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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 74 post(s) |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
409
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Posted - 2012.03.02 18:15:00 -
[271] - Quote
Mioelnir wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:My perspective has always been that we make a client to interface with our server and that's what you're allowed to use Oh really? Isn't it more like a pc game, soon a console game, a number of websites like evegate, an XML API and maybe a JavaScript API (more a client interface really)? Because if we take that statement literally, everyone interfacing his evemon, eft or pyfa with the API uses an interface to the server that is not allowed.
I was oversimplifying so if we're going to be forum lawyers about it, yes we make a client AND an API in order to interface with the server. :) |
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Wai Ish'inre
Intaki Armaments
0
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Posted - 2012.03.02 18:30:00 -
[272] - Quote
Are you going to be dressed as an Aeronaught at FanFest?
Also- 14 day bans are kind of a joke- if you manage to angry a community mod/dev on the forums with witty prose or lewd comments, you get a 60 day ban, what gives? |
Dirk Decibel
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2012.03.02 18:32:00 -
[273] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:
There's no discussion about changing it at this time. I'm just leaving us an out because I like to talk like I'm in court and someone's going to read this back to me in the future. It happens sometimes on the Internet.
I like that, keep it up!
Also: MUHAHAHAHAHA, locked chars FOR EVAR!1!! \o/
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Carlos Aranda
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.03.02 18:44:00 -
[274] - Quote
I do not like, how you waste time to argue for 14day bans against some chars with 3-4 months training and only a tengu on it. As long as you do not confiscate ISK and big assets, you will be always wrong.
Plz bring some stats, where the illigal ISK go to and you have to ban this guys. Ban just some accounts, who have only a char, 3-4 months old, + tengu will not change anything.
Did you ever watch how real investigators vs organized crime work? NSA remote is the trip USA is on, but it is not, how you stop anybody big in business. You have to take their assets and freeze their money. In Italy they do it better, because the have to. If there is an investigator serious, he confiscates the assets a clan. It happens often, if one boss/clan is fallen already, but they take it and then they auction the assets. This is the right sign to say, ok this guy is done. This is how you do it. If you just arrest some henchmen, nothing will change.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
360
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Posted - 2012.03.02 18:50:00 -
[275] - Quote
Wai Ish'inre wrote: Also- 14 day bans are kind of a joke- if you manage to angry a community mod/dev on the forums with witty prose or lewd comments, you get a 60 day ban, what gives?
A pay per month game is not a free forum.
Also, I am sure their current ban length comes from trying different lengths and it fits the "straighten up the casual 1 account botter" (probably the majority, wetting their pants when they notice they got banned) while still providing increasing penalties for the hard core cheaters.
What is the real deterrent is not the insta-capital penalty but a widespread feeling that you WILL be caught.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
490
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Posted - 2012.03.02 19:22:00 -
[276] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: <3 almost done then I'll go kill some people or something on the internet
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSC_56HNIxyy22qaBes73fcC6OuOZjDOJkIgk_5W-asvw1sW009ObolXulJxw Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Ntrails
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
45
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Posted - 2012.03.02 19:52:00 -
[277] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Wai Ish'inre wrote: Also- 14 day bans are kind of a joke- if you manage to angry a community mod/dev on the forums with witty prose or lewd comments, you get a 60 day ban, what gives?
A pay per month game is not a free forum. Also, I am sure their current ban length comes from trying different lengths and it fits the "straighten up the casual 1 account botter" (probably the majority, wetting their pants when they notice they got banned) while still providing increasing penalties for the hard core cheaters. What is the real deterrent is not the insta-capital penalty but a widespread feeling that you WILL be caught.
14 days is a chunk of time to anyone who actually likes to play eve online, and indeed many people who 'casually bot' do like the game. If they aren't bright enough to stop after a sharp warning, then sure you need to kill them dead - but the guys you really want are the 10 bots/VMs/VPNs etc etc who roll around in billions of ratting income every single day and RMT it. Botting for easy ships and faction goodies and pimping your ride may be wrong and it is certainly impacting the economy to a degree - but it is not the same level as the large scale Botting networks run by players to make RL monies.
The small guys will shut down once it becomes clear that it is a 'when' rather than an 'if' you get caught.
How well you catch the big fish will determine what happens next, and it is clear to me from kugu/SH/etc that these monied individuals are already up and running with new accounts, new IPs, and new/spare characters. And seriously, **** em.
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SabotNoob
Sabot Industries
42
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Posted - 2012.03.03 00:44:00 -
[278] - Quote
Part of the reason why market botting is so rampant is because updating large amounts of orders is such a pain. I posted about this in the "Give me all your little things" thread, but I'll just mention it here again and maybe you can pass it along (I know it's not your department).
Right now, if you double click on an outstanding order in your Orders window, it brings up the item's information window. Why can't this be customized so that you can have it bring up the item's market information instead? Then, when you right click and Modify Order the item, the amount is NOT highlighted, thus creating an extra step of double clicking it or Cntrl+A to highlight it and change it.
So here's the current process:
-Right click on order -View Market Details -Right click on order -Modify Order -Double click on amount in the Modify Order window -Enter
See how many steps are there? Imagine doing that over and over again to 100+ orders. IT SUCKS. I can have about 180 outstanding orders and do this manually. Trust me, the current method stinks. People are turned off by it, or resort to bots.
A more efficient way:
-Double click on order to bring up Market Details -Hit Shortcut/button to modify highlighted order -Enter new order amount (the amount in the Modify Order window is ALREADY highlighted- that eliminates the highlighting/selecting step)
Efficient, isn't it? Putting in a Buy Order should should be similar to this as well.
Again, I know it's not your department, but I'm just throwing it out there to bring attention to something I think needs fixing, and is pushing players to use bots.
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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
737
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Posted - 2012.03.03 02:03:00 -
[279] - Quote
SabotNoob wrote:Part of the reason why market botting is so rampant is because updating large amounts of orders is such a pain. I posted about this in the "Give me all your little things" thread, but I'll just mention it here again and maybe you can pass it along (I know it's not your department).
Right now, if you double click on an outstanding order in your Orders window, it brings up the item's information window. Why can't this be customized so that you can have it bring up the item's market information instead? Then, when you right click and Modify Order the item, the amount is NOT highlighted, thus creating an extra step of double clicking it or Cntrl+A to highlight it and change it.
Or simply add the "view market details" button to the "modify order" window. |
Endeavour Starfleet
682
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Posted - 2012.03.03 02:07:00 -
[280] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:
I'm not quite sure what you're asking for here. It seems to me that you're involved in business ventures which carry with them some risk. In those ventures you're clearly dealing with people you can't trust and if I'm tracking this correctly you're asking me to ensure you that if bad people do things we won't reverse the transactions and I simply won't ever make a blanket statement like that based on potential future scenarios. Everything is dealt with on a case by case basis and every business venture carries risk. CCP does not subsidize that risk for you and it's to you to determine that the isk you're gaining is being gained legally. If you're engaging in markets such as loans which are beyond the intent of our systems by design then that risk is yours.
You could make an argument that CCP should design some form of guaranteed loan system but that wouldn't be my department. Every time you make a transaction outside of the scope of our controlled systems such as the market or contract system you are choosing to accept that risk.
Thank you for your reply. I did not mean about the risk of losing ISK. I meant about the risk of being banned myself just because someone cheated / RMT in the "chain" that ends with me holding collateral. Also, I read that in other MMOs they flag players handling large amounts of ISK and I think the 100B I would get, could make me blacklisted somewhere.
My personal opinion on the subject is this.
If you ever suspect the funds you have received is generated against the EULA petition and gives as much info as you can. |
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Endeavour Starfleet
682
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Posted - 2012.03.03 02:13:00 -
[281] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Can we keep this topic about real solutions about botting instead of it becoming another "Nerf teh local" silly topic. Botting is a different matter than you not being able to get that juicy kill because a real player is paying attention. Removing local wont kill botting. Hitting report bot is the best thing we can do. If you are running into juicy bot targets report them and let CCP get teh bot remove mail. Now about this whole "Bot banz before teh Fanfest" thing. I do believe CCP has had some communication on the subject between these waves but I will say this. While I applaud your efforts on this CCP you have to keep up the pressure on these botting idiots. And continue to talk about it and continue to urge people to use the report bot function. There has been far too many able to say "CCP likes botting because of PLEX" on this forum and it needs to stop. Constant communication will help. I agree that 10 bot bans is better than a single message on the forums. However you simply cant let such rumors grow because they actively sap the morale of the active players. Even if it is as simple as "Ok report the botting idiot and let us get to work " I don't disagree that we need to be better at communicating. It's something we've highlighted internally quite often and why I spend days following these threads.
Understood I am just stating that in my opinion even simple communication can seriously help people feel they are empowered to actually do something against botters.
That's why say if a topic comes up saying "Wtf CCP why is teh botter still in mah system" You simply say "Report him and we will see what we can do " If someone says "Frak that CCP luvs them some botters for PLEX" You say "Not true report them and see how much we really luv them "
Simple but effective at getting players to actually do something. And maybe even getting more people reporting blue bots.
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Noir Elsuno
SCAR. Partisans People in Lousy Ships
0
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Posted - 2012.03.03 03:00:00 -
[282] - Quote
We will see how efficient u will do it this time. I believe I can remember a time there was a similar announcement and after all it seemed that CCP gives a **** on all replies about spotted bots, macros and hackers.
A other thing is the effect to the economy in eve. I really hate all the bothers out there, but I hope I am wrong with it, after all the years about doing nearly nothing I really can imagine that all the bothers out there makes the market thing a bit more affordable. not sure but with all that items on the market (mining, mission etc) from the botters I think it could have an effect on the markets prices too.
But like I said, we will see how restrictedly u go out for them this time. And I am not sure why, but I think cheaters (in my eyes bothers are cheaters swell) should be banned perm if they are detected.
Whats about other accounts from the same person? does they got banned aswell? If not, forget about all I wrote before, then nothing will change. |
Didi Baraccuda
PILSGESCHWADER Monkey Circus
0
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Posted - 2012.03.03 03:02:00 -
[283] - Quote
Noir Elsuno wrote:We will see how efficient u will do it this time. I believe I can remember a time there was a similar announcement and after all it seemed that CCP gives a **** on all replies about spotted bots, macros and hackers.
A other thing is the effect to the economy in eve. I really hate all the bothers out there, but I hope I am wrong with it, after all the years about doing nearly nothing I really can imagine that all the bothers out there makes the market thing a bit more affordable. not sure but with all that items on the market (mining, mission etc) from the botters I think it could have an effect on the markets prices too.
But like I said, we will see how restrictedly u go out for them this time. And I am not sure why, but I think cheaters (in my eyes bothers are cheaters swell) should be banned perm if they are detected.
Whats about other accounts from the same person? does they got banned aswell? If not, forget about all I wrote before, then nothing will change.
indeed |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
136
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Posted - 2012.03.03 05:56:00 -
[284] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Xorv wrote:Oh and another thing regard to bots. It's a good thing CCP is taking some action against those players that engage in such activity, but the best thing CCP could do is make game changes that creates an environment unfavorable to bots in the first place.
Remove Local Chat Intel from Null Sec and add random false positives to DScan.
Fix Wardecs and make NPC corps somewhere only for raw newbies or automatically part of a Faction War system.
Take the leash of the Sandbox and players themselves will sort most of this out on their own. Game design isn't my department. I'll caveat what I'm about to say having said that and also stating that I'm not responding directly to your above suggestions. We're simply not going to design our game, played by piles of people legitimately, around a few bad apples. We may make changes because they make sense from a gameplay perspective or to spice things up or for a plethora of other reasons, but we're not going to sic the design team on making it impossible to bot via complete randomization of everything or captchas or *insert flavor of the day barrier to getting things done in a videogame here*. Not addressed at you directly but it is a statement I wanted to get out there and your post gave me the shot. I'll also say that, yes design is a component of our strategy and while it may seem contradictory to what I said above it's not I just can't give specifics today.
Thanks for the reply Sreegs, your efforts in dealing with botters and communicating with the EVE community here is genuinely appreciated. Still very underwhelmed by the punishment , 14 days is barely a slap on the wrist for someone who has gone out of their way to get a third party program with the specific intent to cheat in the game.
While it is understood you did not respond to my specific suggestions, and I appreciate why,. I will say this, EVE needs holistic treatment that addresses the disease not merely treating the symptoms, and that can only be done at the design level. A lot of us are hoping that Inferno moves in that direction and really delivers. |
Endeavour Starfleet
682
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Posted - 2012.03.03 06:22:00 -
[285] - Quote
Well the forum ate my $#@%#$$ post so ill say it simple.
14 days with a 3 percent 2nd ban rate seems to be working.
Report the bots. Once they rectify the botters who do it for shiny ships and can be reformed. They can focus on the RMT and Alliance bots.
Report blue bots. Alliances can't seriously make "No report Blue Bots" rules. |
Orbit Uranus
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.03.03 07:33:00 -
[286] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Report blue bots. Alliances can't seriously make "No report Blue Bots" rules.
Alliances aren't playing EVE to be CCP's police task force on bots. Let the ones who get paid for it find the bots.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
363
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Posted - 2012.03.03 07:53:00 -
[287] - Quote
Noir Elsuno wrote: Whats about other accounts from the same person? does they got banned aswell? If not, forget about all I wrote before, then nothing will change.
They are all banned, not just the bot account(s).
Noir Elsuno wrote: A other thing is the effect to the economy in eve. I really hate all the bothers out there, but I hope I am wrong with it, after all the years about doing nearly nothing I really can imagine that all the bothers out there makes the market thing a bit more affordable. not sure but with all that items on the market (mining, mission etc) from the botters I think it could have an effect on the markets prices too.
Bots reduce spreads between buy and sell orders. To you it might seem good, but all that ISK they suck off legit traders are then converted in real money to sell with RMT. Making ISK and items in EvE is so easy that bringing the "but bots make things more affordable" argument, is really a stingy statement.
The only negative effect I foresee is that legit null-sec and WH inhabitants will grab all the benefits.
Hi sec newbies and miners? They are constantly target of "KILL THE BOT!" campaigns and now we start seeing "dilatory campaigns" with people encouraging to report everything you see (because EVERY miner really looks like a bot unless you spend 3-4 hours to see if they log off / kill them). If I was a miner in these days I'd just stop playing it. Besides the lowest rewards in game you get the highest probability to be griefed up to forced account termination.
This will cause well bigger items cost increase than banning 10 market bot accounts.
And the "14 days are a slap on the wrist" my ass. First of all if for any reason you were unjustly banned, you are flagged for life. I will believe anyone can succesfully turn CCP "bot ban" decision the day I will see a petition text saying so. Because with the current situation you are given Z E R O ways to exculpate. You take the bone in the ass and that's it. And everyone around you "well these things happens tralalalah!"
Second, even if there was a way to exculpate, you'd still get no reimbursement, your POS would go offline, if it's in low sec it will likely get destroyed (just to mention a couple of effects).
The only ones who won't be scratched by a 14 day ban are the real bot-as-profession exploiters because they certainly don't have all their assets and money tied in their disposable accounts. But there's more: they won't be scratched by 1 month or even 2 months bans. They have 10-20 disposable pilots, some of them probably in "hatchery accounts" unrelated with the ones at risk of being caught. They get new accounts also by hacking other people accounts. How much a cheater will care of a 14 day or 1 month ban done on a pilot they hacked? Zero.
On the contrary, in the next days there'll be people reporting whole (hi sec only!) constellations of unsuspecting players because "99.999999999999999999999% miners MUST be bots because I read it on the forums so it's true". Among the volume there will be guys who ALT TAB mining for 8h a day because they do it a work / work at home and their behavior will be undistinguish-able from bots. They will get banned. And no way to recourse / prove anything, the game provides them ZERO tools to, except beg CCP for mercy (I'd like to read *1* that begged CCP for unban and got believed by them).
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Consequence Zero
Non Affiliation
4
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Posted - 2012.03.03 10:21:00 -
[288] - Quote
Hypothetical Question: Why do confirmed Bot characters get a permanent ban on character trading, yet players that would prefer that very option are not allowed character sales denial etc.
As a security measure, this would make sence in my opinion.
If a player does not have the intention to ever sell his/her character, but is still at risk from a "fire-sale" from a random hack...
Maybe its an option that comes with the security key fob from last years FF.
(And no I have not been hacked, banned, or presented a fancy key fob. Just an observation i've noticed) |
Endeavour Starfleet
682
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Posted - 2012.03.03 12:13:00 -
[289] - Quote
Orbit Uranus wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Report blue bots. Alliances can't seriously make "No report Blue Bots" rules. Alliances aren't playing EVE to be CCP's police task force on bots. Let the ones who get paid for it find the bots.
You do realize this is a highly suspicious remark no?
We all lose to bots. Reporting them Blue Grey or Red will help everyone including the goons. Help CCP fix this issue so that the game is better for everyone. |
Xantor Bludberry
28
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Posted - 2012.03.03 13:25:00 -
[290] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:That's the EVE conundrum really. One of the core concepts of the game is that everything can be built, sold, bought and transferred among players. With that comes the ability to do bad things and it's really to us to solve that problem. I agree it would be simpler to turn all your items purple and bind them to your character so you can't give them to anyone ever, but then it wouldn't be EVE it would be some other game where you could more than likely still purchase things on websites on the Internet. :) Ok, I will suggest another, less than an incredible idea: remove the ability to sell game time for ISK. I believe that all evil is gone from it. |
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
364
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Posted - 2012.03.03 13:29:00 -
[291] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote: CCP has stated that absusing the report system will have consequences. And there are quite a few ways to tell bot miners from the real ones. And there is no evidence of mass false positive bans. Just alot of whiny botters.
Waiting to see *1* report about someone having had those "consequences".
Also waiting to see your infallible method for discerning an alt tabbed legit miner with "normal" name doing his stuff 8h a day vs a bot.
Xantor Bludberry wrote: Ok, I will suggest another, less than an incredible idea: remove the ability to sell game time for ISK. I believe that all evil is gone from it.
Bots were in game (in every MMO actually) well before one could sell game time for ISK. People, expecially PvPers, want ISK / shiny stuff anyway and those with fat wallets may be tempted resorting to RMT. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
voetius
Starwinders The Unwilling.
2
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Posted - 2012.03.03 16:31:00 -
[292] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Also waiting to see your infallible method for discerning an alt tabbed legit miner with "normal" name doing his stuff 8h a day vs a bot.
Maybe I can help you out here Vaerah. When you blow up a Hulk or Mackinaw and you see the pod warping off to the station and then coming back to the same spot their ship was in and "mining" in the pod for the 18 minutes or whatever it takes to fill a Hulk that would seem a pretty infallible method to me.
HTH
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Ugleb
Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
176
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Posted - 2012.03.03 16:34:00 -
[293] - Quote
Soporo wrote:Nmae and shame the Corps and, especially, the Alliances who are shown as the worst offenders and you will change the rather morose perceptions people often have about anti-botting efforts.
I'll do you one better. If an account is character locked (no transferring) for abuse, also visibly flag the characters on it to name and shame the players for their behaviour.
Maybe make it a 2nd strike thing, maybe have it expire after X time period, but I can see that acting as a strong deterrent. How many corps are going to want their pilots wandering around openly flagged for cheating? http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/ |
Belloche
Revelation Exploration Inc. Without Remorse.
19
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Posted - 2012.03.03 16:46:00 -
[294] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote: CCP has stated that absusing the report system will have consequences. And there are quite a few ways to tell bot miners from the real ones. And there is no evidence of mass false positive bans. Just alot of whiny botters.
Waiting to see *1* report about someone having had those "consequences". Also waiting to see your infallible method for discerning an alt tabbed legit miner with "normal" name doing his stuff 8h a day vs a bot. .
Vaerah, I agree with you and understand that you do not want to see a single innocent person banned. I also get that you are trying to be the voice of reason by not joining the mob with torches and pitchforks. I believe you went off the cliff! I feel that the only possible way to get what you want, CCP could NEVER BAN ANYONE AGAIN! Is that what you are asking for? It seems to me that you want CCP to tell exactly what methodology they are using to determine bots. If they say on the forums, bot programmers would incorporate that info into their programs. Since no one is infallible, I agree that they need to minimize mistakes. However, I am willing to accept 95% accuracy since this is a game and not real life.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
364
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Posted - 2012.03.03 16:49:00 -
[295] - Quote
voetius wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Also waiting to see your infallible method for discerning an alt tabbed legit miner with "normal" name doing his stuff 8h a day vs a bot.
Maybe I can help you out here Vaerah. When you blow up a Hulk or Mackinaw and you see the pod warping off to the station and then coming back to the same spot their ship was in and "mining" in the pod for the 18 minutes or whatever it takes to fill a Hulk that would seem a pretty infallible method to me. HTH
That's like saying "I diagnosed that guy's stomach: I eviscerated him and found out he was healthy indeed!". Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
365
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Posted - 2012.03.03 17:45:00 -
[296] - Quote
Belloche wrote:
Vaerah, I agree with you and understand that you do not want to see a single innocent person banned. I also get that you are trying to be the voice of reason by not joining the mob with torches and pitchforks. I believe you went off the cliff! I feel that the only possible way to get what you want, CCP could NEVER BAN ANYONE AGAIN! Is that what you are asking for? It seems to me that you want CCP to tell exactly what methodology they are using to determine bots. If they say on the forums, bot programmers would incorporate that info into their programs. Since no one is infallible, I agree that they need to minimize mistakes. However, I am willing to accept 95% accuracy since this is a game and not real life.
Well, thank you there's at least one person who understands what I want to say.
It's a tiny bit different though. I am ok with accuracy being 95%. I am even ok with super-perma banning at first strike those who run cheat software that cannot be confused with legit other stuff you could have on the computer. But I am less OK for general purpose "engines". I.e. some years ago I had Autokey installed to enable 5 mouse buttons in old games. If I still had it and CCP considered it a bannable software (or is it? No idea) I'd get banned without even knowing why. And no way to convince them I did not mean to use it for EvE!
But my biggest issue - and I am not being expecially altruistic here - is with heuristics. Ok let's imagine they have a 95% accuracy. With the previous CCP very mild attitude, 95% would be ok. You get a penalty just because you happened to be unluckly to fulfill some parameters. It would also happen once a year (when CCP felt like showing they were figthing bots, like before Fanfests or expansions etc.).
With the CCP advent of "serious mode", the same guy who happened to be in that 5% now is permanently flagged. He won't have an idea about why so he will keep playing his way and the next week the "system" (now always on, not just once a year) will detect him as cheater again.
Third case: you swap something with someone. You can't know whether he's legit or not. Was that contracted Raven Navy Issue a money laundry? Who knows. Yet you risk all sorts of issues. It's easy to say "EvE has risk, you have to accept it". No, the game risk is fine: you undock with 73 PLEXes in Iteron and get popped. Though luck. But this is RL risk (RMT induced) risk: you get an item and voil+á banned. CCP Sreegs can say: "sure just contact us and get it sorted on a personal case. Too bad *any* writing under the EULA clause of the petition system takes 2 weeks to 1 month just to be replied the first time, and those were just questions (yes I am asking CCP in game too)! In those 2 weeks one can lose all his POSes.
Now, with all the 3 cases above, it would be fine to have a 95% accuracy and indeed is VERY COMMENDABLE off CCP to finally have cranked in an high gear after years of slacking.
But what happens now is that the 95% (I am using your number as example) is going to be continuously re-checked. Imagine 99% guys "pass" this week. 1% gets banned. Then 99% of the remaining ones pass next week and 1% get banned. Then 99% next week. Sounds allright, no? Nope. Use some probability calculus and you'll see how easy will become to be in the "unlucky 1%" after some time.
This - in my opinion - prompts a need to figure out a way for the players to be able to prove their innocency. Because it gets easier and easier to be the unlucky black sheep and the consequences are harsher and harsher but without a corresponding improvement in the way to prove you were just unlucky, not a cheater. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
32
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Posted - 2012.03.03 19:24:00 -
[297] - Quote
Quote:Don't do anything bad today, Huh!?! You do know this is Eve right, where Empires are forged by doing bad things .. GBTWOW !!!!!11111
PS: Love the character lock solution, elegant in its simplicity.
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Tester128
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
0
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Posted - 2012.03.03 19:25:00 -
[298] - Quote
What you should really implement is this - if a character is banned and were petitioned as a bot before - ppl who have done this should get a nice letter - Thank you for petitioning bot %username, it is now banned for x days.
Also you should really look into missionrunning bots in highsec. |
Belloche
Revelation Exploration Inc. Without Remorse.
20
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Posted - 2012.03.03 22:20:00 -
[299] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
But what happens now is that the 95% (I am using your number as example) is going to be continuously re-checked. Imagine 99% guys "pass" this week. 1% gets banned. Then 99% of the remaining ones pass next week and 1% get banned. Then 99% next week. Sounds allright, no? Nope. Use some probability calculus and you'll see how easy will become to be in the "unlucky 1%" after some time.
This - in my opinion - prompts a need to figure out a way for the players to be able to prove their innocency. Because it gets easier and easier to be the unlucky black sheep and the consequences are harsher and harsher but without a corresponding improvement in the way to prove you were just unlucky, not a cheater.
Do you mean is there some extra software I can install on my machine (that CCP can check) to see that I was NOT a botter? Is that what you mean? I see no way to disprove a negative. Is that what you are asking?
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
366
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Posted - 2012.03.03 22:55:00 -
[300] - Quote
Belloche wrote: Do you mean is there some extra software I can install on my machine (that CCP can check) to see that I was NOT a botter? Is that what you mean? I see no way to disprove a negative. Is that what you are asking?
Here are a couple of ideas:
1) Someone reports a guy as botter => his report immediately triggers a snapshot of the reported guy computer (like the debug dump), on a low priority thread so not to disrupt his gameplay. That would avoid CCP to only use heuristics and thus have an higher chance to ban someone who does not deserve it. The dump would also help at discovering new undiscovered bots.
2) For the transactions stuff: make them actually mean their name: transactions. A guy contracts me a Supercarrier for 3rd party. Before accepting the contract I click a "start secure transaction" button on the contracts UI which instantly creates a record of the thing happening. The record will hold a time stamp and will add to a "CCP secured transactions" table and warns CCP to check that transaction. Once they find the contractor was a RMTer, every transaction between me and him past that saved time stamp is rolled back so I get back my stuff without getting banned myself. I actually warned CCP to check for that stuff so they can't put me in the same boat of that RMT guy. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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