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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.02 08:27:00 -
[1]
One common abuse this game does suffers from is the acquisition of skill & research points ("resources") from accounts that do not pay to play. We would all be against some sort of daily isk stipend given to all players why are we okay with this situation.
Did I leave Eve at one point in the past? Yes. Did I set a battleship V to train while I was gone? Yes.
Of course in equal measure I was gone for 4 months and no I did not reactivate and start new training and deactivate. I have never made secondary accounts that farm the game from an inactive state. In fact, I only have two accounts (since 2003) and I only have two mains who do some research.
Mind you I don't think others should play the game my way but I do think that if others want to compete with me they should be required to actually play the game. And the gain of resources is competing with myself and everyone else.
Stop the injustice, stop the abuse. Account expires, suspend all resource gain.
Now, I think that allowing expired accounts to gain anything may be more "marketing" than it is game balance. Knowing that your account will have that super long skill trained and a crapload of datacores to sell if, or when, you decide to come back is likely a strong inducement for people to return to Eve.
(Wow, typed that last paragraph and I realized I've got nowhere to go from here.)
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
AltBier
Blue. Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.02 15:17:00 -
[2]
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Zeknichov
Dark Prophecy Inc. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.06.02 15:21:00 -
[3]
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Lee Scoresby
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Posted - 2008.06.02 15:36:00 -
[4]
I don't think this creates any balance issues.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.02 15:48:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lee Scoresby I guess I sort of agree about research points, but I don't think there's a problem with allowing one skill to finish when an account is inactive. Overall, I don't think it's worth bringing up.
Well I think having a range of issues, both large and small, gives the CSM, the first CSM, the chance to reap rewards that take little work, and would make it into game faster, while everyone waits for the bigger ideas to be implemented. And two things I'd add here, if I remember rightly this is something implemented on Eve-China. When Eve-Everyone Else heard of it the screams of worry and outrage were rather pronounced. Now, a good bit later it may be a good time to revisit the idea since, at least in the market forum, we've seen major economic vehicles fully built out of maximizing expired account resource gain. I think it would be hypocritical to put a stop to one form of free resource gain and not another. Secondly, I also realize that this idea is not going to be popular. After all, how many people you know sometimes say, "Bah, I'm going elsewhere for a month and I'll just let [insert_long_skill] train while I pay a CCP competitor instead."
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.06.02 16:07:00 -
[6]
I disagree with this.
If you want to "compete" with expired accounts in the Research Points field, you can simply do the research agent's daily mission, and voila you get 2x the number of points compared to the other guy. Plus, you can follow the markets and sell the datacores when it's profitable, or daily, rather than trying to offload a zillion every 6 months at a loss. There already are tools in place for you to actively compete.
I also think that the majority of your competition ISN'T expired accounts; rather it's active accounts, the PVP'er or the industrialist who otherwise spends his day playing other aspects of the game, but is also getting some extra income from the RP's.
As far as the skillpoints, we've always had that bonus and it's nice. People get bored of the game and need to take a break, if you take away their Battleships V should they return, they may not return.
So, I disagree. It's a nerf that's not needed; you can already compete in an active way, and nerfing this would result in a loss of players (however small).
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Eleana Tomelac
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.06.02 16:41:00 -
[7]
These things are rewards for not playing the game, I thought the whole point of CCP was to have us playing and using the game, paying accounts to have any benefit...
I can't understand why this is still in. If someone wants to talk about bad things and character farming, allowing to put a 1 month skill every two month for free, it's bad... -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.06.02 16:51:00 -
[8]
training warfare link specialist V on my trail account while it is inactive. Going to train up hopefully 3 hulk pilots in a few months using the trail + 1 gtc thing if possible. after the initial training time you want to know something? I will need them in game and working to pay for their gtcs so they won't be expiring again soon. leave it as it is. it encourages other people to make accounts and get ccp more money. my main is a hulk pilot. turns out mining is less isk an hour than ratting or missioning but scales much better.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.02 17:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Letouk Mernel If you want to "compete" with expired accounts in the Research Points field, you can simply do the research agent's daily mission, and voila you get 2x the number of points compared to the other guy.
Well this is something of a digression into another area I think long overdue for overhaul as well. The fact that by doing nothing someone can make half as much as I do, in fact they can be coasting on an expired account as well, makes actively missioning your R&D agent a fools errand. Mind you, I'm not impoverished by these matters. Not everything aired is because there is a direct gain for the person championing the cause. I'm well known, for many years, not for my whining but for my thinking & speaking. This is a small thing that could use some critical (& objective) review and debate.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.06.02 17:10:00 -
[10]
No.
Part of what makes Eve better than other MMOs is that you can take breaks without messing up your training.
Or, like me, go without internet involuntarily for three freakin months (thank you Embarq for having a single-digit IQ) without losing much in the way of training time.
People have real life issues that are more important than a video game. CCP recognizes this and that is part of why I like this game so much.
-- Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot |
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Frecator Dementa
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Posted - 2008.06.02 17:43:00 -
[11]
no. just no ----------------------- forum ate my post again |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.06.02 17:55:00 -
[12]
No thanks. Being able to have your skills still training even if your account has expired is a pretty powerful inducement to keep coming back to the game, IMO.
You may have found the game rather stale and boring, but you set up BS V before you left. Your account may have expired last week but suddenly you remember "Hey! BS V finished training a couple days ago! I can fly cap ships now!" and you go and re-sub your account. Happy ending for all concerned, I'd say.
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Lord Fitz
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.03 02:04:00 -
[13]
I would like to see these as seperate issues, RP gain wouldn't be that effective if it was just the odd player doing it, but given that the very isk made from RP is the cause for some players to have entire alt-accounts that can afford to be activated every 6 months etc by GTC to give them a boost of isk, I think that it has become an issue. Albeit a minor one.
SP gain while inactive I think is a non-existant issue given that you only get to finish the current skill, and that skills of one player don't really detract from another players experience.
Datacore gain reduces the value of datacores so reduces that which 'real' players have gained.
I think in some respects the recent nerf bat that has hit GTCs while hurting real players, also hits the passive datacore farmers, since they now have to wait twice as long before it's worth reactivating those accounts.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.04 23:16:00 -
[14]
Why not stop any SP/RP gain for chars that are not online then? Dear OP, you're a moron. Period. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.05 02:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tonto Auri Why not stop any SP/RP gain for chars that are not online then? Dear OP, you're a moron. Period.
Dear poster, thank you for your response. I can see it used up all of your capabilities. In return I'd like to add, better to be a well known sometimes moron then a totally unknown forever waste of space. Fare you well, may you troll another and I hope gtc prices aren't too high when you reactivate your datacore farming expired accounts.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Somatic Neuron
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Posted - 2008.06.05 11:09:00 -
[16]
I would agree with OP if it was only about acquiring assets (e.g. Research Points), and research was something the player participated in...as it is, it is an NPC driven function, and therefore has no bearing on whether the character is active or not...
So, not supporting this idea ---------- |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2008.06.05 12:00:00 -
[17]
Why is gaining SP with an inactive account such a problem?
The training to Battleship V is useless without the ISK to support the next purchases. If you have the ISK, one presumes you're contributing to the game in some way (paying for someone else's gametime, or having a fleet of mining alts, etc).
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Rutoo
Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.06.05 12:36:00 -
[18]
Some people go away for military or work means So they decide not to pay but set a long skill training,
Although it may be hurting CCP's bottom line, They are likely to lose more people if they stop RP/SP gains. Why? cause coming back to after being away and having a few more SP is good for player moral _________________________________________________________ My Second EvE Video Club Seals Not Sandwichs
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Leora Nomen
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Posted - 2008.06.05 12:58:00 -
[19]
Turning on EVE Online and opening your character sheet to click once over it is not playing the game. Also very few people have the godly patience to be waiting 4-6 weeks for a single level of some skill to finish. People play MMOs game with achievement being primary fun factor. If you force people to train all the long skills while they are subscribed and playing they will have to go long time without achieving anything skill-wise and this will subtract from the fun of the game.
guide to game time codes |
hamster humpster
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Posted - 2008.06.05 13:02:00 -
[20]
i disagree
1) expired account RP = cheap datacore = cheap T2 stuff = more players can afford to use good equipments
2) expire SP benefits a lot of ppl, and does not affect others
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.06.05 13:34:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Shar Tegral Now, I think that allowing expired accounts to gain anything may be more "marketing" than it is game balance. Knowing that your account will have that super long skill trained and a crapload of datacores to sell if, or when, you decide to come back is likely a strong inducement for people to return to Eve.
(Wow, typed that last paragraph and I realized I've got nowhere to go from here.)
Congratulations on torpedoing your own argument in your final paragraph
Well, I *suppose* a mid-way solution would be acceptable : instead of leaving it like it is, instead of making it how you suggested, you could have both SP/RP gains halved while not active. This leaves in the incentive to return, but puts the inactive "farmers" at a distinct disadvantage.
Still don't like the idea all that much... though I agree it's mildly unfair.
1|2|3|4|5 |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.05 14:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Akita T Congratulations on torpedoing your own argument in your final paragraph
Well you know me, I'm not afraid to face the fact that I might be wrong. Even if I'm the one who shoots my own idea down. Of course equally, you know I don't care if an idea is unpopular either (and it was obvious this one would be). Still, thought it worth bringing up even if it goes down in flames. What I'm most pleased about is the general good nature responses. People thought about the matter, respond yea or nay with good reasons either direction, and there was little trolling or flaming around. /me shrugs. That's enough of a win for me. Especially for me.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.06.05 15:35:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Letouk Mernel If you want to "compete" with expired accounts in the Research Points field, you can simply do the research agent's daily mission, and voila you get 2x the number of points compared to the other guy.
Well this is something of a digression into another area I think long overdue for overhaul as well.
When CCP introduced the research agents, we had to talk to each agent every day or we'd get NO POINTS until we did so. Very annoying that was. After they nerfed Research Points to give crap (datacores) instead of T2 BPO's, I guess they felt that removing that annoyance and letting us get some RP's without having to micromanage that crap was justified, considering the rewards.
I agree. All things considered, daily income from 4 high-standing agents is like, a couple hours mining Veldspar.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.06 02:34:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Letouk Mernel I agree. All things considered, daily income from 4 high-standing agents is like, a couple hours mining Veldspar.
This statement here demonstrates the issue I see: " Daily income from research agents can equal a couple of hours of mining veldspar." We all agree that anyone doing this kind of thing afk, using an industrial ship in a 1.0, is rather lame. Here we have the same thing though and the person who benefits doesn't even have to be paying to play Eve. They just afk gain several hours of mining veldspar everyday for as many months as the like and then just sign up for 60 days (now) and collect up all the profits. Firstly, we'd all be fools if we were not doing the same thing ourselves right now. Secondly, that still doesn't make it right no matter how much some of us like it. Gain without effort or investment is ... lame. It cheapens the Eve experience.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.06.06 04:48:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
One common abuse this game does suffers from is the acquisition of skill & research points ("resources") from accounts that do not pay to play. We would all be against some sort of daily isk stipend given to all players why are we okay with this situation.
Did I leave Eve at one point in the past? Yes. Did I set a battleship V to train while I was gone? Yes.
Of course in equal measure I was gone for 4 months and no I did not reactivate and start new training and deactivate. I have never made secondary accounts that farm the game from an inactive state. In fact, I only have two accounts (since 2003) and I only have two mains who do some research.
Mind you I don't think others should play the game my way but I do think that if others want to compete with me they should be required to actually play the game. And the gain of resources is competing with myself and everyone else.
Stop the injustice, stop the abuse. Account expires, suspend all resource gain.
Now, I think that allowing expired accounts to gain anything may be more "marketing" than it is game balance. Knowing that your account will have that super long skill trained and a crapload of datacores to sell if, or when, you decide to come back is likely a strong inducement for people to return to Eve.
(Wow, typed that last paragraph and I realized I've got nowhere to go from here.)
post with your main ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:37:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Erotic Irony post with your main
Instead of treating you like a troll how about you tell me what you think about the issue. (You could save yourself some trouble over my mainness if you used something simple like eve-search, or google it ( this, this, and this) for some background, or visit eBank, or listen to the latest WDA: Industry Podcast.)
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.06 11:30:00 -
[27]
-- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.08 23:08:00 -
[28]
SP gain not so sure about, don't think it is that detrimental to the game, even if it makes sense (or rather doesn't make sense you still train skills after account expires)
But should definitely stop RP accumulating on dead accounts. Research Points are free isk imo and break the game anyway
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.08 23:17:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Shar Tegral Fare you well, may you troll another and I hope gtc prices aren't too high when you reactivate your datacore farming expired accounts.
I don't have datacore farming expired accounts. So you have stated something that are obvious lie.
If you want natural example of the way you want EVE to go with your suggestion, go play Ragnarek Online, Lineage 2, or even Diablo 2 (easily obtainable nowadays and not required internet connection).
I may only guess, how fast you'll run away from these "natural examples". -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Krowst
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Posted - 2008.06.09 00:25:00 -
[30]
I would rather see a skills que in place, then to continue getting s.p. during expired times. The fact is that most people saying, this is not a good idea are bringing up valid points. But the problem is the chance for abuse (not saying that all those opposed to it, are abusing it, but I sure some of them are).
The problem comes in when people create a second account and train up an alt to sell and make BILLIONS of isk by exploiting a privilage given to us by CCP to help with those valid reasons mentioned.
So a possible solution is that you can still train but at 1/4 the speed or with something like for every 4 months countinuous subscrption to an account you can get 1 months worth of training on that inactive account but both these ideas would be more dificult than just getting rid of it all together
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.09 02:28:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Shar Tegral Fare you well, may you troll another and I hope gtc prices aren't too high when you reactivate your datacore farming expired accounts.
Originally by: Tonto Auri I don't have datacore farming expired accounts. So you have stated something that are obvious lie.
You should go back to your school teachers and complain. You obvious do not understand the difference between speculation and deceit. And I'll admit that what I suggested was an unfounded speculation but one has to wonder if you do not benefit from the system as is why are you for strongly for it? The clearest bit of logic (to what gain?) proves that you may not be quite honest in your intentions. To be fair, you might not have expired accounts (right now) but that you might just be trolling. Perhaps you invested in Matalino's Datacore Farming Warehouse IPO. The one thing that is missing is a clear idea of why you think it is wrong. So, instead of trying snide personal attacks about what you think I want Eve to be why don't you tell me what is wrong with taking a critical look at passive resource gain? I realize that sp gain, passively, is an inherent facet of Eve. A pure fundamental that differentiates it from the rest of the MMO market. However CCP already has no SP gain on expired accounts active on Eve China. So there is data available about the effects this can have, pro and con, for CCP and the Playerbase. As to rp gain; I think passive gain and expired account passive gain should be reviewed with a critical eye. It is, plainly, free isk. One can, and has, argue that it is a return on investment of skill training and standing gains. Passive gain should be a clearly unplatable choice in comparison to Active gain of research points. The doubling of return is clearly not it since it is far easier, and less effort, to skill up & standings grind alts on a second account. Then you simply let the account expire and start again with another account. Keep up the rotation and you have alt economy of scale. This is not working smarter or working harder. It's just taking undue advantage of the game by people that don't pay to play. Any advantage like that is a clear disadvantage to those who do pay to play. I await your response and hope that you can refrain from the ad hominem or the straw man argument styles.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Big Al
The Aftermath
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Posted - 2008.06.09 03:31:00 -
[32]
And how is that China server doing? Oh? 3000 at peak you say. Let's use it as an example of why this is a good idea.
I think CCP would try this again (they have already tested the waters with the 'accidental' note in the patches that was 'intended for the china server' (even though they have said the entities are completely separate). Last time drew massive amounts of ire from the playerbase, but greed is good.
Personally I don't care, my accounts are active most of the time anyway. However, I cannot support this issue as I do like letting them lapse occasionally.
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MirrorGod
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2008.06.09 04:05:00 -
[33]
Half supported.
Yes on the RP, because that's messing with teh T2 market.
No on the SP, because it's just silly to deny such an awesome game feature
Recruitment: [ANTI]
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Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 05:57:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Draygo Korvan on 09/06/2008 05:57:03 I really think this thread needs to be split into 2 seperate issues:
SP gain while account inactive: No support for stopping skill training while an account is inactive. Doing so means that my account will stop training even if I renew 1 minute later. And I think its important for people to be able to do other things without getting significantly behind on their training.
and RP gain while account inactive: Definatly support, if you can gain RP while your account is lapsed you can leave it lapsed until you want to cash out. You are essentially getting an award for doing absolutely nothing. Where Skill training will eventually expire, RP gain does not. --
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aUTOKILL
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.06.09 05:59:00 -
[35]
ummm if i go afk for like a week and my gtc runs out i dont want to lose sp. ok. thx. ~~~~~~ doin it for the stats
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Tiger Delivery
THE INTERNET.
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Posted - 2008.06.09 08:05:00 -
[36]
If you were smart, you would of spearated the two issues.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.09 09:31:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Tiger Delivery If you were smart, you would of spearated the two issues.
I stated early into the thread that while it maybe different points being added on the issue is essentially the same. Accumulation of passive resources upon expired accounts. While my history demonstrates my level of "smart" it also shows that I do things honestly. To split the issue, by me, would be dishonest in my book. /me shrugs Originally by: aUTOKILL ummm if i go afk for like a week and my gtc runs out i dont want to lose sp. ok. thx.
So you're reason for this to continue is it is a safety measure to protect you from your own "fail"? Originally by: MirrorGod No on the SP, because it's just silly to deny such an awesome game feature
I agree, it is an awesome game feature. But like I said, bringing one kind of expired resource gain into review should also bring the other as well. Concluding my involvement here: Half support is fine too. CSM members are not idiots and will see the value of this idea upon it's own merits. They will also see what is "popular" of this issue and what is not. So the point of splitting it up is really moot. Just speak your pro's and con's and support or not support and everything will be good in the end. (Just please stop with the personal attacks as it only makes the attacker look rather... whats the english word for trailer park? Plebbie? Chav?)
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
BiggestT
Fun Inc Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:23:00 -
[38]
NOO WAY! THUMBS DOWN! too many times have i been awaiting withdraw of funds from paypal and my accounts expired. Just because i dont pay fro sub-scription with isk as i dont play enough doesnt mean i should be at a dis-advantage ..|.. <-OP
Boost Field commands! they need love :( |
McRuder
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:43:00 -
[39]
No.
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Shaitis
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.09 13:51:00 -
[40]
I disagree
"What is funnier ? 20 Matari slaves pinned to one tree or 1 Matari slave pinned to 20 trees ? |
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Vanessa Vale
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Posted - 2008.06.09 16:30:00 -
[41]
No. The less incentives players have to come back, the less they will.
Minmatar Boost Brigade |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216 San Matari.
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Posted - 2008.06.09 16:35:00 -
[42]
Supported.
San Matari Official forums |
Aloriana Jacques
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.06.29 01:37:00 -
[43]
Originally by: MirrorGod Half supported.
Yes on the RP, because that's messing with teh T2 market.
No on the SP, because it's just silly to deny such an awesome game feature.
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Artemis Rose
Eleckrostatik
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Posted - 2008.06.29 09:43:00 -
[44]
Just like you said at the end of you original post Shar, thinking about the datacore pile you have waiting, and the seemingly impossibly long 60 day skill finished up is a damn good reason to start playing Eve again if you were previously inactive. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.06.29 10:26:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Lee Scoresby
I guess I sort of agree about research points, but I don't think there's a problem with allowing one skill to finish when an account is inactive. Overall, I don't think it's worth bringing up.
This I will support, but getting a long skill trained while the account was inactive is a great way to lure back players. The change of GTC to 60 days and a little higher cost was probably partially motivated by the people training 1 month in 1 month out but much more buy the RP farming operations.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.06.29 10:30:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Letouk Mernel If you want to "compete" with expired accounts in the Research Points field, you can simply do the research agent's daily mission, and voila you get 2x the number of points compared to the other guy.
Well this is something of a digression into another area I think long overdue for overhaul as well. The fact that by doing nothing someone can make half as much as I do, in fact they can be coasting on an expired account as well, makes actively missioning your R&D agent a fools errand. Mind you, I'm not impoverished by these matters. Not everything aired is because there is a direct gain for the person championing the cause. I'm well known, for many years, not for my whining but for my thinking & speaking. This is a small thing that could use some critical (& objective) review and debate.
You "gain" a storyline every 16 R&D missions too. For me it was way more useful than the RP point gains. |
Little Fistter
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Posted - 2008.06.29 15:16:00 -
[47]
I DISAGREE!
For a player to continue to gain SP and RP is a great hook. It distinguished Eve from all the other games.
My account has never stopped and I have never benefitted from this, but if I had to go away for a year (say national service or lack of funds after a baby born, etc) these things make Eve a game I am more likely to return to.
Look. It costs nothing. It is not really an exploit. In the long run it makes CCP more money and therefore keeps this game going.
Let the expired accounts continue to earn something so they come back.
NO. Suggestion: Please color jump gates the same color as the system security rating of the destination system in the overview.
LITTLE FISTTER
Broken Sigs?
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Bad Harlequin
Minmatar The Harlequinade
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Posted - 2008.06.29 15:30:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 29/06/2008 15:36:06
Originally by: Rooker No.
Part of what makes Eve better than other MMOs is that you can take breaks without messing up your training.
Or, like me, go without internet involuntarily for three freakin months (thank you Embarq for having a single-digit IQ) without losing much in the way of training time.
People have real life issues that are more important than a video game. CCP recognizes this and that is part of why I like this game so much.
a thousand times this. was going to reply, fortunately read ahead before opening my big mouth for once . Rooker says it perfectly.
Originally by: Shar Tegral if you do not benefit from the system as is why are you for strongly for it?
please tell me you're kidding? think about this statement really hard for a while. |
Inanna Zuni
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Posted - 2008.06.29 16:40:00 -
[49]
My personal view has always been that if you aren't an active player (in this case defined as a *paying* player) then you shouldn't expect to gain the benefits of being a paying player - ie SP and RP.
I - unofficially - raised this at the recent CCP-CSM meeting in passing on another subject and it was indicated to me from the CCP side that they saw this as beneficial to enticing people back into EVE if they feel they need to take a break from regular play.
I'm still uncertain about it, though setting a long skill to level 5 and disappearing off for that period without paying is (to me, anyway) clearly gaming the system. Commercially though it might well be better for CCP in the longer run to permit this.
IZ
My principles |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.06.29 18:40:00 -
[50]
Sorry, nope, not in a million years. I have this thing called REAL LIFE, and the fact that EVE does not have to become a second job for me is one of the primary reasons I play.
The SP gain while account is inactive is relatively minor benefit - since the skill training STOPS once the skill is finished. The RP gain while account is inactive is also a relatively minor thing, since those accounts are reactivated to collect the RP and the benefit of ISK/Cash is small.
Sorry not supported EVER. |
|
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.06.29 19:11:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Jinx Barker Again, EVE is not a second job for most of us - and those two things you mention are actually of an extreme benefit for majority of the players.
Your defense of your real life simply comes across quite Shakespearean; "You doth protest too much." Somehow you are connecting your real life demands in connection with "inactive players" and blurring the lines to "active customers". It's a false argument that you've given in entirety and one can only assume that you either have misread the idea or your evepeen is heavily invested in using inactive accounts so that you don't have to play eve like the rest of us who do not. You know, those of us who play the game fairly without exploiting the system?? <sobs> "Waaaaaah, I wanna pvp all the time. Damn people who try to change my eve from 'counterstrike' online!!!!" </sobs> Cry us a bloody river and go back to posting how you drink carebear tears. Must make your whine go down better. NVM, discussing this with someone so obviously lame is not worth any of my time. In game or 'real life'.
|
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.06.29 19:32:00 -
[52]
This has been discussed long enough so I'm just going to close with this: Being an american I've seen what becomes when you set up a welfare state.
Inactive account skillpoint gain is not that and I probably should have brought it up in a different thread entirely.
Inactive account research point gain is the foundation of a welfare state. It is an automatic stipend that destroys an causality between reward and risk/effort.
However if the so called majority is in favor who am I to fight that... I'm just going to do all I can to poison the well entirely. I'll just go on and detail the exact steps to game the system so that there can be hundreds of accounts per each player gaining research points. Where will your real life be then? When everyone is doing it?
Short-sighted self-entitled fools. No wonder you need to exploit. Ta-ta now, gotta go use my non-exploiting success to go open a dozen accounts. |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.06.29 19:41:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Shar Tegral ...flame & trolling in one's own thread...
Ok, lets see:
The quote is: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." from Hamlet. However, you, as majority of unwashed masses, misinterpret what "protest" means. You view it as "denial" or "disagreement" when it really means, at least in Shakespeare, to "argue for," to "vow" and to "solemnly declare."
In other words, "protest" is not a juxtaposing view of the subject under discussion, but quite the opposite, the desire to "argue for the subject," so elaborate, so "artful," so full guile, that it undermines the credibility of the one who argues.
Which, to further infer, using the quote, means that you are the one who "doth protest too much, methinks" for your chosen subject, to the point of loosing all credibility in the process.
You are using every tool in the forum troll's arsenal to quash down any opposing view, and argue so vehemently for your proposal, with flame and trolling, to the point that, indeed, you loose all credibility in the matter. It is hard to see what you are arguing for, other than maximizing your personal gain, you attribute "intent" to me for example, of being a "CS crybaby," while I I am not a fan of the game, which you would not know, of course.
Or, you take the position of mysterious "Us," thus assuming that while you have 5 supports in this thread and many more denials of your idea, trying to add weight to an argument which is lost.
Oh, and just to clarify things, I have two accounts: one is for JB as pure combat, and the other one is a 100% carebear T2 manufacturer and inventor. As such, again, you assumed that I was relying on "inactive/active" game to make ISK in game, again falsley.
If you took the time not to run headlong into a brick wall, and flame and troll in your own thread, you would have realized that I am arguing against your idea because it is detrimental to the majority of the players who have come to rely on that extra time when the account goes inactive to train that particular skill, or the meagre RP collected while they are inactive, as opposed to being tied to EVE 23/7.
That is why the developers of EVE, as stated by the CSM representative, are reluctant to change the system, the benefit of retaining the players is far outweighing the small and perceived inconvenience of those who would "protest too much" for their idea while representing it as the "common goal."
Best of luck to you in your next fallacy. |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.06.29 19:51:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
This has been discussed long enough so I'm just going to close with this: Being an american I've seen what becomes when you set up a welfare state.
Inactive account skillpoint gain is not that and I probably should have brought it up in a different thread entirely.
Inactive account research point gain is the foundation of a welfare state. It is an automatic stipend that destroys an causality between reward and risk/effort.
However if the so called majority is in favor who am I to fight that... I'm just going to do all I can to poison the well entirely. I'll just go on and detail the exact steps to game the system so that there can be hundreds of accounts per each player gaining research points. Where will your real life be then? When everyone is doing it?
Short-sighted self-entitled fools. No wonder you need to exploit. Ta-ta now, gotta go use my non-exploiting success to go open a dozen accounts.
I have highlighted some trolling and flaming.
1) I am an American, and I disagree with you 100%. Please do not use national distinctions to argue for things in a "make belief" universe of EVE. It really means that you are taking the game too seriously and need a break.
2) If you refrained from trolling your own threads and creating a flame-bait posts, you probably would have had greater success in the matter.
3) Although I might agree with you in "principle" that gaining RP while inactive is not the best idea, and as a T2 manufacturer would probably support it in the long run, the benefit of retaining a greater EVE population, in my opinion, far outweighs the detriment of the so called "stipend."
|
Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.06.29 20:16:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni I'm still uncertain about it, though setting a long skill to level 5 and disappearing off for that period without paying is (to me, anyway) clearly gaming the system.
It is no more "gaming the system" than having that same level 5 skill training when you go to sleep. They designed it this way intentionally and for a reason.
When I was without internet for 3 months (THX EMBARQ MORONS), I almost didn't come back. But then I realized a long and very nice lvl5 skill had finished, so I patched the client, logged back in and prompty bought a time code (that somebody else bought from CCP).
-- Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.06.29 22:13:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Jinx Barker Again, EVE is not a second job for most of us - and those two things you mention are actually of an extreme benefit for majority of the players.
Your defense of your real life simply comes across quite Shakespearean; "You doth protest too much." Somehow you are connecting your real life demands in connection with "inactive players" and blurring the lines to "active customers". It's a false argument that you've given in entirety and one can only assume that you either have misread the idea or your evepeen is heavily invested in using inactive accounts so that you don't have to play eve like the rest of us who do not. You know, those of us who play the game fairly without exploiting the system?? <sobs> "Waaaaaah, I wanna pvp all the time. Damn people who try to change my eve from 'counterstrike' online!!!!" </sobs> Cry us a bloody river and go back to posting how you drink carebear tears. Must make your whine go down better. NVM, discussing this with someone so obviously lame is not worth any of my time. In game or 'real life'.
For someone that some post ago asked not to use ad hominem attacks you have a very fondness for them.
Try to follow your advice and speak only about the objections, not about your opinion of the perso who object and his reasons.
|
Boknamar
Gallente The Knights Trevor
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 04:28:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Boknamar on 30/06/2008 04:29:32
Originally by: Inanna Zuni My personal view has always been that if you aren't an active player (in this case defined as a *paying* player) then you shouldn't expect to gain the benefits of being a paying player - ie SP and RP.
I - unofficially - raised this at the recent CCP-CSM meeting in passing on another subject and it was indicated to me from the CCP side that they saw this as beneficial to enticing people back into EVE if they feel they need to take a break from regular play.
I'm still uncertain about it, though setting a long skill to level 5 and disappearing off for that period without paying is (to me, anyway) clearly gaming the system. Commercially though it might well be better for CCP in the longer run to permit this.
IZ
I don't understand your "gaming the system" logic. There are very few individual skill trainings that take much more than a month. The vast majority of them take much less. So in order to get the same training as an active player, the inactive player must resubcribe periodically to switch out skills, paying practically as much as the active player. Only the inactive player gets much less from the game overall. They get no ISK, few or no material assets, and no standing increases. I don't really see anything wrong with that situation. |
Vuxacha
VTECHS
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 07:21:00 -
[58]
I'm against this. The thing which has kept me (and my multiple accounts) as a subscriber has been the ability to trail behind everyone else during the rough months.
Sure you can train up battleship V etc, but so what? I can understand the RP thing, but SP affects only me. Even those who (full disclosure: I've tried to do this) try and cheat the system via alt training have to go through a lot of pain to do it. Getting all the timing right and stuff, just not worth it.
Players trying to get ahead using this method are paying for more resources while using less. It reminds me of the ISP model. Under that model, you'd be the p2p user (I assume that because you're a trader, you constantly refresh market, make changes to the DB, query the DB etc to stay ahead?) while those guys are the "sure I'll pay for broadband then use it only for email and IM". Eve gets to keep some players around which it otherwise wouldnt and CCP has more income for infrastructure.
Using this method I've trained covert ops V, battleships V, and maybe some learning skills to V. Doesn't mean I can just come back and buy a battleship or covert op. Doesn't mean I have any experience or skill with the ship. If your proposal came to pass, guys like me would be sitting at 4mil if we even hung around. Depressed that yesterday's dread is today's cruiser. As long as resources do not accumulate, the player has very few advantages. So he saved a few IRL dollars..who cares? Isn't that what Power^2 is anyway?
I suggest the following alteration:
Disable RP accumulation Disable ALL market orders
|
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 07:57:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Vuxacha Disable ALL market orders
I was going on and reading, and nodding, and agreeing with the post made by Vuxacha, and then the quoted text came into view... at the moment I am having an interesting sensation in my left arm, I think its a heart attack.....
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General StarScream
Gallente Empyrean Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 08:01:00 -
[60]
you know for each of those characters you want to farm data cores with you need 100m in skill and a lvl5 standing to the Corp you want the cores from, offen 2 corps. if you want good data cores on all agents.
and this is alot of work, to setup, to make good money from it. so if someone whants to do this, then good on em, anyone can do it, so since you cant afford or have the time or what ever to do it, dont mean it should be nerfed., Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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Vuxacha
VTECHS
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 08:40:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: Vuxacha Disable ALL market orders
I was going on and reading, and nodding, and agreeing with the post made by Vuxacha, and then the quoted text came into view... at the moment I am having an interesting sensation in my left arm, I think its a heart attack.....
lol, don't panic. I was just goading Shar cos he is a trader and I suspect that he must have at least 1 account he pays for with isk (something considered highly unfair in most MMOs). That was gonna be my opening, but after seeing how well this forum operates I guess its not nice to troll. Even if some ....person guy.... is suggesting a change that would throw me out of the game, as well as the hundreds of interesting adults I've met here. I've never played a game with so many vets and 20+yos. I suspect that the light pressure for skill 'levelling' and the single node (so you never come back to find everyone has switched servers/sides) environment are the reason. I also do not like the fact that it appears the CSM will be used for the purpose of people grabbing their pitch forks and going on their own vendettas, or simply trying to buff their own selves up.
=( I left some market orders up before I left last. Ouch. Remember how much trit used to cost? Yeh.... |
Threv Echandari
Caldari K Directorate
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 17:03:00 -
[62]
NO
This is part of Eve's uniqueness and something that makes the game attractive to players who may wish to quit paying yet come back later. Bad idea. |
Windjammer
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 19:14:00 -
[63]
Why should CCP support the interests of people who aren't paying at the expense of those who are?
Eliminating absentee skill training would set the stage for skill training ques. Something most active players would like to see. If CCP were to institute a skill que under current conditions, absentee players would be able to set up long que's and train without paying for months. This is and would playing for free.
Accumulating Research Points to purchase Datacores while absent from EVE and not paying is just nuts. It's like setting a mining script to run while you take off for months. CCP is against scripted (afk) mining or farming so why should they continue to allow the accumulation of resources by someone who isn't even paying to be active. When these resources hit the market place they impact the economy and affect active player's who are paying.
Want to play? Then pay.
Regards, Windjammer |
Irene Ley
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 20:41:00 -
[64]
Hi all,
Here is the excuse for CCP to take down RP and SP on inactive accounts. I am sure that they will take note from this nice topic that will let they earn more money but will not even try to read anything about the topic related to 30, 60 and 90 days gtc. Since it would hurt their income.
So keep with those things to make eve a more efficient machine to earn money, CCP will love u all.
One thing, this kind of training is not an abuse, it's just the way it was designed. It's like the rules of conduct or the procedure to setup a pos in space. Everyone knows how to do it and accept it, the bad thing comes once someone decides to change it hurting people that likes this rule. I like this game and I like the offline training. It's is one of the reasons because of I play it. Why dont u use your time playing and not giving CCP excuses to earn more money?.
Have fun in EVE-CRASH-REGISTER-ONLINE.
|
Harkonin
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 20:53:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni My personal view has always been that if you aren't an active player (in this case defined as a *paying* player) then you shouldn't expect to gain the benefits of being a paying player - ie SP and RP.
I - unofficially - raised this at the recent CCP-CSM meeting in passing on another subject and it was indicated to me from the CCP side that they saw this as beneficial to enticing people back into EVE if they feel they need to take a break from regular play.
I'm still uncertain about it, though setting a long skill to level 5 and disappearing off for that period without paying is (to me, anyway) clearly gaming the system. Commercially though it might well be better for CCP in the longer run to permit this.
IZ
Hello,
A few things.
Did u ever raised a topic related to this matter to take note of the common thoughts of the people before using your privileged position?
Do u use your privileged position often in your rl to achieve personal enhancements or to impose your own ideas?
Thankx.
|
Vuxacha
VTECHS
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 20:57:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Windjammer Why should CCP support the interests of people who aren't paying at the expense of those who are?
Eliminating absentee skill training would set the stage for skill training ques. Something most active players would like to see. If CCP were to institute a skill que under current conditions, absentee players would be able to set up long que's and train without paying for months. This is and would playing for free.
Accumulating Research Points to purchase Datacores while absent from EVE and not paying is just nuts. It's like setting a mining script to run while you take off for months. CCP is against scripted (afk) mining or farming so why should they continue to allow the accumulation of resources by someone who isn't even paying to be active. When these resources hit the market place they impact the economy and affect active player's who are paying.
Want to play? Then pay.
Regards, Windjammer
Why is it mutually exclusive? You could easily control the rules of the queue to prevent abuse. To set up long trains to take advantage of the current situation, you have to spend a bunch of time preparing some big Vs (with learning and implants, there arent many). It a huge pain in the neck. If you're unable to afford your account every month you can do it, but it doesn't do more than save a few dollars. Everyone else will continue to train and earn isk.
I mentioned in my last post that people like that support the habits of the power gamers, because they pay to setup their long trains and probably use almost no server resources to do so. The benefits do not end there. These people are spending isk (buying skillbooks etc) whilst earning almost nothing. That means they're also acting as isk sinks. This would be a change that would cause an exodus from Eve. How does that benefit us? There'd be no lag reduction because they're already not using resources. My SP wouldn't suddenly be worth more by even a measurable fraction, because most trains are not big ass V trains. They're medium ass V.
I still agree with the removal of RP accumulation, however, I've already mentioned in this thread that market orders persist. In addition to that, share dividends continue to go out. Passive progression would be so hard to stamp out. Meanwhile games like WoW give rested status to characters, a feature that earlier MMOs didn't possess. Why? Because penalising people for not playing is not the same as encouraging them to play.
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Sir Ibex
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 22:10:00 -
[67]
No, bad idea. Not supported.
This is within the game rules and there's nothing illegal about it. What people do with their accounts in none of your business. No one is preventing you from doing the same thing. It's not abuse. It's taking advantage of your options.
The people who use the time during account inactivity to research stuff will off course use that to get isk or RP, but that's good. These people will flood the game with cheaper, abundant BPOs, BPCs, items and ships. This will in turn drive prices down on stuff, and maybe even somehow drive the prices down on characters, and time cards.
Given the recent time card price hikes, some people need every available resource at hand to be able to make enough isk every two months. This is just one more way to do so. Me and many other people have been asking CCP for a long time now, to give us an option of an extended skill queue so that we can continue training skills when we are away. We ask this, because we are unable to renew our subscription as often as we used to, so at least we should have the option to keep training our skills/researching stuff. Off course there are people who have other reasons to ask for this new option, but either way this is an important issue.
Then you come along and ask that even our existing option to finish our skill in training after account expires be removed... You gotta be joking...
But don't worry. CCP wont listen to you. They need people like me to keep playing the game even if I don't renew my subscription as often as I used to. It's still money to them, even if it's less money. Therefore, I'm sure they will at least keep the existing options, if not give us the extended queue.
Look man.. I respect you. You helped me when I was a total newb, and you were nice to me. I will always remember that. I also respect your opinion, and in some small way you could be right from where you stand. But please leave this issue alone. Consider how this would impact other people who play this game "on the budget". Who are you to tell them, they can no longer do so? |
ITTigerClawIK
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 19:01:00 -
[68]
i am 50/50 with this idea,
50% For
i am for this idea in the stopping Research point gain as yes, it is farming ISK in a way as it is gaining ISK from no work in game just like the Macro Miners we all know and hate so this would be a good thing to stop as the account is deactivated, however,
50% Against
i am against not allowing the player to finish a skill training while ofline, as it is a single skill that is training and as soon as tht is over, it does stop and no more training is done, it is not gaining any ISK in game and only affecting one particuler area of the game of witch that skill is relevent for unlike RP witch is giving an overall gain in the money dept.
Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected]) |
Aiko Intaki
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 19:19:00 -
[69]
I'm generally against this idea.
The main reason I oppose it is because at several points I had to take extended leaves from EvE to deal with RL situations - moving overseas for instance. I did happen to train Caldari Battleship V in that time, and it frankly made me quite tickled to come back and find a skill trained that I likely would not have bothered to train had I kept playing throughout that period. It's a positive that added to my enjoyment of the game and in no way was detrimental to another's enjoyment of the game.
In other MMO's, which largely require XP grinds of various sorts, taking several months off generally pushes you significantly behind your friends, guildies, etc. It is precisely because this is not the case in EvE that I have ended up paying for more months on my subscription that I have in any other MMO (aside, perhaps, from EQ1).
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ceyriot
Entropians on Vacation
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 22:10:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Zeknichov
Faction Store - Killboard |
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Saraah Leeown
|
Posted - 2008.08.03 07:03:00 -
[71]
Don't care about skill training while inactive, but I shudder to think how many accounts are only activated once every couple of months, just to collect a mountain of datacores.
So don't care about SP, but inactive accounts collecting RP is ridiculous
|
Venkul Mul
|
Posted - 2008.08.03 07:16:00 -
[72]
The only problem with removing RP increase on inactive accounts is that it should be done in a fashion that will not block regular RP increase in active accounts.
Requiring to do the daily mission will change the research agents usage a lot, deactivating RP generation when the account subscription is not payed don't seem so linear to implement as it will require transmission of data between the account management and the game world and that can be a security weakness I think.
If that is simple to correct, I am in favor of removing the RP production but not the skill training from inactive accounts.
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faltzswher
|
Posted - 2008.08.03 07:43:00 -
[73]
The RP collection I agree is somthign that needs to be fixed a simple fix is a time limit in which you ahev to talk to your agent say once a month.
However Skill finshing when the accounts inactive is fine one of the best bit about the game is its flexabilty around my real life.
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Sylthi
Coreward Pan-Galactic
|
Posted - 2008.08.03 08:21:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Sylthi on 03/08/2008 08:22:37 I agree with what a lot of people have already said: Expired account RP gain is just stupid. This needs to go. This hurts the economy and I am CERTAIN the real money for isk leeches are taking full advantage of it somehow.
Expired account SP could be argued either way. Mostly I side with you SHOULDN'T be able to put SP on an expired account.
Still, the RP situation DEFFINATELY needs looking into, so I'll give the thread my support based on that idea. *
* |
Tzujeih
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.08.03 08:37:00 -
[75]
Go to hell.
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Tzujeih
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.08.03 08:38:00 -
[76]
Go to hell.
|
Tzujeih
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.08.03 08:39:00 -
[77]
Go to hell.
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Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.03 09:01:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Joss Sparq on 03/08/2008 09:02:19
I'm ambivalent about the RP gain aspect but I'll happily offer a firm NO to removing SP gain from inactive accounts. I think that was something CCP did well from the start and removing it will hurt EVE.
Also, I would think these are two distinct issues that should have two distinct threads for discussion.
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alt 089888
|
Posted - 2008.08.03 11:20:00 -
[79]
Go back to WoW noob!! This is one of the key features of eve.
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Big Al
Stoat's Ultimate Carebear Adventure
|
Posted - 2008.08.03 16:10:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Big Al on 03/08/2008 16:10:00 CCP seem content to keep shooting themselves in the foot. I see no reason not to go ahead with this.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 15:46:00 -
[81]
Hell yes, how hard can it be to code?
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 17:34:00 -
[82]
Much to my dismay CCP has decided to move on this issue without the CSM delegates debating the value of eliminating Ghost training but leaving all other ghost activities in. (RP farming & Market Orders) I would have preferred smaller steps eliminating some of the absentee resource gains other than skill training. (Again, I don't ghost train.) I would have also liked to see some sort of guidelines to cover the occasional billing problem here and there that does, often enough, crop up. Sad that CCP will latch onto an idea from the players but will not discuss the idea they co-opt with their customers. In fact, I think CCP has forgotten that in the end they are a service provider and we are the customers. Rile us at risk to your business... in an already risky economy for you.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 18:08:00 -
[83]
Agree,
There is no good reason to allow unpaid accounts to gain skills.
Originally by: Shadarle I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu |
Mierin Rayen
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:43:00 -
[84]
Yes. If you're going to do something, you need to be consistent with it.
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zzbooks
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 16:01:00 -
[85]
You do not know that Ghost RP are not going to be removed. Changes that will dramatically affect the value of in-game items (datacores in this case) are never announced pre-patch.
Yes I have been buying datacores today, starting a good rumour means I win even if I am wrong.
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Kerfira
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:19:00 -
[86]
Fully supported!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:44:00 -
[87]
Originally by: zzbooks Changes that will dramatically affect the value of in-game items (datacores in this case) are never announced pre-patch.
:speednerf:
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Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:50:00 -
[88]
Diary of a pod pilot |
Zanpt
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 12:04:00 -
[89]
No, this is a stupid suggestion. Unfortunately CCP already made the abso****inglutely stupid decision to nerf so-called "ghost training." (Funny, I don't recall ever seeing it referred to by that mildly pajorative term until they decided to nerf it.) |
NO CARRIER
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 04:22:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Windjammer Why should CCP support the interests of people who aren't paying at the expense of those who are?
Sorry, no, the question is nonsensical. There's no trade-off. The "interests" to which you refer are not supported at the expense of anyone else. SP and RP are not zero-sum mechanisms. Look up the term. Most of the things nonthinking people think are zero-sum are actually not.
Originally by: Windjammer Eliminating absentee skill training would set the stage for skill training ques. Something most active players would like to see. If CCP were to institute a skill que under current conditions, absentee players would be able to set up long que's and train without paying for months.
You fail again. Don't try to design things you don't know how to design. A simple rule would prevent the problem you mistakenly believe would occur: keep absentee training as it is, but the queue doesn't kick in while you're suspended. That would give us a queue but keep unsub training just as it has been for 5 years. See how easy that was?
Originally by: Windjammer This is and would playing for free.
You also seem to be confused about what constitutes "playing."
I won't go into RP as it isn't my thing, but training SPs are bought and paid for the moment you click to initiate the training step. There is no ongoing training activity -- it's an illusion. There is only a completion date/time, which only means you can't use the benefit of the skill step before that time, and whether you "play" or not in the meantime is completely irrelevant. Therefore whether you pay in the meantime should also be irrelevant.
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Col Callahan
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.20 09:46:00 -
[91]
Two words come to mined, SOD OFF >!!!! _
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.20 20:55:00 -
[92]
Nope, we all have the ability to do it (ok, 1 of the 2 stated at least). The Ghost-training vote thread |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.21 22:18:00 -
[93]
I fully support this thread now. I now realize that if:
1) Datacores Canceled. 2) Sell Orders Canceled. 3) RP Collection Canceled.
Will make me allot of ISK in game.
Sorry for disagreeing with you Shar, it was a principal thing before. Now that we can no longer finish training while inactive, I think we should really go for the gold. And, this is actually a thought out change of mind here, not being facetious at all.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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CharlieMurphy
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2008.10.21 23:20:00 -
[94]
you do have to wonder tho, how many inactive accounts are there just accumulating datacores? I hadnt really even thought about it until i read this thread, but farming isk on an inactive accout seems like a way to progress in the game without paying to me and is blatently unfair to the honest player
I really cant see how CCP could justify letting this continue considering the comments made in the dev blog abotu why they stopped ghost training Lets hope CCP are true to their word and stamp this kind of exploitation of an "unintended feature" out ASAP
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Mos7Wan7ed
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Posted - 2008.12.16 02:16:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed on 16/12/2008 02:22:34
mm maybe i should look into farming rp..
awesome idea, assuming i gathered once a year, i wonder how many rp gathering alts you would need before the process does more then feed it's self.
depending on how many accounts i create.. bet it could pay for itself, a few of my accounts, and all the income those alts could possibly need..
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Cyprus Black
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.12.17 03:45:00 -
[96]
See? This is the perfect example of why we need a thumbs down option. ___________________________________________________ The Escapist: EvE Online video review. |
Terra Mikael
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.12.17 04:58:00 -
[97]
I have no idea what you're talking about, but it sounds like you're going out of your way to screw someone who isn't hurting you.
so **** you.
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Originally by: Korovyov You WIN! And by win, I mean suck horse manure.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.17 07:46:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Mos7Wan7ed Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed on 16/12/2008 02:22:34
mm maybe i should look into farming rp..
awesome idea, assuming i gathered once a year, i wonder how many rp gathering alts you would need before the process does more then feed it's self.
depending on how many accounts i create.. bet it could pay for itself, a few of my accounts, and all the income those alts could possibly need..
You have need to spend about 2 month for each character to train and build up standing. So after 6 months you will have 5 R&D agents on each character (the fifth is another 25 days of training for character, so no training that without gosth training). Each character will produce approximately 10 datacores every day that you can sell for 300K each (rough averages).
So 9 millions day for account. 270 millions in 1 month, 540 millions in 2 months. Essentially every 66 of datacore gathering you can pay 1 GTC.
So reactivating the account once year can gather 3.200.000.000 and spend 600.000.000.
Honestly, seeing at it require 6 month of paid account and work to get it started, hardly worth it. (Ah, about 200 millions of implants and skillbooks for each character too)
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ArmyOfMe
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.12.17 08:00:00 -
[99]
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
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