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Daughter's Farmer
0
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Posted - 2012.01.26 17:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Before we start talk about what Escort carrier in eve should be lets look at a Typical (yet generalized) Escort carrier used in WW2.
Weakness to the design if Escort-Carrier
Modify cheap ship with limited capabilities Limited speed : then to slow down fleet and is often reallocated to escorting transport ship. Limited capacity: can't hold many fighter and capacity to do maintenance is limited if in fleet: escort carrier fighter used in defense matter to protect carriers fleets that have deployed all they fighter in a offensive tactics
Advantages: Cheap compare to a carrier
Flavor texte: Caldary state: Response to SANSHA INVASION, with main fleet protecting the border there was a new niche created with the Sansha invasion that are skipping border defence with wormhole. It was proposed to use (in creative way) those large fleets of outdated scorpion design in the scrap yard. It was thought that using 2 strip out hull of scorpion could free enough space for a few fighters. Many design concession was made to keep the price tag low since no funds are available to create this support fleet.
Tech 3 CPU similar to battleship (thus no drone control unit) Effective HP should be double of battleship(ex: scorpion) but with double signature radius (to create a weaknees to dreadnoughts) Volume: 2,750,000.00 m3 (can't fit supercarrier)
High slot: 4 no turret no missile pod
Med slot 4
Low Slot 2
Rigs: 3 Slot: 400 calibration
Skill bonus
Carrier: Can fit one caldary fighter per level (special launcher ramp ignore drone bay size) 20% bonus to drone upgrade
Battleship: 15% damage bonus heavy and sentry drones 15% bonus to logistic & electronic warfare drone effectiveness
target range 35km (due to interference from twin warp engine)
Drone bay size 400 square metre
+2 warp strength due to twin warp engine Warp: 0.85 AU/S (safety lock down to prevent ship ripping in 2 pieces)
Note: I would have attached a pic of the design but it seems I am as much Lazy as the forum design, so not gonna into the trouble of external link when I could just attach low rez pic like in many forums
P.S. constructive criticism is required |
Khrage
90
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Posted - 2012.01.26 18:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Daughter's Farmer wrote:P.S. constructive criticism is required
good luck with that. |
Michus Danether
Immortalis Silens Intrepid Crossing
15
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Posted - 2012.01.26 20:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Okay so the initial presentation was a bit muddled but I wonder if the OP has the right general idea?
There is a big jump between battleships and carriers and not much in the way of intermediate ship classes unlike the frig->destroyer->cruiser->battlecruiser->battleship thing we have at the moment. A 'battle carrier' or something might be interesting? I dunno. Something somebody should think about. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
391
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Posted - 2012.01.26 20:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sounds semi decent, not as bad and OP as some of them that I've seen. I doubt it'll make it into the game, but I do like the idea of a step between Domi/Rattler and Carrier somewhere in the middle.
One thing though, if English isn't your first language, please don't try and write flavor text, it's just painful to read. |
Whiteknight03
WESAYSO Industries
28
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Posted - 2012.01.26 21:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Your presentation could use a bit of work, but otherwise the idea sounds somewhat decent. An Orca sized combat ship would certainly be interesting. Perhaps giving these Escort Carriers 4-5 high slots, with 4 unbonuse Large guns/missiles could provide some more options? I'm imagining something designed for roaming far away from it's base for a while, to better respond to threats where ever they appear.
The main problem is, of course, that one should not obsolete battleships with these changes. I like your suggestion of higher sig radius, but double a BS's ehp would probably make them too tough. With a large sig, they're weak to the new T3's, as well as stealthbombers.
Also, a good sized cargohold or maybe even a small (2500m3?) corp hangar could provide interesting new options for supporting fleets.
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Maluscious Melody
Frequent Moose
6
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Posted - 2012.01.27 11:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Erm, so basically you want a warp stabbed fighter spewing Caldari Domi that can carry 5 fighters with a huge ECM drone buff but reduced slot layout? |
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
27
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Posted - 2012.01.27 11:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Built in stabs on a combat capable ship = massive fail
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Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
104
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Posted - 2012.01.27 12:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tho I'm not for this, I do want some gaps in ship types closed. Ships frigg to tier one BC have roles, and that style of fleet needs ships to take on roles with in it.
Tier2 and BS are looser able to usually cover 2 rolls and .5 a third one (like tackle).
After that huge gap and dreds and carriers, one has a roll and can fight some other things ok, the other has like 3 rolls it dose well at the same time.
Then gap supers and titans, witch do death star and little star Base that moves stuff. Not really a roll other than battle field supremacy.
They may be could fill in some of it. Those holes. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
0
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Posted - 2012.01.27 12:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
So you essentially want to duct tape two scorpions together to create a sub capital carrier? |
Christine Peeveepeeski
Killing With Kindness The Obsidian Front
44
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Posted - 2012.01.27 13:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
You know, the idea is sound.. his implementation of it would be bad.
Something that can use up to 5 fighters, has the ehp of a decently tanked BS, can't jump and can use gates would actually be quite cool.
Not sure how I'd balance it though, problem being that isk does not balance ships really because you'll get alliances that just roll with 'lets take 500 of them'.
It'd be a nice hop on the long train to getting a carrier at any rate.
I don't know.... sounds cool, just not sure it'd work in EVE. |
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Marcus Henik
Dark Nebula Academy O X I D E
6
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Posted - 2012.01.27 14:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Like the concept, but think it should be a freighter hull to stay more in line with the general idea of a ww2 escort. Perhaps a converted orca? Put it in the same speed catagory or a little faster. |
Bent Barrel
20
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Posted - 2012.01.27 14:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
I am all for the sentry bonuses. double the drone bay please :-) maybe it could get +1 drone controlled per level instead of the fighter bonus. not exactly a carrier but enough DPS to be noticed in a fight especialy with 10 sentries out.
maybe a combat refited Orca hull would make sense for this.
however I am missing the fighter bay numbers :-) |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate
38
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Posted - 2012.01.27 14:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
I dunno, i kinda like the general idea.
Have to make their bonuses so they are a true support ship though. No offensive or defensive capabilities other than the fighters and maybe a drone bay and bandwidth for a flight of light or mediums. Make them expensive, and paper thin (maybe 2x battleship ehp) and slow.
Bonus to Racial remote repair Bonus to Racial self repair +1 fighter per level. Can only hold 5 fighters max.
Give them a ship hanger that can carry up to 4 fitted frigs, or two fitted cruisers. Give them a small maintenence bay that allows refitting/resupply of ships.
It would have to be escorted by support ships or a dead duck. Useful for escorting/supporting small fleets in hostile space. Perhaps give it a really weak capacitor so it has to fit cap boosters to run its tank/RR or during sustained warping. That would give it a 'supply' limitation so it cant stay out unsupported indefinately.
A escort or scout carrier would be fun. would be great for small scale territorial wars. Make em really expensive so they dont blot out the sun. |
Proteus Maximus
Drunken Old Farts Innovia Alliance
53
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Posted - 2012.01.27 14:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
I respond to this thread every time with the same correction. Flack turrets only capable of defeating a % of incoming missiles ans a wall of damage a friget can penetrate with moderate damage. Drones should be tracking dissruption, neutralizing ans sensor dampening. The ship should be able to project an emergency defense bubble not unlike a poss shield at a huge fuel expence with a duration of 5 minutes & a 20 minutes recovery. Shields may not be deployed with in 20k of one another & not cover am area greater than 10 k. Eve... Burn it....Burn it All |
stoicfaux
697
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Posted - 2012.01.27 14:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
A high-sec baby carrier that can assign fighters to mission runners? The number of alt accounts it would create would make CCP dance for joy (and drive plex prices up.)
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
93
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Posted - 2012.01.27 15:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:A high-sec baby carrier that can assign fighters to mission runners? The number of alt accounts it would create would make CCP dance for joy (and drive plex prices up.)
Well station gaming thrown to another level ... IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free>>>free ****>>>????
Public ch.: Basterds on vacation-á |
Wacktopia
Noir.
149
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Posted - 2012.01.27 15:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Daughter's Farmer wrote:+2 warp strength due to twin warp engine
You get your carrier tackled and ganked or something?...
Apparently we're getting censored now. |
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
0
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Posted - 2012.01.27 18:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
Instead of taping two scorpions together, perhaps a more realistic explanation would be a on Orca modified for battle. Kind of like the Minmatar version of pimp my ride. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
184
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Posted - 2012.01.28 11:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Patient 2428190 wrote:Built in stabs on a combat capable ship = massive fail
Ever heard of supercaps? |
Hound Halfhand
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
5
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Posted - 2012.01.28 15:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:You know, the idea is sound.. his implementation of it would be bad.
Something that can use up to 5 fighters, has the ehp of a decently tanked BS, can't jump and can use gates would actually be quite cool.
Not sure how I'd balance it though, problem being that isk does not balance ships really because you'll get alliances that just roll with 'lets take 500 of them'.
It'd be a nice hop on the long train to getting a carrier at any rate.
I don't know.... sounds cool, just not sure it'd work in EVE.
I agree. 1 fighter per skill level and some kind of fleet roll that does not involve remote repairing. I was thinking that maybe it can fit 7 or 8 small turrets/launchers and get a bonus to tracking/optimal (similar to the guys flak suggestion above me). Would be good against small ships but not battlecruisers and battleships. Also its bonuses would revolve around projected ECCM, remote sensor boosters, remote sensor dampening, etc. Also possibly 5 drones in addition to 5 fighters also it should have a hell of a tank. It should be T2, size/mass of the Orca but heavily modified hull, uses jumpgates, not cynos and more expensive than a marauder or faction battleship. Really skill intensive, give something real for 100m sp guys to train for.
On a side note, make it something a dreadnought can easily track and hit, at the same time improving the dreadnought's roll.
Again, EVE players have been asking for the "Escort Carriers" for years and it is probably something CCP wants to look into. Probably the most desired next ship after the "T3 frigates". |
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Death Toll007
Fleet of Doom Psychotic Tendencies.
25
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Posted - 2012.01.28 16:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
The ship concept in history was to create something that was not as good as the real thing, but could sort of do it for a cheap price tag and in quick fashion. Usually old warship or transport ship hulls.
Therefore it should be 1. Racial specific 2. Not as good as a carrier by any strech. 3. Better than a BS, because BS were susceptible to them in conflict. 4. Cheap price tag, say about 30% more than a tier 3 BS?
Forget the orca... use the freighters as mentioned earlier in the post.
They have the hitpoints he recommends, strip the cargo bay for drone bay, and add visible openings to the models on their cargo bays to identify as fighter bays. If all five fighters are fit, then only about 150-250m3 should remain for other drones.
Like the flavor of limited fitting, but go 4/4/4 +2 appropriate for race(can be split). Prevents overtaking BS, and ensures role fitting.
Add maintenance bay, fuel bay for triage, and small corp bay.
Role Bonus: Able to launch five fighters or ten drones. (allows limited offensive role). Capital remote repair and local repair systems are PG/CPU reduced to fit two appropriate for race, can fit triage (if triage is active can run two capital remote/ local repair mods stable [run the role bonus numbers to apply to cap usage of mods only during triage] otherwise Cap use of capital mod with cap of BS).
Racial Battleship skill: Same as racial carrier bonuses
Scan res of ship equivalent of racial carrier.
Targeting range equivalent of racial battleship.
HP about 2x BS.
Capacitor equivalent of battleship (forces triage to utilize capital remote repair role).
Maybe this: Cannot be rigged due to extensive modification of hull
-DT |
Ehn Roh
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2012.01.28 20:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Khrage wrote:Daughter's Farmer wrote:P.S. constructive criticism is required good luck with that.
And yet it happened anyways. I'm mildly surprised.
I like the general idea, and quite a few of the subsequent ideas.
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Death Toll007
Fleet of Doom Psychotic Tendencies.
25
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Posted - 2012.01.29 08:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
I wonder if any devs have read this thread :(
-DT |
Gellenter Pl
The Final Solution Inc. Exiled Ones
11
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Posted - 2012.01.29 11:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
the idea of escort carrier is pretty awesome, but it will be hard to balance this class of ships. How strong should it be? Also racial specific bonus isn't good because of the differences between fighters. |
Omnathious Deninard
M'Tar Deadspace Guard Night Sky Alliance
13
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Posted - 2012.01.30 03:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rather than a bonus to a racial fighter, you could add a role bonus of "+100% Fighter bandwith needs" limiting a player to 5 fighters or 10 drones |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
109
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Posted - 2012.01.30 04:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'm on the fence but a lot of the post so far have been just sad. Fighters cost a lot so 5 plus cargo would be a BS all buy its self in cost Can't assign fighters in .4 systems and up so the missioners can't use this in a ult assigning fighters to there main. The OMG WHATS WRONG on the forums the week after such a launch would be worth it breaking the game. But would break it at all? The place they would work best in is still low sec. And theres real carriers there. It would be cool to travel in gang tho. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |
To mare
Advanced Technology
16
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Posted - 2012.01.30 06:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Patient 2428190 wrote:Built in stabs on a combat capable ship = massive fail
yep we all know how much super carriers and titans are fail
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Wyte Ragnarok
4
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Posted - 2012.01.31 17:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
Heck. If this thing could use 10 drones, I'd skill up for this thing. It sounds awesome. Even if this "Escort Carrier" isn't implemented, CCP need to take a look at the massive gap between subcapital ships and capitals. And then again the massive gap between capitals and super caps (even though I doubt anything will be done with the latter).
Most subcapital pilots would fly with Battleship 4. For them to get into a capital (dread or carrier) then need the science and navigation skills, the Battleship 5, any associated drone/weapon skills AND capital repair systems and other capital skills. I would like to see this "Escort Carrier" or anything else that breaches the gap use subcapital modules (Large Armor Repair Systems, not Capital Armor Repair Systems).
The +2 warp strength is ********. You should make it so that if you commit this ship to a fight; you're staying there. That would be the whole point of it. I think this thing should require Battleship 5, just less requirements from the capital-like skills. Also, what would the highs do? Remote repair, gang assist mods, little flak turrets?
Anyway, love this idea! |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
115
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Posted - 2012.01.31 18:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
Well a fair trade for a mini carrier would be... Only one high slot or none.(the external ports are hard wired to allow fighters) Almost no structure, and only 50% or less of primary tank in off tank.(as most of the internal structure is need for "space" the fighters) Only 5 fighters(or less), and no ability to use Drone Control Units.
This should look like how an Orca is to a Rorqual. The one being better the other offering convenience. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |
Ahrieman
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
25
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Posted - 2012.01.31 20:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
Patient 2428190 wrote:Built in stabs on a combat capable ship = massive fail
The minnie militia will blot out the sun with these I scam on my main |
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