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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Lao Cheng
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Posted - 2007.09.11 19:19:00 -
[91]
Hammer don't nerf my Myrmidon or eos or ill fight you, i'll erm use my Myrmidon!
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K al
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Posted - 2007.09.11 19:20:00 -
[92]
looks like ccp just gave gallente a slap in the face 1st nos 2nd drones what next?
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Marux
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Posted - 2007.09.11 19:21:00 -
[93]
Sounds to me like a huge buff, this will allow you to field just as many drones as before, but now you will have the drone bay to fit a set for more than one damage type. Can't wait to see how big the Domi's drone bay gets boosted to
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.09.11 19:21:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Razin
Yeah, I guess drastically reducing Myrm DPS and at the same time making its main weapon eminently more destroyable is pretty fair, after all. It don't need the missing slot.
Less destroyable as you will now be able to carry spares. No it doesn't need the slot because it's not missing, having less total slots is not something unique to the myrmidon, it's something shared with all other drone ships as a balancing factor and it's always highslots which are the least important slots of all that are removed.
It's because drones are your weapons instead of the guns so you do not need as many high slots for weapons. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Marux
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Posted - 2007.09.11 19:22:00 -
[95]
Originally by: K al looks like ccp just gave gallente a slap in the face 1st nos 2nd drones what next?
Not really, even just fixing the drone obedience is a great.
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Malvahne
Dark Knights of Deneb
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Posted - 2007.09.11 19:24:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Malvahne on 11/09/2007 19:26:47 Any ETA on when the changes will hit SiSi? Need to know if I can still use 5 heavy drones with the Eos(have such a nice setup using heavy ewar bots and i'll cry if I no longer can perma ecm/damp my target ).
Please don't take my babies away from me ccp.
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Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.11 19:25:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Alski Agreed, anyone who has run the numbers on all the command ships (i can pritty much cite DPS numbers from memory here) knows that the Eos has THE most suckyest DPS of all the command ships without heavy drones
Oh..what? What?
Firstly, we have *fleet* commands and *field* commands. The eos is a *fleet* command ship and is a such compared vs the other fleet commands. Comparing its dps to *field* commands is about as realistic as comparing the dps of a cov ops of one race with the dps of stealth bombers of another race.
For fleet comamnds we have:
- Damnation with 5 heavy missiles with a range bonus and the option to use 2 unbonused turrets. 25m¦ dronebay. - Vulture with 5 turrets with a double range bonus and 2 unbonussed missile launchers. 25m¦ dronebay. - Claymore with 5 turrets with a ROF and tracking bonus and 2 unbonussed missiles. 40m¦ dronebay.
Aaaand the Eos with 7 turrets with a damage bonus. At (after the nerf) at least 5 medium drones.
It will still outdamage all other fleet commands. It will also have a weak tank, though, but now its tank disadvantage and dps advantage will be balanced vs each other.
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Marux
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Posted - 2007.09.11 19:26:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Malvahne Any ETA on when the changes will hit SiSi? Need to know if I can still use 5 heavy drones with the Eos (have such a nice setup using heavy ewar bots and i'll cry if I no longer can perma ecm/damp my target ).
I would be really surprised if any BC aside from the Myrmidon can field 5 Heavies with this change.
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Lux Simian
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Posted - 2007.09.11 19:30:00 -
[99]
Sounds like not so much will change - regarding number of drones you can field at a time, but more that the options of what you have in your drone bay expand.
I suspect the Drone Bandwith itself will work out to be roughly what the ships can currently field, with drone bays expanded.
Although I cant see how it would work without increasing the number of drones a ship can launch (ie if I choose small drones to launch from my Domi can I still only launch 5?).
Sounds interesting though.
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Malvahne
Dark Knights of Deneb
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Posted - 2007.09.11 19:32:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Marux
Originally by: Malvahne Any ETA on when the changes will hit SiSi? Need to know if I can still use 5 heavy drones with the Eos (have such a nice setup using heavy ewar bots and i'll cry if I no longer can perma ecm/damp my target ).
I would be really surprised if any BC aside from the Myrmidon can field 5 Heavies with this change.
Then they will get a big 'booo! ' and '*hissss* ' from me while I start tweaking my setup.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Blood Corsair's The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.09.11 19:45:00 -
[101]
Originally by: oniplE
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: CCP Hammer Specific balance changes can be discussed ad nauseam in the resulting forum thread based on not only the upcoming blog but also your testing on SISI. Like I said before we aren't doing this just to nerf you. I'm sure you will all agree it stands to reason that having balanced ships is better than having one ship that is far better than all other other ships in it's class.
LOL. Hammer has just said (very clearly): We're nerfing the Myrmidon and the Eos.
I expected the Myrm to get nerfed, but not the Eos. Wow. Guess I'll never have the chance to fly the Eos with 5x heavies.
Why would the eos be nerfed? Its drone bonus is very different from the myrmidon's.
I'm not saying that it *should* be nerfed. I'm saying that Hammer *will* nerf it. (The Eos that is)
It's going to be a shame if the Myrm finally gets a larger drone bay, only to be limited to 5x mediums in space or something silly like that, but oh well.
The Eos on the other hand has a pretty weak tank compared to the other fleet command ships, and I'm predicting that it'll get it's drone 'bandwidth' reduced to the point that it'll only be able to use 5x mediums, maybe 4x heavies. Either way I see it getting nerfed, just because of Hammers cryptic yet carefully worded statement.
The only thing that really would make me worried is if they limited the Ishtar and the number of heavies it could deploy. If the Ishtar gets nerfed, I'm going to be very disappointed.
Right now I'm at a crossroads with my training. If they nerf the Eos and the Ishtar, it will significantly change my skill path. Come to think of it, they're going to nerf damps too, so that will really hurt my skilling as well.
[Video]Blood Corsairs - Day One |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
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Posted - 2007.09.11 20:00:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: Razin
Yeah, I guess drastically reducing Myrm DPS and at the same time making its main weapon eminently more destroyable is pretty fair, after all. It don't need the missing slot.
Less destroyable as you will now be able to carry spares. No it doesn't need the slot because it's not missing, having less total slots is not something unique to the myrmidon, it's something shared with all other drone ships as a balancing factor and it's always highslots which are the least important slots of all that are removed.
It's because drones are your weapons instead of the guns so you do not need as many high slots for weapons.
You don't need to repeat yourself about why the slot is missing. The slot was taken away during balancing on SISI at the time when NOS was still a weapon. The nerfed Myrm could use a utility slot for a remote armor rep or something. Definitely not overpowering.
The medium drones are easily killed off by adversary ship's secondary weapons: drones. As future Myrm's medium drones are killed off its new meager DPS suffers even more.
And other drone ships have other bonuses. ...
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Haradgrim
Caldari The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2007.09.11 20:01:00 -
[103]
I got the distinct impression from reading the blog that while you might not be able to field heavies, you may be able to field more of a smaller class (i.e. more then 5 mediums). It would be cool if a myrm couldn't field heavies but could field somewhere between 7 & 10 meds. - Haradgrim [-WB-]
That.which.does.not.bend.breaks |
Selena 001
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Posted - 2007.09.11 20:03:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Right now I'm at a crossroads with my training. If they nerf the Eos and the Ishtar, it will significantly change my skill path. Come to think of it, they're going to nerf damps too, so that will really hurt my skilling as well.
Train industrial. I think its physically impossible for it to nerfed further so you wont waste those valuable SP when the "Nerf 'X' patch" hits. ___________
NATIONAL SARCASM DAY!! |
Lt Lucky
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Posted - 2007.09.11 20:05:00 -
[105]
Please someone tell me I'm not the only one that thinks this is the stupidest thing ever conceived in Eve. CCP come on... QUIT NERFING EVERYTHING!!! From the way you all talk why not make structure on a ship immune to all player weapons so no one gets bummed out about having their ship blown up. Yeah that makes about as much sense as this crap.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.09.11 20:07:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Alski
Agreed, anyone who has run the numbers on all the command ships (i can pritty much cite DPS numbers from memory here) knows that the Eos has THE most suckyest DPS of all the command ships without heavy drones, With heavy drones it has higher than average DPS, but in return it has the worst tank of all the gallante and minmatar CS.
Claymore AC/HAM with 3 damage mods, 3 hammerheads II and 2 hobgolins II: 530 DPS. Vulture neutron/ham with 3 damage mods and 5 hobgoblins II: 493 DPS Damnation HAM/Pulse with 3 damage mods and 5 hobgoblins II: sucky DPS Eos neutron with 3 damage mods and 5 ogre II: 901 DPS Eos neutron with 3 damage mods and 5 hammerhead II: 743 DPS
"the Eos has THE most suckyest DPS of all the command ships without heavy drones"
The Eos without drones already outdamage any other fleet command ship.
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What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Arushia
Nova Labs Empire Research
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Posted - 2007.09.11 20:08:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
The only thing that really would make me worried is if they limited the Ishtar and the number of heavies it could deploy. If the Ishtar gets nerfed, I'm going to be very disappointed.
Agree. The Ishtar already has serious grid and CPU issues that balance out its drone firepower, it doesn't need a nerf. The 3 HACs most fielded in the tournament (Ishtar, Deimos, and Cerberus) were pretty much equal in effectiveness.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Eve University
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Posted - 2007.09.11 20:09:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Gypsio III However, the Myrm has, in addition to those heavy drones, 6 turret slots (more than the Ferox, absurdly), and 5 midslots, allowing it to use the dampers-scoop-redeploy with shield recharged trick very effectively. And no great fitting problems, which at least keeps the Domi in some sort of balance.
Except that the Myrmidon gets no gun bonuses whatsoever, and dampeners are up on the nerftrain.
If they take away one heavy drone from the Myrmidon, it's one thing (but they had still better not). If they reduce it to only 5x medium drones in space, you run into another issue - why not just save 12-15m isk and get a Brutix? It'll outdamage the Myrmi with nearly as good a tank, thanks to the Myrmi's lack of gun bonus (which every Gallente drone boat BUT it has). Heck, run cruisers against it; the Myrmi's tank wins, and that's about it. Bigger, slower, and stings the same.
And to the person I talked to who said Nerf the Ishtar: what? You really think you got a 375 m3 drone bay in it to hold 37 medium drones? Are you kidding me?! The Ishtar was designed as a dedicated drone boat as per the description, and it shows. It DOES get a bonus to guns - all three of the hardpoints it gets. Without heavy drones, it becomes much less worthwhile, except maybe as a tank or a frigate harasser. And there are cheaper, better ships for that.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.09.11 20:34:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Razin
You don't need to repeat yourself about why the slot is missing. The slot was taken away during balancing on SISI at the time when NOS was still a weapon. The nerfed Myrm could use a utility slot for a remote armor rep or something. Definitely not overpowering.
The medium drones are easily killed off by adversary ship's secondary weapons: drones. As future Myrm's medium drones are killed off its new meager DPS suffers even more.
And other drone ships have other bonuses.
I am repeting myself as you don't seem to get it. Drone boats loose one high slot because it gains the power of drones. If it had the same number of highs as the others and drones as the same time it would be the same as giving all the other the BCs the drone space (and later bandwidth) as the myrm. Of course that would be just as wrong.
And still seems to miss the fact that you will actually have room for several drone waves so killing drones is just going to be a mission in futility.
As for other drone boats getting other bonuses so do the myrm, a tanking bonus. Should it have been a damage bonus instead? Maybe it should have but personally I think there is something wrong when a drone ship outdamages a blaster ship. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.09.11 20:40:00 -
[110]
I'll tell you exactly what bandwidth will be. First, it will NOT allow you to control more than 5 drones.
Currently, in order to limit a ship's drone DPS the size of the ship's drone bay is limited. However, this means that these ships really can't carry different types of drones for different situations.
Example: Thorax. It has a 50m3 drone bay. This means it can field 5 medium drones or two heavy drones. When loading drones you have to pretty much choose a specific damage type (unless you use 10 lights) and are stuck with it.
Bandwidth will be an attribute on a ship that limits the number and type of drones a ship can use. So the Thorax will say get 50 Bandwidth. Heavy drones will use up 25 bandwidth, and medium drones will use up 10 bandwidth. This means the Thorax will still only be able to field 2 heavies. But, now they can increase the size of the drone bay so that you can carry multiple types of drones. They can make it 200m3, but prevent you from fielding more then 2 heavies. This will keep the drone DPS the same, but allow you to carry different damage types or e-war drones for different situations.
However, you will not be able to use more than 5 drones. I can guarantee that. ----------------------------------------------------
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Hyakuchan
Hyakucorp
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Posted - 2007.09.11 20:53:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Hyakuchan on 11/09/2007 20:54:00
Originally by: Farrellus Cameron Bandwidth will be an attribute on a ship that limits the number and type of drones a ship can use. So the Thorax will say get 50 Bandwidth. Heavy drones will use up 25 bandwidth, and medium drones will use up 10 bandwidth. This means the Thorax will still only be able to field 2 heavies. But, now they can increase the size of the drone bay so that you can carry multiple types of drones. They can make it 200m3, but prevent you from fielding more then 2 heavies. This will keep the drone DPS the same, but allow you to carry different damage types or e-war drones for different situations.
You pretty much stated what people already know.
The question is whether or not the Myrmi will come out of this fracas with enough bandwidth to still command five heavies. If it doesn't, it's a nerf no matter how you explain it.
The general mood being that people ASSUME that CCP will use the opportunity of instituting a new system to also slice down the Myrmi's selling point. -------------------------------------------------- FRIGATS Coalition FREGE-Red-IAC-Goon-AAA-Tau-Southerncross
"We gonna beat you with frigats." |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
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Posted - 2007.09.11 20:56:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: Razin
You don't need to repeat yourself about why the slot is missing. The slot was taken away during balancing on SISI at the time when NOS was still a weapon. The nerfed Myrm could use a utility slot for a remote armor rep or something. Definitely not overpowering.
The medium drones are easily killed off by adversary ship's secondary weapons: drones. As future Myrm's medium drones are killed off its new meager DPS suffers even more.
And other drone ships have other bonuses.
I am repeting myself as you don't seem to get it. Drone boats loose one high slot because it gains the power of drones. If it had the same number of highs as the others and drones as the same time it would be the same as giving all the other the BCs the drone space (and later bandwidth) as the myrm. Of course that would be just as wrong.
And still seems to miss the fact that you will actually have room for several drone waves so killing drones is just going to be a mission in futility.
As for other drone boats getting other bonuses so do the myrm, a tanking bonus. Should it have been a damage bonus instead? Maybe it should have but personally I think there is something wrong when a drone ship outdamages a blaster ship.
I guess you're one of those people who thinks that shouting overcomes a language barrier.
You also miss the fact that deploying and recalling drones takes time that severely affects DPS when theyÆre your major contributor.
And why exactly is it wrong when a drone ship outdamages a blaster ship? There are certainly other factors at play here that may justify either. What you said, and what you should have said from the very beginning, it that you're stating your personal opinions. And that's fine, 'cause we know everyone's got one. ...
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kaeri
Gallente Kaeri Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.11 21:39:00 -
[113]
Dont hurt my Eos! I just got a tech 2 rigged one! Gahhhhh....
Surely a CS (which takes longer to train than a HAC) Should be able to field 5 heavies? [Kaeri] |
Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
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Posted - 2007.09.11 21:43:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: Razin
You don't need to repeat yourself about why the slot is missing. The slot was taken away during balancing on SISI at the time when NOS was still a weapon. The nerfed Myrm could use a utility slot for a remote armor rep or something. Definitely not overpowering.
The medium drones are easily killed off by adversary ship's secondary weapons: drones. As future Myrm's medium drones are killed off its new meager DPS suffers even more.
And other drone ships have other bonuses.
I am repeting myself as you don't seem to get it. Drone boats loose one high slot because it gains the power of drones. If it had the same number of highs as the others and drones as the same time it would be the same as giving all the other the BCs the drone space (and later bandwidth) as the myrm. Of course that would be just as wrong.
And still seems to miss the fact that you will actually have room for several drone waves so killing drones is just going to be a mission in futility.
As for other drone boats getting other bonuses so do the myrm, a tanking bonus. Should it have been a damage bonus instead? Maybe it should have but personally I think there is something wrong when a drone ship outdamages a blaster ship.
I guess you're one of those people who thinks that shouting overcomes a language barrier.
You also miss the fact that deploying and recalling drones takes time that severely affects DPS when theyÆre your major contributor.
And why exactly is it wrong when a drone ship outdamages a blaster ship? There are certainly other factors at play here that may justify either. What you said, and what you should have said from the very beginning, it that you're stating your personal opinions. And that's fine, 'cause we know everyone's got one.
And you're intentionally ignoring the fact that your opponent has already chosen to focus his weapons on your drones, severely hindering if not completely removing the dps inflicted upon your actual ship. You also need to relock the drones every time, often while suffering from whatever the latest EW craze is. This typically takes considerably longer than the two or three seconds it takes to scoop and redeploy drones within 1500m.
Drone ships on principle should not out-damage a blaster ship because while you can easily get drones out to 45km with minimal skills and no modules, blasters not only have to deal with optimal ranges of a few km, but also drain capacitor, occupy high slots that are free for utility modules or additional weapons on a droning ship, generally have more of a problem with tracking, have T2 ammunition that has a variety of negative effects, and are vulnerable to electronic warfare.
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Jonathos
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Posted - 2007.09.11 21:50:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Tamia Clant
Ahh, so it's a nerf to drone-ships coming up then? I sense much whineage on the forums!
"It's to un-nerf specialized drone ships and allow more differentation between ships. There is also specific Drone Region content in this update."
Try reading before you spout bull****.
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VicturusTeSaluto
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Posted - 2007.09.11 21:51:00 -
[116]
Edited by: VicturusTeSaluto on 11/09/2007 21:53:34
Originally by: CCP Hammer Specific balance changes can be discussed ad nauseam in the resulting forum thread based on not only the upcoming blog but also your testing on SISI. Like I said before we aren't doing this just to nerf you. I'm sure you will all agree it stands to reason that having balanced ships is better than having one ship that is far better than all other other ships in it's class.
Or, you could look at it from an actual gameplay basis instead of listening to transient forum whiners that do not actually play the game and will be gone in a few months.
The myrm is fine, in any practical setup it will do very little DPS without drones. It is a simple matter to pop the drones and boom- DPS is gone. Not to mention that it is slow and easily killed by faster ships if the pilot has a brain.
The eos is a great ship. Because it is gallente? Because it has drones? No, because it is a command ship. They are all great ships. How about you remove some high slots from the sleip because it is also a great ship?
Originally by: benzss And nobody's bleating about needing to nerf Hurricanes.
That's because ****ty pilots seem to always fly caldari, they never even thought to fly a hurricane and never even though to try and target drones or keep a myrm from closing range.
The myrm is perfectly balanced post-nos nerf.
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ZenTex
Trade and Research Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.11 21:52:00 -
[117]
Gallente starship pilots, welcome to the beginning "Gallente are the suck" era. Better train Amarr now as they will clearly be the next FOTM.
On a more serious note, I hardly grasp what these changes will bring, and reading the posts here, I'm not the only one.
Let's await the cheanges, then whine.
There's little a sledgehammer can't fix. If you can't fix it, you need a bigger sledgehammer. If it's unfixable, blame CCP. :p
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Alex V0X2
Minmatar Royal Crimson Lancers
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Posted - 2007.09.11 21:52:00 -
[118]
i don't know if it's been posted before, but this is how i see it
drone bandwith is like a ship's powergrid. the more powergrid you have, the more guns you can put on. so you can choose for 8 guns, or 6 guns and a tank, or a full tank and 2 guns, etc
so in drone language
5 heavy drones, or 3 ecms, or 7 armor reppers....etc [/url] |
VicturusTeSaluto
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Posted - 2007.09.11 21:56:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad
Drone ships on principle should not out-damage a blaster ship because while you can easily get drones out to 45km with minimal skills and no modules, blasters not only have to deal with optimal ranges of a few km
Oh FFS. Do you have any idea how long it takes for heavy drones to go 45km? Long enough for you to spam them to death with your launchers. Any drone pilot that lets his drones get that far away from him is first going to lose his drones, and then his ship.
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Ethan Hunte
TARDZ
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Posted - 2007.09.11 22:03:00 -
[120]
as long as Im not going to be reduced to three drones flying something like the pilgrim or curse then its not a nerf... :)
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