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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
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BH Desryn
ISD BH
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Posted - 2007.09.23 22:31:00 -
[1]
Edited by: BH Desryn on 23/09/2007 22:36:07
Since so many people keep asking the question of when the next mirror is, here is the answer. Mirrors are only made when the devs have a reason to need an updated one. Mirrors take quite some time and work to create which is why they're not done that often.
To make a mirror to singularity takes around 2 hours of downtime to copy the tranquility database, followed by a day or more of work internally to prepare the database for use. It is therefore not feasible to do this regularly. Asking the same question that's already been asked by hundreds of others before you will not change the answer.
As for skills, If you want more skills on Singularity, start training them on Singularity.
Ensign? What? I'm a Captain now! [Bug Report Here] |
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ISD BH Desryn
ISD BH
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Posted - 2007.09.23 22:31:00 -
[2]
Edited by: BH Desryn on 29/09/2007 00:40:20 Since so many people keep asking the question of when the next mirror is, here is the answer. Mirrors are only made when the devs have a reason to need an updated one. Mirrors take quite some time and work to create which is why they're not done that often.
To make a mirror to singularity takes around 2 hours of downtime to copy the tranquility database, followed by a day or more of work internally to prepare the database for use. It is therefore not feasible to do this regularly. Asking the same question that's already been asked by hundreds of others before you will not change the answer.
As for skills, If you want more skills on Singularity, start training them on Singularity.
So when is the next mirror? SoonÖ
Ensign? What? I'm a Captain now! [Bug Report Here] |
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.09.23 23:05:00 -
[3]
Perhaps you could elaborate a little? i.e., when do the devs usually consider it worthwhile to do a mirror?
I can appreciate some of the work involved with creating a new one - all science & industry jobs in progress at the time of the mirror have to be cancelled, starbases and outposts (and their contents) wiped, markets reseeded and goodness knows what else. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Jita Alt
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Posted - 2007.09.23 23:07:00 -
[4]
You know this won't actually reduce the number of mirror whine threads, right? :p __________________________________ Calling you an idiot on a forum nearby |
Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.24 00:11:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Aramendel on 24/09/2007 00:11:09 At least they will be able to be squished faster.
As for "when do the devs usually consider it worthwhile to do a mirror?" - thats pretty easy to answer with a bit of thinking:
When it is needed or when it can be done with minimal additional effort.
The test server is used primary to..well..test new game content. And not new ship setups (although it can be used very well for that, you just have to invest effort by training your chars on sisi too).
So, essentially, devs will upddate the char database when they need more people on sisi to test new stuff. Right now that isn't the case, at least until we'll see the new ships.
Either that or they do it when it is the least work intensive or can be combined with other needed stuff.
For example, a TQ copy will most likely be done when they need an extended downtime anyway (for example hardware upgrades, should be no problem to do these and copy in the meanwhile the database). And the sisi update when they need to fiddle with the user database there anyway, too.
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.09.24 00:34:00 -
[6]
So I suppose the question here is really "When is Rev 3 appearing on SISI?"
That seems the best time to mirror TQ. The new engine and new content will require a large patch (and likely downtime), and they'll need testers in droves to test the new stuff out.
Since Rev 3 ships in November and we haven't heard anything about delays, I would guess testing would start sometime in October. -------------------------------------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
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CCP Atropos
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Posted - 2007.09.24 11:23:00 -
[7]
BH Desryn is correct though; at the moment we're working on fixing the 600+ defects that Oveur mentioned in his devblog. These obviously require new clients rather than a new db, which is why Sisi players have to patch so regularly, and do not have an up-to-TQ-date version of their skills.
When we have a need to release content for public playtesting, for example with the new ships, then we may very well update the db, if we feel that there aren't enough people currently being able to test a specific feature.
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Braaage
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.09.24 17:21:00 -
[8]
"When is the next mirror"
NEVER -- eve-guides.com POS, Outpost and Sovereignty info
Now includes setting up POSs in Empire |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2007.09.24 21:32:00 -
[9]
replace mirrors with +20 implants
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AiC
Gallente modro
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Posted - 2007.09.25 12:09:00 -
[10]
last mirror: 2007-07-03
nice service for rl-euros paying members like me... thx
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Valandril
Caldari Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2007.09.25 14:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: AiC last mirror: 2007-07-03
nice service for rl-euros paying members like me... thx
Emm ur paying for tq not for sisi, sisi is test server, given us as "extra". I don't udnerstand all those ppl whining, u wanna pvp - pvp on tq. ---
Battlecarriers ! |
SilentHunter13
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Posted - 2007.09.25 15:53:00 -
[12]
'If you want to pvp, pvp on TQ'
Interesting, well, i can pvp on TQ but my problem is (as with some other people) is i don't have the isk to buy every single ship that i want to test and fit it out to see if its worth buying or not or how effective it might be mining or combat wise yada yada yada.
Alot, if not all can understand that we don't pay for the test server, that it is there for everyone to use and that it takes time to update it. Even if you update it now, someone will complain in 2 weeks time saying its not up to date (then its possible to use the phrase "learn it on the test server then").
Some people in eve play for a while before even using the test server, who you say? well not everyone is awake when playing eve and not everyone uses it to its full, i for one have not used the test server til recently and i played it for 30 mins and decided to wait til next update. Why you ask? why not learn the skills in the server and then you can do as you wish? Because my skills on TQ are such that i can use minmatar, amarr, gallente and caldari battlecruisers, caldari and gallente battleships and the skills associated with using those ships in combat situations properly such as rigs and tech 2 modules. However, the test server only has me down as being able to use gallente battlecruisers and nothing else, i cannot even fit a shield hardener. I am fully aware this takes time and its not a thing of "your all lazy" or whatever, that it is a chore to do such a thing when its not payed for or really needed towards game play however i would rather not have to train all the skills i have done on the test server just to catch up and test the ship or modules out, by that time i would have made the money and bought it, tested it on TQ and moved on.
How can i truely test ships and modules and new things coming out in the world of eve properly if i do not have the skills to well.....test them.....Don't by all means instantly go and upgrade the server because i made this statement, but please put it higher on your list of 'things to do', yes it takes time, yes it will cut down on people's play time and yes we don't pay you for doing it however doing the update will benefit all who use the test server and besides, sure we don't pay you for doing the test server or whatever but you provide it and thus it should be maintained and kept reasonably up to date otherwise there is no real point in providing it. (i say all, there is always one person whos got somthing to complain about).
Last thing before i submit this wall of jibberish to the world to be cut into peices and thrown back at me is the thought of
"ergh, but.....it takes time to do it, we don't get payed for it, why should we bother. Just means we have to work"
Will generally just carry on, i mean you remember back when you were teenagers? "i'll do my work later, i got plenty of time, besides there is no rush" is somthing said alot until you realise at the last moment "oh noes its becoming a real problem and i'm getting a yelling about it, damn i wish i shoulda done it earlier", if hundreds of people post complaints about the test server not being up to date, isn't that a sign that somthing should be done?
Think about it and read carefully before replying ^^ (there is always someone who doesn't read it all carefully and posts somthing stupid)
Thank you for your time SilentHunter13
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Valandril
Caldari Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2007.09.25 17:32:00 -
[13]
When there is NEED to test certain new feature, ppl get this skill slapped, ie this is what happened when hams kicked in.
And beside that and point that u don't have isk on tq to test some ships (tho then why u need to test this ship if u can't afford to fly it ?), i didnt rly understand what u wanted to say in ur too-long post, less text more content and life will be easier.
U first agree that updating because of whiners is pointless, coz in 2 weeks they will start whining again, but then u write half page about how bad and bo-hoo is fact that server is not updated.
Also there is a lot of ppl complaining that ****** and cocain + other hard drugs should be legal, altogether with child ****, doesnt that mean that this should become legal ? No it don't. ---
Battlecarriers ! |
Cyberus
Caldari Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.25 18:27:00 -
[14]
blah blah blah....... 2-3 weeks more and forums will be silent again about sisi mirror.
ohhh btw to all who said its not about to test your setups on sisi. WTF you think we should do? doing some npc trading? TEST means -> TEST so much if posseble ships/ mods/ items/ rigs etc. All difrend kinds of fittings and so on. CCP wants us to test so thats what we/you do. YOU testing and who knows meaby while you trying some new shiny setup on ya probebly future ship you will find something like: ".....WTF???? this is wrong, its broken or whatever it is. its not supose work like this." and then you run and write bug report and thats what CCP expect from us while we trying our setups on sisi. :) and means WE ARE TESTING!!!!
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SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2007.09.25 20:09:00 -
[15]
'And beside that and point that u don't have isk on tq to test some ships (tho then why u need to test this ship if u can't afford to fly it ?)' - *sigh* ok, here we go. Do you know what you actually wrote? "why do you need to test the ship if you cant afford it" well Valandril i would like to know if the ship setup is worth using the money or saving up for instead of using my isk on another project in TQ so that is why i want to test it on sisi, use your head, i know tonnes of people who fit out abaddons with lots of T2 equipment and rigs and see how it handles full well knowing it will take them a few weeks to get the money for such a setup.
'i didnt rly understand what u wanted to say in ur too-long post, less text more content and life will be easier.' - Called making a rounded argument and looking at it from all sides, yes some people want the upgrade, and yes some ppl don't have the time to initiate the upgrade. 'Too-long' tbh its a forum where you type words down so people can read it, if you dont like reading on a forum for more than 10 seconds, go to ship setups and read that.
'U first agree that updating because of whiners is pointless, coz in 2 weeks they will start whining again, but then u write half page about how bad and bo-hoo is fact that server is not updated.' - Again, balanced, showing all sides of the argument so that others can understand fully what we are asking and the reasons why and so on and so forth.
'Also there is a lot of ppl complaining that ****** and cocain + other hard drugs should be legal, altogether with child ****, doesnt that mean that this should become legal? No it don't.' - Doesn't really relate to this matter i'm sorry. This is indeed a internet game whereby you pay per play, game mods and designers are interested in your opinions to help the game out and change things for the better, this is why we have this section of the forums and this is why we have the forums in the first place, otherwise it would just be roleplay.
I urge you to not reply on what i just wrote and instead read it and read my previous statement again. I fear you posting again about my statements might lead to pointless arguments and eventually insults of which this game could do without.
Yours Silent ------------------------------------------
Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.25 22:23:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Aramendel on 25/09/2007 22:25:19
Originally by: Cyberus blah blah blah....... 2-3 weeks more and forums will be silent again about sisi mirror.
ohhh btw to all who said its not about to test your setups on sisi. WTF you think we should do? doing some npc trading?
You should play on TQ.
Sisi is not intended as TQ alternative. You still can use it to test setups, but that requires *gasp* effort. By keeping your skilsl trained on sisi. This isn't exactly difficult, I have on both servers about the same SP.
Quote: TEST means -> TEST so much if posseble ships/ mods/ items/ rigs etc. All difrend kinds of fittings and so on. CCP wants us to test so thats what we/you do. YOU testing and who knows meaby while you trying some new shiny setup on ya probebly future ship you will find something like: ".....WTF???? this is wrong, its broken or whatever it is. its not supose work like this." and then you run and write bug report and thats what CCP expect from us while we trying our setups on sisi. :) and means WE ARE TESTING!!!!
Trying out new setups is virtually useless as bug finder. Especially since if you are testing NEW setups you usually have no real experience with them and have a hard time to differentiate between bugs and normal behaviour. The amount of white noise that produces (aka bugreports which are not about bugs because the person confused a normal behavious as bug because he is unfamiliar with the module/ship in question) makes it actually contraproductive.
From CCPs perspective it only makes sense to get people testing if there is new content or considerable changes to a module/ship which makes it more likely that there are actual bugs to find.
And that is actually exactly what most other MMORPG companies do - they open their test server only for the public when there are major patches to be tested. Otherwise they are closed to the public because keeping them open does not really help. Having an online-all-the-time test server is a favour from ccp to us.
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Sleepkevert
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.25 23:11:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Braaage "When is the next mirror"
SOONÖ
I fixed it for ya.
Seriously tough, i can imagine that people want to test setups and stuff, but that's not that the server was made for in the first place...
Sign my sig |
Atomic Atty
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.09.25 23:41:00 -
[18]
Be patient guys. We know Rev 3 is supposed to hit TQ on Nov 28th + SoonÖ (Sry CCP couldn't resist :p). So we could expect the next mirror to be done around the first half of November. This is just speculation though, but quite logical tbh.
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Idea to reduce the waiting time to get a Singularity mirror |
chrisreeves
Gallente Asgard Protectorate Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.09.28 05:37:00 -
[19]
Edited by: chrisreeves on 28/09/2007 05:38:01
Originally by: Sleepkevert
Seriously tough, i can imagine that people want to test setups and stuff, but that's not that the server was made for in the first place...
Actually, http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g22.asp, specifically
Originally by: who ever wrote the guide
Tranquility is the ôliveö server, the EVE game world where most of the action takes place. Entropy (now Singularity) is the test server where players can experiment with new features and changes without risking loss or changes to their favorite characters on the live server.
(Bold Added).
So actually, the "test" server is for testing (<-notice the word "test" in "testing") setups. Not that it is exclusively for this purpose but if you are "test(ing)" a setup then technically the "test" server is a place for that.
Just wanted to point that out -----------------
Originally by: kieron The Ibis was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.28 17:45:00 -
[20]
Actually, no it says "with new features and changes". Not new ship setups.
And for THAT skills are provided. When HAMs were introduced people were given HAM5. When heat got introduced people were given thermodynamics 5.
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ISD BH Desryn
ISD BH
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Posted - 2007.09.29 00:41:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sleepkevert
Originally by: Braaage "When is the next mirror"
SOONÖ
I fixed it for ya.
Ah yes I forgot, I've added it :D
Ensign? What? I'm a Captain now! [Bug Report Here] |
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Dark Flare
Caldari Corpus PCG The State
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Posted - 2007.09.29 01:44:00 -
[22]
Originally by: AiC last mirror: 2007-07-03
nice service for rl-euros paying members like me... thx
You pay for TQ.
SiSi is a test server for CCP. Not for you. You should be grateful that they let you on it, they don't have to at all. Yet they put time into making it so that we CAN use it.
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chrisreeves
Gallente Asgard Protectorate Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.09.29 01:45:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Aramendel Actually, no it says "with new features and changes". Not new ship setups...
So, how are people supposed to find bugs? (which of course is another thing the test server is used for). I guess "new features and setups" don't affect ship setups -----------------
Originally by: kieron The Ibis was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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chrisreeves
Gallente Asgard Protectorate Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.09.29 01:46:00 -
[24]
Edited by: chrisreeves on 29/09/2007 01:46:01 yay forum lag \o/ -----------------
Originally by: kieron The Ibis was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Anaal Nathrakh
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Posted - 2007.09.29 11:24:00 -
[25]
Originally by: AiC last mirror: 2007-07-03
nice service for rl-euros paying members like me... thx
I think its YYYY-MM-DD :p not YYYY-DD-MM
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ISD BH Desryn
ISD BH
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Posted - 2007.09.29 20:30:00 -
[26]
The last mirror was in July. This one isnt that old.
Ensign? What? I'm a Captain now! [Bug Report Here] |
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Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.30 10:14:00 -
[27]
Originally by: chrisreeves
Originally by: Aramendel Actually, no it says "with new features and changes". Not new ship setups...
So, how are people supposed to find bugs? (which of course is another thing the test server is used for). I guess "new features and setups" don't affect ship setups
Copy-paste:
Trying out new setups is virtually useless as bug finder. Especially since if you are testing NEW setups you usually have no real experience with them and have a hard time to differentiate between bugs and normal behaviour. The amount of white noise that produces (aka bugreports which are not about bugs because the person confused a normal behavious as bug because he is unfamiliar with the module/ship in question) makes it actually contraproductive.
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NaRoaN
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Posted - 2007.10.01 02:31:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dark Flare
Originally by: AiC last mirror: 2007-07-03
nice service for rl-euros paying members like me... thx
You pay for TQ.
SiSi is a test server for CCP. Not for you. You should be grateful that they let you on it, they don't have to at all. Yet they put time into making it so that we CAN use it.
14.1 What is the difference between Tranquility, Singularity (SiSi) and Multiplicity (Multi)? Tranquility is the ôliveö server, the EVE game world where most of the action takes place. Singularity is the test server where players can experiment with new features and changes without risking loss or changes to their favorite characters on the live server.
Looks like it is what we pay for bubb... And it is for us also
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Terex193
Amarr Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.01 05:06:00 -
[29]
in 2 days itll b 3 months :/
Take my sig devs,i dare you >--.--< |
Valandril
Caldari Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2007.10.01 11:30:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Terex193 in 2 days itll b 3 months :/
Call the whambulance ? ---
Battlecarriers ! |
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