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Moonaru Izu
Caldari I.Z.U Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:03:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Moonaru Izu on 27/05/2007 07:03:19 I'm one of the people actively following the changes on Sisi w.r.t the stealth bombers and the new bombs. The thread where they are discussed is linkage
In one of the feedback posts by Dev Fendahl in this thread (Dev post) is some information regarding cloaks and them being detectable by probes .
This is, as far as I know, completely new information that was not shared before. If true, it can and will be a major concern of many players, judging from the many threads on cloaking and the heated dicussions on them (hehe I used heat aswell )
I felt that this tidbit of information should not remain tucked away in the aforementioned thread but should have some broader attention. As it is not on TQ yet I thought this was the best place to discuss it.
I really hope one of the devs (Fendahl?) can provide some more comments and details on this one soon(the non-tm version of it, as in "really soon") because I forsee that the tin-fold-hat division will take over soon.
Now, to all of us forum warriors. Before we all jump to conclusions I really think we should wait for a comment and further explanation from the Dev team. I'm only interested in the facts and not in yet another 23 page thread with assumptions, whinage and complaining on cloaks. We have enough of those. When we know the facts then we can make up our mind if we like it or not..
So please Dev team, provide some more details on this.
@Fendahl: I hope you do not feel bad or put on the spot by me making this post because that is not my intention. I really appreciate your feedback in the other threads and hope this does not influence doing that in the future.
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William Hamilton
Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:58:00 -
[2]
I personally want probes to detect cloaked ships, but not with a high probability of success.
Cloaked ships shouldn't show up on any random scan, so you can't just drop a probe on system entry to check for cloakers. It should be such that you can only find cloakers once they have otherwise confirmed their presence.
Also, nerf local
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.05.27 08:09:00 -
[3]
I like how he's (Fendahl) has already edited it out of his post lol.
Because I said so...
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet
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Posted - 2007.05.27 08:19:00 -
[4]
For those of you who missed it, here's the quote that was removed:
Originally by: CCP Fendahl The next patch also makes it possible to detect cloaked ships with scan probes, so the BS fleet could have its scouts scan for hidden surprises.
I've said it elsewhere, but I'll say it again. Covert ops frigates and recon cruisers should NEVER be detected until (and if) they decide to deloak. Anything else completely defeats the purpose of cloaking. Even a low chance for success is unacceptable, since it just turns it into a roll of the dice with nothing you can do to change the odds.
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Moonaru Izu
Caldari I.Z.U Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.05.27 09:42:00 -
[5]
Originally by: murder one I like how he's (Fendahl) has already edited it out of his post lol.
hmm..as far as I can see it is still there...
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Ronzo Walrus
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.05.27 10:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Moonaru Izu
Originally by: murder one I like how he's (Fendahl) has already edited it out of his post lol.
hmm..as far as I can see it is still there...
Ditto, I can still see it
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Mephysto
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Posted - 2007.05.27 10:48:00 -
[7]
This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here).
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.27 10:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Anything else completely defeats the purpose of cloaking.
Unless the purpose of cloaking is hiding afk for oyu it won't do much there. Although it would be a good idea to give the result for a cloaked ship a 10k inaccurancy so you can can out easier before they manage to uncloak you.
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Blue Pixie
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Posted - 2007.05.27 11:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mephysto This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here).
And as I asked in the strategic weapons thread, I presume cloaked pilots will still appear in local chat? Yes? No?
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ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.27 11:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Blue Pixie
Originally by: Mephysto This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here).
And as I asked in the strategic weapons thread, I presume cloaked pilots will still appear in local chat? Yes? No?
Yes.
If you want to help test them you can log onto sisi after the next update
I will be testing it myself If i can find a cloaker to scan out Need to test the accuracy of the probes. As well as the different cloaks, (aka the different between covert ops cloak, and t1 cloak) and how easy it is to find someone once you warp to the scan results.
Make Mining Better |
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.27 12:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mephysto This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here).
So, now you're telling me that a solo pvper who's flying a recon around looking for targets and starts to get chased by a big gang can't use his cloak to avoid getting ganked to hell and back in a RECON ship, which is DESIGNED to cloak and remain undetected?
Also, a covert ops frigate which is designed to remain cloaked for COVERT OPERATIONS can be detected by being probed out?
Congratulations, you're looking to create more mini professions in Eve, and have effectively just completely destroyed covert ops scouting.
What a complete and utter pile of crap.
>>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
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Voltas Stormtide
The Praxis Initiative FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.27 13:08:00 -
[12]
An Alternative to probing out cloakers that we all can live with:
A new module is implemented called the mobile cloak disruptor - it comes in T1 and T2 variants, costs 20ish mill for the cheapest. They work simillarly to mobile warp disruptors, but affect cloaked vessels (does not work on ships that are cloaked after jumping through a gate). Any cloaked ship that enters the area of effect is immediately uncloaked. The bubble wouldn't have the same pull in affect as the warp disruptor bub.
The usage would be for example: 1) Set up a mining op with this as the centrepiece and you have some protection from cloakers. They are still free to roam about cloaked elsewhere of course. 2) gate camps - prevent cov-ops and recons escaping
They wouldnt have too many hit points, but would have a small sig radius meaning best bet is to collaborate with friends to destroy them.
Their cost is such that they won't get thrown up at any occasion.
The T1 variant would have a radius of perhaps 70km, the T2 one; 100km.
It's only an idea - but I think it satisfies the people who are ****ed off by what some people can get out of their cloaking ships, yet it doesn't nerf the load out of those people who have spent weeks/months specialising in their ship of choice
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.27 13:10:00 -
[13]
You people seem to think that probing = automatically decloaking. It isn't.
For example, a cov ops scouting an enemy blob at a gate. They probe me. If I am careful not go get more than 150k away from the gate all they can do is approaching the position I was at that moment. Where I am moving with 500 m/s away constantly. Oh noes. Whatever will I do? Even if they have 10km/s ceptors which move at once to that location I'll be already 5k away from it when they arrive. Good luck finding me. Nevermind that I can also warp to a spot on the other side of the gate (assuming I am halfway prepared) as soon as I see one of them moving towards me.
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hjjjugguu
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Posted - 2007.05.27 13:16:00 -
[14]
Can the devs please add more info. Looking at dev posts we can only say "recons, covto ops ships and cloaking module will become as useful as an auto targeter.
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Korben Morat
Caldari Special Circumstances.
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Posted - 2007.05.27 13:44:00 -
[15]
what a pile of crud.
I guess recon and covet ops pilots like myself are left high and dry.
Next time I have to step away from my computer for 5 minutes I should log out right? Well with the changes to recon probes, even doing that means that i may log back in in a pod.
Next time I'm solo in 0.0 in my pilgrim I'm just going to get probed into oblivion, I may as well forget about entering 0.0 unless I have a fleet behind me? What do you seriously think you're doing? There has to be space for the solo player to enter 0.0? The people that you have been listening to on the forums are IDIOTS. I saw someone making a point about a single pilot in a covert ops stopping him from ratting... wtf? If he rats in a pvp setup or has some friends nearby, where's the problem?
Covert ops should be countered by other covert ops, not numbers. All this change does is bring in the need for a 'silent running' mode on cloaked ships where they can't be scanned for (because the pilot is afk taking a dump), maybe this would be like siege mode where you can't move or do anything else until the end of silent running mode cycle. Actually ignore hat, the problem here is allowing cloaked ships to be scanned for.
You guys have reacted to a bunch of idiots on the forum (and you know what it's probably about 5 people on the forum with multiple accounts posting) who can't use their 20 man gang to gank a single ratter.
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mystic proton
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Posted - 2007.05.27 13:46:00 -
[16]
Of course, you'll be changing the ship class names then from "covops & recons" to "worthless & worthlesser" appropriately, right?
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hjjjugguu
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Posted - 2007.05.27 14:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: mystic proton Of course, you'll be changing the ship class names then from "covops & recons" to "worthless & worthlesser" appropriately, right?
Don't forget inversion will be reclassed "why did I waste my time developing this. No ones looking for any sites". Maybe covops ships are are useful as a auto targeter. This has not been thought out at all.
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paulcdb
Gallente Ascent of Ages Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.27 14:05:00 -
[18]
I agree this is a baaaad idea and while it'll still be fairly hard to pin down a covert ops ships as such because you can just keep moving, the problem is going to be when you NEED to be sat still gathering intel, like hostile pos's, stations, gates, etc...
If you have to concentrate on being scanned, it means you can no longer do the job of intel gathering because you have to constantly be moving, looking around for people heading in your direction, etc.
And at the end of the day it's crazy to give in to some people who just want risk free ganks
I really enjoy eve but i don't like the way it's going, where spamming whine posts = nerf'd!
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Wizzkidy
Demonic Retribution Pure.
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Posted - 2007.05.27 14:17:00 -
[19]
Originally by: paulcdb And at the end of the day it's crazy to give in to some people who just want risk free ganks
It's not just that though is it, they are implimenting this so scouts can scan out cloaked stealth bombers to look for traps
if you didn't have it it would be too easy to lay a trap and pwn a gang.
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xeom
Exit 13 Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.27 14:30:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Mephysto This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here).
So, now you're telling me that a solo pvper who's flying a recon around looking for targets and starts to get chased by a big gang can't use his cloak to avoid getting ganked to hell and back in a RECON ship, which is DESIGNED to cloak and remain undetected?
Also, a covert ops frigate which is designed to remain cloaked for COVERT OPERATIONS can be detected by being probed out?
Congratulations, you're looking to create more mini professions in Eve, and have effectively just completely destroyed covert ops scouting.
What a complete and utter pile of crap.
What V said. --- The chairman has spoken!
-Videos- Viciously Delicious New! Non-Entity
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El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar FSK23
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Posted - 2007.05.27 14:32:00 -
[21]
Edited by: El''essar Viocragh on 27/05/2007 14:31:29 I see a big problem here with exploration to be honest.
You need to stay in space in low/no sec space for hours for some sites. You need the covops, as those have the 10% scan bonus. You need the cloak or you are toast. Exploration sites get multiplayer once they are found, not while being searched.
And, while probe scans are active, you can not warp as it invalidates your scan. In the quest probe phase this is not a big problem, those are active 1 hour - you have the time to cycle spots between scans.
But once you are, for example, down to sift range, it gets hairy. It is already very skill heavy to get 2 scans out of one probe, you barely have time to warp inbetween these two scans. You need to come back to that point often too. So laying a trap with snoops isn't really hard anymore I think. They live long and you get a lot of scans with the recon launchers low scan time.
Somewhat still manageable. And now let me introduce you, the rookie explorer in lowsec, with an astrometrics frig and a prototype cloak. Yes, pwned.
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Darpz
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.05.27 14:39:00 -
[22]
as long as its dificult and takes time to scan the cloaked ship it should be fine (based on the type of cloak, protos should be fairly basic improveds somewhat hard and coverts take alot of time and skill).
also just make it so coverts have a low accuracy when you probe them (50km or so) so if someone was dedicated to getting that cloaked recon they can but there going to have to spend alot of time sweeping space to get it to uncloak
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hUssmann
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.27 14:59:00 -
[23]
Edited by: hUssmann on 27/05/2007 14:58:20
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Mephysto This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here).
So, now you're telling me that a solo pvper who's flying a recon around looking for targets and starts to get chased by a big gang can't use his cloak to avoid getting ganked to hell and back in a RECON ship, which is DESIGNED to cloak and remain undetected?
Also, a covert ops frigate which is designed to remain cloaked for COVERT OPERATIONS can be detected by being probed out?
Congratulations, you're looking to create more mini professions in Eve, and have effectively just completely destroyed covert ops scouting.
What a complete and utter pile of crap.
Agreed, What a bunch of*****.
*Shakes Head*
Ginger Magician > You are merely an effective ganker of haulers who runs at the first sign of combat. |
TZeer
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.05.27 16:04:00 -
[24]
Nice to see CCP give more power to the blobs.. way to go CCP.
It seems whining works.
And with this, what will the point in a cloak be then?
What range can you scan it down with? How close will you be when you get out of warp?
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.05.27 16:06:00 -
[25]
WoW your all very dense you cares if they know your there????????? you in local allready?
and what would happen if you have a big gang on top of you! oh noes!!!
err
they can't SEE YOU they can't LOCK YOU
in case you were wondering why the dev's have been ignoring you :P
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.05.27 16:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Aramendel You people seem to think that probing = automatically decloaking. It isn't.
For example, a cov ops scouting an enemy blob at a gate. They probe me. If I am careful not go get more than 150k away from the gate all they can do is approaching the position I was at that moment. Where I am moving with 500 m/s away constantly. Oh noes. Whatever will I do? Even if they have 10km/s ceptors which move at once to that location I'll be already 5k away from it when they arrive. Good luck finding me. Nevermind that I can also warp to a spot on the other side of the gate (assuming I am halfway prepared) as soon as I see one of them moving towards me.
yay someone that doesn't just get mad because something is chaging and thinks for a moment!
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Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.27 16:09:00 -
[27]
Ughhhhhaa!!!
I actuley wanted them to fix cloaks so they were not overpowered in the sence that you could switch them on and go afk for 12 hours while your mere presence in local disrupts enemy operations.
I was thinking of a probe that takes ~10 minutes or more to find a cloaked ship, not this rubbish. This is all we need - something that takes ages, and isent very good, it doesent have to be - the mere knowledge of its existance eliminates the problem, if people dident know with 100% certainty that SSed + cloaked = invunerable then it would stop the process of people ganking, then cloaking+going afk for hours, THAT is the only issue with cloaks imho.
This is overpowered, and not required.
-
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Quartz Mine
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Posted - 2007.05.27 16:12:00 -
[28]
This better be just 'you have detected x amount of cloaked ships in the system' and give no location information on them. Right? right?
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.27 16:20:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Aramendel You people seem to think that probing = automatically decloaking. It isn't.
For example, a cov ops scouting an enemy blob at a gate. They probe me. If I am careful not go get more than 150k away from the gate all they can do is approaching the position I was at that moment. Where I am moving with 500 m/s away constantly. Oh noes. Whatever will I do? Even if they have 10km/s ceptors which move at once to that location I'll be already 5k away from it when they arrive. Good luck finding me. Nevermind that I can also warp to a spot on the other side of the gate (assuming I am halfway prepared) as soon as I see one of them moving towards me.
Unless a cloak means a high enough cut in signal size so that a snoop can't get a 0m acc hit then going afk for 3-4 min is enough to get killed even if you are moving 500m/sec.
You get a 0m hit, warp there, start a new scan, get a new 0m hit. You now know exactly what direction he is moving towards. Get the ceptor in and voila, decloaked in around 2-3 min. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Max Hardcase
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.05.27 16:40:00 -
[30]
Keep in mind that the Coverts have a small sig radius and BS scan strength, scan results on them would be fairly inaccurate.
Recons however have sig radius about 20-30% higher than normal cruisers and are usually in the 25-30 range for scan res, so a fair bit easier to get accurate results for.
Just keep your afk ship flying in a random direction and by the time they get to your old position you are already a fair bit further away.
I wouldnt mind if cov ops cloaks get a bonus to sig radius once active though. Makes your ship harder to scan out then.
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