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Amarauya
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Posted - 2008.02.14 19:40:00 -
[1]
We are currently in a non-consensual war with a griefer corp. They gate camp stations when they have an advantage, dock when they don't. They only have 8 members. We have about 100 members, most of whom are miners and industrialists. We have enough isk on hand to last almost indefinitely. Their mains belong to an industrial corp in 0.0. They seem to have infinite isk to replace lost tech 2 ships. Currently, we have:
1. Made considerable improvements our ability to fight. 2. Hired 2 mercenary corps 3. Begun negotiations to join an alliance
CCP needs to make more tools available to deal with an endless, non-consensual war like this. We don't get the boundless joy of podding them in an open fight. And, we cannot continue our normal high sec operations. Some items for consideration might be:
1. Not allowing enemy ships to dock in a station, where you have an office, within 5 minutes combat initiated by either side. This would move the war into a more high intensity conflict.
2. Being able to discover all of the alts created by an account, during a war. This could be part of a new counter-intelligence skill.
3. Reduce the cost for mercenaries to war dec in a non-consensual war.
There may be other solutions too.
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Conrad Rock
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.02.14 19:45:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Amarauya 1. Not allowing enemy ships to dock in a station, where you have an office, within 5 minutes combat initiated by either side. This would move the war into a more high intensity conflict.
2. Being able to discover all of the alts created by an account, during a war. This could be part of a new counter-intelligence skill.
3. Reduce the cost for mercenaries to war dec in a non-consensual war.
There may be other solutions too.
#1 something along those lines seems acceptable, when a corporation declares war on someone, there should some kind of docking penalty, because it's all they do when you try to fight back.
#2 is ridiculous and will never happen
#3 mercenary cost is not controlled by CCP and could never be without isk printing abuse
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Richard Phallus
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Posted - 2008.02.14 19:51:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Amarauya There may be other solutions too.
While the docking mechanics may need some work everything else would appear to be working as intended. They are supposed to be able to war-dec you out of existence, CCP shouldn't save you. Save your own lazy arse. Photographs of Devs are not permitted, even if accurate and hilarious in signatures. - Wrangler
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Ieu Duin
Amarr Star Sabre Industries Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2008.02.14 19:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Amarauya
2. Being able to discover all of the alts created by an account, during a war. This could be part of a new counter-intelligence skill.
Your points are well taken. But, having a counter-intelligence skill would effectively put an end to all counter-intelligence activities because it would reduce all of that effort to a skill level. Counter-intelligence is an activity, not a skill.
Quote: There are no fair fights in EVE. If you're in a fair fight, you planned wrong.
-- Agent Li, Caldari, Galactic Defence Consortium, BLACKHAWK FEDERATION
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Darvin Felth
Memento.Mori
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Posted - 2008.02.14 20:26:00 -
[5]
You already have the answer to those 3 questions, and you know it yourself you muppet ...
FIGHT EM !!!
If you have the numbers like you say you have and they only have 8 to field, i`d say get your Dave Lister lets 'smeg em' hat on and go have some fun .. pew,pew. End of the day you will make for a better corp for the experience.
Smoking Whippets since 1967 ....
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Angel DeMorphis
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.14 20:32:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Darvin Felth FIGHT EM !!!
Except, as you didn't read from her post, they dock whenever they come close to fighting. Hence the post.
My sig taken from this site. [IMAGE REMOVED] |
Jack Jombardo
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.15 03:09:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 15/02/2008 03:10:10
Originally by: Darvin Felth FIGHT EM !!!
Industrial/Sience vis fighter only Pirate = wast of time and money
try to fight a running chicken = even more wast of time
Some changes at the war-declare system would be realy nice. Sometimes the only way for non-fighter corps or lowskill players is to leave the old corp and create a new one till the next wannbe Pirate wardecs or the old finds you :(.
To much ISK, very high skills, don't know what to do anymore? Create one man corp and declare war to some Rookies. BAD WAY and very frustrating for the Rookies!
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NightF0x
Gallente Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.15 03:24:00 -
[8]
There is no grieving in Eve...and good for them for fighting when they have an advantage. It is war after all. ------------------------------------
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2008.02.15 03:30:00 -
[9]
Hint: Examine the wardec system closely and make it more expensive for them.
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Niccolo Duku
Caldari TREASON.
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Posted - 2008.02.15 03:46:00 -
[10]
Quote: They gate camp stations when they have an advantage, dock when they don't.
It's 8 vs 100... I'd call that tactics, not sure how your dictionary works, though....
Quote: 3. Begun negotiations to join an alliance
Sounds like they're doing fairly well, actually.
Quote: CCP needs to make more tools available to deal with an endless, non-consensual war like this.
See Quote #2- I'd say you've found the most popular tool for dealing with it. Enjoy being just one more cog in a much larger machine. Ah, alliance life....
On the other hand, since they seem to have enough isk to keep going, don't expect an alliance to stand against them much better than you're doing. It's obvious there isn't a whole lot of safety in numbers. Seems I recall a small hi-sec war corporation nearly collapsing a large alliance (TRAPS anyone?)
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Mooky Jones
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Posted - 2008.02.15 04:15:00 -
[11]
Can't you simply dec their industrial alt corp and take the fight to them?
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.02.15 07:03:00 -
[12]
Hey babe, Aduro is otw. o> _________________ Burn.
Devs, ISD and GMs mod my sig for cake! \o/
CCP Navigator was here and left some green text and bars _____________ _____________ |
Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.02.15 07:08:00 -
[13]
I don't like docking games, but then again, it's tactics. Tactics which you should be able to beat even without a change in game mechanics. We on the other side of the spectrum encounter this sort of thing all the time. What you do is lay a trap.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2008.02.15 07:16:00 -
[14]
0.0 is safer for a mining corp for exactly those reasons.
They can't dock at friendly OP's, so they have to fight/log/run.
Its not a matter of "fight em."
A mining corp's business is to mine.
If they fight, business stops, which is fine as long as the battle is decisive.
So on the one hand the hostile corp stops your business, on the other hand they don't fight.
They do both at the same time, and there is no counter to it.
That's called having your cake and eat it too.
Of course Eve should have war (duh), but CCP makes the rules of war and made them badly.
Even up the rules, then lets talk about "hey war is war."
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2008.02.15 07:25:00 -
[15]
You know I just thought of a good mechanic.
Declaring corp gets 2 minute penalty to dock (same as CTRL-Q)
If you declare you better bring it not just hide in the station
Make it so CCP.
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Inertial
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.02.15 07:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Cipher7
You know I just thought of a good mechanic.
Declaring corp gets 2 minute penalty to dock (same as CTRL-Q)
If you declare you better bring it not just hide in the station
Make it so CCP.
Uh, yeah that is a horrible idea. Imagine putting a new ship together, it would take eterneties.
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Vitelius
Decorum Inc
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Posted - 2008.02.15 08:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Amarauya We are currently in a non-consensual war with a griefer corp. They gate camp stations when they have an advantage, dock when they don't. They only have 8 members. We have about 100 members, most of whom are miners and industrialists. We have enough isk on hand to last almost indefinitely. Their mains belong to an industrial corp in 0.0. They seem to have infinite isk to replace lost tech 2 ships. Currently, we have:
1. Made considerable improvements our ability to fight. 2. Hired 2 mercenary corps 3. Begun negotiations to join an alliance
CCP needs to make more tools available to deal with an endless, non-consensual war like this. We don't get the boundless joy of podding them in an open fight. And, we cannot continue our normal high sec operations. Some items for consideration might be:
1. Not allowing enemy ships to dock in a station, where you have an office, within 5 minutes combat initiated by either side. This would move the war into a more high intensity conflict.
2. Being able to discover all of the alts created by an account, during a war. This could be part of a new counter-intelligence skill.
3. Reduce the cost for mercenaries to war dec in a non-consensual war.
There may be other solutions too.
You simply can't avoid corps declaring war on you. It just happens and you have to accept it. If you're having problems with 100 members against 8, you seriously need to look at the condition of your corp. If they dock then let em dock and bore themselves to death - or lay a juicy trap for them. This is quite frankly the everyday life in 0.0 - if you're outnumbered and outgunned, you don't want to fight and then the other side complains because they don't get the fight they would have wanted. To get that fight you simply have to set up a trap or the weaker side will not engage. I'd say mercs wouldn't even bother to go against a small corp like that, it would be a waste of time and extremely boring for them. Mercs are a huge waste of ISK in this case in my opinion.
No changes to the mechanics are required, however thinking in these situations is. Simply because you can't easily find a solution doesn't mean that rules suddenly have to be changed.
As a side note, the small corps doing this stuff are usually combined from people with perhaps some PvP background and an industrial backbone. One of their characters is probably a high sec industrialist just like you, funding the PvP character that is in the PvP corp. Then they do PvP for fun and when they can't fight, they just do stuff with their industrial character... so it's usually hard to actually bore them to death.
---
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Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.02.15 08:19:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ki An on 15/02/2008 08:18:55
Originally by: Cipher7
A mining corp's business is to mine.
If they fight, business stops, which is fine as long as the battle is decisive.
So on the one hand the hostile corp stops your business, on the other hand they don't fight.
They do both at the same time, and there is no counter to it.
Sure there is a counter for it. As long as the hostiles are hugging a station they are not shooting your miners in a belt. So, either you get your guards (you do have guards, right?) to keep the hostiles at the station while your miners go about their business, or you set up a trap for the hostiles in a belt. A mining barge is a good target and make for an excellent bait as it's not too expensive.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2008.02.15 09:35:00 -
[19]
Just pay the ransom and shut up. -- And with this post, I scent this thread. Mitnal will be along shortly. Modbutton in one hand, tissue in the other. |
Cipher7
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Posted - 2008.02.15 10:40:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gaven Blands Just pay the ransom and shut up.
Just get nerfed and shut up.
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Marcus Xavier
Minmatar Xavier Institute for Higher Learning
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Posted - 2008.02.15 12:06:00 -
[21]
Perhaps your leadership team needs to establish a wardec policy. If you want to continue with mining operations, here are a few suggestions:
a) Set up an emergency HQ without an office that is 15 jumps or so away and move equipment there prior to the commencement of hostilities. b) Set up mining operations in systems without stations or in a dead-end system where you can protect your members. c) Find a few volunteers to run a series of Level 1-3 missions and mine the ore in the best for a week. d) Use exploration to find Grav sites.
You won't find much sympathy from the peanut gallery for not using your noggin' and adapting. ---------------- Mutatis Mutandis |
Kyoto Luyi
MX3 Development Zzz
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Posted - 2008.02.15 12:23:00 -
[22]
Being able to insta-dock and go "Nyah Nyah!" whenever you're outnumbered has always been one of the lame aspects of EvE wars...
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.02.15 12:29:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Franga on 15/02/2008 12:29:19
Originally by: Kyoto Luyi Being able to insta-dock and go "Nyah Nyah!" whenever you're outnumbered has always been one of the lame aspects of EvE wars...
I'm quoting this because I'm down wid-it!
And yeah, they dec (if they are - of this I have no proof) because you are obviously fairly fun to grief. A griefer going to war does it because of the human reaction. I'm betting you smack it up in local, yes? More often then not, yes, they are backed by some wealthy main who is boarded with what they are currently doing - but just shutup and fight or shutup and dock. Either way they'll get over it and move on.
At least you are fighting and have learnt from it - the amount of corps that cry foul play when this happens is large.
Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
General Aesthetics Changes Thread |
Krii Eckhart
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Posted - 2008.02.15 12:39:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Krii Eckhart on 15/02/2008 12:39:48 There is only one option mentioned before: FIGHT EM!
Belive me 8 t2 pumped ships cant stand against 100 t1 frigs (50k per one). Fit 1-2 EW mod per ship and have some fun killing em.
And about dockin tactics, lure em to gates, belts, or something. Bait badger is the best ship in game :). Use your brain, war is an a oportunity not a tragedy.
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voidvim
Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.15 14:46:00 -
[25]
Edited by: voidvim on 15/02/2008 14:48:25
Originally by: NightF0x There is no grieving in Eve...and good for them for fighting when they have an advantage. It is war after all.
yes there is, and I know of people geting ban for doing it Salvaging guide:moon materials guide |
B1FF
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Posted - 2008.02.15 16:08:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Amarauya
1. Not allowing enemy ships to dock in a station, where you have an office, within 5 minutes combat initiated by either side. This would move the war into a more high intensity conflict.
The opposing side rents an office in your station. Now this applies to you too! That's what you intended right?
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Mr Fowl
Minmatar Unity of Twelve
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Posted - 2008.02.15 16:20:00 -
[27]
I know how you feel. I've been in this game for about 3 months and I've been through 3 wars, all without consent (although there is technically a fourth one, but it doesn't really count). The first was a group of PvPers who recently formed a corp and decided to wardec a nearby corp, roughly as new. Maybe they wanted some experience fighting as a cohesive unit. Maybe they wanted to start making a name for themselves. Maybe they just wanted to screw with us. In the end, we managed to beat them with numbers (they annoyed a lot of people, and these annoyed corps helped us) and they dropped the wardec. The second was a merc corp hired by someone. Some kind of vendetta, but I'm not privvy to those sorts of things. They were surprisingly reasonable people, and we managed to negotiate peace. The third one was ridiculous. We joined an alliance to AVOID war, and a few days after joining up, we got in an Alliance war. We couldn't hold our own (I won't name the Alliance, but they weren't completely helpful). We dropped out and have been in peace ever since.
Good luck. --- "I am the flail of god. Had you not created great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you." - Genghis Khan |
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