Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 08:10:00 -
[1]
Disclaimer: I love EVE, and though I have been known to mission and mine, I think PvP is an integral part of the game. This post is not a whine, but rather a genuine question.
Short version for those with limited attention spans (don't blame me if you get the wrong end of the stick from just reading this): Is the source of all these whines and crap about new vs old players drawn from the issue that vets just don't remember their starting pains and can't grasp how difficult it is starting out as a PvPer?
Long version:
Ok, so as a relatively new player observing & participating in EVE life, I got to know a player corp of pretty new players (average age 2-3 months), which for simplicity will be called Corp A. Recently they got wardecced by a veteran group of PvPers, all with negative sec status and mostly older than a year, which again for simplicity is Corp B.
Now, lots of people post whines in opposite directions about this sort of thing, whether it be PvPers complaining that new players don't undock or stay in NPC corps, or new players complaining they get ground to dust by the vets...
For my part in all this, I got to play a bit of diplomat & assist; finding mercs, teaching some of the Corp A how to fight, that sort of thing. I spoke with both sides and got a reasonable feel for how both sides see the conflict. To their great credit, Corp A wants to fight; trouble is, they're vastly out-classed, barely have any combat skills yet, and not enough cash to hire anyone else. Long story short, they're reduced to docking games.
The reason for this post is Corp B's perspective, which I found rather worrying. It wasn't the aggressive wardec or the pirating or the huge overpowering fleets I particularly took issue with; as Akita T most eloquently put a few posts ago, it's a sandbox, people are free to do all this stuff. It was the notion that they couldn't even grasp why Corp A was having trouble.
Quotes like 'we don't blob, it's only a 10 ship fleet' and 'we only brought one faction battleship that time' are deeply disturbing when their target is a new corp, barely able to fit T1 cruisers with T1 guns and certainly not fleet enough to overcome a 10 cruiser/battlescruiser/battleship fleet. They can't even understand why Corp A just can't see the point after a string of fairly overwhelming defeats.
The reason I mention all this is because this Corp A, these are the people we want in EVE. They're not sitting in NPC corps, they're not carebears (mostly ), they want to fight, they're out to make a new addition to the corporate environment and be involved. Yet they're being mercilessly ground into the dust by people who can't even see why they aren't getting war targets any more. To (slightly edited) quote one player: "since we started out by wanting to fulfil mining contracts, I've only just got mining barge, I can barely fly a cruiser and have rubbish gunnery, what the heck am I supposed to do against a T2 fitted battleship and escorts?"
Is this common? Have the vets become so used to 0.0 blobs and low-sec HACs & carriers and so on, that they've forgotten there are new players in this game? More importantly, have they forgotten how it was for them starting out? Is this what EVE PvP is supposed to be about? What did Corp A do wrong?
Constructive opinions welcome; indeed if you are a vet and can share a starting out experience that shows how you avoided this, all the better. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot." |
Shakuul
Caldari Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 08:31:00 -
[2]
They did nothing wrong. Well, maybe their problem was having a corp FULL of noobs. Ideally, you want to find a relatively rich benefactor or two out there. It was just as harsh for them, if not more, when they started out. On the other hand space was emptier so they might not run into as many hostiles... Also, you could just pack your bags and start a new corp. If you don't have too many corp assets you can basically create a clone corp, rerent all of your offices and move everyone to that one. The aggressor has to drop another 100mil for the wardec (unless they wait until their original war ends). As I understand it, you can keep doing this every 24 hours (the time it takes to switch corps since you must drop roles and wait).
But seriously, you have no idea how easy you guys have it. Warp to zero? All of these wonderful API tools? Non-tankable concord? All of these rich players with start up corps that offer 5mil ISK signing bonuses? A very well developed market with every T1 ship class available for purchase at 5% above minerals? Other players with extensive game knowledge?
|
cal nereus
Koshaku Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 08:39:00 -
[3]
It's not about how new players have it compared to how older players had back then.
The issue brought up by the OP is how vets complain when significantly younger and lower-skill players try to use the few advantages they MIGHT have to try to turn an otherwise hopeless situation into a fighting chance.
Now, I'm a moderate-age player (more than a year, but less than two). I'm veteran enough to get all the basics of PvP, even if my skill points are still less than I would like. For me, I love new players and I appreciate the fact that it is harder for them to fight a higher-SP group. That's pretty much been the story of my PvP life (even now). However, things like willpower/determination, attitude, organization, and of course numbers, can make up for the lower skill points and limited experience.
When a vet complains when new players don't fight evenly, it's like a heavy-weight boxing champion complaining that a little girl brings friends to a fight.
However, I think the OP is overestimating the numbers of vets that are that illogical. Most of us understand that lower-SP players need to make up for obvious weaknesses with other tactics: such as bringing greater numbers. ---
Join BH-DL Skills |
FIX IT
Repo Industries R.E.P.O.
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 08:40:00 -
[4]
Not every corp deserves to survive. Clearly some corporations grow and prosper, others fail. Getting a bunch of non combat skilled people together, with little game and pvp experience and poor leadership is not an easy path.
You can alway join a corp that has a greater number of more skilled players, who have the money and resources to assist you. "Ow but I wana play with my buddies and I wana be in charge!!!" - fine, but when you grow a bit and become a juicy target don't be shocked when someone comes to take your toys.
Can you fight back? Yes. Will you need to spend some time training fighting skills and not mining? Yes. What could let you kill the enemy? Blackbirds + ruptures/vexors/thoraxes/arbitrators. And more blackbirds. + a competent fleet commander. |
techzer0
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 08:46:00 -
[5]
Originally by: FIX IT Not every corp deserves to survive. Clearly some corporations grow and prosper, others fail. Getting a bunch of non combat skilled people together, with little game and pvp experience and poor leadership is not an easy path.
You can alway join a corp that has a greater number of more skilled players, who have the money and resources to assist you. "Ow but I wana play with my buddies and I wana be in charge!!!" - fine, but when you grow a bit and become a juicy target don't be shocked when someone comes to take your toys.
Can you fight back? Yes. Will you need to spend some time training fighting skills and not mining? Yes. What could let you kill the enemy? Blackbirds + ruptures/vexors/thoraxes/arbitrators. And more blackbirds. + a competent fleet commander.
Problem solved with this post
I wish more corps would see this as an option ------------
Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
|
ZenTex
Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 08:54:00 -
[6]
This issue will never go away. All veterans were outclassed at some time, all corp started from scratch and had to live with "vets" outclassing them in every asapect who were after them.
I myself joined a corp as a newbie in 2004, which was promptly wardecced by a merc corp. We were outclassed, outgunned and outsmarted in every way. Thay had the knowledge, isk and skillpoint to make out life hell. For us newbies (we had something of 3-4M SP's avergae at the time) it was hell and we had no chance at all to fight them.
Now us 2004 chars can be considered vets.
Yeah, we've all been there, done that, bitten the dust and went on. Life isnt easy as noobs, but we all have to learn from it. There's little a sledgehammer can't fix. If you can't fix it, you need a bigger sledgehammer. If it's unfixable, blame CCP. :p
|
ArmyOfMe
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 08:55:00 -
[7]
Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 17/05/2008 08:55:59 just remember that good tactics is always the best way to beat ppl with higher sp
|
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 09:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: cal nereus However, I think the OP is overestimating the numbers of vets that are that illogical. Most of us understand that lower-SP players need to make up for obvious weaknesses with other tactics: such as bringing greater numbers.
Well that's more what I was asking: is this a common problem, or just unfortunate chance? It's hard as a single person in a big EVE world to see if this affects a large group of people or not, hence my query.
Originally by: FIX IT Can you fight back? Yes. Will you need to spend some time training fighting skills and not mining? Yes. What could let you kill the enemy? Blackbirds + ruptures/vexors/thoraxes/arbitrators. And more blackbirds. + a competent fleet commander.
Useful to know (well I knew it already, I'm meaning for anyone who happens on this thread at a later date), and really therein lies the issue. New players don't know about much of this, heck I struggled to explain EW to some of them, and they do struggle with the whole concept of fleet command.
On the one hand, the sort of experience I describe is useful learning for them to gain all that knowledge, but on the other, they need to actually survive and remain in the game and all that to use that knowledge. From my perspective, it's critical to remember when attacking a corp not to over-fish, to leave more experienced (and with sufficient cash) targets (or indeed friends and converts) for tomorrow. Of course all that goes out the window if you're attacking to destroy, to make a point or for personal reasons.
I suppose it comes to down to some easy kills today versus some good fights tomorrow ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot." |
cal nereus
Koshaku Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 09:10:00 -
[9]
Exactly right, Astria. Learning from these experiences and persevering into the future will make you and your corp-mates stronger. It's true that a lot of young corporations experience this sort of thing, but most older players have experienced it too, and those that survived it went on to bigger and better things. ---
Join BH-DL Skills |
Barsexual
Caldari Castle Greyskull
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 09:20:00 -
[10]
EVE IS NOT FAIR and NEVER WILL BE. Once you get that through your head, you can't be "griefed". These whiny threads are getting really ******* pathetic.
|
|
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 09:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Barsexual EVE IS NOT FAIR and NEVER WILL BE. Once you get that through your head, you can't be "griefed". These whiny threads are getting really ******* pathetic.
Heh, 10 posts before I got someone who can't read. I think I did well. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot." |
Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 09:58:00 -
[12]
New players should hook up with old players.
In Eve there is a synergy between newbs and vets teaming up, it pays to have a mixed fleet of larger and smaller ships.
2 frigates would have trouble taking down a target.
2 BS would have trouble catching the target.
1 BS 1 frigate could catch and kill a target.
The last thing you want to do is have a corp of all newbs. Newb CEO's are the bane of Eve, they have griefed more players out of Eve by incompetence than all the wardecs combined.
|
Disco Flint
The Flaming Sideburn's Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 09:59:00 -
[13]
You obviously need a lot more blackbirds :)
Seriously tho, as has been suggested, use T1 throwaway cruisers with EW support and when going down take one of their toys with you. You can lose a hundred of cheap Thoraxes, Ruptures and Blackbirds for one HAC or faction ship.
No doubt it will be tough, and after a day or two of nothing but losses morale will be low, but eventually you'll get them on the wrong foot.
How to avoid this kind of situation? I'm afraid that's not possible, there'll always be people looking for easy targets, and with only like 30mins of checking corp infos and bios one can find such easy targets. Unless you stay in the starter corps or join an alliance that can protect or at least fight alongside you, such a situation can't be avoided.
I'll gladly donate a few mil to the fighting noobs btw, people new to EVE always remind me of my noob times, contact me ig :)
|
TimMc
Gallente Genos Occidere
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 10:06:00 -
[14]
Welcome to Eve Online, where the new learn through the brutal pain and punishment brought upon them by the old.
Its how the game works, adapt or die.
|
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 10:29:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cipher7
New players should hook up with old players.
In Eve there is a synergy between newbs and vets teaming up, it pays to have a mixed fleet of larger and smaller ships.
2 frigates would have trouble taking down a target.
2 BS would have trouble catching the target.
1 BS 1 frigate could catch and kill a target.
The last thing you want to do is have a corp of all newbs. Newb CEO's are the bane of Eve, they have griefed more players out of Eve by incompetence than all the wardecs combined.
Succint, accurate, to the point.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 10:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Shakuul They did nothing wrong. Well, maybe their problem was having a corp FULL of noobs. Ideally, you want to find a relatively rich benefactor or two out there. It was just as harsh for them, if not more, when they started out. On the other hand space was emptier so they might not run into as many hostiles... Also, you could just pack your bags and start a new corp. If you don't have too many corp assets you can basically create a clone corp, rerent all of your offices and move everyone to that one. The aggressor has to drop another 100mil for the wardec (unless they wait until their original war ends). As I understand it, you can keep doing this every 24 hours (the time it takes to switch corps since you must drop roles and wait).
But seriously, you have no idea how easy you guys have it. Warp to zero? All of these wonderful API tools? Non-tankable concord? All of these rich players with start up corps that offer 5mil ISK signing bonuses? A very well developed market with every T1 ship class available for purchase at 5% above minerals? Other players with extensive game knowledge?
We had a way easier time. Hom many veterans with x4-5 times ou SP and full T2 equipped ship were attacking us?
2 years ago a fully equipped T2 ship was a rarity for ultra rich players, now it is a norm in PvP but new players haven't the skills or isk for it.
|
Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 10:41:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 17/05/2008 10:42:39 Edited by: Lord WarATron on 17/05/2008 10:41:50 A lot of the problem is noob ceo's running corps as solo players insted of as a corporation.
The first thing any noob ceo should do is start by making a stockpile for war. I.E Dozens of spare frigs, cruisers, Battlecruisers etc all prefitted and ready to go. He should be telling his corpmemebers what skill sto train so they can actually use these ships. He should be rallying his corp around this goal so that when the wars happen, and wars will happen eventually, then the noob corp can at least fight or even have enough resources to fight back or even hire people to help.
But too many corps are just a bunch of solo players with a chat channel with tax going into the ceo's personal wallet insted of working like a corporation. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Val Vympel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 11:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cipher7
New players should hook up with old players.
In Eve there is a synergy between newbs and vets teaming up, it pays to have a mixed fleet of larger and smaller ships.
2 frigates would have trouble taking down a target.
2 BS would have trouble catching the target.
1 BS 1 frigate could catch and kill a target.
The last thing you want to do is have a corp of all newbs. Newb CEO's are the bane of Eve, they have griefed more players out of Eve by incompetence than all the wardecs combined.
Agreed.
I have been playing EvE for one year. I was recruited into a "noob" corp during my first week of play. Of the 14 members of that Corp...I am the sole survivor. Not one of my original corp mates have logged in since Oct.07.
And...I know for a fact that two of the members quit due to feeling "duped" by the CEO.
I have and always will advocate far more stringent requirements for starting a Corp. It is far too cheap and easy.
Vets as whole,IMO havn't really lost perspective,they just have a vastly different perspective tempered by their experience. Note:I don't however subscribe to the vet notion of "we had it hard" or "compared to 03' you got it easy" Bah!..personal experience is relative and situational.
As a noob I learned very quickly...
Fly with a vet...learn or you will burn.
Cheers
|
SCSPOOK
Caldari 16th Interspacial Dynasty The 11th Hour
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 11:06:00 -
[19]
Edited by: SCSPOOK on 17/05/2008 11:14:08
Originally by: Barsexual EVE IS NOT FAIR and NEVER WILL BE. Once you get that through your head, you can't be "griefed". These whiny threads are getting really ******* pathetic.
The ye olde "EVE IS NOT FAIR and NEVER WILL BE." retort.
The retort of the underlings of real life who find strength in a pixalised world with spaceships and intangible weapons. The meek who inherited a cruel world who have found a place within it where they can be "strong".
Did you even read what the OP typed?
His point is a valid one.
You fail. Read it again.
Eve is a entity where those who are prey can become predators. In EVE, more often than not, they take it to the extreme and are the games worst enemy. Their excuse lays in the answer, "EVE IS NOT FAIR and NEVER WILL BE." And in justification of their actions, they destroy that which exists around them and is the reason for the existance of their strength.
Quote: I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be. ...
Thomas Jefferson
|
Molpadia Devaux
Minmatar Applied Creations
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 11:13:00 -
[20]
View from left field.
A wardec is in effect a bribe to CONCORD to allow you to attack players in another corp without suffering retribution by CONCORD.
CONCORD as a game element is to give a small sense of security to new players. In game terms CONCORD is designed to shield new players in high sec from the dangers of low sec.
My proposal: Before a wardec is issued the market value of all ships owned by members of each corp is added up, as are the COMBAT SP of each member. The cost of your bribe to CONCORD is based on the difference between the 2 corps. The cost for an even match is low, say 100millon. If you want to wardec a corp that you are 1000 times stronger than, the cost is 10billion.
Point 2.A pod kill or any attack by a smaller corp on members of the larger corp negates the wardec surcharge.
Effect of proposal: Fighting an even match should excite true PvPers. There would be no change in the current wardec system. If you want to gank a bunch of newbs then you have to pay for the privilige.
Opinion. Eve is a harsh game. Without a minimum of security to allow new players and new corps to develop, growth is severly limited. This is not a carebare proposal. Without new players Eve cannot grow. I am all for PvP, I am firmly against ganking.
|
|
cheesyhead
Minmatar Cruoris Seraphim
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 11:24:00 -
[21]
First of all i'd like to say that with my (almost) 2 years of PVP experience. (small gang warfare)i want to consider myself a semi-pvp veteran.
Now corp A was doomed the day they started. In my personal opinion new people should join more experienced corps so that they can learn and have some time of training "protected" if I may, by the older players. Now this does not mean they can not try. I encourage new corps to join the Eve universe and start pvp'ing. However you will always have the cowards such as "corp B" trying to blow your corp to bits.
And yes, i do find corp B cowards. And i bet they're the same people who complain about blobbing and unfair fights all the time. Of course as a pirate myself i enjoy griefing and will blow up everything i can and runs into me. However my corp members and i will not like to war dec a corp who cannot bring fair ( and therfore fun) fights. Yes corp b is free to do what they want, but in my opinion theyre hypocritical cowards.
|
Redbad
Minmatar Tempered Steel Legion
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 11:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Molpadia Devaux View from left field.
A wardec is in effect a bribe to CONCORD to allow you to attack players in another corp without suffering retribution by CONCORD.
CONCORD as a game element is to give a small sense of security to new players. In game terms CONCORD is designed to shield new players in high sec from the dangers of low sec.
My proposal: Before a wardec is issued the market value of all ships owned by members of each corp is added up, as are the COMBAT SP of each member. The cost of your bribe to CONCORD is based on the difference between the 2 corps. The cost for an even match is low, say 100millon. If you want to wardec a corp that you are 1000 times stronger than, the cost is 10billion.
Point 2.A pod kill or any attack by a smaller corp on members of the larger corp negates the wardec surcharge.
Effect of proposal: Fighting an even match should excite true PvPers. There would be no change in the current wardec system. If you want to gank a bunch of newbs then you have to pay for the privilige.
Opinion. Eve is a harsh game. Without a minimum of security to allow new players and new corps to develop, growth is severly limited. This is not a carebare proposal. Without new players Eve cannot grow. I am all for PvP, I am firmly against ganking.
You'd better not do that, the option of ganking/griefing/distortion, should always be there. EVE is harsh it should remain like that. Although I agree if the relative challenge from a wardec was known beforehand you could get better fights and more ISK out of your wardec.
RB
|
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 11:48:00 -
[23]
Against good PvPers of equal or large numbers, the newbies won't be making any kills. Just one Falcon or Guardian waiting in the wings of the high SP players (or a fleet of nano-ships) cannot be feasibly countered by any equal or lesser fleet of newbies. Veterans need to remember that a newbie Omen will only do 100-120dps or so, and not 300dps.
As for the war-deccing corp, it makes sense for them to declare war on a newbie corp. If there is one thing newbies are generally poor in (besides SP/isk), it is judging the odds and avoiding fights. As an experienced player I rarely get into a fight I am not willing to fight.
Best strategy for Corp A is to have Corp B become overconfident and start making mistakes.
It is incidentally one of CCP's goals for factional warfare. CCP recognize that about 70-80% of newbie encounters with PvP are basically non-fights (they are so lopsided, the newbies don't stand any chance). Of course, such fights generally don't encourage newer players to seek more PvP.
One of the attractions of EVE is a feeling of empowerement. Most PvP generally leaves newbies feeling disempowered.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Molpadia Devaux
Minmatar Applied Creations
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 11:52:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Redbad
Originally by: Molpadia Devaux View from left field.
A wardec is in effect a bribe to CONCORD to allow you to attack players in another corp without suffering retribution by CONCORD.
CONCORD as a game element is to give a small sense of security to new players. In game terms CONCORD is designed to shield new players in high sec from the dangers of low sec.
My proposal: Before a wardec is issued the market value of all ships owned by members of each corp is added up, as are the COMBAT SP of each member. The cost of your bribe to CONCORD is based on the difference between the 2 corps. The cost for an even match is low, say 100millon. If you want to wardec a corp that you are 1000 times stronger than, the cost is 10billion.
Point 2.A pod kill or any attack by a smaller corp on members of the larger corp negates the wardec surcharge.
Effect of proposal: Fighting an even match should excite true PvPers. There would be no change in the current wardec system. If you want to gank a bunch of newbs then you have to pay for the privilige.
Opinion. Eve is a harsh game. Without a minimum of security to allow new players and new corps to develop, growth is severly limited. This is not a carebare proposal. Without new players Eve cannot grow. I am all for PvP, I am firmly against ganking.
You'd better not do that, the option of ganking/griefing/distortion, should always be there. EVE is harsh it should remain like that. Although I agree if the relative challenge from a wardec was known beforehand you could get better fights and more ISK out of your wardec.
RB
At what point in time was an established corp not a new corp? CCP has an interest in retaining players for the long haul. The proposal is not ment as a game play issue per say, but as a means for CCP to keep newer players in the game and active. A small consession for the long term health of the game. There are many game mechanics that favor the ganker all in the name of 'sandbox' theory. many of which have no valid basis.
For example, I insure my house, then commit the criminal act of burning the house down. Can I expect the insurance to pay? Whereas in the game, I pod kill someone and then lose my ship to CONCORD I get the insurance. Is this mechanic balanced or is the mechanic designed to favor the ganker?
|
FellRaven
Minmatar GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 11:58:00 -
[25]
Just bear with me while I don my Nomex overalls.
As a noob I learnt a lesson each time I was ganked by some Pirate or other, I would look at what I could have done and what skills I was missing. That is of course good. I was lucky as my first Corp was actual 2 an Empire Training Corp and a 0.0 PvP Corp and being able to talk and fly with more experienced players helps alot.
I've also spent a short time pirating (Not often Solo I'll admit) in low sec.
The thing is I've never seen the need for the War Dec system at all. There are plenty of 0.0 space including NPC and there is plenty of Low Sec. Why do you need empires wars?
Eve is a game we all pay to play and that includes the carebears and frankly the sandbox analogy applies to everyone, they have rights too! I'd suggest that Corps be able to declare themselves "No Declareable" or "Declareable" Then all those who want empire wars can play with other like minded people.
Finally I suspect with this upcoming release this might all be changing anyway.
|
Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 13:57:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 17/05/2008 13:59:43
Originally by: FellRaven Eve is a game we all pay to play and that includes the carebears and frankly the sandbox analogy applies to everyone, they have rights too! I'd suggest that Corps be able to declare themselves "No Declareable" or "Declareable" Then all those who want empire wars can play with other like minded people.
Finally I suspect with this upcoming release this might all be changing anyway.
NPC corps are "No Declarable". If people want to avoid wardecs, then there is no point at all joining a player corp since the whole point of player corps is that people can wardec you in exchange of the benifits of such a corp.
If you create a player corp, it becomes "Declareable". Otherwise its pointless having players setup corps to do what NPC corps currently do. Its like playing chess and wanting rules that one side cannot loose any pieces. Its like playing Starcraft and adding a rule where nobody can die.
What some people forget is that player corps should be working as corps and not as a collection of solo players. This is usually down to CEO's running corps like Isk farmers insted of running corps like.... you know, actual corporations.
The first thing a player corp should do is set itself some goals for its first wardec. It will get wardeced eventually so planning ahead is key. Thats what corp tax is for as well as all the other facilities that corps have (such as mining ops etc etc).
The problem is that you get lots of noob ceo's who do not understand how to run a corp, or are a scammer who setups a corp for the purposes of leeching off their members (It really is shocking how many 100member+ corps are setup as scams). This just create a boring experience for their members. Its not CCP's fault that corps do not build up stockpiles for dealing with wardecs or even saving enough to hire people to help them. Its the players fault themselves.
--
Billion Isk Mission |
FellRaven
Minmatar GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 14:44:00 -
[27]
Are but you miss the point. In most sports you complete against people of the same ability. The issue here is bullying picking on the weak I'm not aware of any civilised society that condones that.
Nobody has answered the question as to why we even need War Decs when game mechanics allow for PvP without it.
I see your point about NPC corps but perhaps people want to be social not everyone is here for PvP.
|
Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 15:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: FellRaven Are but you miss the point. In most sports you complete against people of the same ability. The issue here is bullying picking on the weak I'm not aware of any civilised society that condones that.
Seriously? Every civilised society is in one way or another based on picking on the weak. Who the hell do you think makes sure your shoes remains reasonably priced?
Originally by: FellRaven
Nobody has answered the question as to why we even need War Decs when game mechanics allow for PvP without it.
Remove Concord and we won't need war decs. Oh, and sentry guns.
Originally by: FellRaven
I see your point about NPC corps but perhaps people want to be social not everyone is here for PvP.
Then find another game, because this one is all about the pvp.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
|
Stakhanov
Metafarmers
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 15:21:00 -
[29]
Why are wolves attacking sheeps ? It's so unfair , poor sheeps did nothing to them.
|
Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 15:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: FellRaven Are but you miss the point. In most sports you complete against people of the same ability. The issue here is bullying picking on the weak I'm not aware of any civilised society that condones that.
Nobody has answered the question as to why we even need War Decs when game mechanics allow for PvP without it.
I see your point about NPC corps but perhaps people want to be social not everyone is here for PvP.
LOL at your bullying comment and civilised society. How many sports have you heard of that have players of equal skill taking part? Next time I play chess vs a Grandmaster, I will remind him that he must be uncivilised for being better at a game! lol
Next you ask what is perhaps the biggist comedy question I have ever heard. Why have wardecs? Eve is a game where losses mean something. Wardecs force people who run to empire to rebuild to be attacked. It forces incompetent corps to shape up and forces corps of solo players to work like a corporation.
People who want to be social should join chat channels as many of them do. Players corps EXIST to be wardeced. If you dont like it, then stay in NPC corps. The main thing that puts people off eve is not so much wardecs, but incompetent CEO's and corps run as a scam that do not care less about the average memeber and throw them to the sharks as well as those that promote a crappy and boring style of eve play. If you want Sim City style play, then thats fine as long as it does not stop others from playing the game as it is meant to. --
Billion Isk Mission |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |