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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.12 15:28:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Revan Neferis
I see no issues about candidates trying to express their opinion as how they feel about a subject, but basing their campaign in form of promisses and false premisses of changing aspects of game that are trully not under CSM reach makes me feel that this whole election is being misunderstood in their main objective.
It may seem like it is. But there is no other way to present ones competency and ability to rationally review issues than to show that by making arguments for or against specific changes.
If anything, the question asked of "what would you do as the minority voice" on the council is probably the best indicator. Those who are here to be legislative are going to say they should stick with the council. Those who are here to be council are likely to object and make concerns known.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.12 17:49:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Goumindong on 12/05/2008 17:50:46
Originally by: Revan Neferis ...
I am not saying that ideas are formed in stone, but that we cannot get across how we will argue, present information, or what types of arguments we are likely to support without simply doing so.
A good example is the local chat issue. There are a lot of people that want local removed[and a lot of people who want it kept]. I do not think it is a good idea. But it would be impossible for me to show how i can argue against an idea without actually doing so. Saying "Yea, i won't support bad ideas" is as hollow as "I will fix lag!". People need to know how you come to the conclusion that ideas are bad, people need to know how you come to the conclusion that ideas are good.
Similarly with refining and proposing ideas. All these things give players an idea of what a candidate values. I for instance, value the strength of small ships and the ability of ships to force others to commit to a fight. Which can be seen in my web idea thread. To enhance small ships by making sig radius more important in all sorts of combat, and to reduce the ability of ships to simply leave the engagement area. But people will not know that if i don't present them with the information. Does it mean i will necessarily present that specific idea in that iteration? No. I will present the best idea that enhances small ships and reduces disengagement ability if such an item is on the agenda.
I know it may seem like a lot of people are running on a campaign of "you're voting for my ideas when you vote for me", but i doubt that is the case in their minds or will be the case when the council gets together and starts working.
Quote: I may be naive but what I want to see is a method where the player base will propose, analize, create, discuss something with these people and they will be the intermediate of this message to ccp.
The CSMs will be taking a large part in the analyzing and discussion part of the equation, if they don't then their role is entirely extraneous. CCP could have simply implemented a poll system for the forum and the players could do it themselves.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.12 18:24:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Revan Neferis
But that is the actual fact. As Hardin and others already pointed, I believe that there is a danger on seeing CSM with more power or actually placing on the candidates functions which they can not assume. I don't believe that CSM will have any large part on major company or game developments, to the contrary, I believe that CSM will have the same function as a poll system forum ( as you stated) would have, just with a better PR imput. The marketting ideal is the focus of this whole campaign and it can turn positive or negative towards their executors, a risk which by assessment, they were wise to take.
If you think that the point of the CSM is to be a poll mechanic, then why vote? Wouldn't any candidate be better or worse than any of the others?
I firmly believe that its the advisory capacity that we will be most useful in. Identifying which concerns are reasonable, which are most important to be addressed first, and in which direction the concern is best handled. That doesn't necessarily mean its specific direction, but it is important to have that judgment.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.12 18:48:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Revan Neferis
-Identifying which concerns are reasonable, which are most important to be addressed first, and in which direction the concern is best handled. -
uncheck. I believe it's the role of the community to identify such issues and the role of the CSM representant to use his habilities to make them as priority.
That is not what the documentation says is going to happen. There is both judgment and priority. Though the CSM cannot ignore anything that the community brings up.
Check page 4 of the summary document(PDF)
Quote:
-That doesn't necessarily mean its specific direction, but it is important to have that judgment. -
More important the knowledge of how to address it and why.
Very probably.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.12 19:02:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Revan Neferis
Originally by: Goumindong Though the CSM cannot ignore anything that the community brings up.
Agreed, judment and priority on the aspect the document brings forth, it doesn't mean that automatically the candidate will have to execute the functions idependently. If this was a rule set in stone, I doubt the eve community would take such a chance.
The rule is set in stone. Any issue brought by the people voted down by the council requires a summary explanation from the council. And everything must be discussed publicly for 7 days before a vote can take place.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.12 19:45:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Revan Neferis ...
Maybe i mis-understood you. I thought you were talking about the rule that the CSM must give a summary explanation on anything they vote down for the duration of the first CSM.
Were you instead talking about the rules themselves not changing over various iterations?
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.12 20:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Revan Neferis
Yes I speak about candidates being able to understand their roles into the concept that CSM is not a pseudo Dev park, that CSM is an experience and needs to be looked upon as such in order to continue to exist and be better, that CSM may or may not work even with setting of rules this or that already in place because the variants affecting it are many and that because of it perhaps a more realistic approach from candidates towards it would be welcome at this point of the campaign.
All, i see what you are saying now. Though I am not sure what can be done to assuage the fears of the voters on that front, other than to say "nothing ventured, nothing gained"
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.14 10:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kelsin
I mean, can you point to an actively campaigning candidate that isn't willing to listen to alternative viewpoints and take them into consideration?
Jade
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