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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
5pinDizzy
Umpteenth Podding
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Posted - 2008.12.10 00:00:00 -
[481]
signed, for what good it will do.
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Gabriel Theodoulos
Vigilia Valeria Expeditionary Forces
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Posted - 2008.12.10 00:34:00 -
[482]
/ Signed
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.12.10 00:44:00 -
[483]
Originally by: KTOZ I m playing this game since 2004 and killed more then enough in caldari missile boats to prouve that i m not a clueless noob.. I can clearly see what those changes did to missiles that i m firing.
Ohh and he was as stationnary as a tanked ishtar without mwd and 2 webs on it, so maybe he was moving with insignificent speed if that will help you..
No, KTOZ, I'm afraid you are a clueless noob.
You said yourself that the Ishtar was stationary. Even if it wasn't, a dual-webbed Ishtar receives no damage mitigation from its speed.
The "32 damage" dealt was a result of the Ishtar's resists. It was nothing to do with its speed or the new missile mechanics. You have only yourself to blame.
Also, remember that under the old mechanics you'd have been hitting the 4 km/s Ishtar for 0.1 damage... not 32.
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SolidGold2
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Posted - 2008.12.10 04:02:00 -
[484]
Signed nighthawk don't do s+++ for damage anymore
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KTOZ
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.10 10:04:00 -
[485]
Edited by: KTOZ on 10/12/2008 10:14:50
Originally by: Gypsio III
The "32 damage" dealt was a result of the Ishtar's resists.
WOOW Really how genious you are?? are you still sure that you ve read that part of my post?? --> Originally by: KTOZ
Yes i switched to em and expl missiles asap but the dmg increase wasnt enought to kill him before he kills my 80 sp friends hictor an my drake (
Originally by: Gypsio III
Also, remember that under the old mechanics you'd have been hitting the 4 km/s Ishtar for 0.1 damage... not 32.
Are you serious ?? are you sure you are playing the same game we are talkin about? it was clearly possible to **** a dual webbed hac with missiles..
Anyway i m not after a smack talk here but trying to communicate my ingame experience to ccp who are supposed to pay attention and check out if something is wrong. If you have simmilar experiences and think the missiles are kick ass as they are, dont hesitate to share your endless knowledge with the comunity. But if you are here to agress ppl or lookin for a smack go to CAOD section its more popular for that kind of activity..
Ahh an If you want to find out who is a clueless noob man, convo me ingame i ll show you ok? But stop it in here.. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected]) |
Arikanaiz
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Posted - 2008.12.10 10:19:00 -
[486]
As the OP, I would like to say, honestly, stop trolling this thread, for those of you who bring valid arguments fine, bring it and leave, if supporters of this thread wish to smack talk with you, show that you're the better person and just don't reply.
To those of us who truely believe that this nerf was "unbalanced" Don't waste your time in replying to the idiots of the world who just want to get a rise out of you because you're upset. I'm a lowsec jerk, I kill innocent people for kicks not cash, but at least I'm polite about it, everyone, show some dignity here!!!!!!!!!
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.12.10 10:32:00 -
[487]
KTOZ - read again, and try to understand it this time.
A dual-webbed Ishtar receives no damage mitigation from its speed. The damage that you dealt was SOLELY a result of the Ishtar's resists. It was nothing to do with its speed or the new missile mechanics, and everything to do with its resists.
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NathanMoore
Meltd0wn The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.12.10 13:10:00 -
[488]
signed.
the changes went over the top.
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William Pierce
Universal Army
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Posted - 2008.12.10 17:51:00 -
[489]
Edited by: William Pierce on 10/12/2008 17:53:56 /signed!
After all the sp I've put into the already weak Caldari, they're now freaking worthless!
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Alex Wise
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Posted - 2008.12.11 13:16:00 -
[490]
signed again
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Riga Mortiss
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Posted - 2008.12.11 18:22:00 -
[491]
/signed with Alacrity!!... this nerf HAS to be revisited ... Caldari are now broken and those of us who specced missiles as a primary weapon have wasted a lot of time and money. CCP even states that Missiles are a Caldari Primary weapon system... it makes NO sense to have ships gimped due to new requirements for missile usage.
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Ignition SemperFi
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.12.12 13:08:00 -
[492]
To the top with you fred!
not to be lost among the threads about posxploits ---- People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.
Quote:
They already did introduce a counter to missiles, it's called Quantum Rise
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Anne Archer
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Posted - 2008.12.12 23:58:00 -
[493]
Signed
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Ignition SemperFi
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.12.15 01:06:00 -
[494]
any word from the CSM? ---- People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.
Quote:
They already did introduce a counter to missiles, it's called Quantum Rise
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Maria Martillo
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Posted - 2008.12.15 17:23:00 -
[495]
Edited by: Maria Martillo on 15/12/2008 17:23:56 /Signed
I try the changes on sisi. In fact, some days before the patch it seemed to be aceptable, cause it was and "improvement" in the behaviour missiles already had, this is: harder to hit small, fast ships, specially at close range.
On the other side, now you tank a full room aggro of missiles on moving, a hit of a torpedo makes you 34 damage with t1 hardeners....
In a lucky strike, i was cross training gallente. Conclussions:
I, with a mega(don't like domi), and less skills in gunnery than missiles can do LvL 4's even easier than a Raven (before QR)(drake is also ligthyears far efective), the good thing is that is also funnier. And Abbadon looks cute so.... *looks with tears the Raven left in the corner of the hangar* For missions, that's what i do now, the key is the strategy and the knwoledge. Now, even that is useless with the exagerate nerf. In PvP, gunboats have been always the main choose so...
This isn't a whine, cause i understand that many times your individual nerf is a good for the collective, and i accept,as in fact, CCP has generally do it well, but in this case i think is gone too far. Also, speed nerf is ludicrous....except if you enjoy snail races. Nerfing all is not a solution, balancing the problem is.
Yeah!!, my english sucks, but who cares??
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Gotrek65
Brimstone Order CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.12.15 18:21:00 -
[496]
Edited by: Gotrek65 on 15/12/2008 18:27:11 WTF people, I see a ton of /signed on the first page but no one is checking the checkbox
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.12.15 18:25:00 -
[497]
Originally by: Riga Mortiss /signed with Alacrity!!... this nerf HAS to be revisited ... Caldari are now broken and those of us who specced missiles as a primary weapon have wasted a lot of time and money. CCP even states that Missiles are a Caldari Primary weapon system... it makes NO sense to have ships gimped due to new requirements for missile usage.
Have you tried a Caldari ship since the changes?
I fly Caldari Missile ships on my main, and I haven't seen anything become much more difficult. Sure, I don't WTFPWN everything with my cruise missiles anymore, but this was an abomination anyway.
Missiles are fine. This is just another common whine thread for people who saw their I-Win button removed....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.12.15 19:00:00 -
[498]
Missiles are still better than turrets. They need to be brought more in line with the rest of the weapon systems.
No support.
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Haakelen
Gallente Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.15 19:05:00 -
[499]
Edited by: Haakelen on 15/12/2008 19:05:08 I have used missiles in both PvP and PvE post-patch, and I fail to see these massive problems.
Originally by: Gotrek65 WTF people, I see a ton of /signed on the first page but no one is checking the checkbox
What do you expect from Caldari players?
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Stalina
Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad
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Posted - 2008.12.15 20:15:00 -
[500]
Originally by: Ignition SemperFi any word from the CSM?
hm...looking at the pro/contra nano votes and looking back at this thread...you have 17 pages an not everyone has supported this topic.
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Billy Merc
Born-2-Kill Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.16 00:27:00 -
[501]
Edited by: Billy Merc on 16/12/2008 00:27:03 TBH as mentioned previously...if the missiles get un-nerfed...so too must the speed.
REALLY speed was a little insane...but hell at least if u dropped a rapier / huggin on top of a speedy bastard vaga...he was dead... people *****ed..but never took the time to use the tools at hand to stop nano ships...hell i was killin more nano ships pre nerf than i am now...webs suck ass now and have no real use....not to mention the vaga.
Curse + sensor booster II's + 1 x large neut + mates == dead nano if he declaoked within 72 km of u.
Huggin / rapier == dead nano if they ventured too close to your gang
heyna == dead ceptor if they ventures too close or where not going insanely fast
these are all but a few effective counters to nano's pre patch....pitty the tools that complained so much didnt have any imaginination...now yall are whinging about the nerf...well i myself have moved on...hope ya like the new changes and that ya learnt what happens when ya open ya pieholes before using your inititive / brain.
i support the rollback of missiles ONLY if everything else gets rolled back too...otherwise i offer no support
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Grann Thefauto
Minmatar Divine Insanity The Eden Project
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Posted - 2008.12.16 00:28:00 -
[502]
Edited by: Grann Thefauto on 16/12/2008 00:29:09 This is silly. Missiles are now in line with turrets. Turrets (especially BS sized) will do no damage at all when a ship is moving fast enough also. This has always been the case. You've pretty much always been able to speed tank a turret BS with frigs but that used to not work with a cruise raven. Thats now been fixed.
If you expect to fight small ships bring a small ship. If want to kill a BS with a torp ship bring a Target Painter. Its as simple as that. The problem isn't the missiles its the failure to properly fit. Now that missiles have tracking issues like other guns you need to start using mods that actually help you.
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Ignition SemperFi
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.12.16 13:41:00 -
[503]
Edited by: Ignition SemperFi on 16/12/2008 13:43:52 Edited by: Ignition SemperFi on 16/12/2008 13:42:26
Originally by: Grann Thefauto Edited by: Grann Thefauto on 16/12/2008 00:29:09 This is silly. Missiles are now in line with turrets. Turrets (especially BS sized) will do no damage at all when a ship is moving fast enough also. This has always been the case. You've pretty much always been able to speed tank a turret BS with frigs but that used to not work with a cruise raven. Thats now been fixed.
If you expect to fight small ships bring a small ship. If want to kill a BS with a torp ship bring a Target Painter. Its as simple as that. The problem isn't the missiles its the failure to properly fit. Now that missiles have tracking issues like other guns you need to start using mods that actually help you.
If your going to take this route then missiles need a DMG boost beyond what they got. Seriously missiles have always been substandard to guns for most pvp, and now they get nerfed even more against the SAME sized target they were intended for (bs vs vs) (cruiser/bc vs cruiser/bc). Not to mention there is no way to lower their "transversal" with missiles as compared to guns, because it doesnt matter which direction they are moving as long as they are moving. They dont even need propulsion mods in a BS, just be moving at full speed to take a huge dmg reduction
Look at the numbers before spouting off how they are inline with turrets. And as far as fitting(l2play statements), i broke it down earlier in the thread about pvp mods, missile ships, armor and shield tanks. Ave armor tanking ships have 7 lowslots 4 mids slots while ave sheild tankers have 6 mids and 5 lows. So where as shield tanks require 4 midslots(plus DC II, and other lows if you need fitting reqs for torps), armor tanks require 5 lows. Leaving you two dmg slots, plus your 4 mids. Shield tankers are left with 2 mids so MWD and point? or painter and point in one of the slowest BS's?
Where was your missiles need nerfed against BS's before the QR release?? they weren't there. You're only spouting off at missile users because it was a mass of idiot missile n00bs that whined for the speed nerf(for the most part i dont support those missile n00bs either that want cruises to full dmg a frig)
(the pvp mod reqs still affect the maelstrom but its a hole nother can of worms) The only other real missile BS worth anything is typhoon or scorp... and the scorp really doesnt count w/ its main weapon being ECM not torps.
Where do you put the painter on the solo raven? And before the caldari arent a solo race. Every race should have the ability to pvp in a solo boat with their BS, caldari are mainly missile users, so having them retrain an entire weapon system just to solo pvp isnt adapting... its a broken weapon system that needs fixing.
Then where guns have tracking enhancers, a lowslot mod to help with their "tracking" where is the lowslot version of that for missiles.
Im not asking for a full roll back, im asking to get the numbers tweaked so we have a chance of doing something more than tickling our victims in a BS vs BS combat ---- People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.
Quote:
They already did introduce a counter to missiles, it's called Quantum Rise
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Haakelen
Gallente Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.16 13:59:00 -
[504]
Originally by: Ignition SemperFi If your going to take this route then missiles need a DMG boost beyond what they got.
Missiles and guns are not the same thing. They are different. Differences make things interesting.
Originally by: Ignition SemperFi bunch of :words: about target painters and midslots
You cannot fit a mid rack full of tank and a low rack full of damage, and somehow you don't see how this is balance? Try fitting a Geddon sometime and see how great armor tankers have it for midslots. Every PvP ship needs to fit propulsion mods, not just shield tanking ships. Megas and Abaddons can't do dualrep tanks and expect to fit good weapons, and you can't fit heavy tanks on Ravens/Rokhs and expect to have a cakewalk with fitting, either.
Originally by: Ignition SemperFi Then where guns have tracking enhancers, a lowslot mod to help with their "tracking" where is the lowslot version of that for missiles.
Missiles and guns are not the same thing. They are different. Differences make things interesting. Do you see Gallente whining for a blaster round that follows a target for 30 seconds, and will do full damage if he's webbed and painted before it hits?
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Lisa Waen
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Posted - 2008.12.16 17:11:00 -
[505]
IMO, a missile's explosion velocity should equal the average speed of the ship-class for that missile while running a T1 AB with lvl 4 in relevant skills. This would mean that smaller ships not using ABs would most likely take full damage (adjusted for explosion radius), but if you aren't moving, you deserve what you get.
If you are running a MWD on a battleship, you should be able to speed tank some of the damage dished out by a cruise missile, provided you are up to speed before the missile hits.
What I don't agree with is a battleship being able to even partially speed tank a cruise missile without using at least an AB.
/supported, not because the nerf bat was swung, but because they swung too hard.
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Ignition SemperFi
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.12.16 17:24:00 -
[506]
Edited by: Ignition SemperFi on 16/12/2008 17:25:10 Edited by: Ignition SemperFi on 16/12/2008 17:23:46
Originally by: Haakelen guns aren't missiles
yes i was replying to the person who was stating that missiles were now like guns. i dont want missiles to become like guns i just want some numbers tweaked.
Getting into fit this fit that debates. I have cross trained to gall, amarr, and caldari. I can armor, shield, gun, and missile. I know the fitting nightmare of the geddon, but the apoc works just fine, or the baddon. Infact right now Amarr has the best BS class style ships overall.
I know the fitting reqs and how to use those weapon systems. Have you used missiles... do you understand their downfalls or are you just spouting random nonsense because in your mind it makes sense?
The torp buff prior to QR finally brought the caldari a BS solo PVP platform that was comparable to one of the top tier solo BS's the mega.
For caldari to active tank their shields they cant even fit torps. So they are negated to cruises, so by then even all those wonderful dmg mods they get to field only bring them up to a theoretical DPS that only exsists if the target is moving at 0m/s.
If caldari go passive shield tank, their tanks still take cap unlike passive armor tanks. And they still need fitting mods. That im all fine with. As far as baddon and mega cant fit good dual reps... yes we can both agree these platforms excell as passive tank beasts. And will outlast both passive and active shield tankers almost every time.
I could deal with all of those problems, now you tack on a needed target painter/or web because some idiot cant even figure out that a BS sized weapon doesnt have an explosion radius to cover then entire BS sized ship with torps. The fact is, where does it go and the fact their explosion radius/velocity numbers are terrible thats where i have the serious problem.
Rokhs arent the issue here because they still use guns. The problem here is missile BS's and their needs. I guess the PVP torp raven was soooooo overpowered in BS 1 vs 1 it needed to be nerfed there. lawl -------------------------------------
I do agree with you on one thing haakelen. Different makes them interesting... but where I differ is that subpar makes them obsolete ---- People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.
Quote:
They already did introduce a counter to missiles, it's called Quantum Rise
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1angrydude
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Posted - 2008.12.17 08:37:00 -
[507]
signed with gusto
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su ling
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Posted - 2008.12.17 08:39:00 -
[508]
I'll get it right some day. with the support button clickedSigned again
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Gidgiddonah
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Posted - 2008.12.18 14:26:00 -
[509]
Quote: What I don't agree with is a battleship being able to even partially speed tank a cruise missile without using at least an AB
This.
/signed
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Blood Titan
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Posted - 2008.12.18 16:22:00 -
[510]
Originally by: Grann Thefauto Edited by: Grann Thefauto on 16/12/2008 00:29:09 This is silly. Missiles are now in line with turrets. Turrets (especially BS sized) will do no damage at all when a ship is moving fast enough also. This has always been the case. You've pretty much always been able to speed tank a turret BS with frigs but that used to not work with a cruise raven. Thats now been fixed.
If you expect to fight small ships bring a small ship. If want to kill a BS with a torp ship bring a Target Painter. Its as simple as that. The problem isn't the missiles its the failure to properly fit. Now that missiles have tracking issues like other guns you need to start using mods that actually help you.
This!
Caldari just got their I win button taken away. Honestly I still see CNR able to deal massive dps in line with turrets. You didn't get shafted, you got balanced and now you just have to use a little strategy.
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