrote: Not every player in the game wants to make your ship explode and die in a fire, some of them want to make your wallet explode and die in a fire.
If you understand that point, you start to see that Player vs Player (PvP) is everywhere in EVE and in most MMO's, EVE just takes even Player vs Environment (PvE) up to that next level.
If you work in moderation in the markets, it's actually pretty easy to sell and buy goods reasonably. If you want that last 0.01 ISK out of everyone, you need to work your tush off for it. The Market is it's own game inside of the game.
EVE really boils down to 3 main "Aspects" of it's game... all are PvP, but the first two are considered EVE's version of PvE.
1. Ingress (Resource Gathering). This is Mining, Salvage and Missions. These are the activities that support the market and train the players to do more advanced activities found in the other two aspects. Some players actually stop here and have fun in this area. Most graduate on to focus on the other areas in some fashion. Yes, fun can be had here. It's also where most solo players tend to spend time.
2. Industry/Research/Marketeering (Materials Creation and Evolution). This is where things get made and discovered. New equipment from CCP gets introduced in this area when they decide to have something new. Players here spend lots of time in stations doing what is generally referred to as 'egghead' type stuff. You can also put Market Manipulation here where players buy and sell things to make a profit, using the game like a stock trading floor. It can be just as cutthroat here as any space battle, but doesn't have all the glamor and explosions to go with it... just the tears.
3. Destruction. The end game of EVE. Everything from the previous two aspects are funneled here. Ships, Player owned stations, fittings, fuel, ammunition, drones, etc. etc. all die here. This is what many players consider to be PvP in EVE, however, it's really just the most common facet of PvP, even the other two aspects are PvP based. Salvaging and Looting actually rotate the cycle back to the first two aspects so it neatly rolls right around and the EVE universe keeps going on and on.
That's the cliff notes version of EVE economics. Pick your poison, play your game... make it your game. Have a ton of fun. If you get bored, try something else.
EVE is great stuff!
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Memphis Baas
1346
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Posted - 2016.03.16 15:16:45 -
[18] - Quote
Teium Purvanen wrote:just want to know if my 30-50mill a day is sustainable or if I need to have a side gig
Math is simple: imagine you have a bad day and lose 10 ships. 50 mil to cover 10 ships = 5 mil per ship, so you can afford to lose T1 cruisers with T1/T2 mods (but not officer mods). Once you accumulate 1-2 billion, you can probably afford to lose a few 100-mil battleships.
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Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
272
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Posted - 2016.03.16 16:53:59 -
[19] - Quote
A few things I haven't seen mentioned in other posts: 1. The Eve market is a pure commodity market - about the only differentiation between your product and someone else is price and location. 2. The market is cyclical. The market tool has a history tab that will show you the cycle for any product you're interested in for the past year. The cycle is pretty stable unless the developers make a change to the game that impacts that item. 3. Selling to buy orders in Jita is a good way to make someone else rich. Create sell orders in one of the smaller hubs. It's more work but you'll be well paid for the effort. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
864
|
Posted - 2016.03.16 17:20:43 -
[20] - Quote
Re: RW stock trading. I read a statement once that "In every trade both traders think the other is an idiot."
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1281
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Posted - 2016.03.17 01:01:49 -
[21] - Quote
Teium Purvanen wrote: Do prices fluctuate for periods of time? I don't want to have to change how I make isk with the effort I've put into exploration so far.
Eve is one of those don't put all of your eggs in one basket situations.
If you enjoy exploration then keep doing it. That should not however stop you from trying other stuff. It most certainly should not be the only thing that you do or are capable of doing or working on becoming proficient at. |
Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
38
|
Posted - 2016.03.17 10:12:06 -
[22] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Teium Purvanen wrote: Do prices fluctuate for periods of time? I don't want to have to change how I make isk with the effort I've put into exploration so far.
Eve is one of those don't put all of your eggs in one basket situations. If you enjoy exploration then keep doing it. That should not however stop you from trying other stuff. It most certainly should not be the only thing that you do or are capable of doing or working on becoming proficient at.
Is it possible to be a miner and explorer?
If so Is solo mining possible? |
Wombat65Au Egdald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2016.03.17 10:50:37 -
[23] - Quote
Teium Purvanen wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Teium Purvanen wrote: Do prices fluctuate for periods of time? I don't want to have to change how I make isk with the effort I've put into exploration so far.
Eve is one of those don't put all of your eggs in one basket situations. If you enjoy exploration then keep doing it. That should not however stop you from trying other stuff. It most certainly should not be the only thing that you do or are capable of doing or working on becoming proficient at. Is it possible to be a miner and explorer? If so Is solo mining possible?
It's possible to do everything in Eve, with the understanding that to do it all on one character will take time. Time to train the skills and try stuff to see what works for you and what doesn't.
I haven't read your other thread on exploring in detail, but I did notice that wormholes were mentioned several times. You can find unusual things in wormholes, including things you can mine that aren't normally found in hisec and losec space. Exploring for wormholes and mining stuff inside them, then bringing it back to regular space to sell is a real thing, some players specialise at doing that, There are also hacking sites inside wormholes and NPC rats to shoot and loot. Wormhole rats are among the toughest in the game so some caution with them is needed.
There are solo players and some player corps who specialise in being based in W-space and doing most of their gaming in W-space.
Here's a link to a youtube channel for an Eve player corp that specialises in W-space. They have a series of vids explaining various details about W-space. The CCP devs do change details of the game over time so some of the older W-space vids on that channel are a bit out of date now, but even those older vids still contain some useful information. Look for the vids titled WF 2.0.... for the newer ones and Wormhole Fundamentals for the older ones. https://www.youtube.com/user/Asayanami/videos
Also there is the Eve University wiki, one of the most detailed player created wikis about Eve. Here's their intro page for wormholes. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Wormholes There are links on the right hand side of that wiki page which take you to pages with more detailed information. |
Jacques d'Orleans
2700
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Posted - 2016.03.17 10:59:59 -
[24] - Quote
Teium Purvanen wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Teium Purvanen wrote: Do prices fluctuate for periods of time? I don't want to have to change how I make isk with the effort I've put into exploration so far.
Eve is one of those don't put all of your eggs in one basket situations. If you enjoy exploration then keep doing it. That should not however stop you from trying other stuff. It most certainly should not be the only thing that you do or are capable of doing or working on becoming proficient at. Is it possible to be a miner and explorer? If so Is solo mining possible?
Solo mining is possible, but if your real profession is exploration, i think it would be better to go for PI instead of mining. PI doesn't take as much time as mining and therefore gives you more time for your exploration. Planetary interaction
The beginning of the End
Skill injectors? Attempting to give a shyte: 0.5%
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
870
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Posted - 2016.03.17 11:20:15 -
[25] - Quote
Teium Purvanen wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Teium Purvanen wrote: Do prices fluctuate for periods of time? I don't want to have to change how I make isk with the effort I've put into exploration so far.
Eve is one of those don't put all of your eggs in one basket situations. If you enjoy exploration then keep doing it. That should not however stop you from trying other stuff. It most certainly should not be the only thing that you do or are capable of doing or working on becoming proficient at. Is it possible to be a miner and explorer? If so Is solo mining possible?
Yes. Eventually.
But it will take a lot of time, or skill injectors to have one character good at many things. That is why we advise players to try many different things early, because trying doesn't have a large skill investment. After experimenting normally I'd advise specializing in whatever you like so you can maximize your income quickly. Also, once you've skilled up your career, you can then start training other skills, such as pvp.
However, there is certainly no need to do so. You could dual train exploration and mining if that makes the game more enjoyable for you. It will open up another income stream.
Solo mining is possible, you'll just never make nearly as much as a player that mines in groups. What matters is not how much isk you make relative to another player, but do you make enough isk to pay for your losses and upgrades. If you do, then it doesn't matter how much another player makes.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2016.03.17 11:39:22 -
[26] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Teium Purvanen wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Teium Purvanen wrote: Do prices fluctuate for periods of time? I don't want to have to change how I make isk with the effort I've put into exploration so far.
Eve is one of those don't put all of your eggs in one basket situations. If you enjoy exploration then keep doing it. That should not however stop you from trying other stuff. It most certainly should not be the only thing that you do or are capable of doing or working on becoming proficient at. Is it possible to be a miner and explorer? If so Is solo mining possible? Solo mining is possible, but if your real profession is exploration, i think it would be better to go for PI instead of mining. PI doesn't take as much time as mining and therefore gives you more time for your exploration. Planetary interaction
Hmmmmmm you have peeked my interest :)
Just from a quick read from your link, this looks like something I can do in my down time from exploration.
Lots more stuff to learn :D
Really enjoying this game!! |
Jacques d'Orleans
2700
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Posted - 2016.03.17 16:41:14 -
[27] - Quote
Teium Purvanen wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Teium Purvanen wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Teium Purvanen wrote: Do prices fluctuate for periods of time? I don't want to have to change how I make isk with the effort I've put into exploration so far.
Eve is one of those don't put all of your eggs in one basket situations. If you enjoy exploration then keep doing it. That should not however stop you from trying other stuff. It most certainly should not be the only thing that you do or are capable of doing or working on becoming proficient at. Is it possible to be a miner and explorer? If so Is solo mining possible? Solo mining is possible, but if your real profession is exploration, i think it would be better to go for PI instead of mining. PI doesn't take as much time as mining and therefore gives you more time for your exploration. Planetary interaction
Hmmmmmm you have peeked my interest :) Just from a quick read from your link, this looks like something I can do in my down time from exploration. Lots more stuff to learn :D Really enjoying this game!!
Not only can you do it in your down time from exploration, you can do it even when exploring. Once the factories are set up, they take a minimal amount of time to carry for and provide you a steady income while running more or less in the background.
The beginning of the End
Skill injectors? Attempting to give a shyte: 0.5%
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Gyliam Maddox
EVE Credit Bureau
1
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Posted - 2016.03.18 20:53:53 -
[28] - Quote
If you can't be bothered dealing with Market Trading then I highly recommend the Finance industry of EvE, it is still quite young and there is a growing interest in it. |
Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
43
|
Posted - 2016.03.21 10:03:13 -
[29] - Quote
I dipped my toe into Planetary stuff over the weekend. There is so much I can do with it to make a good amount of money. Found it really interesting as well :) |
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