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zus
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
42
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Posted - 2016.07.26 19:47:44 -
[61] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
Your solution is to not be stupid.
You're asking pigs to not get muddy.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17080
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 19:50:52 -
[62] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote: I can only presume
I wouldnt.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
303
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Posted - 2016.07.26 19:56:46 -
[63] - Quote
zus wrote:Proposal of Ship Scanning as Hostile Act in any solar system, pass the Resolution
Cargo Scanners / Ship Scanners use as Hostile Act. I know I'm late to the party here, but this reminded me of a fond memory:
Ironically about a week into EVE I got a fancy new module called a "ship scanner" - and I tried it out on a random passerby.
As it turned out, this passerby was a member of a corp called "Interimo" - which was in an alliance called "End of Line." (though they are probably better known for their time in Privateer Alliance). In any case it was one of the big wardeccing groups of the time...
He took it as a hostile act...and thus began my first war-dec in EVE.
Good times. |
Lawrence Lawton
The Conference Elite CODE.
0
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Posted - 2016.07.26 20:06:05 -
[64] - Quote
Carebears such as the OP are the greatest existential threat to EVE Online. They will not be satisfied until they have completely eliminated highsec aggression and turned highsec into a risk-free theme park. That is not what EVE is about.
I believe that the only suitable role of a Carebear is to provide content for gankers. I counter-propose that we eliminate the Faction Police to make Highsec more attractive to gankers. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
850
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Posted - 2016.07.26 21:16:14 -
[65] - Quote
Umm.. Im siting here thinking about this and getting ideas. This is generally NOT a good thing but Ill go with it anyway.
Atm scanning and ganking are quite binary as an equation. There really isnt much more than calculate your dps and their EHP along with value of your ships and your targets drop chance in terms of isk. Once this condition is met you simply lock and fire and that is that. Go sit out your 15 min timer and rinse repeat unless youre low on sec and then you head off to concord station to "reship" sec with tags.
So how can we make it non binary? Scanning modules offer the greatest area to play with this idea as the gank itself is just lock and shoot. We already have a hacking minigame template but what happens if you needed to hack into the ships security system, instead of 'press buttan recieve bacon' style gameplay, and while the hack is going on the other player becomes your opponent in the hacking minigame. You either are racing for the command node itself to attack or defend or the pilot is the defender and the ganker is only the attacker.
This style of interaction would be interesting but tough simply because of the time frames involved in the gank itself. A frieghter warps in 20s or so and a hauler in much less. Being bumped would negate the time frame of course. But a successful attack might mean that the cargo is scanned and can be reported as a target and an unsuccessful attempt would amount to what? Denial of cargo scan? Immunity for bumping? Scanner going suspect?
The only issue at present is the time required to attack/defend such an attempt and it would apply the best to freighters given that issue imo. But basically any idea that makes this interaction non binary would be the best option. Rather than fitting and other BS answers we toss about. Anything to make it more challenging rather than 'push buttan receive bacon.'
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
643
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Posted - 2016.07.26 21:23:34 -
[66] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:Umm.. Im siting here thinking about this and getting ideas. This is generally NOT a good thing but Ill go with it anyway. Atm scanning and ganking are quite binary as an equation. There really isnt much more than calculate your dps and their EHP along with value of your ships and your targets drop chance in terms of isk. Once this condition is met you simply lock and fire and that is that. Go sit out your 15 min timer and rinse repeat unless youre low on sec and then you head off to concord station to "reship" sec with tags. So how can we make it non binary? Scanning modules offer the greatest area to play with this idea as the gank itself is just lock and shoot. We already have a hacking minigame template but what happens if you needed to hack into the ships security system, instead of 'press buttan recieve bacon' style gameplay, and while the hack is going on the other player becomes your opponent in the hacking minigame. You either are racing for the command node itself to attack or defend or the pilot is the defender and the ganker is only the attacker. This style of interaction would be interesting but tough simply because of the time frames involved in the gank itself. A frieghter warps in 20s or so and a hauler in much less. Being bumped would negate the time frame of course. But a successful attack might mean that the cargo is scanned and can be reported as a target and an unsuccessful attempt would amount to what? Denial of cargo scan? Immunity for bumping? Scanner going suspect? The only issue at present is the time required to attack/defend such an attempt and it would apply the best to freighters given that issue imo. But basically any idea that makes this interaction non binary would be the best option. Rather than fitting and other BS answers we toss about. Anything to make it more challenging rather than 'push buttan receive bacon.' Awesome suggestion.
This would be the new fleet tactic to spam opponents screens with hacking Windows.
"Everyone, scan the enemy logi....Now their FC....etc."
Great outcome to 'fix' a non-problem. |
Verlyn
Teutate raiders DARKNESS.
62
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Posted - 2016.07.26 22:55:28 -
[67] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:Umm.. Im siting here thinking about this and getting ideas. This is generally NOT a good thing but Ill go with it anyway. Atm scanning and ganking are quite binary as an equation. There really isnt much more than calculate your dps and their EHP along with value of your ships and your targets drop chance in terms of isk. Once this condition is met you simply lock and fire and that is that. Go sit out your 15 min timer and rinse repeat unless youre low on sec and then you head off to concord station to "reship" sec with tags. So how can we make it non binary? Scanning modules offer the greatest area to play with this idea as the gank itself is just lock and shoot. We already have a hacking minigame template but what happens if you needed to hack into the ships security system, instead of 'press buttan recieve bacon' style gameplay, and while the hack is going on the other player becomes your opponent in the hacking minigame. You either are racing for the command node itself to attack or defend or the pilot is the defender and the ganker is only the attacker. This style of interaction would be interesting but tough simply because of the time frames involved in the gank itself. A frieghter warps in 20s or so and a hauler in much less. Being bumped would negate the time frame of course. But a successful attack might mean that the cargo is scanned and can be reported as a target and an unsuccessful attempt would amount to what? Denial of cargo scan? Immunity for bumping? Scanner going suspect? The only issue at present is the time required to attack/defend such an attempt and it would apply the best to freighters given that issue imo. But basically any idea that makes this interaction non binary would be the best option. Rather than fitting and other BS answers we toss about. Anything to make it more challenging rather than 'push buttan receive bacon.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67IQ1Jr-4RM |
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
58
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Posted - 2016.07.26 23:45:18 -
[68] - Quote
zus wrote:Dark Lord Trump wrote:Explain why? Cargo scanning is completely harmless to the target ship. What is the motive in their use To see what's inside. What happens next has nothing to do with me. *innocent smile*
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1451
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Posted - 2016.07.27 00:24:17 -
[69] - Quote
Hisec pvp has never really been my thing. However, nothing makes me want to go on a cruel ganking spree more than the summer rash of anti-ganking threads. The idea that such a spree will kill the game is going to need some stats to back it up. That won't happen.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
646
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Posted - 2016.07.27 02:08:43 -
[70] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:...summer rash...
There's probably an ointment you can use for that. Check in with your neighborhood pharmacy, they'll be happy to help.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Valkin Mordirc
2223
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Posted - 2016.07.27 04:05:22 -
[71] - Quote
Something tells me is a satirical troll.
But still, Can I get a ONE MORE NERF?
EDIT: Maybe not, either he's in it for the long run, or he really believes it.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
470
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Posted - 2016.07.27 04:07:06 -
[72] - Quote
Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of a ship scanner?
If you want scan immunity, double wrap or blockade runner dude. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
470
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Posted - 2016.07.27 04:13:20 -
[73] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Suggesting cargo scanning is harmless is the same as suggesting bumping a freighter out of alignment is harmless. Neither is currently an aggressive act due to game mechanics but the reality is it only serves one purpose when done on another ship.
aaaannnndddd WRONG.
Ship scanners are used in Armageddons to monitor another ship's capacitor. Also useful to make sure "is this a cyno ship?" And if you want to check out the enemy's Augoror fit with a neutral alt before going in deep, you guessed it: ZKill or Shipscanner! How do we know the container we're about to hack is not worth our trouble? ....
This is really getting ridiculous.
Was CODE right all along? WERE THEY?! ffs man up. |
Knitram Relik
Running With Railguns
61
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Posted - 2016.07.27 04:45:26 -
[74] - Quote
No. Double wrap yer stuffs if you don't want people to know what you've got.
And grow a pair, this is Eve. |
Vortexo VonBrenner
Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning
2389
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Posted - 2016.07.27 05:12:05 -
[75] - Quote
Blockade runner bingo is a thing. Actually no need to double-wrap, just don't afk and use your cloak = happytimes
EvE security zones in pictures
EvE quick reference pdf
A wise man sums up EvE
Smoke me a Kipper...
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1933
|
Posted - 2016.07.27 05:47:30 -
[76] - Quote
Methinks this thread will not get locked like the others because its beneficial to the ganker POV, IBNL
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
471
|
Posted - 2016.07.27 06:03:29 -
[77] - Quote
It's actually beneficial to general-purpose intel gathering.
Remember how we spin a yarn about active effort to gather intelligence, as opposed to receiving it automatically, for free, on a silver platter? Well, having to scan for contents is one of the "active effort" category.
Take that away and you have no way of verifying your nose when you smell trap.
The fact that gankers also happen to use this particular module has little to do with anything -- I say the same thing to gankers when they come up with bumping or looting exploits. In this case though ...... You can't ask gankers to "pick their targets more carefully" and then take away the tools to actually do so.
Ima Wreckyou is gonna love this but yea. Basically it's a preposterous idea and it'll get locked as soon as the comedy value runs out methinks. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1933
|
Posted - 2016.07.27 06:05:57 -
[78] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:It's actually beneficial to general-purpose intel gathering.
Remember how we spin a yarn about active effort to gather intelligence, as opposed to receiving it automatically, for free, on a silver platter? Well, having to scan for contents is one of the "active effort" category.
Take that away and you have no way of verifying your nose when you smell trap.
The fact that gankers also happen to use this particular module has little to do with anything -- I say the same thing to gankers when they come up with bumping or looting exploits. In this case though ...... You can't ask gankers to "pick their targets more carefully" and then take away the tools to actually do so.
Ima Wreckyou is gonna love this but yea. Basically it's a preposterous idea and it'll get locked as soon as the comedy value runs out methinks.
Well one issue I have is I have actually gone and ganked a few, perhaps if CCP could remove gate gun assistance to ships that have used that module I would be happy.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
471
|
Posted - 2016.07.27 06:11:03 -
[79] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Well one issue I have is I have actually gone and ganked a few, perhaps if CCP could remove gate gun assistance to ships that have used that module I would be happy.
To be fair ... second whine thread in two days makes me want to fit up a throwaway Thorax and vent some anger towards this excessive tearjerking. I realize all too well what that would make me. But seriously they got to stop or I swear I will. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1933
|
Posted - 2016.07.27 06:31:05 -
[80] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Well one issue I have is I have actually gone and ganked a few, perhaps if CCP could remove gate gun assistance to ships that have used that module I would be happy. To be fair ... second whine thread in two days makes me want to fit up a throwaway Thorax and vent some anger towards this excessive tearjerking. I realize all too well what that would make me. But seriously they got to stop or I swear I will.
Go and do it, but as a test, try shooting some ganker scouts
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Aurelius Oshidashi
Immortal Lunatics Ministry of Agressive Destruction
11
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Posted - 2016.07.27 06:56:23 -
[81] - Quote
For at least the coming months, I have a direct interest in making gankers life hard. It will help my industry operations. However, I don't want to destroy this game by taking the coolest element out of it, being the danger of flying in space.
I've been ganked while afk and have been super pissed because of it, then accepted this is the game, then soon after got ganked again. Then I used my anger to advocate for aggressive countermeasures against gankers, like starting an alliance to f u c k them up. That was too great of an endeavour, but within 24 hours after the gank I realised I actually love being scared shitless when undocking my ship. It's what makes this game interesting, it's what makes me think about new strategies to counter gankers. I want to thank CODE or whatever terrorists ganked me for letting me enjoy the game even more.
So please don't nerf ganking. Keep EvE dangerous and don't make it a theme park for softies. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1933
|
Posted - 2016.07.27 07:08:52 -
[82] - Quote
Aurelius Oshidashi wrote:For at least the coming months, I have a direct interest in making gankers life hard. It will help my industry operations. However, I don't want to destroy this game by taking the coolest element out of it, being the danger of flying in space.
I've been ganked while afk and have been super pissed because of it, then accepted this is the game, then soon after got ganked again. Then I used my anger to advocate for aggressive countermeasures against gankers, like starting an alliance to f u c k them up. That was too great of an endeavour, but within 24 hours after the gank I realised I actually love being scared shitless when undocking my ship. It's what makes this game interesting, it's what makes me think about new strategies to counter gankers. I want to thank CODE or whatever terrorists ganked me for letting me enjoy the game even more.
So please don't nerf ganking. Keep EvE dangerous and don't make it a theme park for softies.
What exactly do you mean by nerfing ganking? And the use of the word softies made me laugh, get away with you...
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5022
|
Posted - 2016.07.27 07:39:25 -
[83] - Quote
Knitram Relik wrote:No. Double wrap yer stuffs if you don't want people to know what you've got.
And grow a pair, this is Eve.
Yes, I too liked to be ganked. Nowadays, people will gank you just to be damn sure that double wrapped cargo is not valuable.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1267
|
Posted - 2016.07.27 07:47:37 -
[84] - Quote
I must try double-wrapping 1 unit of tritanium and park a freighter carrying the stuff outside Jita 4-4 and see what happens.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Aurelius Oshidashi
Immortal Lunatics Ministry of Agressive Destruction
12
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Posted - 2016.07.27 08:16:20 -
[85] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Aurelius Oshidashi wrote:For at least the coming months, I have a direct interest in making gankers life hard. It will help my industry operations. However, I don't want to destroy this game by taking the coolest element out of it, being the danger of flying in space.
I've been ganked while afk and have been super pissed because of it, then accepted this is the game, then soon after got ganked again. Then I used my anger to advocate for aggressive countermeasures against gankers, like starting an alliance to f u c k them up. That was too great of an endeavour, but within 24 hours after the gank I realised I actually love being scared shitless when undocking my ship. It's what makes this game interesting, it's what makes me think about new strategies to counter gankers. I want to thank CODE or whatever terrorists ganked me for letting me enjoy the game even more.
So please don't nerf ganking. Keep EvE dangerous and don't make it a theme park for softies. What exactly do you mean by nerfing ganking? And the use of the words theme park and softies made me laugh, get away with you...
Nerfing ganking means having CCP take measures aimed at decreasing or eliminating ganking. I consider the emotion that comes with being ganked as a good driver for playing this game.
With softies I mean people that dont use one of the many ways to counter ganking, but instead call for CCP to eliminate or nerf it through the forums. With theme park I mean an environment in high sec that is almost 100% safe.
I've only been playing on an active subscription for a bit over 6 months, so please correct me where needed, I feel these forums are mostly populated by quite experienced players. I mostly absorb and learn, but all these threads calling on CCP to make high safer got me off a bit, I feel a gankfree high sec wouldn't make this game better. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1933
|
Posted - 2016.07.27 08:39:01 -
[86] - Quote
Aurelius Oshidashi wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Aurelius Oshidashi wrote:For at least the coming months, I have a direct interest in making gankers life hard. It will help my industry operations. However, I don't want to destroy this game by taking the coolest element out of it, being the danger of flying in space.
I've been ganked while afk and have been super pissed because of it, then accepted this is the game, then soon after got ganked again. Then I used my anger to advocate for aggressive countermeasures against gankers, like starting an alliance to f u c k them up. That was too great of an endeavour, but within 24 hours after the gank I realised I actually love being scared shitless when undocking my ship. It's what makes this game interesting, it's what makes me think about new strategies to counter gankers. I want to thank CODE or whatever terrorists ganked me for letting me enjoy the game even more.
So please don't nerf ganking. Keep EvE dangerous and don't make it a theme park for softies. What exactly do you mean by nerfing ganking? And the use of the words theme park and softies made me laugh, get away with you... Nerfing ganking means having CCP take measures aimed at decreasing or eliminating ganking. I consider the emotion that comes with being ganked as a good driver for playing this game. With softies I mean people that dont use one of the many ways to counter ganking, but instead call for CCP to eliminate or nerf it through the forums. With theme park I mean an environment in high sec that is almost 100% safe. I've only been playing on an active subscription for a bit over 6 months, so please correct me where needed, I feel these forums are mostly populated by quite experienced players. I mostly absorb and learn, but all these threads calling on CCP to make high safer got me off a bit, I feel a gankfree high sec wouldn't make this game better.
First of all ganking is always going to exist in this game contrary to how the HTFU crowd like to say otherwise, what they mean when they say nerf ganking is anything that makes it more difficult, even when it is to remove something that was massively to their advantage.
Lets take a few examples of what people call nerfing ganking, CCP decided to change the DCU II to a passive modules, which you do not switch on, so they adjusted the structures on various ships including freighters that could not use it. And the gankers cried nerf.
Another one, no consequence bumping to hold people in space, there is now going to be a timer, do you call that a nerf to ganking or an adjustment of a poor mechanic.
At the moment they scoop loot by parking a DST next to a wreck and their freighter, incomes a noob ship which scoops the loot into the DST fleet hanger, the freighter pilot scoops that into his hanger, the noob ship goes suspect and can be shot. Would adjusting that be a nerf to ganking or a nerf to loot scooping.
When people talk about such things, they get accused of wanting to nerf ganking, when in fact a lot of the time they are talking about poor mechanic which remove consequences.
At one point the wrecks all had the saem EHP, which is kinda silly, the AG guys were shooting wrecks so they could not scoop the loot, suddenly and very quickly CCP changed it so the wrecks had more EHP based on the ship size, the AG players said, wow, they acted fast on that, makes sense however, but is a pity and moved on. Who is being a softy here?
Hisec is not safe, ganking and war decs are always going to be in this game, most of the forum fights are around mechanic and balance changes that make it less of a cake walk or less like taking candy from a baby.
For example this beauty from this thread, Gankers use scouts, some use frigates and they can be ganked with a Catalyst, Aaaarg and his Smurf alts use Thrashers to scout which cannot be taken down by a Catalyst before the gate guns blow them up, you have to use a plated Thorax. I don't agree with the proposal put forward by the OP, but I understand his frustration.
Currently there are three threads in the forums where gankers are moaning about the Skiff because they are not able to up their game to gank them. They have the ability to gank them if they work as a team and if they have the will, but they do not and are calling for a nerf to yield and tank. If you are interested in fighting a good start would be not to parrot their baseless propaganda but to learn the reality, as well as blowing up their scouts and gank ships, if you do this enough you might then learn just how easy they have it in some areas.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
270
|
Posted - 2016.07.27 09:10:46 -
[87] - Quote
When I've had to haul stuff to or from a trade hub, I always assume that I'll be scanned and not just cargo-scanned either. It is so useful that juicier, softer targets are chosen. |
Aurelius Oshidashi
Immortal Lunatics Ministry of Agressive Destruction
12
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Posted - 2016.07.27 09:17:06 -
[88] - Quote
Damn, my reply disappeared, will rewrite later... |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17710
|
Posted - 2016.07.27 09:19:23 -
[89] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
Lets take a few examples of what people call nerfing ganking, CCP decided to change the DCU II to a passive modules, which you do not switch on, so they adjusted the structures on various ships including freighters that could not use it. And the gankers cried nerf.
Adding the EHP of another freighter to jump freighters already large tank is a hell of a nerf considering these ships couldn't even fit a DCU. Plus the DCU change failed to meet its own goals, the mod is still a must have on everything that fitted them before.
Dracvlad wrote: Another one, no consequence bumping to hold people in space, there is now going to be a timer, do you call that a nerf to ganking or an adjustment of a poor mechanic.
Both. There were very easy counters to it but the fix isn't game breaking to ganking as you can still use the tactic to get the freighter into position.
Dracvlad wrote: At the moment they scoop loot by parking a DST next to a wreck and their freighter, incomes a noob ship which scoops the loot into the DST fleet hanger, the freighter pilot scoops that into his hanger, the noob ship goes suspect and can be shot. Would adjusting that be a nerf to ganking or a nerf to loot scooping.
People have yet to explain how you squeeze a freighter worth of cargo into a DST to pull this off.
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Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
830
|
Posted - 2016.07.27 09:21:21 -
[90] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:What's a "hostile act"?
I define 'hostile act' as: Being in the same constellation as me and not in my fleet/alliance.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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