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Telschak
Gallente The New Order.
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Posted - 2007.12.12 09:52:00 -
[31]
I dont think secure cans should be possible to scan down with probes. Ok for using the directional scanner, thats at least farily hard and u can create safespots that really really hard to find using directional scanner. There is no defense against probes if they would work with secure cans as they do with ships (without cloak)today.
If secure cans was possilbe to probe there would be no point in hunting npc in 0.0, u would make more isk doing whatever in empire...
Plp would bust ones safespots as soon as "killed npc ships" starts ligting up som solarsystem on the map.
Define a iskfarmer btw?
From what I understand by some of the posters u see everyone that stay in "insert place in eve" for a extended period to kill npc/do missions a Iskfarmer? Have I understood u right?
Whats wrong with that, I do missions, I hunt rats, I build stuff and find stuff to make more isk so I can buy that module/ship/item/stuff that i want/need..
During my days of from work I can hunt/missioning 12-14 hours a day...
I am not "cheating" beacuse i have more time to play eve....
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Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.12 10:04:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 12/12/2007 10:04:52 Well, (whatever) farming in other game is spending a lot of time doing repetitive actions to maximize the (whatever).
So in eve, ratting is : - isk mining, - modules farming, - officer modules farming.
Nothing wrong with that unless you sell the isk for real money. Nothing wrong with preventing them from doing so neither. It's 0.0 sec after all.
-- random eve-related content -- |
Phoenus
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.12 10:33:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Siege if you put in the effort you can locate and get to anything that shows up on the scanner
And spend hours trying to get there ? Meh, yeah, I guess it can work, but I wouldn't ever actually bother doing it... you'd also need a system with enough objects around to make intermediary bookmarks (or enough bookmarks spaced-out properly), a quick hand and loads of patience. Heck, might as well just get "close enough" and manually fly the rest with a very fast ship.
Out of curiosity, how many hours used to take you to locate something like that in a system you previously had no BMs in ?
What do you think we used to do before probes came out? People used to leave ships sitting in space at "safespots" and we would hunt them down using the directional scanner, bookmarks and warp drive and finally an mwd frig when we got close enough. Those were good days.
Agreed. There used to be a considerable amount of skill involved in the old days of manually *****ing safespots.
Used to be rewarding too, because Probes weren't in the game, so people would usually sit in their safespots for hours, 'safe'.
Save EVE TV from Cancellation. |
Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.12.12 14:19:00 -
[34]
The people applauding this probably have a regular supply from farmers for their isk and officer loot needs.
Probes have NOTHING to do with this. You never could probe cans out. You lot should try looking for them sometimes... then you will see how we spot innocents.
Innocents logged in 23/7 mining in an ice field? I think not. Innocents ratting the same system 23/7 Doubtful.
Ever convo one and ask him an off question just to have him say that he was a different operator of the account for the next 12 hours?
Ever send that log to a GM for blatant farming and account sharing just to have him remain in the game? Ever catch the same one, the same way, more than once, just to petition again and have the guy remain?
Ever look at the contracts on these characters to see that they are buying 1 ammo for 1 billion isk and that the character they are buying it from has 50 accounts that are all farming in the same area in 0.0 buying his 1 ammo for a billion, or an ibis..... a warp core stab.... REPEATEDLY?
Then, ever have a thread hit these very forums called 'large scale criminal activity' just to have a CCP employee say they banned these isk farmer cartels just to see them in game the next day?
Priceless guys. But I guess this is not all blatantly obvious to anyone, I guess they are not selling their isk they must just be hoarding it just to have it....
I better go get a tinfoil hat.
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Vitelius
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.12.12 14:20:00 -
[35]
I don't see the point in this nerf either. Scans don't even show wrecks anymore! Why is this? I'd like to hear the reasoning from the devs.
They want to make 0.0 and low sec safe for ratters, is that it? What's next?
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Ghaelsto Kakram
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Posted - 2007.12.12 14:55:00 -
[36]
Make sure you have this petitioned since it might be broken with the recent changes made to the clients.
And hats off to you farmer hunters. Keep them on their toes. |
Dracorimus
Caldari 0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.12.12 15:06:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ghaelsto Kakram Make sure you have this petitioned since it might be broken with the recent changes made to the clients.
And hats off to you farmer hunters. Keep them on their toes.
Nah, much rather have them gone/banned from this game than keeping em on their toes... -
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Jimer Lins
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.12 21:01:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Siege if you put in the effort you can locate and get to anything that shows up on the scanner
And spend hours trying to get there ?
Nah, it doesn't take that long. If it's just some cans dropped at a midwarp, you can find them in a few minutes (or could), if it's at an off-line safespot, takes a bit longer and some understanding of the scanner. Longest it ever took me was a few hours, but I was curious why there were 8 anchored cans (non-secure) in the middle of nowhere. Turned out to all be empty, probably a bug- they were closer together than you could normally jet cans.
Quote: Meh, yeah, I guess it can work, but I wouldn't ever actually bother doing it... you'd also need a system with enough objects around to make intermediary bookmarks (or enough bookmarks spaced-out properly), a quick hand and loads of patience. Heck, might as well just get "close enough" and manually fly the rest with a very fast ship.
This can be done also. Before I could fly interceptors I got as close as I could to a set of cans left at what must have been a former mission site, because it was off the plane of the ecliptic. Took a while to fly the last bit under MWD in an Atron with every speed mod I could cram on it, but it was worth it. ;)
Quote: Out of curiosity, how many hours used to take you to locate something like that in a system you previously had no BMs in ?
Depends on system layout and how good you are, but anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour or more- assuming that you can warp to the object- if the object is outside the area you can get to using midwarps and offset bookmarks, you're hosed unless you want to slowboat.
Believe me when I say you can make a pretty good living just collecting the stuff people leave behind. It's amazing what people will abandon.
Also kind of sad sometimes. I found a frigate from a 2003 pilot who had been in a noobcorp since 2004 sitting in space, obviously left the game, but the ship was still there after probably 3 or 4 years. It felt like an impromptu memorial. I left it alone. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Kibbler
GOONicide
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Posted - 2007.12.12 21:59:00 -
[39]
I didn't have time to read every single post here, but I read some of the posts by people who didn't get it.
I did this a few times back in deep 0.0 in my LV days. Russian complex *****s would run these 2 6/10's every single day, and kept it all in container farms you could see on scan. I warped between planets and belts to find the trajectory the SS was made on, and after ~3 hours of warping back and forth to make safespots, I stumbled upon 13 cans. Scan's showed overseer's effects, faction modules, ammo, trash loot.. tons of stuff. Only one can was unlocked, so I made away with a good pile of Voil L and isotopes for their carriers, but destroyed the containers with effects and items inside.
This is a nerf.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.12.12 22:03:00 -
[40]
Quote: Hving cans on your scan when overview settings were unchecked *sucked*. It's a buff.
Amen to that. I'll live with farmers cans being unfindable (and how do you even *know* they were really farmers) if I can get rid of that absolute mess of clutter from my scan results.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.12 22:11:00 -
[41]
I just realized something.
This might not be because CCP wanted to nerf scanning for cans or buff farmers (that's just silly), but maybe for performance reasons.
Removing the cans from the query that fetches the data probably saves a TON of I/O, because the local unanchored objects like ships and so on are dynamically managed, while anchored objects are just stored somewhere.
Removing all that data being sent, not to mention eliminating the join, is probably a significant performance boost.
I just wish there was a way to enable scanning for only certain object classes- changing the "Use Overview Settings" box to a dropdown and saving presets of filters for scan resuls would be made of awesome.
Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Rangkai
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Posted - 2007.12.12 22:59:00 -
[42]
So why are farmers stockpiling stuff in cans in 0.0?
I wish I had known this.. i'd have had fun hunting them down.
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Jennai
The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.12 23:08:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Rangkai So why are farmers stockpiling stuff in cans in 0.0?
I wish I had known this.. i'd have had fun hunting them down.
farm npcs 23/7 with a dozen ravens, put loot in cans, run hauler to empire when cans are full.
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Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2007.12.13 01:42:00 -
[44]
Some of my best salvage has come from cans I spotted on the directional scanner. I'm very unhappy they were removed.
Worse, for me, was the removal of *wrecks* from the directional scanner. That was a huge nerf to folks who like to salvage.
My own theory about the reason is that both of these changes were intended to help mission runners. The directional scanner used to provide important clues about where the mission runners were and what sort of mission they were in, as a guide to where it might be worth launching some probes.
Every major patch since they fixed the probes has included tweaks to make it harder to find mission runners. This is just the latest.
But it's really a huge disappointment to me, these were tools I used every day. It's particularly annoying that they were "stealth" nerfs not in the patch notes. ------------------ Ironfleet.com Proposal: Automated Ore Return Vehicles |
Malcanis
High4Life SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.13 02:10:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Rangkai So why are farmers stockpiling stuff in cans in 0.0?
I wish I had known this.. i'd have had fun hunting them down.
Um where have you been this last 6 months? major topic in here.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Alanee'a Unakarakta
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Posted - 2007.12.13 02:17:00 -
[46]
i dislike all npc'ing in mmorgp, so i spit on this change in gameplay. boo.
also scanning stuff is a nice way to go trough a lazy sunday afternoon. no time to hurry, face your dreams and drift away. doo-di-doo-du-dam doo-di-doo-di-doo-du-dam-dam-da-dei
------------------ - - - -_^
send me eve-related links, and make ISK'ies @
www.unakarakta.info
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mechtech
Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2007.12.13 02:25:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Telschak
Define a iskfarmer btw?
From what I understand by some of the posters u see everyone that stay in "insert place in eve" for a extended period to kill npc/do missions a Iskfarmer? Have I understood u right?
Whats wrong with that, I do missions, I hunt rats, I build stuff and find stuff to make more isk so I can buy that module/ship/item/stuff that i want/need..
During my days of from work I can hunt/missioning 12-14 hours a day...
I am not "cheating" beacuse i have more time to play eve....
I see many players with this point of view, but I must state the following:
If you've ever traveled long distances through 0.0, you will see many players who don't fit the above description.
They have random english words for names, all fly ravens, are in the same corps with one another, were created/move corps the same exact day as most corp mates, have near perfect sec status, and (not trying to be racist), seem to be Chinese, as they will occasionally type Chinese characters into local. On top of that, they are on for more than 10 hours a day, every day, not just weekends.
That's the definition of isk farmer from a player who has experienced them.
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SumDum
AirHawk Alliance Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.12.13 02:36:00 -
[48]
Edited by: SumDum on 13/12/2007 02:36:36
Originally by: Loyal Servant I have personally made billions scanning out can farms, ships, etc.
I just blow up isk farmer cans that I cannot take. Now they have ammo stocks that cannot be found unless you happen to probe them at the location.
They never stay there.... So, this is a major boost to keeping farmers in 0.0 The only reason they leave is to get ammo, or haul loot they collect.
I will try to find one but I have a scan of a can screenshotted that had no less than 20 different chelm's and brokaras(sp?) officer modules in it down in stain.
I blew up at least 30 billion isk in modules that day. This can was at a safespot that took me at least 2 hours to narrow and mwd to in a crow.
The isk farmer was ganked the next day because he was so upset about the loss that he was speaking in english translated from another language in local and not paying attention to the fact that he failed to cloak and we were probing him out.
The location he was found and ganked at had a second can that contained probably another 30 or 40 true sansha modules.
It was by far the most damage that I had ever inflicted to an isk farmer operation.
The raven that was ganked was fully faction fitted fitted with an armor tank and a full set of chelm's cap rechargers in the mids.
I wanted to be sick, and still want to be sick. This does not deter me from scanning farmer cans in vale and venal and destroying stuff like dread guristas control tower bpcs, and other dread loot.
The farmers no longer keep stuff in the cans for extended periods like they used to, I am sure that a deterrant was my escapade in stain where at least 40 billion isk was lost in a 3 hour period.
Now they only store the days catch in these cans. The only time we have now to catch them transporting it is just before/at downtime - raiding the cans is no longer an option.
I used to think I was pretty handy with a directional, I really had no idea that it could be used this way. Course I am barely a year back into Eve so my first reaction to this change was that I was pleased they wouldn't clutter my scanner anymore.
Now I am a little perturbed as well, not that I would probably spend hours hunting down cans with slimmest chance of a large payoff by a lazy isk farmer who forgot to leave a password. It is actually good to know people have been griefing them like this though, and it disappoints me that it is now gone.
Other than server lag issues created by the need to pass those results instantly to your scanner all the time, I see no real good reason to make them unfindable now. I now would hope that CCP would change that back or make them probable at some point.
If there are people out there that go that take that much time destroying isk farmer assets I support the 100%. What say you CCP? Why were the can's pulled from the scanners?
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Maitre Yoda
Viking Clan Absolute Guardians Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.12.13 03:10:00 -
[49]
i farm therefore i like _________________ Don't Panic! |
Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.12.14 00:19:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Maitre Yoda i farm therefore i like
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