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lethario desrtuction
42 Inc PROBABLE CAUSE
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Posted - 2008.05.17 15:56:00 -
[31]
Astria--- Contact me in game after the weekend send me a mail.Best thing a new corp can do is join a alliance.(make cost of war dec $$$$ rise and lets the veterans have some fun teaching the new guys what to do. All I ask is that the corp that has been war dec'd enjoys the game. We charge 1 mill per month(ccp charge for alliance fee's) If they join us the dec carries over to the alliance and we will help the situation offering T2 pilots. Our alliance is a free spirit we will not run their corp or tell them what to do in game, But we will help for free !!! So please get in touch with me Lethario
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FellRaven
Minmatar GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.17 15:59:00 -
[32]
The funny thing is you all answer by saying nothing.
In Sport teams are often placed in leagues by ability or age. Boxers by size etc etc. I've always been in PvP corps, I've always PvPed but I've never needed to War Dec a noob corp to make myself feel big or to find PvP.
Just explain to me why you feel that you are incapable of PvPing in low sec and 0.0 and why you need to War Decs against noob corps.
As for the "This game is about PvP" where does in say that during the Tutorials when you start.
I'm not suprised that those in favour of Empire Wars defend them but again I say if you want to PvP fly to Low Sec or 0.0 where people fire back. Clubbing seal pups isn't sport.
It seems what people want to do in Gank not PvP. My suggestion was that Corps have the Option to Opt in or Out. Why is this so bad is it perhaps because you won't get all the easy kills anymore.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.17 16:22:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 17/05/2008 16:23:42
Originally by: FellRaven The funny thing is you all answer by saying nothing.
In Sport teams are often placed in leagues by ability or age. Boxers by size etc etc. I've always been in PvP corps, I've always PvPed but I've never needed to War Dec a noob corp to make myself feel big or to find PvP.
Just explain to me why you feel that you are incapable of PvPing in low sec and 0.0 and why you need to War Decs against noob corps.
As for the "This game is about PvP" where does in say that during the Tutorials when you start.
I'm not suprised that those in favour of Empire Wars defend them but again I say if you want to PvP fly to Low Sec or 0.0 where people fire back. Clubbing seal pups isn't sport.
It seems what people want to do in Gank not PvP. My suggestion was that Corps have the Option to Opt in or Out. Why is this so bad is it perhaps because you won't get all the easy kills anymore.
Imagine a game of starcraft.
All losses are permanent after all, if you lose a unit, he is gone forever. However, you meet various "Sim City" players who do nothing other than build a base.... and thats it!.
thats fine, because you can tear this base down. What you are asking for is a "Opt Out" option. So that Sim City player can simply make life boring by having nobody able to attack him. It would defeat the point of multiplayer starcraft if people had a Opt out option, would it not?
Eve would be the same. New players have plenty options. Its never the new players fault, its always been the seriously crap CEO or a scammer made corp that suffers badly from these wardecs. I see noob corps have fun all the time vs stronger opponets since thet have built up a stockpile and have fun blowing it away. Its the incompetent player runs corps that leave new players to the sharks that are the problem. Player corps need to be run as corporations since virtually every noob corp that had died does so because they act as a collection of solo players insted of working as a corporation.
The issue is not the players, it never has been. Its the hediously bad leadership. Time and time again the same thing crops up. People blaming everything apart from bad leadership.
And before you try to give me a lecture, you do have to remember that a couple of years ago, me and a mate ran a corp of noobs. That corp that survived through 3 similtanious wardecs, and lived in lowsec for months. Thats right, new players a couple of weeks old just joining up and getting supported straight into lowsec. I know what noobs should do if they are running a new corp - and that is running a corp as a Corporation and not as a colletion of solo players.
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Billion Isk Mission |
libertarian cole
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Posted - 2008.05.17 16:25:00 -
[34]
Excellent topic Astria. When i was a noob i was recruited into a noob corp with an incompetent CEO. Me and the other corp mates rebelled, banded together, and created our own noob corp. We still had just about nothing when we were war-decked by an experienced pirate corporation. The corp quickly dissolved and most of us ended up joining more experienced corporations.
My life as a noob in EVE really only taught me one thing: Run from PvP, screw honor, screw a backbone, screw being an easy target for some ganker, and just run. The early game ganking may be a game mechanic that we all have to live by, but older players should learn what the consequences of this game mechanic are. If you gank new players early and often they learn to hate PvP.
Some of you talk about using fleets of cruisers to take out BS fleets, or using 'tactics' to somehow trip them up eventually. Do you remember how much ISK you had when you were a new player? I certainly couldn't afford to keep fitting and losing T1 cruisers. Its just not a viable tactic, and if it was people would actually use it (if you have examples of it effectively working, please share, but from what iv seen the older corps just has way too much experience to lose anything to noobs).
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Deej Montana
Caldari Outbound Flight
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Posted - 2008.05.17 16:30:00 -
[35]
To the OP; just take a look at some of the comments from the "veterans" in this thread for your answer.
I think most of these selfish, arrogant semi-sociopaths could care less if any new players ever signed up again. "How dare they ruin my game by showing up and not instantly know everything that I learned over the course of years? Adapt or die noobs! Eve is harsh! Some don't deserve to survive..."
Just remember all you mean-spirited vets that CCP exists as a corporate entity to make money. They make money primarily by selling subscriptions to Eve. CCP does not provide Eve solely for you so that you may flex your e-peen, bully others and generally compensate for your miserable real lives by acting like asshats. Without new players signing up and remaining in game after the trial there will be no revenue stream and ultimately no Eve. If that happens you'll have to go back to pulling wings off flies and torturing small animals as your means of entertainment.
As some of you are apparently totally devoid of any humanity judging from the tone of your posts, I fully expect to be lambasted for my opinion. Have at it if you wish. I'll continue my "carebearing" ways and doing what I can to assist newer players as I ignore your trollish remarks.
P.S. Take offense to my comments? Good! Quit acting like self-satisfied *****s and help the new folks instead of terrorizing them and these comments won't apply to you. Have a swell day now, ok?
Carebear? You say that like it's a bad thing.... |
Nomore Telindus
Gallente Pangalactic Punks n' Playboys Omega Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.17 16:53:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Lord WarATron And before you try to give me a lecture, you do have to remember that a couple of years ago, me and a mate ran a corp of noobs. That corp that survived through 3 similtanious wardecs, and lived in lowsec for months. Thats right, new players a couple of weeks old just joining up and getting supported straight into lowsec. I know what noobs should do if they are running a new corp - and that is running a corp as a Corporation and not as a colletion of solo players.
And what happened with this corp? Are you lost your interest?
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Ico Seduvaar
Uninvited Guests Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.17 17:01:00 -
[37]
Originally by: cheesyhead Now corp A was doomed the day they started. In my personal opinion new people should join more experienced corps so that they can learn and have some time of training "protected" if I may, by the older players. Now this does not mean they can not try. I encourage new corps to join the Eve universe and start pvp'ing. However you will always have the cowards such as "corp B" trying to blow your corp to bits.
If they are actually a real corp (ie, not just a bunch of nubbins with a chat channel and a fat CEO wallet), then they likely have a corporate culture of sorts. I mean, if the folks in the corp like each other and want to make a go of it, the best thing they can do is join an alliance willing to take them in and show them the ropes. That'll give them access to seasoned FCs, different areas/styles of play, fleet warfare, comms discipline and possibly cheap ships/mods. They might have to deal with a few months of grunt work, defending gates, scouting, etc, but it would let them grow quite a lot.
Is that "PVP University" around still? That might be another option for them.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.05.17 17:27:00 -
[38]
I feel sorry for vets who resort to this sort of thing. We should give them a siggy that reads:
Im a three year old, 30 million skill point character with access to a faction battleship equiped with both t2 and faction modules with a value of several billion isk. I have brought terror to those who live in low and null sec, my trophy container is filled to the brim of the bodies of my enemies. And today, I put all of this vast power to work for the purpose of attacking a three month old, hardly 2 million skill point character in a ship that I will likely insta pop with ammo valued at hardly over 200k. After that, I will come to the forums to complain that my war targets are cowards for hiding in a station while I sit at the stations spawn point waiting for them to come out for several hours. I will later shout at them to adapt or die, again whill sitting in my multi billion ship. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Dhejay Centrix
Caldari Black Podding
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Posted - 2008.05.17 17:36:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Dhejay Centrix on 17/05/2008 17:35:46 ...This all sounds oddly familiar...
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fux lol
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Posted - 2008.05.17 17:37:00 -
[40]
besides, most of them probably were newer 08 players, and the corp in question probably brought along the "Faction bs" to ensure the safety of said newer members.. but how would i know.. right?
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Shiodome
Caldari Heretic Army Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2008.05.17 17:39:00 -
[41]
can i ask those that throw out all these war decs' ... why? you're certainly not going to get any isk out of it (t1 loots and cruiser salvage, yay), the fights aren't going to be the edge of the seat 'epic' fights you tell all your gaming mates about, it's costing you money, and due to your opponent being unable to compete it'll be boring (docked).
so what is actually in it for the aggressor? by all means go for those weaker, but i'd be looking for those slightly weaker that could be slapped around and ransomed for peace... attacking a bunch that can't fight or pay would be a waste of my time. _____________________________________ today i am this cool: [uncool]================[*]====[cool]
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fux lol
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Posted - 2008.05.17 17:40:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Shiodome can i ask those that throw out all these war decs' ... why? you're certainly not going to get any isk out of it (t1 loots and cruiser salvage, yay), the fights aren't going to be the edge of the seat 'epic' fights you tell all your gaming mates about, it's costing you money, and due to your opponent being unable to compete it'll be boring (docked).
so what is actually in it for the aggressor? by all means go for those weaker, but i'd be looking for those slightly weaker that could be slapped around and ransomed for peace... attacking a bunch that can't fight or pay would be a waste of my time.
Enjoyment? To teach newer members? newer members have to be initiated into pvp somehow.
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Viqtoria
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.17 17:41:00 -
[43]
I was playing this game of age of empires the other day, i had it all, loads of goldmines being worked, forests falling, an extensive set of walls to keep out malignant gusts of wind...then someone attacked me and my walls never worked and they used all these lame tactics to kill me FFS why did they do that?!?!?!?!?!!!!!
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Kaiiho
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Posted - 2008.05.17 17:43:00 -
[44]
Blame Chuck Norris.
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Shiodome
Caldari Heretic Army Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2008.05.17 17:46:00 -
[45]
i found defending tenal against smash/roadkill and friends a reasonable enough initiation into pvp... sitting in high sec staring at a station would have taught me pretty much nothing. _____________________________________ today i am this cool: [uncool]================[*]====[cool]
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fux lol
Caldari Black Podding
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Posted - 2008.05.17 17:48:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Viqtoria I was playing this game of age of empires the other day, i had it all, loads of goldmines being worked, forests falling, an extensive set of walls to keep out malignant gusts of wind...then someone attacked me and my walls never worked and they used all these lame tactics to kill me FFS why did they do that?!?!?!?!?!!!!!
you just won the thread. thankyou :)
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.17 17:53:00 -
[47]
I think there's stupidity in two places here:
The "veteran" corp is stupid in trying to kill the newbies with 10-man battleship fleets. They need to learn a little bit about baiting. If they'd switch to frigate squads the newbies might come out and play, meaning more fun and challenge for the veterans.
The OP is stupid for worrying about the feelings of both sides. This is war. It doesn't sound like Corp A is hung up about using the tactics they have at hand, e.g. docking and hiding. So why are you?
---------------- [insert signature here] |
fux lol
Caldari Black Podding
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Posted - 2008.05.17 18:01:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker I think there's stupidity in two places here:
The "veteran" corp is stupid in trying to kill the newbies with 10-man battleship fleets. They need to learn a little bit about baiting. If they'd switch to frigate squads the newbies might come out and play, meaning more fun and challenge for the veterans.
The OP is stupid for worrying about the feelings of both sides. This is war. It doesn't sound like Corp A is hung up about using the tactics they have at hand, e.g. docking and hiding. So why are you?
2-3 bs and a rack full of new players in frigates and cruisers is hardly an "omg 10 man battleship fleet"
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.17 18:03:00 -
[49]
Originally by: fux lol 2-3 bs and a rack full of new players in frigates and cruisers is hardly an "omg 10 man battleship fleet"
Well I'm not familiar with their fleet, but if it scares off their war targets, it's too much. Baiting is an art... you have to let the enemy think they can win.
---------------- [insert signature here] |
fux lol
Caldari Black Podding
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Posted - 2008.05.17 18:07:00 -
[50]
Edited by: fux lol on 17/05/2008 18:07:18 yes, but before we get the sun tzu quoters in, lets focus on the bit of your post that said "im not familiar" and end it at that? ok.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.05.17 18:16:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 17/05/2008 18:18:52 Well this prompted far more of a discussion than I expected!
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker The OP is stupid for worrying about the feelings of both sides. This is war. It doesn't sound like Corp A is hung up about using the tactics they have at hand, e.g. docking and hiding. So why are you?
Actually I'm not worrying about their feelings, I'm noting a morale problem in Corp A. Also, Corp A was hung up about having to dock and hide, they wanted to fight but felt it was pointless. As I said, it's a balance, I think introducing corps to PvP is important, but by the same token there is also overkill that leads people to just say, meh, EVE can wait a few weeks or months, I'll go do something else.
My original question wasn't attempting to say one side is bad or one side is good; more exploring the motivations, the perspectives of those involved. I wanted to be at least vaguely neutral in this, as I think both sides have points in their favour, but that almost never comes across.
Ironically enough, the Corp B has in fact ceased their wardec as of tomorrow and is already in a cease fire. Hopefully Corp A learnt something as they may get wardecced by a 'griefer' corp (not my choice of words). It's that pesky grapevine again
For those mentioning help or assistance, I will pass on those messages and nice to see people offering. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot." |
Viqtoria
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.17 18:18:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
The OP is stupid for worrying about the feelings of both sides. This is war. It doesn't sound like Corp A is hung up about using the tactics they have at hand, e.g. docking and hiding. So why are you?
Kilroy to thread asap.
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Samual Kalkin
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.17 18:29:00 -
[53]
What I generally see in this thread is "We were here first and all you noobs are meat for our tables". Very nice. You have no concept of enlightened self interest, but that just reflects the attitudes of corporations in the real world.
Yes I am new to Eve, after about 4 years of hearing how bad a game it was I decided to try it and see what was what. I find the game to be more than a bit contrived as with all MMOs but not as badly done several of the most popular. I find the general attitude of many of the older players to be even more laughable than the other MMOs I've played over the past decade. Despite what you think you really are no more special than the noobs, you have just been here longer and know that you have advantages that the noobs will need 1 to 3 year of real world time to overcome. So you feel safe in being derogatory towards them.
This is probably the most damaging thing obstruction to the growth of EVE, the flat out moronic stupidity of your attitudes toward new players. When they try to build up new corps that would only expand the breadth of the game, and ultimately give you more players to trade/interact with/fight against, many of you do your best to grind them down and deride them.
I guess what you are really trying to say is that it's your game and everyone else should stay the hell out?
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fux lol
Caldari Black Podding
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Posted - 2008.05.17 18:33:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Samual Kalkin What I generally see in this thread is "We were here first and all you noobs are meat for our tables". Very nice. You have no concept of enlightened self interest, but that just reflects the attitudes of corporations in the real world.
Yes I am new to Eve, after about 4 years of hearing how bad a game it was I decided to try it and see what was what. I find the game to be more than a bit contrived as with all MMOs but not as badly done several of the most popular. I find the general attitude of many of the older players to be even more laughable than the other MMOs I've played over the past decade. Despite what you think you really are no more special than the noobs, you have just been here longer and know that you have advantages that the noobs will need 1 to 3 year of real world time to overcome. So you feel safe in being derogatory towards them.
This is probably the most damaging thing obstruction to the growth of EVE, the flat out moronic stupidity of your attitudes toward new players. When they try to build up new corps that would only expand the breadth of the game, and ultimately give you more players to trade/interact with/fight against, many of you do your best to grind them down and deride them.
I guess what you are really trying to say is that it's your game and everyone else should stay the hell out?
your so clueless. infact throughout the entire war, i personally, and i think my entire corp, showed feelings of goodwill, and a mutaual respect, and even now, after the war, are continuing with this, helping the corp along with any advice they require.
so please, do some research before you post your truly unneeded opinion or gb2wow.
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2008.05.17 18:56:00 -
[55]
The other day, I blew up a retriever mining barge with my Cerberus. He made a nubbie mistake, I took advantage.
Thing is, his char was four months older than me. And, just as I was wondering whether I should feel sheepish about the overkill, he hit local with some ugly EULA-violating smack-talk.
Which is why I did not feel badly about blowing up his industrial ship six minutes or so later, when he brought it to the scene of the fracas.
When Ironfleet was young, we got persecuted for a time by older characters -- they had a legitimate beef but they were bigger "richards" about it than they needed to be. So I know how it feels to be overwhelmed and outclassed, and no, it's not a lot of fun.
My compromise is to feel free to shoot at nubs who give me the chance, but not to go looking for them. Blow them up once or twice, they've learned a lesson. Chase them around for a week, they've stopped having fun -- which means, I won't go there unless they made majestic efforts to annoy me somehow. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.17 19:59:00 -
[56]
Originally by: fux lol yes, but before we get the sun tzu quoters in, lets focus on the bit of your post that said "im not familiar" and end it at that?
Might as well throw out the whole forum by that logic. The point is, the aggressor corp seems to have faced whole stations full of potential targets and were too stupid to lure them out. We don't know any details beyond that. Do we need them?
---------------- [insert signature here] |
fux lol
Caldari Black Podding
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Posted - 2008.05.17 20:02:00 -
[57]
good lord joe, take a hint? READ the thread? guess who the aggressor corp was? pfft, and btw, looking at the killboard we did just fine baiting them out, considering all who logged on died that night :S
now, crawl back into your cave all knowing mighty one
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Jaabaa Prime
Minmatar Quam Singulari Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.05.17 21:05:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Jaabaa Prime on 17/05/2008 21:05:38 As a veteran of EVE, I see no use in attacking or opening a war declaration against a corporation which consists of new players. The loot has to crappy as hell for one thing
TBH, I even consider the one year old characters that you refer to as "vets" to be noobs, so its all a matter of perspective
I strikes me that some people like to think that they are the best thing since sliced bread and at the same time wouldn't even dare to enter low security systems, let alone the vacuum of 0.0 space ....
So please don't tar us *real* veterans of EVE with the same brush that you are using for the one year old empire bullies on the block.
Thank you. --
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FIX IT
Repo Industries R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.05.17 21:39:00 -
[59]
Edited by: FIX IT on 17/05/2008 21:42:39
Originally by: FellRaven The funny thing is you all answer by saying nothing.
We are saying the right things, you just don't want to hear them. You want to hear something else.
Originally by: FellRaven Sport teams are often placed in leagues by ability or age. Boxers by size etc etc.
And in eve the boxers place themselves. Only -they- are to blame if they chose to not find strong corporations to join.
Originally by: FellRaven Just explain to me why you feel that you are incapable of PvPing in low sec and 0.0 and why you need to War Decs against noob corps.
You ran out of things to say and degenerated to empty and poorly chosen insults so soon? Lord WarATron is in Band of Brothers all the caod drama aside they defiantly are not "incompetent noob decking" folks. REPO decks whoever we are payed to dec. Most of the time its alliances.
Originally by: libertarian cole The corp quickly dissolved and most of us ended up joining more experienced corporations.
Good.
Originally by: libertarian cole If you gank new players early and often they learn to hate PvP.
Yet some learn to love it and get good at it. I wonder what separates the two? Further more, if you know what you are doing and want to run you are not going to "get ganked" in empire very often.
Originally by: Deej Montana
I think most of these selfish, arrogant semi-sociopaths could care less if any new players ever signed up again....Just remember all you mean-spirited vets that CCP exists as a corporate entity to make money. They make money primarily by selling subscriptions to Eve.
And EVE HAS been making money. What is it now, 3rd largest for money mmo? And they have been making in because they are a harsh, violent game.
Originally by: Deej Montana
As some of you are apparently totally devoid of any humanity judging from the tone of your posts
I don't get the people who think this way. This is a game. Devoid of humanity??? Further more, here you have some more or less experienced players telling you exactly what the way to success is. And they are doing it for free. if anyone does not have humanity (which is silly) its your thieving CEO. Who is probably an alt and is stealing you money and time.
Originally by: Deej Montana and help the new folks instead of terrorizing them
There is an insane number of corporations and alliances that exist just for that. Eve uni is but one famous example. People out there will teach you what you need to know, they will help you and protect you and be your friends. YOU ARE BEING CHEATED. You ceo is stealing 10% of your income. Where does it go? Has he hired better player to teach you pvp? Has he bought fighting ships and shown them to you and told you you will have them when the war comes?
Originally by: Jacob Mei
I feel sorry for vets who resort to this sort of thing. We should give them a siggy that reads:
Im a three year old, 30 million...
who, if you read their response is helping and teaching noobs to fight. One group was social and smart, they got friends and teachers. The other didn't. I feel no sorrow for corp "A".
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Jadechimera
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Posted - 2008.05.17 21:41:00 -
[60]
I see a lot of people taking sides in the thread, whereas the OP was simply pointing out the way things work: veteran players often provide the incentive for other players to engage in behaviors (e.g. carebearing, staying in NPC corps) that they then complain about.
I pay for my subscription and spend time in the game because it's fun, and it's not fun when I get podded by a gate camper the moment I hit lowsec or get terrorized by a stronger corp, which is why I try not to put myself in a position for either to happen.
If this is something that veteran players don't like, then they need to take responsibility for those actions which encourage it. If they're going to continue harassing newbies, then they don't have much to complain about any lack of targets.
The point that I saw here wasn't that the vets' behavior is necessarily good or bad in itself, but it does affect the way that other people play, and this needs to be considered when trying to achieve whatever ends they consider to be good.
I'm not about to put myself out there for others to attack until I think I'm ready, and if this is a problem for others, then they need to recognize that I do not have full agency in affecting that situation. If anybody wants me to compete with them in pvp, then they either need to let me get to a point where that's possible, or they can reasonably expect me not to try. It's their choice, and in the meantime, I'll just keep doing what I'm anyway.
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