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mkint
1412
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Posted - 2017.01.26 19:17:36 -
[31] - Quote
Helios Grim wrote:The potential that I could lose the carrier has already been WELL explained and the risks involved. Aside from Lulu, I have not received remotely any help from any of you. I asked for help and I got nothing but criticism and insults. This conversation is now over, and I hope none of you respond to other pilots in this way. The criticisms are valid. The perceived insults are suppositions, as we don't know you personally. The responses of "You're either asking in the wrong section or you are doing something that's a terrible idea" is the correct response to your question. That you haven't supplied information that suggests anything other than the second one being the case, the onus is on you to correct the most logical assumptions. That you don't like that response has no bearing on the validity of the responses.
In fact, the responses given were better advice than the question you asked: "get good first."
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning
2644
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Posted - 2017.01.26 20:28:52 -
[32] - Quote
Helios Grim wrote:...I have not received remotely any help from any of you. You most certainly have - you simply didn't like it or choose to recognize it.
Helios Grim wrote: This conversation is now over... "close your ears" if you wish, does not change any facts. Good luck.
Helios Grim wrote:...I hope none of you respond to other pilots in this way. Actually people have been fairly nice to you in their responses. If you are so easily offended by these NCQ&A forum responses, one wonders how you react to things such as loss and/or local smack ingame. I invite you to post this same thread in the general discussion or even ships & modules subforums and compare the responses you get there with what you have received here.
EvE security zones in pictures
EvE quick reference pdf
EvE links
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1880
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Posted - 2017.01.27 02:28:33 -
[33] - Quote
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:
TL;dr: OK, bad wording on my part. EVE encourages Pay-to-Win carrier pilots and the hilarious drama it causes.
There is no bound to character, bound to account, bound on equip or bound on pick up loot in EVE, most games I know have this concept to some extent. Usually you canGÇÖt buy GÇ£endgameGÇ¥ stuff with ingame currency and you canGÇÖt buy ingame currency with real money from the company running the game either. In a lot of games the best equipment drops from raids and endbosses, is quite rare and binds to the player picking it up. Or at least to the first account using the item. And is it absolutely not common that you can buy skills and GÇ£higlevelGÇ¥ characters for ingame and by proxy real money either. ThatGÇÖs because most games try to pretend there was no GÇ£pay to winGÇ¥ option and the best stuff can only be reached by the best players.
EVE is different. If you are willing to risk your money you are welcome to do so. You are not forced to grind raids until stuff drops, you are not forced to gather experience points until you reach the highest level, you can just buy everything. All you need is either time or money.
Oh ok now I understand what you are saying. I totally see your point with the exception of you putting the blame on CCP and vets looking for easy KMs. I'll explain... But first I want to say that I think that us vets and CCP out of our way to try and explain it but new players just don't believe us because it goes against everything they learned in other games.
Yes Eve is different in many ways. First off there is no end game in Eve so your comment about not having to grind raid bosses for end game gear is at best a moot point and more likely just completely mis-guided. No ship in Eve is any better than any other ship. Each ship has it's uses and everything in Eve is situational.
In other games a level 90 character doesn't even have a chance against a level 100 character and a character with a gearscore a couple hundred points higher has exponential factors of power over a lower geared player. In Eve a carrier is not better than a BS or even a cruiser or a frig it's just different. In Eve people don't fly cruisers because they can't afford battleships they fly cruisers to do stuff that cruisers do well and fly battleships for stuff that battleships do well. A very new player in a very small cheap ship can get under the guns of a very high skill point character in a very expensively fit Battleship and pwn him. You will never see a level 10 beating a level 100 in WoW.
I think that there are a few more points about Eve that you are missing:
First there is no structured anything in Eve. We have no instanced content that is balanced for a fixed number of players of a fixed level. You can run a level 4 mission by yourself or you can run one with 200 of your closest friends. On top of that anyone else can bring 400 of their closest friends into your mission space to join you. A corpmate of mine was solo belt ratting in a T1 cruiser that was cheaply fit because we had a cloaky camper in local and he didn't want to mine so he decided to rat in something not worth hot dropping on. The camper decided to drop him anyway and the fleet that came in had 9 super capitals. That is 3 Titans and 6 Moms plus a handful of smaller ships just to take out one, **** fit, cruiser. It was a hilarious loss mail!
Note in the above story it was the smaller ships that came with the supers that killed him. The supers weren't there to add power to kill him, they were more just bait to try and escalate the situation. My point with that story is the old saying in Eve that if you were involved in a fair fight something went horribly wrong.
Big ships have a difficult time hitting small ships. Bigger is not better. The most followed statistic in PvP in Eve is probably kill efficiency which is isk value of the ships that you have lost versus the ships that you have destroyed. The point of Eve is doing more with less.
Also you can deadspace fit your ratting ship and get better isk / hour but when you loose one it costs a lot more to replace. So often you'll wind up more cash flow positive if you just fly T2 fit ships. Thus more expensive ( read that as decked out in purples ) is not necessarily better.
But probably the main point with regards to this is that what you are flying and how it's fit is far less of a determining factor on outcomes than is player knowledge. What you know is an exponentially bigger factor in this game than in most others. You can find all kinds of examples of experienced players, on very low skill point characters, and in very cheaply fit ships beating multiple, much higher skill point characters in T2 ships with more expensive fits.
Gregorius Goldstein wrote: Perhaps I have just a bit more GÇ£SchadenfreudeGÇ¥ than you assumed.
I had to look up what it meant but now that I know I'll say probably not. This is Eve after all and one of the favorite pastimes in Eve is surfing killboards for LOL KMs. |
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2503
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Posted - 2017.01.27 03:57:36 -
[34] - Quote
Lulu Lunette wrote:You didn't post in the wrong channel. And to you regulars, this isn't GD. If you really can't just answer the question or post something constructive.. well basically just get bent. 99/100 posts in NCQA are helpful, however no effort how do I capital posts deserve whatever they get.
The first two results on google for "eve online carrier ratting" have a ton of info and are: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4h9gzo/the_quick_and_dirty_carrier_ratting_guide/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Slq-aVS4_w
Plus there is always the option to go on sisi and try it out.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Wander Prian
Art Of Explosions Hole Control
371
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Posted - 2017.01.27 11:06:44 -
[35] - Quote
Helios Grim wrote:The potential that I could lose the carrier has already been WELL explained and the risks involved. Aside from Lulu, I have not received remotely any help from any of you. I asked for help and I got nothing but criticism and insults. This conversation is now over, and I hope none of you respond to other pilots in this way.
First warning-sign was the fact that you were asking about carriers in this forum. Not the ship&modules, where fitting-questions usually go. The next was the fact that you are in a NPC-corporation and haven't been in a large nullsec-corporation at all. Then your wording suggested that you haven't actually done any reading up on capital ship mechanics, which all combined just leads to a quick loss of a carrier and you rage-quitting the game due to nobody warning you how difficult it is.
Could I have made my point less bluntly, sure, but I like saying things like they are. After all the discussion here, I'm still standing by my first opinion.
You shouldn't get a carrier until you go read up on capital ship mechanics.
Wormholer for life.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
3887
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Posted - 2017.01.27 11:14:11 -
[36] - Quote
i gave solid advice on how to delay you killing my Angel friends, just saying is all
Alliance Logo Design Service
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Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
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Chihuahuaraffe
University of Caille Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2017.01.27 16:59:11 -
[37] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Capitals REQUIRE experience in-game to be used with any degree of safety. Well, the same is also true of T1 frigates, it's only a matter of scale.
You can always offer to be a Personal Capital Training Instructor for the small sum of, say, five billion isk per month, and help redistribute their wealth a bit :)
And besides, exploding Carriers make the economy go 'round! |
Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
1816
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Posted - 2017.01.28 19:46:55 -
[38] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote: Oh ok now I understand what you are saying. I totally see your point with the exception of you putting the blame on CCP and vets looking for easy KMs. I'll explain... But first I want to say that I think that us vets and CCP out of our way to try and explain it but new players just don't believe us because it goes against everything they learned in other games.
Yes Eve is different in many ways. First off there is no end game in Eve so your comment about not having to grind raid bosses for end game gear is at best a moot point and more likely just completely mis-guided. No ship in Eve is any better than any other ship. Each ship has it's uses and everything in Eve is situational.
In other games a level 90 character doesn't even have a chance against a level 100 character and a character with a gearscore a couple hundred points higher has exponential factors of power over a lower geared player. In Eve a carrier is not better than a BS or even a cruiser or a frig it's just different. In Eve people don't fly cruisers because they can't afford battleships they fly cruisers to do stuff that cruisers do well and fly battleships for stuff that battleships do well. A very new player in a very small cheap ship can get under the guns of a very high skill point character in a very expensively fit Battleship and pwn him. You will never see a level 10 beating a level 100 in WoW.
I think that there are a few more points about Eve that you are missing...
Nice, than we are on the same page as I don't "blame" CCP nor anyone looking for easy killmails. I am even quite fond of the fact that you can buy almost anything in EVE because they made it so that you can blow up nearly everything too.
And I can see the difference between EVE and didn't miss the points you wrote down. I agree with them all. Only thing I wanted to point out is that is a bit funny that people are "OMG where do all those new carrier wannabe pilots come from" in a game that offers a fast track. Is it stupid to take the fast track? Abolutely! Is it a wonder that it keeps happening? Not so much. Should you warn players even when they didn't ask for it and are adamant to go for it. Up to dabate. |
Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
1816
|
Posted - 2017.01.28 19:49:19 -
[39] - Quote
Chihuahuaraffe wrote: You can always offer to be a Personal Capital Training Instructor for the small sum of, say, five billion isk per month, and help redistribute their wealth a bit :) And besides, exploding Carriers make the economy go 'round!
Yes, my point exactly. If anyone ask if something is risky one should give good advice, if someone wants to undock nice stuff why would one interfere?
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