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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2781
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Posted - 2016.12.01 21:57:09 -
[31] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:
Again, personally disparaging those on the community is so effective. Take much away from the US presidential election? Very effective upon those less educated...
If you don't want people to comment on your selfish entitlement, don't display it so openly in public.
Quote:I have suggested having this available via plex if you bothered to read, but guess you don't have the time. This is a matter of comparable offering of sp to those that actually PAY for their accounts vs gifts to those that do not.
Well, no, you suggested being able to just buy 5 million SP for one plex, when a transfer will cost you two (and a significant amount of time, to boot). See if you can spot the lost revenue. I'll wait while you count on your fingers.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
46127
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Posted - 2016.12.01 22:01:29 -
[32] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:Alpha is FREE for 5M sp. Omega is not.
The take away from this is that the community supports a proliferation of accounts vs offering the SAME THING to paid subscribers without the proliferation of accounts. This is the totally irrational part... Incorrect.
Alpha is free to ~5 million SP, racially locked, slow training, limited skills and limited access to ships and modules.
Omega has none of those restrictions. The Omega account is in every way superior. We can train all of the skills that an alpha can train, but do so twice as fast; and have access to a lot more.
This discussion is getting pointless now, because you are looking at 2 different products and complaining that the one with the fewer capabilities is a better product. It isn't.
However, you are also free to make an alpha and train it if you think that is superior. No one is going to stop you.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2014
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Posted - 2016.12.01 22:08:11 -
[33] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:Not true, paid account holders HAVE to pay for the first 5M sp on their accounts. Unpaid do not. This only encourages a proliferation of accounts for those with paid accounts. No account has to pay for that first 5mil because paying is not not a mandate to have that SP (assuming you want that SP in the alpha skillset).
What you get if you do pay is the ability to get that same amount of SP faster and removed hardcaps on what that SP can be in.
That's nothing but gains over an alpha account. If you don't feel that has any value you can solve your issue by lapsing to alpha or starting a new alpha account.
Zorn Cosby wrote:Again, personally disparaging those on the community is so effective. Take much away from the US presidential election? Very effective upon those less educated...
I have suggested having this available via plex if you bothered to read, but guess you don't have the time. This is a matter of comparable offering of sp to those that actually PAY for their accounts vs gifts to those that do not ... Alpha is FREE for 5M sp. Omega is not.
The take away from this is that the community supports a proliferation of accounts vs offering the SAME THING to paid subscribers without the proliferation of accounts. This is the totally irrational part... If training speed and skill selection differences are removed then yes, it's the same thing. But since they are not removed they are not the same.
As far as account proliferation, that's something CCP has marketed to for quite some time. |
Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2016.12.01 22:31:01 -
[34] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote: If you don't want people to comment on your selfish entitlement, don't display it so openly in public.
Well, no, you suggested being able to just buy 5 million SP for one plex, when a transfer will cost you two (and a significant amount of time, to boot). See if you can spot the lost revenue. I'll wait while you count on your fingers.
Wow really wanting to show your colors very clearly I see... Calling me entitled, yet disparaging my solutions and offering no alternatives except the irrational current situation. And then continuing the name calling since your discussion was specious and your reading of my comments was superficial. Just wow.
Now lets get the ACTUAL quote from earlier in the convo that you so carefully chose to NOT read for content...
Zorn Cosby wrote: If you really wanted to make things completely fair, then have paid Omega users have the ability to purchase a maxed Alpha character as a secondary using PLEX or so. This would not encourage the proliferation of account generation...
If you really wanted to capture the actual costs and have CCP make more money, then the cost offered by CCP to add a 5M sp alpha character to a paid account should be ~2 Plex. This would be a bonus in cash to CCP since it would actually be LESS to create and train a current Alpha account cause 1 Plex is all that is needed to transfer and 1 month of Omega time (cheaper than a Plex, particularly at the Alpha discount). This would actually probably prove to a be prime money maker to CCP for those looking to try something different on their existing accounts but not wanting to do MCT for the excessive cash output or stop training of their primaries for several months.
Scipio Artelius wrote:Incorrect.
Alpha is free to ~5 million SP, racially locked, slow training, limited skills and limited access to ships and modules.
Omega has none of those restrictions. The Omega account is in every way superior. We can train all of the skills that an alpha can train, but do so twice as fast; and have access to a lot more.
This discussion is getting pointless now, because you are looking at 2 different products and complaining that the one with the fewer capabilities is a better product. It isn't.
However, you are also free to make an alpha and train it if you think that is superior. No one is going to stop you. Incorrect. 5m sp is 5M sp, saying that core skills is not important for a huge number of characters is being needlessly argumentative.
I am not campaigning that it is superior, but that it is free and NOT AVAILABLE to those that pay WITHOUT adding accounts. Account proliferation is not something to be proud of, it is a needless byproduct of incomplete marketing and planning on CCP's part.
And by the way, please quote me in saying that Alpha is superior to Omega, I have NEVER said that. I said that Alpha is free for 5M sp and that Omega is NOT. These are FACTS. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2782
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Posted - 2016.12.01 23:01:46 -
[35] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote: Calling me entitled, yet disparaging my solutions and offering no alternatives except the irrational current situation. And then continuing the name calling since your discussion was specious and your reading of my comments was superficial. Just wow.
Well, yes. I'm calling you entitled, because you're insisting that you deserve something for nothing.
I'm not offering alternative solutions because you have, so far, completely failed to make the case that there is any problem requiring a solution, here. We just had more or less the same tedious thread last week, with the same trite, "I deserve more stuff because other people are getting stuff for free now," arguments you've put forth here.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
46128
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Posted - 2016.12.01 23:11:49 -
[36] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote: Incorrect. 5m sp is 5M sp, saying that core skills is not important for a huge number of characters is being needlessly argumentative.
I am not campaigning that it is superior, but that it is free and NOT AVAILABLE to those that pay WITHOUT adding accounts. Account proliferation is not something to be proud of, it is a needless byproduct of incomplete marketing and planning on CCP's part.
And by the way, please find a quote of me saying that Alpha is superior to Omega, I have NEVER said that. I said that Alpha is free for 5M sp and that Omega is NOT. These are FACTS.
Who said core skills are not important?
Yes, you are compliaining. Pointlessly, because:
1. No one is forcing any of us to pay until we max out an alpha; and
2. the number of skillpoints is not the only benefit of an omega.
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Natural CloneKiller
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
289
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Posted - 2016.12.01 23:30:41 -
[37] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:So from a practical perspective in terms of dollars. All characters should max out via an Alpha before purchasing an Omega. It is cheaper to farm Alpha accounts for sp, then purchase 1 PLEX to transfer to another account than it would be to have that character developed as a secondary on the PAID Omega account.
How is making the dedicated PAID user jump through hoops to train up a secondary character to maxed Alpha status a good thing?
If you really wanted to make things completely fair, then have paid Omega users have the ability to purchase a maxed Alpha character as a secondary using PLEX or so. This would not encourage the proliferation of account generation... Dude. Ccp have made an awesome game we all want to enjoy for a long time. Give them their real money they are due and enjoy. Stop being a tight arsed Yorkshire man. |
Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2016.12.02 15:05:50 -
[38] - Quote
Sigh, another instance of the community that chooses to attack a member vs support the good of the game. While I was not that thrilled with Eve over the last couple of years, I now realize that the community base is as much of the problem as the direction of CCP. For as much as the community base and CCP claims to want to attract and retain new members, honestly to a multi-year player it just feels otherwise. Just unsubed 8 accounts totaling over 700M sp.
Thanks for making it clear that eve's community consists of those looking to tear down vs build up. I'll spend my money elsewhere, and probably a lot less of it. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2791
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Posted - 2016.12.02 21:05:02 -
[39] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:Sigh, another instance of the community that chooses to attack a member vs support the good of the game.
Conflating your own self-severing desires and "the good of the game"?
Threatening to take your ball and go home if you don't get your way?
But this isn't about entitlement, right?
Be a doll and contract me your stuff on your way out.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
46147
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Posted - 2016.12.02 21:08:44 -
[40] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:Sigh, another instance of the community that chooses to attack a member vs support the good of the game. While I was not that thrilled with Eve over the last couple of years, I now realize that the community base is as much of the problem as the direction of CCP. For as much as the community base and CCP claims to want to attract and retain new members, honestly to a multi-year player it just feels otherwise. Just unsubed 8 accounts totaling over 700M sp.
Thanks for making it clear that eve's community consists of those looking to tear down vs build up. I'll spend my money elsewhere, and probably a lot less of it. Who's attacking you?
That we don't agree with your point isn't an attack on you. It's fine for people not to agree and that has nothing to do with supporting the good of the game. That's a non existent argument.
Tbh, that no one agrees with you is possibly as much to do with inability to argue a point effectively as it is the rest of the community don't agree. It's not our problem. We have no obligation to agree with what you write, just as you have no obligation to agree with what we write. Your disagreement isn't an attack on anyone either. It's the same thing both ways.
So if you want agreement with your argument, then your argument needs to be stronger.
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Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2016.12.02 23:07:55 -
[41] - Quote
One person comments that I am entitled (and continually labels me as such) since I want as a paying player access to what is now offered to non paying players on a paying account (never acknowledging that I proposed to actually pay for it). And then continues to taunt and ridicule. (Note that I have not called names, yet he has for nearly every post since, it appears to be his modus operandi)
Another person comments that free 5M sp is nothing of note and refuses to see that 5M sp does have value and believes that paying players should not have access to it except by pretending as if they were new players.
And then the 'status quo' community decides to bury their heads about potentially offering the same via a paying account for a fee, yet continues to diss this as an idea.
Negative and mocking comments have impact. CCP changes over the last 18 months to clones, mining, & boosting are just additional issues that have reduced profitability and complicated interactivity for no improvement in gameplay. While this unsubbing would likely have happened sometime in the distant future, it sure as heck happened earlier since I have now identified more specifically my general malaise about the game and discovering it was as much the community tenor as CCP's direction. CCP has lost $1K+ annual income from me, basically a nearly perfect player to have since I fund my accounts with solely cash.
Congrats and thanks for having me save my money and hurting CCP in the pocketbook. Pat yourself on the back for being nice, welcoming, open-minded and friendly to an idea about offering Alpha benefits for a fee to Omega accounts. It was so effective. If I distribute my billions, it will be to someone that has actually been helpful in game (there are just a few), not mocking and dismissive. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
46153
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Posted - 2016.12.02 23:16:54 -
[42] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:Another person comments that free 5M sp is nothing of note and refuses to see that 5M sp does have value and believes that paying players should not have access to it except by pretending as if they were new players. But you do have access to it.
You have access to those exact same skillpoints at twice the speed that an alpha account has access to them. Plus a whole lot more.
It's incorrect to say that as omegas we don't have access to those skillpoints.
Here's my eveboard for example: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Scipio_Artelius
Go compare my skills to the skills available to an alpha. Almost all of the alpha skills I have trained (except the PvE related ones).
I'm an omega.
Quote:Congrats and thanks for having me save my money and hurting CCP in the pocketbook. Pat yourself on the back for being nice, welcoming, open-minded and friendly to an idea about offering Alpha benefits for a fee to Omega accounts. It was so effective. If I distribute my billions, it will be to someone that has actually been helpful in game (there are just a few), not mocking and dismissive. That's your decision and we are all within our rights to make our own decisions. If you are quitting the game over the forums, then sorry to see you go, but it's not anyone's fault. It's just your decision and we shouldn't change our view just to decide your spending habits. Same as you shouldn't have to change your view to match what any of us think.
I could for example, decide not to play because of threads in the forum. That is nothing on the people that write those threads. It would be all my decision.
Just as your decision is here, so no need for congratulations to anyone as spite at people who don't share your view.
Quote:Negative and mocking comments have impact. CCP changes over the last 18 months to clones, mining, & boosting are just additional issues that have reduced profitability and complicated interactivity for no improvement in gameplay. Reduced profitability?
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1280
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Posted - 2016.12.02 23:35:37 -
[43] - Quote
This is going silly and we're not even a month after release.
Remove standings and insurance.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2014
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Posted - 2016.12.03 00:02:33 -
[44] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:This is going silly and we're not even a month after release. We've had several such threads attempting to "logic" their way into extra training or simultaneous alpha logons for a while now with various interpretations of what alphas offer. It wasn't even a week before this started. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1280
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Posted - 2016.12.03 00:15:16 -
[45] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Mara Pahrdi wrote:This is going silly and we're not even a month after release. We've had several such threads attempting to "logic" their way into extra training or simultaneous alpha logons for a while now with various interpretations of what alphas offer. It wasn't even a week before this started. Yes. We're a toxic community and a ruin to the game.
Remove standings and insurance.
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Salvos Rhoska
1629
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Posted - 2016.12.03 09:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
There is one advantage to Omegas which benefits some people more than others.
This is that since all characters on an Omega account can be flown without restrictions, players that actually have additional specialised/skilled characters on an account get more bang for their buck, than players that dont.
In this sense, it could be argued it would be fair that Omega accounts could train one character at Alpha rates and restrictions simultaneously on that Omega account, if there is a free character slot.
Im not gonna advocate for it, just pointing out the interesting systemic artifact that Omega status is more equitable for accounts with multiple developed characters than those that dont.
Its early days in the Alpha/Omega situation. I think its fair to say that it is almost certain changes will be made, in atleast some ways, over time.
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