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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.11 09:07:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Tamia Clant Ahh, so it's a nerf to drone-ships coming up then? I sense much whineage on the forums!
Pretty much. This does fix the issue with relaunching and rescooping abandoned drones to get more drones active than your bay can hold. The only other thing this would do is let CCP restrict ships to their size class of drone. Perhaps Vexors and Myrmidons will be restricted to medium drones. That's sure to cause some upset.
This is a good thing, but then the modifier where a uncontrolled scooped drone don't use your ship bonus and probably not even the character bonus, even if it is a drone that you have lost before to a DC or a warp, should be removed.
It was introduced to avoid the maneuver you describe, but now it become redundant and counterproductive.
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49125
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Posted - 2007.09.11 09:36:00 -
[32]
Edited by: 49125 on 11/09/2007 09:36:03
Quote: What are you babbling on about, where is there a nerf here?
Jesus, these forums sometimes...
The delivery sucked but speaking to the heart of the change, the poster you quoted is correct - its a (general) nerf. Every single element of a game such as Eve that promotes diversity *must* by definition nerf min/maxing. Given the existing structure supports min/maxing ...
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Laah T'Sin
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Posted - 2007.09.11 09:47:00 -
[33]
Well the way this sounds atm I can only hope that CCP reduces the damage modifier of guns and ROF on missiles at the same time they start reducing the amount of drones in the system. Would be the end of drone boats if you can only fly them in low-lag systems... especially because there simply are no low-lag systems in EVE.
But let's see what CCP is actually planning before crying.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.11 09:48:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Laah T'Sin Well the way this sounds atm I can only hope that CCP reduces the damage modifier of guns and ROF on missiles at the same time they start reducing the amount of drones in the system. Would be the end of drone boats if you can only fly them in low-lag systems... especially because there simply are no low-lag systems in EVE.
But let's see what CCP is actually planning before crying.
They aren't doing that, stop crying ffs and read my post just above her.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.11 10:00:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 11/09/2007 10:01:41 Here is the dev blog quote
"About time" is probably the first thing that comes to mind. Not only are we improving the interface, we're working on the logic behind them. This should hopefully lead to them being more consistent in control and abolish their free will. Assist and Guard are new commands coming in, we're getting lots of new named drones and we're adding a new constraint on drones, bandwidth. With this, bandwidth determines the number of drones you can control, allowing the dronebay to be considerably increased on drone ships, accommodating more waves or variety. Ubar? Ja!
So basicall all that is being said is
1. Named drones are coming in 2. To use named drones, no doubt people want bigger drone bays 3. Bigger drone bays will mean vexors and arbritator can field 5 ogre II 4. To balance bigger dronebays, introduce something called drone bandwith to stop 15 arbitrators with 5 ogre II's from ganking a freightor! Bandwith is basically there to make sure you can release as many drones in the future as you can today, since future dronebays are going to get bigger. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.11 10:03:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 11/09/2007 10:01:41 Here is the dev blog quote
"About time" is probably the first thing that comes to mind. Not only are we improving the interface, we're working on the logic behind them. This should hopefully lead to them being more consistent in control and abolish their free will. Assist and Guard are new commands coming in, we're getting lots of new named drones and we're adding a new constraint on drones, bandwidth. With this, bandwidth determines the number of drones you can control, allowing the dronebay to be considerably increased on drone ships, accommodating more waves or variety. Ubar? Ja!
So basicall all that is being said is
1. Named drones are coming in 2. To use named drones, no doubt people want bigger drone bays 3. Bigger drone bays will mean vexors and arbritator can field 5 ogre II 4. To balance bigger dronebays, introduce something called drone bandwith to stop 15 arbitrators with 5 ogre II's from ganking a freightor! Bandwith is basically there to make sure you can release as many drones in the future as you can today, since future dronebays are going to get bigger.
Stop making so much sense it confuses the plebs.
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Miriyana
Gallente Legions of Derek
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Posted - 2007.09.11 10:03:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Miriyana on 11/09/2007 10:05:26 You can still control the same number of the type of drones as now (max 5 I still imagine). But just carry more spare:
Pre patch: Vagabond : 25m^3 original drone bay = 5 lights, 2 meds or 1 heavy
Post patch: Vagabond : 50m^3 new drone bay = 10 lights, 5 meds or 2 heavy
But still only able to launch 5 lights, 2 meds or 1 heavy as originally the case.
I for one welcome our new drone overlords....(3m sp in drones <3) - - - - - - Change just leads to more problems
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Oh please no, I've had enough with real world taxes, and dealing with the tax agency. No more taxes!!
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.11 10:15:00 -
[38]
I'm so happy!
I'm guessing that this is specifically a fix to the problem that became apparent with the release of the Myrmidon. The problem was that it really NEEDED 4 Heavy drones in order to be competitive. But due to the nature of drones, if you gave it a drone bay only big enough for 4x Heavies, it'd be useless (they'd get popped immediately, leaving it gimped). But giving it a bigger drone bay would mean substantially boosting its DPS, making it too good.
The solution they came up with was OK, but not exactly optimal. They gave it a Drone bay big enough to field 5, giving it a higher than perfect DPS at the start of a given fight, with absolutely no room for replacements, meaning that it lacked the primary good point about drone boats (versatility).
The ideal solution would have been to limit it to being able to field 4x Heavy drones, but at the same time give it a whole bay full of replacements (giving it a DPS similar to the rest of the BCs, but far more flexible and sustainable like all the other drone boats).
If I understand "bandwidth", thats exactly what it does. It gives a hard limitation on what drones can be flown at a given point that isn't tied to drone bay size. This means that a drone ship can have room for replacements without necessarily having it boosted to the maximum possible damage output.
This should mean much more flexibility for the Devs to balance and design Drone ships exactly how they want them. Thus good. ------
Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts! |
Leneerra
Minmatar Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.11 10:29:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Leneerra on 11/09/2007 10:29:57 I think it is also a response to the complaints thet there is no downside, or so called increased fitting requirement for t2 drones I expect t2 drone to require more bandwith than t1 ones of the same class. So a ship that may currently have 50m3 drone space is likely to be able to field 5 med t1 drones with its bandwith, but not 5 t2 ones. in addition it's drone bay can be increased to allow replacement of alternates without increasing its drone damage potential.
I do expect modules and rigs to boost bandwith eventually, just like they exist for grid and cpu but maybe not released immedeately. things have to be ballanced and seen in practice before tweaking can occur afterall.
In all I think it can be a great addition to eve, allowing more versatility, while also limiting some of the excesses. edit, remove some spelling errors
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.09.11 10:53:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Chribba WTB: Drone Bandwidth Upgrade Modules in order to launch omgbbqwtf amount of Civilian Mining Drones.
For some strange reason I belive they will not remove the drone cap set by drone skill and advanced drone control units... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Blood Corsair's The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.09.11 11:07:00 -
[41]
Can we get this thread locked?
[Video]Blood Corsairs - Day One |
Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.11 11:08:00 -
[42]
This is all very interesting. As others have said, the great advantage of this is to decouple "drones-in-space" and drone bay size. This should enable non-droneboats to carry backup light drones, whilst preventing them from deploying mediums/heavies, and effectively restrict droneboats to drones of a particular size, in exchage for the ability to field replacements.
As such, it might act as a slight nerf to the slightly overpowered Myrm - preventing it from deploying 5 Ogre IIs and dishing out ~900 DPS. Instead, it might be able to deploy 5 Hammerhead IIs (or maybe 2 Ogres and 3 Hammerheads, whatever), whilst having plenty of med drones in reserve to make up for the loss of DPS. That would also reduce the signficance of the annoying "deploy drones - apply dampers - rescoop - instant miraculous shield repair - redeploy" trick.
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.09.11 11:15:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2007 11:16:26 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2007 11:15:55
It's a buff to drone ships most likely, since I see the bandwidth staying the same and drone bays increasing.
Then again, if bandwidth decreases by a small amount, they'll stay alright. It just might render the 'shoot drones' tactic less useful, since there *may* be massive room for replacements if they increase drone bays. Could we at least then get rid of the scoop & redeploy trick?
I didn't know drone-ships were in need of help, but oh well
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Soratah
Amarr The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.09.11 11:31:00 -
[44]
I blame Goonswarm for this drone buff.
It's obvious that their fleets attacking BoB were using Smart Bombing battleships to wipe out BoB's drone swarm.
Grr damn you Goons for using an effective tactic that forces the devs to change it so you will lose.
On the other hand, may have lots of use of EW and Logistics drones now.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Blood Corsair's The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.09.11 11:32:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2007 11:16:26 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2007 11:15:55
It's a buff to drone ships most likely, since I see the bandwidth staying the same and drone bays increasing.
Then again, if bandwidth decreases by a small amount, they'll stay alright. It just might render the 'shoot drones' tactic less useful, since there *may* be massive room for replacements if they increase drone bays. Could we at least then get rid of the scoop & redeploy trick?
I didn't know drone-ships were in need of help, but oh well
The only ships this will help are those with small drone bays. That is: non-drone ships, and possibly the Myrmidon.
But with all the whining going on, I don't see the devs giving the Myrm *more* drone bay space (they could have when they made it, and they didn't) and let it keep it's 5x heavies in the air.
I predict that they reduce it's allowed drones in space to 4x heavies or 3x, and increase it's drone bay space. The Myrm will see a big nerf with Rev3.
Mostly due to lame sniveling whiners like yourself. Personally I can't stand the Myrm. No backup for it's 5x Heavies, no additional drone groups if you use 5x Heavies, no gun bonus. It's a lousy drone ship. It's DPS is going to get nerfed for Rev3. Bandwidth has been custom designed to do just that.
[Video]Blood Corsairs - Day One |
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.09.11 11:48:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2007 11:50:16
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2007 11:16:26 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2007 11:15:55
It's a buff to drone ships most likely, since I see the bandwidth staying the same and drone bays increasing.
Then again, if bandwidth decreases by a small amount, they'll stay alright. It just might render the 'shoot drones' tactic less useful, since there *may* be massive room for replacements if they increase drone bays. Could we at least then get rid of the scoop & redeploy trick?
I didn't know drone-ships were in need of help, but oh well
The only ships this will help are those with small drone bays. That is: non-drone ships, and possibly the Myrmidon.
But with all the whining going on, I don't see the devs giving the Myrm *more* drone bay space (they could have when they made it, and they didn't) and let it keep it's 5x heavies in the air.
I predict that they reduce it's allowed drones in space to 4x heavies or 3x, and increase it's drone bay space. The Myrm will see a big nerf with Rev3.
Mostly due to lame sniveling whiners like yourself. Personally I can't stand the Myrm. No backup for it's 5x Heavies, no additional drone groups if you use 5x Heavies, no gun bonus. It's a lousy drone ship. It's DPS is going to get nerfed for Rev3. Bandwidth has been custom designed to do just that.
I'm not whining about the Myrm how it is now. Do you see me whine? Have you, in fact, ever seen me whine about the Myrmidon?
I'm am just stating that MOST LIKELY, if you actually read the blog, it will get an increase in total dronebay. I strongly suspect it WILL be able to field a full wave of T2 heavies AND replacements. Which is something I wouldn't like, but oh well.
Basically, I predict a significant Myrmidon buff. However, I didn't call you a snivelling whiner because you predicted differently.
I do think that it is a bad idea to give most non-droneships more replacements for their drones, since shooting down the damn things will work much worse. Which only does really work against total muppets (who don't scoop & redeploy) or at longer range.
From the blog, it appears that: (a) ships will be able to have more replacements / variety (b) ships will be able to field the same amount of drones
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Gawain Hill
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Posted - 2007.09.11 11:52:00 -
[47]
ok i can't be bothered to read everyones posts here cause i don't think anyone acctually read teh blog from the first few posts i read
1) drone bays will probably be made bigger
2) bandwidth will be the new limitation on how many drones can be out (drone ships will still be able to spew out 5 and all those gallente will have a bigger advantage than everyone else when using drones)
this is not a nerf to drone boats but a nerf to everyone who isn't a drone boat
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Wild Rho
Amarr Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.09.11 11:52:00 -
[48]
Think of bandwidth as the drones equivalent of cpu/powergrid.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Blood Corsair's The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.09.11 11:55:00 -
[49]
No way will the devs give the Myrm *more* drone bay space *and* keep the number/size of drones able to be used the same as current (i.e. 5x heavy).
If they would, they would have already. If they did, I might actually fly one. But they won't. No way will they buff it.
I do agree that for most other ships, probably all other ships, they're going to have their current number/size of flyable drones remain the same, while their drone bay is increased some.
This will be hard on smaller ships trying to kill large ships solo, and somewhat remove the advantages of ships like the Dominix, Eos and Ishtar with their larger drone bays, unless theirs is increased even more than it is currently. Which I don't think will happen.
[Video]Blood Corsairs - Day One |
William Alex
Viscosity
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Posted - 2007.09.11 12:05:00 -
[50]
Originally by: bsspewer does this mean motherships will be able to deploy 20 fighters or 500 light hobgoblins?
hehehe 500 lights ftw!!! Motherships doing 10kdps would be sweeeet
Please give us a 1 depth skill queue CCP.
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.09.11 12:55:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 11/09/2007 13:09:43
Originally by: 49125 Edited by: 49125 on 11/09/2007 09:36:03
Quote: What are you babbling on about, where is there a nerf here?
Jesus, these forums sometimes...
The delivery sucked but speaking to the heart of the change, the poster you quoted is correct - its a (general) nerf. Every single element of a game such as Eve that promotes diversity *must* by definition nerf min/maxing. Given the existing structure supports min/maxing ...
The damage output will not change. There is no nerf, you will be fielding the same number and type of drones as before (well Myrmidon might not ), but with spares.
So tell me again, where is there a nerf? ----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.09.11 12:57:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Can we get this thread locked?
QFT.
Far too many dense people screaming "OMG it's a nerf!!1111" or complaining about their dial-up connections being at a disadvantage... ----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
proffen
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Posted - 2007.09.11 12:59:00 -
[53]
Edited by: proffen on 11/09/2007 13:03:09 Best way is to use a well known cruiser as example.
Today it have 50m3 drone bay, it can launch 2 heavies or 5 mediums or 5 small in space due to the size restrictions of the drone bay.
now if we increase the drone bay to 200m3, it could technically lauch 5 heavies to, but they put in a new restriction "bandwidth" to ensure that even if the cruiser now can fit more then 5 heavies in their bays they can not launch mor then 2 at the time in space.
So drones in space froma ship remains the same even if it can carry more along with them.
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Arrs Grazznic
FireStar Inc FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.11 13:42:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Leneerra I think it is also a response to the complaints thet there is no downside, or so called increased fitting requirement for t2 drones I expect t2 drone to require more bandwith than t1 ones of the same class. So a ship that may currently have 50m3 drone space is likely to be able to field 5 med t1 drones with its bandwith, but not 5 t2 ones. in addition it's drone bay can be increased to allow replacement of alternates without increasing its drone damage potential.
I do expect modules and rigs to boost bandwith eventually, just like they exist for grid and cpu but maybe not released immedeately. things have to be ballanced and seen in practice before tweaking can occur afterall.
In all I think it can be a great addition to eve, allowing more versatility, while also limiting some of the excesses.
I like the planned change -- it offers a lot of versatility to drone boats and I think will provide a boost to all ships with drone bays.
As Leneerra mentioned above, I would expect T2 drones to require more bandwidth, while named drones require less. I would also think that there may be skills to increase base bandwidth and maybe also to reduce drone bandwidth needs, i.e with maxed skills you will still be able to field 5 heavy T2s.
This change also opens up the game for further mods and rigs. You can get rigs and mods to increase bandwidth or reduce drone bandwidth needs. You could also get mods / rigs to increase drone bay size.
I do agree with other posters that this change has been brought in partly to address the Myrmidon. The reason it got a 125m3 drone bay was that it was a drone boat, but being able to field 5x Ogre IIs is just too much damage output for a ship of its class. However, I think this may end up buffing the Eos.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
Cheers, Arrs
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.09.11 13:55:00 -
[55]
I actually suspect they will add the bandwith to all ships (or rather change the current bay to bandwith) and add bigger drone bays to all ships that can field drones... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Kaaii
Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.09.11 14:12:00 -
[56]
I like it too...
I think its going to increase the versatility of logistic ships a whole lot (one of my favorite classes).
Currently my basilisk can fit one large repper verity of drone in its meager 25vol bay. Not much call to use them. Five lights and thats it also. Once they are shot down, and they "Always are" its back to being a quick primary once foes realize its not an osprey I've brought...
With an increased drone bay, I could fit EW, light med or heavy repair drones, or even some semblance of protective drones. I mix and match according to my task.
Prolly still be primaried though....
Kaaii
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
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Yao Shiu
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Posted - 2007.09.11 14:48:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Yao Shiu on 11/09/2007 14:48:14
Originally by: Tamia Clant Ahh, so it's a nerf to drone-ships coming up then? I sense much whineage on the forums!
it's no nerf!
you just have more spare drones, so you can change your tactics mid fight should you so wish, or just have replacements... but you will only have the same number of drones actually in space as before.
it's a boost in functionality & versitility!
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Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.09.11 15:19:00 -
[58]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Regarding drone bandwidth, to jump in on Fendahl's feature, this is as many have suggested here, an additional constraint on drones so that the maximum will still be 5 drones as now, but an additional attribute of drone bandwidth will be added, allowing us to remove the necessity to balance ships according to drone bay capacity alone. Many blogs will be incoming over the coming weeks to explain the features in detail as ever.
Always search the dev blog forum thread for "CCP" (with the goal of finding posts by CCP members). ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not. |
Drethon
Gallente Selinir Industries
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Posted - 2007.09.11 16:40:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Draekas Darkwater I posted this in the blog thread, but saw this so anyway:
If I had to make a total guess about how the drones will work it would be this.
Drones will take different amounts of bandwidth to control at once, and each ship will have a maximum bandwith. 5 drones out at once will still be the max.
Small drones will take up 1 bandwidth, meds 3, and heavies 5. The new drones might have better stats, but use more bandwidth each than the regular ones we have currently. Not sure if Tech 2 will cost more bandwidth than tech 1s.
Example ships. Drake and Domi.
The Drake currently has 25m3 of drone bay. Instead, it will have a bandwidth of 5, and perhaps a drone bay of 50 to 75m3. This still caps out the drake pilot at 5 light drones or one heavy, but now he can hold some spares if they die in combat.
Domi currently has 375m3 of drone bay. Instead, it will have a bandwidth of 25 (or possibly higher to accomodate some of the new drones). This will allow it to control 5 heavies at a time. Its drone bay size may well increase to 500m3 or more, to hold multiple waves of drones, or different damage type ones, logistics, webbers, EW, ect.
Of course, that's a total guess, but it does sound good. =D
Hmm, so a Megathron can choose to launch an attack wave of drones or an EM wave of their choice without having to reload drones...
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CCP Hammer
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Posted - 2007.09.11 16:47:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Hllaxiu Edited by: Hllaxiu on 11/09/2007 01:09:27 Basically its a balancing factor for the Arbitrator Hull, Vexor, and Myrmidon. Lets say you only want these two ships to field medium drones. That means that you can realistically have a maximum drone bay of 75m3. This leaves no room for spares - dedicated heavy drone carriers however do get room for spares. If 50m3 of drone bandwidth is assigned to the above ships, their drone bays can be increased without turning them into heavy drone carriers (Ishtar, Dominix).
The Mymridon and Eos are the ships, if any, to receive a nerf out of this change - I expect the nonIshtar cruiser based drone boats to be boosted quite a bit with this change, as they will be able to carry spares now. This will also allow the Myrmidon to be rebalanced against medium drones. Good thing in my opinion.
I realize that the blog said "number of drones" but I'm betting that this is how things are going to end up, one way or another (perhaps a conversion factor between light/medium/heavy drones).
This is fairly spot on. Expect a dev blog about this from the relevant dev before the patch hits. We're not doing this to try and nerf people.
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