Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 20:49:00 -
[1]
I never thought there was much doubt about this but apparently there is. My feeling is Balrogs do indeed have wings (and no not because of the movies...from reading). But it seems there is some doubt to this so I need help in my arguments. I could re-read the Silmarillion and such but I'd rather not. Anyone know?
(And no I am not providing more info since if you don't already know what I am on about then I doubt you could help much)
|
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 20:49:00 -
[2]
I never thought there was much doubt about this but apparently there is. My feeling is Balrogs do indeed have wings (and no not because of the movies...from reading). But it seems there is some doubt to this so I need help in my arguments. I could re-read the Silmarillion and such but I'd rather not. Anyone know?
(And no I am not providing more info since if you don't already know what I am on about then I doubt you could help much)
|
Sulora
Amarr ASGARD SECURITY SHIPPING PRODUCTION SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 21:40:00 -
[3]
I'm almost 100% sure that they do, in various D&D guides/contemplations, when Balrogs make an appearance, they have wings that are on fire. NWN (Neverwinter Nights) also displays Balrogs with wings, and it's D&D based. ---------------------------------------------
Est Sularus Oth Mithas
|
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 21:48:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Sulora I'm almost 100% sure that they do, in various D&D guides/contemplations, when Balrogs make an appearance, they have wings that are on fire. NWN (Neverwinter Nights) also displays Balrogs with wings, and it's D&D based.
Yeah but Balrgos are Tolkein so canon on this has to come from him. Anyone after that may modify as they like. Apparently at one point Tolkein describes them manipulating shadow to make an appearance of wings. In another he says they spread their wings across the room so people who say no just say they made the shadow wings appear to stretch across the room.
I think they have wings though. More badass like that anyway.
|
Scythus Aratan
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 21:51:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Sulora I'm almost 100% sure that they do, in various D&D guides/contemplations, when Balrogs make an appearance, they have wings that are on fire. NWN (Neverwinter Nights) also displays Balrogs with wings, and it's D&D based.
Er, Lord of the Rings is not Dungeons and Dragons, and there are no Balrogs in D&D.
And to the OP:
"It stepped forwards slowly on to the bridge, and suddenly it drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall.."
|
Micheal Dietrich
Cynical Cartel
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 21:53:00 -
[6]
Sure they look cool but how badass can you be if you get beat up by a 80 year old man wearing a bathrobe?
___________________________
Never Forget, Never Forgive |
Araa Mu'rion
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 22:06:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Araa Mu''rion on 29/10/2007 22:07:31 Great site on all things Arda related [url=http://www.glyphweb.com/ARDA/b/balrogs.html/]here.[/url] Scroll down to read the pro and cons arguements regarding Balrog wings.
|
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 22:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Sure they look cool but how badass can you be if you get beat up by a 80 year old man wearing a bathrobe?
lol...well he is actually something over 2,000 years old (actually older but he spent 2000+ years in Middle Earth). That and of course he is something of a demi-god...of the same ilk as the Balrog...just in an old man's body but don't let that fool you. He could probably beat Chick Norris.
|
Lucifer Fellblade
Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 22:14:00 -
[9]
I don't believe they all do, no, just the main one you hear about. ------
|
Corphus
The NewOrder BORG Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 22:15:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Sure they look cool but how badass can you be if you get beat up by a 80 year old man wearing a bathrobe?
lol...well he is actually something over 2,000 years old (actually older but he spent 2000+ years in Middle Earth). That and of course he is something of a demi-god...of the same ilk as the Balrog...just in an old man's body but don't let that fool you. He could probably beat Chick Norris.
ok this thread intrigued me. and i hereby trying to attempt to derail it by throwing following into the ring:
gandalf could prolly beat chuck norris but master yoda would totally own gandalfs ass in a battle!
(FIGHT !)
|
|
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 23:14:00 -
[11]
Bearing in mind that the Maia (of which both Balrogs and the wizards are) are described as capable of shaping their physical bodies any way they like, there is no reason at all why a Balrog couldn't have massive wings if it wanted. And from when I read LOTR, I did think it implied that that particular Balrog did have wings. ------
Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts! |
InzanityFO
Taurus Inc
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 23:59:00 -
[12]
Edited by: InzanityFO on 29/10/2007 23:58:58 If the Balrog had wings, why didn't he use them to fly up again from the chasm? And he also writes: "and the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings."
|
Jago Kain
Amarr Ramm's RDI
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 00:21:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jago Kain on 30/10/2007 00:23:03
Originally by: Scythus Aratan ...there are no Balrogs in D&D...
Technically true.
Tolkien got upset with E Gary Gygax sometime before the publication of 2nd Edition AD&D. References to Hobbits, Balrogs and a few other creatures were removed before publication.
Tolkien couldn't do anything about the use of such terms as Orc, Elf, Dwarf etc., as they were already in the public domain being largely taken from various folk tales from around the world.
As a result, there are no Balrogs listed in the Monster Manual... but... if you look at the type 4 (I think; it's been a while and I lost my copy a while ago) Demon, it bears a marked resemblance to the Balrog as described by Tolkien.
So, although the creature from NWN is not technically a Balrog, it is effectively the same thing.
___________________________________________________ The game will never be over, because we're keeping the meme alive. |
Micheal Dietrich
Cynical Cartel
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 00:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: InzanityFO Edited by: InzanityFO on 29/10/2007 23:58:58 If the Balrog had wings, why didn't he use them to fly up again from the chasm? And he also writes: "and the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings."
Well atleast in the movie the wings kinda looked liked they wouldn't be very helpful as they were a bit skeletal and on fire.
___________________________
Never Forget, Never Forgive |
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 00:27:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Patch86 Bearing in mind that the Maia (of which both Balrogs and the wizards are) are described as capable of shaping their physical bodies any way they like, there is no reason at all why a Balrog couldn't have massive wings if it wanted. And from when I read LOTR, I did think it implied that that particular Balrog did have wings.
I am not sure on the changing forms thing. I think that related to their entry into Middle Earth but once there they either chose to remain locked in that form or they lose the ability. None of them ever do go about being this and that. Even Melkor, a Vala no less, never undid the damage of being burned by the Silmarils.
|
Adonis 4174
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 00:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: InzanityFO If the Balrog had wings, why didn't he use them to fly up again from the chasm?
As I recall a wizard did it. Specifically he was still tangling with Gandalf at the time. ----- Visible Implants - good for so many occasions |
Caid Lemant
Cunning Hats
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 00:35:00 -
[17]
Quote: If the Balrog had wings, why didn't he use them to fly up again from the chasm? And he also writes: "and the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings."
So, are we attributing appendages through use or visual sight? If anything it wanted the appearance of having wings or a wing like appearance, if it actually used them... who knows? Maybe they are akin to a chicken's wings or even a penguin's? Maybe it just plain loved to swim. Now as being made up of shadow and fire, would it even need physical wings in the first place? Could it somehow use heated air from its fire to propel itself, like a shadowy hot air balloon? Or maybe Gandalf just plain laid the smack on its ambiguous ass... I think that one fits. --------
There is not enough love and goodness in the world for us to be permitted to give any of it away to imaginary things. Friedrich Nietzsche |
InzanityFO
Taurus Inc
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 00:56:00 -
[18]
I see your points, as it could have non functional wings. But my second point still stands. It clearly says that it was the shadow that made it look like it had wings. But then again if he is made out of fire and shadow like you say, it clearly means that he has shadow wings and therefor wings... I'm officially confused
|
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 01:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Caid Lemant Or maybe Gandalf just plain laid the smack on its ambiguous ass... I think that one fits.
I'll go with that one. Those two fought for 10 days literally non-stop...wish we got to see more of it.
|
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 01:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Araa Mu'rion Edited by: Araa Mu''rion on 29/10/2007 22:07:31 Great site on all things Arda related [url=http://www.glyphweb.com/ARDA/b/balrogs.html/]here.[/url] Scroll down to read the pro and cons arguements regarding Balrog wings.
Thanks for the link! I had seen that ages ago and forgot about it. Glad you pointed it out to me again.
|
|
p0pup7arge7
Shooting Gallery
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 01:09:00 -
[21]
Edited by: p0pup7arge7 on 30/10/2007 01:09:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balrog#Winged_or_wingless
Who knows?
|
Sister Impotentata
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 01:12:00 -
[22]
There is no mention in the Quenta Silmarillion of the Balrog (a noun of delightfully ambiguous number) having wings. However, far surpassing in stature even such mighty issue of Angband as Glaurung, one might expect the Balrog, possessing as they do the means of great haste from place to place about the battlefield, to also be possessed of acrobatic flight. ----- TANSTAAFL
Originally by: Hostess Deconstructing the Twinkie is like trying to deconstruct the universe.
|
MorbidPenguin
Hard Corp Brotherhood Of Steel
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 02:58:00 -
[23]
No, there are no wings.
They can't kick, either.
Join in-game channel Hard-Recruiting to get signed up. |
Sulora
Amarr ASGARD SECURITY SHIPPING PRODUCTION SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 05:41:00 -
[24]
Well then, I definitely need to catch up on my D&D and re-read Lord of the Rings, because man, was I off ---------------------------------------------
Est Sularus Oth Mithas
|
Vladimir Ilych
Gradient Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 08:52:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Vladimir Ilych on 30/10/2007 08:56:01
The Encyclopedia of Arda
You may find that this helps with any Tolkien nerd type questions.
The Balrog entry has a whole subset on the "wing question".
|
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 11:48:00 -
[26]
As read in the book, the one Gandalf faces has wings, but there is mention of multiple others but no details are given regarding size or looks.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |