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Sivonya
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Posted - 2008.08.03 23:00:00 -
[1]
Vagabonds are in great peril
I did test vagabond with various fitting on singularity and didnt like what i saw.
Regular vaga fit with 2 overdive, nanofiber and 2 gyro does not make vagabond go even 3km/s (orbit aroun 2.4km/s)
Full nano low slot (without gyrostabilizers), with speed hardwirings and polycarbons goes 3.6km/s (orbit around 2.9km/s)
Even when full nano fit (no gyrostabilizers - it has no dps to kill a npc in belt) in orbit of 2.9km/s it gets hammered by missiles
Now Vagabond cant even tackle anything longer than 30 secs, cant avoid missiles, cant reach the falcon jamming at 200km away in reasonable time cant runaway when situation gets hot
so how can vaga be king of guerilla warfare when any ceptors can kill it easily (or asault or electronic frigs) minmatars got their main advantage nerfed, its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half or galente dronebays reduced to by 50%
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Relliassa
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Posted - 2008.08.03 23:30:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14 So you're not totally immune to missiles, uncatchable and close to unkillable if you're a competant pilot. Cry more. And I thought the funniest bit was "its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half" - when it's actually Caldari who've been screwed over already by precisely those ships you're BAWWWing over.
How about doing what nano*** pilots have been telling everyone else to do: adapt and survive. Yeah those words sound a whole lot nastier when it's other people saying it to you eh?
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.08.03 23:34:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Relliassa Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14 So you're not totally immune to missiles, uncatchable and close to unkillable if you're a competant pilot. Cry more. And I thought the funniest bit was "its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half" - when it's actually Caldari who've been screwed over already by precisely those ships you're BAWWWing over.
How about doing what nano*** pilots have been telling everyone else to do: adapt and survive. Yeah those words sound a whole lot nastier when it's other people saying it to you eh?
Be careful what you wish for. This is what happens when nanopilots adapt:
http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=141675
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Ralkoth
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Posted - 2008.08.04 00:44:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Relliassa Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14
And I thought the funniest bit was "its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half" - when it's actually Caldari who've been screwed over already by precisely those ships you're BAWWWing over.
"I got killed by a vagabond and now vagabonds should NEVER BE USEFUL IN PvP AGAIN! REVENGE!!!!!!!"
Its called balance, you idiot. yes, there is a problem with nano ships going "ludicrous speeds" but the current patch has made the vagabond COMPLETELY USELESS. This is a problem which needs to be fixed to make minmatar even worth flying.
Oh, and people whining about nanos never adapted. They cried to CCP until they got them nerfed to death. you have no ground to say "adapt or die" on.
CCP needs to find a fix for minmatar ships before this patch goes live.
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Sivonya
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Posted - 2008.08.04 01:09:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Relliassa Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14 So you're not totally immune to missiles, uncatchable and close to unkillable if you're a competant pilot. Cry more.
What do you know about me and my pilot skilz?!?!? so just shush And the post above this hit the right spot Yes nano ganges deserve a nerf But cutting speed for more than 50% plus warp scremble buff is too much. Small changes are good BUT this!!! this is a slaughter Vagabond loses its purpose and so do minmatar
Makes me think maybe ccp is making us lab rats (like : how do players addapt to imposible)
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Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.04 01:22:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Be careful what you wish for. This is what happens when nanopilots adapt:
http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=141675
But Triumvirate guys know their stuff and don't whine on the forums so much?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.04 02:16:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Relliassa Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14 How about doing what nano*** pilots have been telling everyone else to do: adapt and survive. Yeah those words sound a whole lot nastier when it's other people saying it to you eh?
I wish people would stop saying this.... I'm assuming you didn't adapt so this wasn't useful advice for you but you decide to return that semi useless advice and rub it in the face of any random person that was using a weapon system you didn't like.
Now before you say I'm a nano*** whining cause my snakes don't make me untouchable anymore, I don't fly nano. My navigation skills are pitiful, I never wanted to train them. So why does this affect me? I learnt to adapt to nerfs about a year ago by deciding to just fly the sort of style that I like for the race that I like and ignore whats the current fotm. I chose minmatar support/sniper and industrial because both of those suited how I like to play games (any game not just eve).
Now I always felt when flying minmatar, I could be doing better in my scorpian/basalisk (which I fly occasionally) rather than my scimitar but my rapier was a decent ship, more tackle than ew support and as I didn't nano I couldn't catch any super nano's with it but it was fun to fly. I however took comfort in the knowledge that minmatar had awesome ships like the vaga, claw etc that balanced out many of the below average ships I liked. Now ccp have decided to completely destroy those ships and not only that but nerf my sniper bs and kill my rapier. I agree that a nerf was needed as even in a rapier with 2 sensor boosters I couldn't lock them fast enough but the nerf is not only 2 much it replaces their effective counter with warp scramblers (and that's 1 module I never want to see on a rapier setup).
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Sivonya
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Posted - 2008.08.04 02:24:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Sivonya on 04/08/2008 02:25:25 i believe this patch can be bareable for minmatars if CCP changes some things, for example:
1.Vagabond gains some extra speed bonus
2.Recons get web strenght as well as range
3.Commands and others lose some of their fat (mass)
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Slade Hoo
Amarr xPlaguex
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Posted - 2008.08.04 02:53:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Slade Hoo on 04/08/2008 02:53:30
Originally by: Sivonya Edited by: Sivonya on 04/08/2008 02:25:25 1.Vagabond gains some extra speed bonus
2.Recons get web strenght as well as range
3.Commands and others lose some of their fat (mass)
1. look at ship bonuses. vaga already got more speed 2. recons already got range bonus. strength bonus? this would turn the anti-AB-Module to something else. rapier is still faster when single webbing an interceptor with MWD. adapt to new role. 3. Commands are BC, they are fat and should stay fat
I'm training for sleipnir/fleet stabber right now. Got no problem with patch at all.
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Sivonya
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Posted - 2008.08.04 02:57:00 -
[10]
do you fly vaga or rapier in gangs,i guess not cos you just dont understand
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rValdez5987
Amarr Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.08.04 03:47:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Relliassa Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14 So you're not totally immune to missiles, uncatchable and close to unkillable if you're a competant pilot. Cry more. And I thought the funniest bit was "its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half" - when it's actually Caldari who've been screwed over already by precisely those ships you're BAWWWing over.
How about doing what nano*** pilots have been telling everyone else to do: adapt and survive. Yeah those words sound a whole lot nastier when it's other people saying it to you eh?
Be careful what you wish for. This is what happens when nanopilots adapt:
http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=141675
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH HYDRA HAHHAHAHAH MAJESTA HAHAHAHHAHA.
go tri go! Kill them all.
More fights, less nano ***gotry is always a good thing.
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Sivonya
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Posted - 2008.08.04 05:05:00 -
[12]
nice job, great link ... still thats beside the topic
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.08.04 05:13:00 -
[13]
I fly the Rapier/Huginn/Vaga (and nano Ishtar, nano Zealot, Nano Sac etc.) and I'm not really finding the Min cruisers nerfed.
The Minnies cry foul like *THEIR* ships were nerfed and no one elses were touched. Totally not the case. All the ships are slower, and the Minmatar ships, while slower, have an even wider gap between them and the slower ships. Percentage wise, they're faster than ever when compared to other ships of like class.
And the Rapiers? Everyone's web is nerfed. Not just the Rapiers. I'll say it again: in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION
Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Sivonya
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Posted - 2008.08.04 05:23:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Sivonya on 04/08/2008 05:23:14 i will copy myself
Say you have a astarte jump in through gate, you double web him with huggin and you and 5 others in t2 crusers start attacking him... he will nonetheless tank that long and go back to gate/jump out just a slow glide but sufficient
say you are in vagabond and come across drake or raven in belt, you tackle it and call on your gang to come and help who are 50 au away. Buy the time they reach you are either dead or had to let go the target because caldari missiles ripped you apart( so i dont see how vaga is overgrown ceptor when it goes 2x times less km/s)
how than they didnt lose purpose?
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.08.04 05:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sivonya Vagabonds are in great peril
I did test vagabond with various fitting on singularity and didnt like what i saw.
Regular vaga fit with 2 overdive, nanofiber and 2 gyro does not make vagabond go even 3km/s (orbit aroun 2.4km/s)
Full nano low slot (without gyrostabilizers), with speed hardwirings and polycarbons goes 3.6km/s (orbit around 2.9km/s)
Even when full nano fit (no gyrostabilizers - it has no dps to kill a npc in belt) in orbit of 2.9km/s it gets hammered by missiles
Now Vagabond cant even tackle anything longer than 30 secs, cant avoid missiles, cant reach the falcon jamming at 200km away in reasonable time cant runaway when situation gets hot
so how can vaga be king of guerilla warfare when any ceptors can kill it easily (or asault or electronic frigs) minmatars got their main advantage nerfed, its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half or galente dronebays reduced to by 50%
those look like great speeds for a cruiser sized hull ... I mean a bit more and you are faster than frigates ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
Sturmwolke
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.04 06:01:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sivonya Edited by: Sivonya on 04/08/2008 05:23:14 Say you have a astarte jump in through gate, you double web him with huggin and you and 5 others in t2 crusers start attacking him... he will nonetheless tank that long and go back to gate/jump out just a slow glide but sufficient
say you are in vagabond and come across drake or raven in belt, you tackle it and call on your gang to come and help who are 50 au away. Buy the time they reach you are either dead or had to let go the target because caldari missiles ripped you apart( so i dont see how vaga is overgrown ceptor when it goes 2x times less km/s)
You DO know that the BSes gained mass in SiSi and of course you DO know that their speed and agility is reduced right? In the remote chance that the Astarte got away with an AB, you DO know that you can apply the same thing to your enemies, yes? ... then you can berate your little gang for screwing up and have them refit for a more effective countermeasures.
Tackling Ravens and Drakes, hmm ... yes, I'm sure you and everyone else that's in love with the Vaga want it to ascend to godhood and be almost untouchable by anything - be it turret ship or missile ships (with T1 launchers).
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Sivonya
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Posted - 2008.08.04 10:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka those look like great speeds for a cruiser sized hull ... I mean a bit more and you are faster than frigates ...
thats as fast as you can get with all bonuses except snakes, total reduction on dps which is not wanted, so Most likely we have to fit 2 gyros and thus make vaga utterly slow
Yes other nanoes get nerfed as well but most you can easily armor tank them except vaga
And Vaga is not invulnerable when orbiting a npcing raven, its always target to overheating webs bumping rocks and neutralizers as well as limited cap. So if you catch a raven in belt you can hold him some odd 2 minuted and have to run after. But with the patch you cant hold it not even 30 sec
Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most
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necronarcosis
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.08.04 10:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sivonya
Originally by: Hugh Ruka those look like great speeds for a cruiser sized hull ... I mean a bit more and you are faster than frigates ...
thats as fast as you can get with all bonuses except snakes, total reduction on dps which is not wanted, so Most likely we have to fit 2 gyros and thus make vaga utterly slow
Yes other nanoes get nerfed as well but most you can easily armor tank them except vaga
And Vaga is not invulnerable when orbiting a npcing raven, its always target to overheating webs bumping rocks and neutralizers as well as limited cap. So if you catch a raven in belt you can hold him some odd 2 minuted and have to run after. But with the patch you cant hold it not even 30 sec
Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most
and you think you should be able to solo a battleship with ease in your t2 cruiser? when most t1 battlecruisers can solo most non nano t2 cruisers.?
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Zhilan Alaioki
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Posted - 2008.08.04 12:03:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Zhilan Alaioki on 04/08/2008 12:06:04 Jesus ****ing christ. I hate this Vagabonds are uncatchable bullshit. In lowsec it might be true but in 0.0 it simply isnt. There are many ways to catch a Vaga, especially the 2 shield extender and no anti nano module fitting. ONE fast interceptor with a web is enough in that case! Just because you run around in lowsec and suck at catching ships donŠt spout bullshit about uncatchable Vagas. Yes, those faction fitted snaked up Vagas are absurd, but very few people fly those and the problem is not the Vaga its the absurd mods like snakes.
This patch will kill them and every Vaga pilot and even non Vaga pilot I know agrees. The problem is not that theyre not faster than other ships, they still are. Its just that to run from a gatecamp or out of a combat situation a difference in speed of 500m/s is not enough, sorry. Difference to most HACs was 2k/s before and thats a BIG difference.
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2008.08.04 12:27:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Keitaro Baka on 04/08/2008 12:28:10
Originally by: Zhilan Alaioki Edited by: Zhilan Alaioki on 04/08/2008 12:06:04 Jesus ****ing christ. I hate this Vagabonds are uncatchable bullshit. In lowsec it might be true but in 0.0 it simply isnt. There are many ways to catch a Vaga, especially the 2 shield extender and no anti nano module fitting. ONE fast interceptor with a web is enough in that case! Just because you run around in lowsec and suck at catching ships donŠt spout bullshit about uncatchable Vagas. Yes, those faction fitted snaked up Vagas are absurd, but very few people fly those and the problem is not the Vaga its the absurd mods like snakes.
This patch will kill them and every Vaga pilot and even non Vaga pilot I know agrees. The problem is not that theyre not faster than other ships, they still are. Its just that to run from a gatecamp or out of a combat situation a difference in speed of 500m/s is not enough, sorry. Difference to most HACs was 2k/s before and thats a BIG difference.
You reply is made of Fail. Opening (after editing) cursing, hating and 'bullshit' rarely makes people read on. When they do they read wrong arguments in your post..
Never have I not died when catching a vagabond with a webbing ceptor. Most often I die before I reach it. Something about the ship just kills ceptor soo damn fast (might be the really good ACs, missiles or warrior II's, or it's web, or the combo of those..).
I as a 0.0 inhabitant, see faction fitted, snaked up vagas too often, they often switch between their claymores, sleipnirs and vagas tho. Every nano vaga I see however is always rigged and always easily pushing 8km/s in a straight line. My crusader ow sorry I need a ceptor with web my malediction needs some damned good gang skills to catch up to that, and will die if it does.
You and those you know that feel the vaga is killed by this patch are certainly not an isolated group, but true pvp pilots will and have adapted. You're still faster than any cruiser out there and you can still kill frigates and cruisers pretty well. The difference to most hacs was indeed absurd, but let's not forget, after this patch/nerf (disregarding all teh changes that will happen before that) the vagabond is one of the few if not the only speed hac out there.
Nano ishtars will die faster than AFs, maybe zealots can reach some nice speed but you would be stupid to do so because it's not sustainable and really hurts your ability to do damage, so the difference will still be around 1.5km/s.. Relativity works both ways. The vagabond will still be the speed king of hacs by far if you want use a full speed fit. Of course you shouldn't because you can't speed tank nearly as well as before. Luckily. It is over the top.
That said, like I have said many times before, in the current SiSi build the vaga could get a final (after full speed fit) speed bonus of 25%. Ceptors too.
Drones and missiles will then still be pretty much ok.
All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide.. |
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Zhilan Alaioki
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Posted - 2008.08.04 12:52:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Zhilan Alaioki on 04/08/2008 12:54:52 Well if you have died then your interceptor was not fast enough or they had a web or neut. Look at the killboards though, there are tons of Vagas that fit 2 large extenders and a heavy missile launcher and in that case you dont stand a chance against a sufficiently fast interceptor. Of course I dont mean normal t2 fitted interceptors, but there are enough interceptors out there that go 10k+ and you simply cant kill them in a Vaga if you dont have an anti nano module fitted. Of course I also wasnt talking about snaked up Vagas and I admitted that they were a problem, which you also seem to have missed. Its also not as if that were the only way to catch a Vaga. If they are so uncatchable then please tell me why they pop up on killboards so often? Because blobs kill them just as quickly as any other ship. An interceptor doesnt need to survive for long tackling it if it has a 10+ people backup shooting at the webbed Vaga.
What you dont seem to take into account is that its slow as hell now and wont be in warp quickly anymore. It will be the only real nano hac, but nano hacs as a whole will not be fast enough to escape most situations anymore, making it simply way too fragile.
Im also a 0.0 inhbitant and have seen quite a few Vagas in my time and I have fought Stain Empire these last few weeks, so Ive had some good opponents.
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Trojanman190
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.08.04 13:18:00 -
[22]
Originally by: rValdez5987
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Relliassa Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14 So you're not totally immune to missiles, uncatchable and close to unkillable if you're a competant pilot. Cry more. And I thought the funniest bit was "its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half" - when it's actually Caldari who've been screwed over already by precisely those ships you're BAWWWing over.
How about doing what nano*** pilots have been telling everyone else to do: adapt and survive. Yeah those words sound a whole lot nastier when it's other people saying it to you eh?
Be careful what you wish for. This is what happens when nanopilots adapt:
http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=141675
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH HYDRA HAHHAHAHAH MAJESTA HAHAHAHHAHA.
go tri go! Kill them all.
More fights, less nano ***gotry is always a good thing.
We had a battle the day before that was even more telling. No titans involved, our MUCH smaller battleship fleet took on a NC 150 - 200 man nano gang. With no titan involved, we got the exact same results with only a few support loses.
Nanoing is all about pilot and fc skills, teamwork and intelligence are critical. We (and alliances like us, pl, etc) are very ****ing good at what we set out to be good at. We set out to be good at nanoing and we are, obviously, extremely good at it.
But as that age comes to a close, even if it is a big steaming load of crap, we are already playing with other ideas and coming up with the next things people are going to be screaming 'NERF!' for.
We will be better at them too no doubt.
We will see about this more fights thing. Hopefully they wont involve 30 second module lag... nano was a good tank against the lag monster.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD Solidus Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.04 13:35:00 -
[23]
all non-vaga matari say: remove its speed bonus!
then we can start balancing speed again. i hate going 2.4km/s in the scimi just because the vaga can go 3km/s... - putting the gist back into logistics |
AshtarDJ
Filthy Scum
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Posted - 2008.08.04 15:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sivonya Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most
Good example with the caldari ECM ships, but not quite the thruth... and I'll tell you why:
This patch is taking about 33% of the strentgh of the webbers on all ships, but at the same time it is taking arround 50% off all faster (MWD + nano) ships in this game. Many other ships gained mass and lost agility, makes them slower to reach top speed, thus webbers even more effective. Pretty much all ships after the patch will be slower, so a rapier/huginn with 2x webbers will still be very effective.
If I'm to translate the web changes to your ECM comparison, it would be like CCP making all ECM 33% weaker, but taking 50% off the sensor strength of most ships in game.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Infinity Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.08.04 15:16:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Originally by: Sivonya Vagabonds are in great peril
I did test vagabond with various fitting on singularity and didnt like what i saw.
Regular vaga fit with 2 overdive, nanofiber and 2 gyro does not make vagabond go even 3km/s (orbit aroun 2.4km/s)
Full nano low slot (without gyrostabilizers), with speed hardwirings and polycarbons goes 3.6km/s (orbit around 2.9km/s)
Even when full nano fit (no gyrostabilizers - it has no dps to kill a npc in belt) in orbit of 2.9km/s it gets hammered by missiles
Now Vagabond cant even tackle anything longer than 30 secs, cant avoid missiles, cant reach the falcon jamming at 200km away in reasonable time cant runaway when situation gets hot
so how can vaga be king of guerilla warfare when any ceptors can kill it easily (or asault or electronic frigs) minmatars got their main advantage nerfed, its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half or galente dronebays reduced to by 50%
those look like great speeds for a cruiser sized hull ... I mean a bit more and you are faster than frigates ...
Irrelevant. You still take 100% of damage from missiles and you can easily be tracked by medium guns and even in some cases battleship guns.
We don't ask for invulnerability. But woudl be pretty fair if a ship focused on speed tanking could diminish A BIT the damage it recieves from weapons of same size. At least for god's sake make it enough to escape the SLOWEST medium drones ( think the ammar ones) and avoid 30-40% of amage from missiles and guns of same size. You know when you change all your fittings from tank into speed you desenvve some return. A speed tank should tank LESS than an armor or shield tank. But Shoudl tank more than ZERO. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Infinity Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.08.04 15:18:00 -
[26]
Originally by: AshtarDJ
Originally by: Sivonya Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most
Good example with the caldari ECM ships, but not quite the thruth... and I'll tell you why:
This patch is taking about 33% of the strentgh of the webbers on all ships, but at the same time it is taking arround 50% off all faster (MWD + nano) ships in this game. Many other ships gained mass and lost agility, makes them slower to reach top speed, thus webbers even more effective. Pretty much all ships after the patch will be slower, so a rapier/huginn with 2x webbers will still be very effective.
If I'm to translate the web changes to your ECM comparison, it would be like CCP making all ECM 33% weaker, but taking 50% off the sensor strength of most ships in game.
The way you present numbers is a bit skewed.
Previous web reduced your speed to 10% now your speed will be 40%. that means they 4 times difference. That means tyhe effective result of the web application has been reduced by 75% ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Sivonya
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Posted - 2008.08.04 15:30:00 -
[27]
Originally by: AshtarDJ
Originally by: Sivonya Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most
Good example with the caldari ECM ships, but not quite the thruth... and I'll tell you why:
This patch is taking about 33% of the strentgh of the webbers on all ships, but at the same time it is taking arround 50% off all faster (MWD + nano) ships in this game. Many other ships gained mass and lost agility, makes them slower to reach top speed, thus webbers even more effective. Pretty much all ships after the patch will be slower, so a rapier/huginn with 2x webbers will still be very effective.
If I'm to translate the web changes to your ECM comparison, it would be like CCP making all ECM 33% weaker, but taking 50% off the sensor strength of most ships in game.
ok lets put those numbers on paper BEFORE: ship that goes 6km/s with 2 t2 webs gets reduction to 60m/s AFTER: ship that goes 6km/s with 2 t2 goes 960m/s, oh wait it got nerfed so instead of 6km/s in start it goes 3km/s but still 3km/s with t2 x2 webs goes 480m/s
Before: 60m/s After: 480m/s so thats 8x more speed when webbed... almost as if it is not webbed lol
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Trojanman190
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.08.04 16:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sivonya
Originally by: AshtarDJ
Originally by: Sivonya Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most
Good example with the caldari ECM ships, but not quite the thruth... and I'll tell you why:
This patch is taking about 33% of the strentgh of the webbers on all ships, but at the same time it is taking arround 50% off all faster (MWD + nano) ships in this game. Many other ships gained mass and lost agility, makes them slower to reach top speed, thus webbers even more effective. Pretty much all ships after the patch will be slower, so a rapier/huginn with 2x webbers will still be very effective.
If I'm to translate the web changes to your ECM comparison, it would be like CCP making all ECM 33% weaker, but taking 50% off the sensor strength of most ships in game.
ok lets put those numbers on paper BEFORE: ship that goes 6km/s with 2 t2 webs gets reduction to 60m/s AFTER: ship that goes 6km/s with 2 t2 goes 960m/s, oh wait it got nerfed so instead of 6km/s in start it goes 3km/s but still 3km/s with t2 x2 webs goes 480m/s
Before: 60m/s After: 480m/s so thats 8x more speed when webbed... almost as if it is not webbed lol
But still not fast enough to speed tank or even get away. And then the mwd gets shut down...
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Nian Banks
Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2008.08.04 16:13:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Nian Banks on 04/08/2008 16:13:44
Originally by: Sivonya
Originally by: AshtarDJ
Originally by: Sivonya Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most
Good example with the caldari ECM ships, but not quite the thruth... and I'll tell you why:
This patch is taking about 33% of the strentgh of the webbers on all ships, but at the same time it is taking arround 50% off all faster (MWD + nano) ships in this game. Many other ships gained mass and lost agility, makes them slower to reach top speed, thus webbers even more effective. Pretty much all ships after the patch will be slower, so a rapier/huginn with 2x webbers will still be very effective.
If I'm to translate the web changes to your ECM comparison, it would be like CCP making all ECM 33% weaker, but taking 50% off the sensor strength of most ships in game.
ok lets put those numbers on paper BEFORE: ship that goes 6km/s with 2 t2 webs gets reduction to 60m/s AFTER: ship that goes 6km/s with 2 t2 goes 960m/s, oh wait it got nerfed so instead of 6km/s in start it goes 3km/s but still 3km/s with t2 x2 webs goes 480m/s
Before: 60m/s After: 480m/s so thats 8x more speed when webbed... almost as if it is not webbed lol
Replied from another thread about the damage this is doing to the entire minmatar fleet. Sivonya was kind enough to link her comment into the other thread so I am kindly slapping her around in both with this reply. COPY&PASTE
Hrm your a moron, But let me explain why so you don't complain like a biatch. Minmatar ships fight in falloff, deep in falloff. Do you know why? The main reason is that minmatar ships have sub standard tanks in conjunction with low dps, we can't slug it out toe to toe with any other races ships because we can't take their hits long enough to down their tank, Basically we need to keep our distance and stay out of web range so as to be fast and to allow us to disengage, because 9/10 times we need to run away, So WE STAY OUT OF WEB RANGE! Your comparison of a vaga unwebbed and a vaga webbed is a pointless statement made by a trolling looser who knows jack crap about how to pilot minmatar ships so get out.
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Spurty
Caldari Trader's Academy Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2008.08.04 17:43:00 -
[30]
well on sisi, I had to put a sensor booster (dropped the point, in close enough for that and you are soon off to create a new ship lol) on my vaga and spit missiles at people from a safe distance after dropping my drones on them as well.
Worked fine from the point of view of speed tanking guns, dps horrible mind you (5 light drones and 2 heavy missiles) but I was fighting effectively out of harms way.
Interception by a vaga of anything its sized or bigger is going to be a lopsided fight. The vaga on the losing side.
Anything that spews missiles fast (cerb) will force the vaga away. Does not do 100% damage to it, but it hurts enough to make you well aware this fight isn't going to go your way anymore.
Caldari got teeth at the moment. Its going to change the way some fleets are formed. Also, inty pilots are going to be tested to the max.
Expect lag issues to be the a terrible bane of all 'transversal sensitive' pilots. -- Two prostitutes standing on a street corner. One says to the other, "Have you ever been picked up by the fuzz?" The other replies, "No, but I've been swung around by the ****!" |
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