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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 07:32:00 -
[421]
Originally by: SATAN
You are either incompetent or just trolling, cause I can assure you any webbed inty is going to get 1 volley death from any compitent gunboat if its in its range. While missiles are useless in the same situation, and do 1/2 the dps of the gunboat on large targets.
I wouldnt be THAT sure of it SATAN :) AB intys (and MWD ones if sig reduction goes thru) are pain in the ass to hit now - tho if they get tackled by rapier (2x web) they will go down fast anyways. But true that killing em with ravens will be crap now. Small drones needed (on raps/ravens). On the other hand keeping distance should be much easier now. |
Opertone
Caldari SIEGE. United Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:02:00 -
[422]
heavy neut is the new plague for the interceptors... keep the away, 24 km from you so their scram can't lock on you.
yes you can scare off an interceptor, but by no means you can kill or even instapop it... they have all the time on earth to get away.
a simple dampener will **** an interceptor pretty much, you can fit it still, even if the heavy neut isn't an option for your setup... ceptor will have to go into 14 km orbit and closer, at this point medium neut can terminate his mission
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Iog Krugar
The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:17:00 -
[423]
Edited by: Iog Krugar on 24/10/2008 08:19:27
Originally by: Opertone heavy neut is the new plague for the interceptors... keep the away, 24 km from you so their scram can't lock on you.
yes you can scare off an interceptor, but by no means you can kill or even instapop it... they have all the time on earth to get away.
a simple dampener will **** an interceptor pretty much, you can fit it still, even if the heavy neut isn't an option for your setup... ceptor will have to go into 14 km orbit and closer, at this point medium neut can terminate his mission
neutralizer + light drones messes frigates up pretty well. light drones hurt a hell of a lot more than mediums now (on 30m sig radius at least), you can keep different damage types at hand and you can keep them coming, even with a ravens drone bay. unless the frigate is lagged to hell and back (try switching overview panes in ffa1...), fending off a frigate WILL cost you a bunch of drones, and without the neutralizer the frigate may just keep popping them until you run out. so have an eye on your drone window, scoop/redeploy them frequently and hope the frigate pilot is so busy with retargeting your drones that he forgets to reactivate the scrambler.
whoever holds medium t2 drone BPOs is not gonna like this patch at all...
something else: i really think that stealth bombers should be able to hurt moving frigates. hurt = more than what you can rep up until the next volley comes in... |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:39:00 -
[424]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 24/10/2008 08:43:53
Originally by: Deva Blackfire O yea now i remember:
that interceptor MWD sig reduction - you said that at lvl5 it gives more-less the tank ability of ABing ceptor and this is BAD. If all it should be at least 50% weaker or something to give advantage to AB ship compared to MWD (also to stop stupid ceptors hanging at 30km and spamming missiles like they always do, being immune to retaliation).
agreed, while it should be a lot better than other ships using a MWD, it should NOT be as good as an AB.
This would make them super anti-frigate. |
Vigaz
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:54:00 -
[425]
From Devblog: "Speed must never reach ludicrous speed, which is defined as speeds where missiles and drones don't intercept the class of ship they were intended for
This is our celestial vision. "
Let me say that a BS with MWD should be 250-300 m/s max 'ludicrous' speed. 106m/s is the max exp velocity of a cruise missile and 71m/s for torpedo. In Sisi, a t1 fitted Domi with MWD is now immune to all BS missiles (cruise and torpedo).
This is in line with your celestial vision? |
DaveJ777
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:02:00 -
[426]
I've done some testing with sieged citadels vs a Revelation (out of siege). 9800 damage at 0m/s 4900 at 10 3800 at 13 2300 at 23 2200 at 25 930 at 61
Not even going its full speed, the damage is already reduced by over 90%. The damage reductions are even larger for carriers.
Is the Phoenix intended to be useless vs other ships now? Being highly vulnerable to smartbombs was bad enough... |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:19:00 -
[427]
Sieged revelation does whole 0m/s. If its unsieged - get webs on them (rapiers/ceptors/whatever).
Only problem i see with this is supercaps and their web immunity. |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:21:00 -
[428]
Edited by: lecrotta on 24/10/2008 09:25:47
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: SATAN
You are either incompetent or just trolling, cause I can assure you any webbed inty is going to get 1 volley death from any compitent gunboat if its in its range. While missiles are useless in the same situation, and do 1/2 the dps of the gunboat on large targets.
I wouldnt be THAT sure of it SATAN :) AB intys (and MWD ones if sig reduction goes thru) are pain in the ass to hit now - tho if they get tackled by rapier (2x web) they will go down fast anyways. But true that killing em with ravens will be crap now. Small drones needed (on raps/ravens). On the other hand keeping distance should be much easier now.
Actually a inty with a little over 200ms transversal cannot be hit by a mega with max skills so at 5000ms and webbers now at 60% you would need 4 webs on him to reduce his transversal to a point where he can start to be hit let alone insta popped.
Oh and cruise are the long range weapon of missiles BS they may have been exploited as a kill all weapon that the other races do not have for their BS but they are now more in line with other long range BS systems.
But it is true that this patch is awful for all pvp and would have been better if speed had been kept the same and additions like the scripted web (range vs str scripts) and the mwd killing scram had just been introduced, and players allowed to combat speed themselves. |
Ruciza
Minmatar The Feminists
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:22:00 -
[429]
Originally by: Vigaz From Devblog: "Speed must never reach ludicrous speed, which is defined as speeds where missiles and drones don't intercept the class of ship they were intended for
This is our celestial vision. "
Let me say that a BS with MWD should be 250-300 m/s max 'ludicrous' speed. 106m/s is the max exp velocity of a cruise missile and 71m/s for torpedo. In Sisi, a t1 fitted Domi with MWD is now immune to all BS missiles (cruise and torpedo).
This is in line with your celestial vision?
I think the mwd sig radius of the Domi will counter it with the new missile formula, where damage reduction is dependent on ship sig radius/ship velocity. Say a cruise has half the ex radius of the Domi' sig. The mwd multiplies the sig by 5. Then you have a sig 10 times the ex radius, and then the speed of only 3 times the ex velocity doesn't matter so much anymore. |
Rip Striker
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:29:00 -
[430]
Edited by: Rip Striker on 24/10/2008 09:33:49
Originally by: Ruciza
Originally by: Vigaz From Devblog: "Speed must never reach ludicrous speed, which is defined as speeds where missiles and drones don't intercept the class of ship they were intended for
This is our celestial vision. "
Let me say that a BS with MWD should be 250-300 m/s max 'ludicrous' speed. 106m/s is the max exp velocity of a cruise missile and 71m/s for torpedo. In Sisi, a t1 fitted Domi with MWD is now immune to all BS missiles (cruise and torpedo).
This is in line with your celestial vision?
I think the mwd sig radius of the Domi will counter it with the new missile formula, where damage reduction is dependent on ship sig radius/ship velocity. Say a cruise has half the ex radius of the Domi' sig. The mwd multiplies the sig by 5. Then you have a sig 10 times the ex radius, and then the speed of only 3 times the ex velocity doesn't matter so much anymore.
Unfortunately, that is not how missile damage works. The missile damage formula caps the ratio of Signature_radius/Explosion_radius to 1. Clearly, this means that having a larger sig radius compared to missile explosion radius does not matter at all.
Fly safe!
EDIT: A typical BS has approximately 400 sig radius. Cruise missiles have slight lower expl radius. Hence, the only thing that will matter is the target speed and explosion velocity. While missile damage against AB:ing BSs will be reduced, the missile damage will be significantly reduced against MWD:ing BSs (at least that is how I have figured the missile damage formula). |
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PhatBoy
Caldari Fallen Angel's Blade.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:30:00 -
[431]
Originally by: DaveJ777 I've done some testing with sieged citadels vs a Revelation (out of siege). 9800 damage at 0m/s 4900 at 10 3800 at 13 2300 at 23 2200 at 25 930 at 61
Not even going its full speed, the damage is already reduced by over 90%. The damage reductions are even larger for carriers.
Is the Phoenix intended to be useless vs other ships now? Being highly vulnerable to smartbombs was bad enough...
here is a idea CCP if you honestly put this nerf in why not just remove caldari all together since we wont beable to kill anything |
Iog Krugar
The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:32:00 -
[432]
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 24/10/2008 08:43:53
Originally by: Deva Blackfire O yea now i remember:
that interceptor MWD sig reduction - you said that at lvl5 it gives more-less the tank ability of ABing ceptor and this is BAD. If all it should be at least 50% weaker or something to give advantage to AB ship compared to MWD (also to stop stupid ceptors hanging at 30km and spamming missiles like they always do, being immune to retaliation).
agreed, while it should be a lot better than other ships using a MWD, it should NOT be as good as an AB.
This would make them super anti-frigate.
Interceptor V = 75% reduction in sig radius penalty from MWDs
standard/t2/faction MWD: 500% sig radius penalty -> effective 25% penalty -> just a bit above 40m gistii a-type MWD: 422% sig radius penalty -> effective 5.5% penalty -> sig radius below 40m
nice, but not THAT nice now. faction MWD prices are gonna drop i guess.
still, a ceptor vs AF 1vs1 fight will probably end when one of them rrrrrreally needs to pee or a rapier decloaks and kills them both ;) |
Tnam
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:37:00 -
[433]
Originally by: PhatBoy
Originally by: DaveJ777 I've done some testing with sieged citadels vs a Revelation (out of siege). 9800 damage at 0m/s 4900 at 10 3800 at 13 2300 at 23 2200 at 25 930 at 61
Not even going its full speed, the damage is already reduced by over 90%. The damage reductions are even larger for carriers.
Is the Phoenix intended to be useless vs other ships now? Being highly vulnerable to smartbombs was bad enough...
here is a idea CCP if you honestly put this nerf in why not just remove caldari all together since we wont beable to kill anything
I think these concerns are a bit over the top. There's no way that a dread or carrier is going to kite another dread, it just won't happen. If numbers are equal all the dreads will siege, if one is outnumbered, then its not going to be able to kite because of webs or the likely need to siege to tank.
Pre these changes, 3 faction smartbombs was all that was needed to be completely immune to all citadel torps because they would always get hit by 3 full cycles of smarty while travelling thru the smarty's damage radius. One of the big changes is a big hp boost for citadel torps, which makes this defensive tactic fail.
In short, phoenix can't kill anything except for POS's now and it will be the same after, its still is the very lame dread it was.
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PhatBoy
Caldari Fallen Angel's Blade.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:44:00 -
[434]
Originally by: Tnam
Originally by: PhatBoy
Originally by: DaveJ777 I've done some testing with sieged citadels vs a Revelation (out of siege). 9800 damage at 0m/s 4900 at 10 3800 at 13 2300 at 23 2200 at 25 930 at 61
Not even going its full speed, the damage is already reduced by over 90%. The damage reductions are even larger for carriers.
Is the Phoenix intended to be useless vs other ships now? Being highly vulnerable to smartbombs was bad enough...
here is a idea CCP if you honestly put this nerf in why not just remove caldari all together since we wont beable to kill anything
I think these concerns are a bit over the top. There's no way that a dread or carrier is going to kite another dread, it just won't happen. If numbers are equal all the dreads will siege, if one is outnumbered, then its not going to be able to kite because of webs or the likely need to siege to tank.
Pre these changes, 3 faction smartbombs was all that was needed to be completely immune to all citadel torps because they would always get hit by 3 full cycles of smarty while travelling thru the smarty's damage radius. One of the big changes is a big hp boost for citadel torps, which makes this defensive tactic fail.
In short, phoenix can't kill anything except for POS's now and it will be the same after, its still is the very lame dread it was.
ok here is a question for you what dread is going to fit 3 smarties on it????? the point is the damage reduction of the missles 90% reduction is alittle extreme |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.10.24 10:02:00 -
[435]
Originally by: Vigaz From Devblog: "Speed must never reach ludicrous speed, which is defined as speeds where missiles and drones don't intercept the class of ship they were intended for
This is our celestial vision. "
Let me say that a BS with MWD should be 250-300 m/s max 'ludicrous' speed. 106m/s is the max exp velocity of a cruise missile and 71m/s for torpedo. In Sisi, a t1 fitted Domi with MWD is now immune to all BS missiles (cruise and torpedo).
This is in line with your celestial vision?
Complete nonsense. According to my calculations:
1. Domi moving at 124 m/s takes 100% damage from Cruise and 79% from torps. 2. Domi ABing at 337 m/s takes 58% damage from T1 Cruise and 73% from Precision Cruise. 3. Webbed Domi moving at 50 m/s takes 100% damage from Cruise and 93% from torps. 4. Webbed Domi ABing at 135 m/s takes 100% damage from Cruise and 72% from torps. 5. Painted Domi ABing at 337 m/s takes 79% damage from Cruise and 92% from Precision Cruise. 6. Webbed, painted Domi ABing at 135 m/s takes 100% damage from Cruise and 100% from torps.
The sky is not falling.
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oilio
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.24 10:16:00 -
[436]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Vigaz From Devblog: "Speed must never reach ludicrous speed, which is defined as speeds where missiles and drones don't intercept the class of ship they were intended for
This is our celestial vision. "
Let me say that a BS with MWD should be 250-300 m/s max 'ludicrous' speed. 106m/s is the max exp velocity of a cruise missile and 71m/s for torpedo. In Sisi, a t1 fitted Domi with MWD is now immune to all BS missiles (cruise and torpedo).
This is in line with your celestial vision?
Complete nonsense. According to my calculations:
1. Domi moving at 124 m/s takes 100% damage from Cruise and 79% from torps. 2. Domi ABing at 337 m/s takes 58% damage from T1 Cruise and 73% from Precision Cruise. 3. Webbed Domi moving at 50 m/s takes 100% damage from Cruise and 93% from torps. 4. Webbed Domi ABing at 135 m/s takes 100% damage from Cruise and 72% from torps. 5. Painted Domi ABing at 337 m/s takes 79% damage from Cruise and 92% from Precision Cruise. 6. Webbed, painted Domi ABing at 135 m/s takes 100% damage from Cruise and 100% from torps.
The sky is not falling.
You are KIDDING right?
The weapon that was meant to hit ships SMALLER than a BS now only does just over HALF damage to an AB'in Domi?
WHAT OTHER BATTLESHIP WEAPON ONLY HITS A DOMI FOR HALF DAMAGE WHEN IT'S GOING AT 337m/s???
(unless it's at point-blank and so under the traversal of the guns)
You don't see a PROBLEM that cruises are hitting a domi for 58% damage? or that PRECISION cruises aren't even hitting the Domi for full damage if the Domi is using an AB??
According to your figures, even a PAINTED Domi using an AB doesn't get hit for full damage by PRECISION cruise?
You don't think this SUCKS????????
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.10.24 10:31:00 -
[437]
No, because very few Domis will be ABing at 337 m/s because of inertia, skills and webs, and very few Domis will be ABing at all. |
Tnam
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 10:36:00 -
[438]
Originally by: PhatBoy Edited by: PhatBoy on 24/10/2008 09:47:04
ok here is a question for you what dread is going to fit 3 smarties on it????? the point is the damage reduction of the missles 90% reduction is alittle extreme o and BTW phoenix's can be used for other things other than just POS shooting
Was referring to carriers, which might feasibly use kiting, not to dreads which really can't consider kiting to be any kind of viable option. |
Rip Striker
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Posted - 2008.10.24 10:49:00 -
[439]
Originally by: Gypsio III No, because very few Domis will be ABing at 337 m/s because of inertia, skills and webs, and very few Domis will be ABing at all.
I dont either see a problem with AB:ing BSs (or battlecruisers for that matter) as typically you dont encounter a single BS. BSs come in groups and remote rep each other. This means that they either have to orbit each other or stand still. If they choose to orbit they will not be moving at max AB speed due to inertia (typical rep distance being max 7-8 km or so).
However, AB:ing cruisers can become a problem. They are quite agile and can maintain their speed easily. I can almost anticipate that most cruisers will fit an AB rather than an MWD (typically ABs can run "indefinately") and get a minimum 50% damage reduction during the whole fight from heavy and larger missiles.
I for one will definately fit my cruiser-sized ships with an AB.
Fly safe!
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Vigaz
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Posted - 2008.10.24 10:50:00 -
[440]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Vigaz From Devblog: "Speed must never reach ludicrous speed, which is defined as speeds where missiles and drones don't intercept the class of ship they were intended for
This is our celestial vision. "
Let me say that a BS with MWD should be 250-300 m/s max 'ludicrous' speed. 106m/s is the max exp velocity of a cruise missile and 71m/s for torpedo. In Sisi, a t1 fitted Domi with MWD is now immune to all BS missiles (cruise and torpedo).
This is in line with your celestial vision?
Complete nonsense. According to my calculations:
1. Domi moving at 124 m/s takes 100% damage from Cruise and 79% from torps. 2. Domi ABing at 337 m/s takes 58% damage from T1 Cruise and 73% from Precision Cruise. 3. Webbed Domi moving at 50 m/s takes 100% damage from Cruise and 93% from torps. 4. Webbed Domi ABing at 135 m/s takes 100% damage from Cruise and 72% from torps. 5. Painted Domi ABing at 337 m/s takes 79% damage from Cruise and 92% from Precision Cruise. 6. Webbed, painted Domi ABing at 135 m/s takes 100% damage from Cruise and 100% from torps.
The sky is not falling.
where did u find AB? I was speaking about MWD.
could you pls post your calculation regading MWD? Today I've done few tests on Sisi, I found one type of speed tank is to use mwd 10 secs on and 10 secs off. (more than 50% overall dmg reducion) Also do u mind if I ask you to give me your extreme positive vision for Stealth bombers? I think this class is dead, but I feel that u have some calculation to show me that sky isnt falling.
PS:pls do not tell me that I only need a rapier to kill a t1 frig with a SB (I guess a rapier alone can do that without a SB).
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Nuts Nougat
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.10.24 11:00:00 -
[441]
Your missiles will still hit the domi for same damage when it is orbiting at 500 or at 250km though. No other battleship weapon system can hit another battleship ABing at 500m without any webs, heck even with the nerfed webs it's hard to do it. And they definitely cannot hit at 250km with the same weapons. This is the most important pro for using missiles. If you think the cons outweigh the pros, don't use them it's as simple as that. I sure know I will use them though they're bloody overpowered.
It used to be possible to speed tank missiles with a select few ships (cruisers and smaller, typhoon, mach). Now that speeds are more "balanced" and speed tanking needs to remain viable (lol), ofcourse everyone will be able to speed tank them to an extent, because everyone has similar speeds. Live with it.
You, the missile users, wanted a speed nerf and you got it. Did you really think missiles wouldn't get any changes after they can hit everything, anywhere as long as it's within lock range? ---
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Rip Striker
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Posted - 2008.10.24 11:10:00 -
[442]
Originally by: Nuts Nougat
... Now that speeds are more "balanced" and speed tanking needs to remain viable (lol), ofcourse everyone will be able to speed tank them to an extent, because everyone has similar speeds. Live with it. ...
Does the speed tank them to an extent correspond to a 15% damage reduction? 30%? 50%? 90%? As it is now, ABing ships will reduce missile damage by 50% or more. Imo, that is definately more than "to an extent".
Either case, I honestly believe most of the missile users will be quite satisfied with the outcome of the missile changes when the patch hits TQ.
Fly safe!
PS. Would be cool if CCP could post some missile damage values for different scenarios. At this moment, there seems to be many questionable numbers floating around in this thread making it hard for some to see what's true and what's fabricated.
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PhatBoy
Caldari Fallen Angel's Blade.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 11:16:00 -
[443]
Originally by: Nuts Nougat Your missiles will still hit the domi for same damage when it is orbiting at 500 or at 250km though. No other battleship weapon system can hit another battleship ABing at 500m without any webs, heck even with the nerfed webs it's hard to do it. And they definitely cannot hit at 250km with the same weapons. This is the most important pro for using missiles. If you think the cons outweigh the pros, don't use them it's as simple as that. I sure know I will use them though they're bloody overpowered.
It used to be possible to speed tank missiles with a select few ships (cruisers and smaller, typhoon, mach). Now that speeds are more "balanced" and speed tanking needs to remain viable (lol), ofcourse everyone will be able to speed tank them to an extent, because everyone has similar speeds. Live with it.
You, the missile users, wanted a speed nerf and you got it. Did you really think missiles wouldn't get any changes after they can hit everything, anywhere as long as it's within lock range?
dude once again you miss the point. i agree there had to be some sort of missile nerf when the speed nerf came out. but seriously this friggen big? and regaurding your comment "if you this the cons outwiegh the pros dont use them" that is kinda hard to do with a 70m SP toon that is nothing but missiles and caldari ships so thus i would have to retrain for a new race of equal SP which takes another 3-4years that comment makes no sense. the only ships that havent been able to speed tank a raven are mega's apoc's tempest's and geddons (Accept when nano'ing first came out) every other ship can either outrun the missiles, get going fast enough to where the missiles do 0 damage or they go fast enough that it cuts our damage in half or more.
The point is this is a extremly huge nerf....when only a minor one is needed. Haveing my missiles do 90% less damage or have my cruise missiles take FOREVER to kill a frig is ridiculious.
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PhatBoy
Caldari Fallen Angel's Blade.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 11:19:00 -
[444]
Edited by: PhatBoy on 24/10/2008 11:22:19
Originally by: Rip Striker
Originally by: Nuts Nougat
... Now that speeds are more "balanced" and speed tanking needs to remain viable (lol), ofcourse everyone will be able to speed tank them to an extent, because everyone has similar speeds. Live with it. ...
Does the speed tank them to an extent correspond to a 15% damage reduction? 30%? 50%? 90%? As it is now, ABing ships will reduce missile damage by 50% or more. Imo, that is definately more than "to an extent".
Either case, I honestly believe most of the missile users will be quite satisfied with the outcome of the missile changes when the patch hits TQ.
Fly safe!
PS. Would be cool if CCP could post some missile damage values for different scenarios. At this moment, there seems to be many questionable numbers floating around in this thread making it hard for some to see what's true and what's fabricated.
are you crazy dude? have you been reading this thread at all? there have been maybe 5 outta 100 caldari people that are semi ok with this patch. if you would acually read the whole 15pages of the thread you would see that 95% of the missile users are HIGHLY against a nerf that is this extreme. This is even bigger than the Amarr nerf in 2004.Either way i still have pride in caldari CCP can take our torps away and They can also take out cruise missiles away........But in the end we will die with pride of caldari and hatred from the nerf
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 11:46:00 -
[445]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/10/2008 11:47:32
Originally by: Rip Striker
I dont either see a problem with AB:ing BSs (or battlecruisers for that matter) as typically you dont encounter a single BS. BSs come in groups and remote rep each other. This means that they either have to orbit each other or stand still. If they choose to orbit they will not be moving at max AB speed due to inertia (typical rep distance being max 7-8 km or so).
However, AB:ing cruisers can become a problem. They are quite agile and can maintain their speed easily. I can almost anticipate that most cruisers will fit an AB rather than an MWD (typically ABs can run "indefinately") and get a minimum 50% damage reduction during the whole fight from heavy and larger missiles.
I for one will definately fit my cruiser-sized ships with an AB.
Fly safe!
Cruisers ABing is a silly notion for TQ.
Land further then 10.8km from the other guy, no chance in hell of getting a tackle, in fact you'll die to everything which can outrange you.
Getting within 'AB speed/sig tank range' even if you do land at 10km is going to take about 20 seconds unwebbed, or 40s webbed. By that time you're largely dead.
Getting within things like blaster optimal on a AB is not going to work of course, because if you landed, say, 10km off to a Rupture you would take 40s minimum to get to range, at which point you would not stand any chance at all at winning the fight.
Burning back to gates / burning away / etc is going to be completely impossible with a AB.
The only thing your AB might be genuinely useful for is speedtanking BS, and you can do that without a AB to begin with, and MWD will enable you to close range to 500m much faster in case you do want to try.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.10.24 11:54:00 -
[446]
Originally by: Vigaz could you pls post your calculation regading MWD? Today I've done few tests on Sisi, I found one type of speed tank is to use mwd 10 secs on and 10 secs off. (more than 50% overall dmg reducion) Also do u mind if I ask you to give me your extreme positive vision for Stealth bombers? I think this class is dead, but I feel that u have some calculation to show me that sky isnt falling.
PS:pls do not tell me that I only need a rapier to kill a t1 frig with a SB (I guess a rapier alone can do that without a SB).
Erm, I've left that spreadsheet at home and won't be back until Sunday. I'll try to remember to run through the calculations then though. NB - my calculations use the missile damage formula derived here. If that's shown to be wrong... ignore everything I say.
However, from general memory, MWDs are not particularly effective at reducing same-size missile damage, because of the huuuge sig bloom. Your pulsed-MWD idea is extremely interesting though...
Stealth bombers - I haven't looked at these at all yet, so no comment here yet. Similarly for the explosion velocity/precision bonused ships such as the Nighthawk.
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Uzume Ame
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Posted - 2008.10.24 12:08:00 -
[447]
Originally by: DaveJ777 I've done some testing with sieged citadels vs a Revelation (out of siege). 9800 damage at 0m/s 4900 at 10 3800 at 13 2300 at 23 2200 at 25 930 at 61
Not even going its full speed, the damage is already reduced by over 90%. The damage reductions are even larger for carriers.
Is the Phoenix intended to be useless vs other ships now? Being highly vulnerable to smartbombs was bad enough...
I'm not a dread pilot obviouslly; but this, sir, is ridicolous.
So citadel torps get an HP boost and are nerfed into oblibion by 'speed-tanking' (if one can call 61m/s speedtanking, lulz).
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Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.24 12:39:00 -
[448]
Originally by: Uzume Ame
Originally by: DaveJ777 I've done some testing with sieged citadels vs a Revelation (out of siege). 9800 damage at 0m/s 4900 at 10 3800 at 13 2300 at 23 2200 at 25 930 at 61
Not even going its full speed, the damage is already reduced by over 90%. The damage reductions are even larger for carriers.
Is the Phoenix intended to be useless vs other ships now? Being highly vulnerable to smartbombs was bad enough...
I'm not a dread pilot obviouslly; but this, sir, is ridicolous.
So citadel torps get an HP boost and are nerfed into oblibion by 'speed-tanking' (if one can call 61m/s speedtanking, lulz).
Can other dreads like a blaster or rail moros in siege hit with the target dreads transversal at 61ms...has anybody checked?.
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Silver Sarena
Caldari Coreward Pan-Galactic
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Posted - 2008.10.24 12:48:00 -
[449]
OK, I fly Ravens, and I fly them in PvE a lot. OK, boo and hiss me now to get it over with. Ok, now that's done, I'll say my piece.
First, I don't agree at all with what CCP is doing with the missile nerf.... oh, sorry, I mean "Nano" nerf, that was what we supposed to be nerfing right, speed?
Anyway, I don't think that the missile nerf is working, because it is making smaller ships the only class that you want to be in (speaking specifically of missile boats). Why? Because Battleship missile boats can't even damage their own class at a 100% dps anymore. All a defending ship has to do is put on an Afterburner, and your battleship class missiles are nerfed by almost 50% (or more) dps. What other single module can do that? Not one that I can think of. If someone else can think of one, please, help me out, I would seriously like to know what it is.
OK, that said, and knowing the devs are BLATENTLY going to ignore it and plow forward: I have a suggestion that may keep you in business when you decide to move forward with this madness CCP. Are you listening devs? I hope so. Because this idea could very well save Eve from the history bin. If you decide to pigheadedly go forward with the insane nano nerf, and even worse missile nerf, you MUST remove ALL drones drawing aggro from missions. Especially level 4's.
Do that ONE thing, and you just may still have a game after these changes go live. Fail to do so..... and well.... you'll still have me. I'll just train for a Dominix because they will be the new kings of mission running. But, I promise you lots of people WILL quit when you go live with these nerfs that take an axe to the most popular battleship in the game; namely the Raven. After all, add any other three battleships in the game together, and more pilots STILL fly the Raven.
Walk softly CCP. You've been warned.
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.24 12:51:00 -
[450]
Edited by: lecrotta on 24/10/2008 12:54:47
Originally by: Silver Sarena OK, I fly Ravens, and I fly them in PvE a lot. OK, boo and hiss me now to get it over with. Ok, now that's done, I'll say my piece.
First, I don't agree at all with what CCP is doing with the missile nerf.... oh, sorry, I mean "Nano" nerf, that was what we supposed to be nerfing right, speed?
Actually i believe the caldari pilots and carebea....erm pro nerfits called it "balancing".
Try flying turret ships with the tracking issues before you start crying about missiles too much.
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