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Raymon James
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.01.29 00:34:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Alex555 perhaps the phrase that ccp is planning to sell plexes has caused some panic on the market, but look at it from different perspective - they want to sell plexes, but any price they would charge would be considered as unfair, because there was no fair price before.
Alex555 what the <<ARROW>> are you talking about? CCP is aparently going to charge somewhere between $14.95 and $18.95 per plex.
They are not buyable from CCP for ISK. |
AnakieNine
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Posted - 2009.01.29 00:36:00 -
[62]
So the Op blames CCP for the crash. An attempt by CCP to stop his venture. lol thats funny.
My post in your original thread explaned what would happen and it started well before CCP anounced the changes. Pop goes the bubble. That one was obvious.
Still its a good way to get out and save face with some nice profits.
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Raymon James
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.01.29 00:40:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Raymon James on 29/01/2009 00:43:13
Originally by: nether void
Originally by: Mithos Victus Good stuff.
Again this is how scamming in game money will eventually become a real crime, because you can convert this in game money into real money. Maybe not in Eve's time, but sometime in the future of MMOs.
http://secondlife.reuters.com/stories/2006/10/15/ginko-financial-pioneer-or-pyramid/
and
http://secondlife.reuters.com/stories/2007/08/09/unable-to-pay-depositors-ginko-ceases-banking-operations/
its already happening.(note the August 2007 date)
for more info
http://tinyurl.com/cmvk87 |
Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.29 04:33:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Raymon James Alex555 what the <<ARROW>> are you talking about? CCP is aparently going to charge somewhere between $14.95 and $18.95 per plex.
Say what? I missed this particular gem, link please? |
Jack Gates
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.29 05:45:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Mithos Victus The last thing you'd want is rampant deflation where suddenly everyone with some pocket change can purchase GTCs and CCP is left holding a turd in their hand rather than paid subscriptions. Because it means people are spending half the time playing the game to pay for GTCs than they were before which means they work less pay less.
You are so horrendously stupid I can smell it. I can literally smell how stupid you are. |
Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.01.29 06:09:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Jack Gates
Originally by: Mithos Victus The last thing you'd want is rampant deflation where suddenly everyone with some pocket change can purchase GTCs and CCP is left holding a turd in their hand rather than paid subscriptions. Because it means people are spending half the time playing the game to pay for GTCs than they were before which means they work less pay less.
You are so horrendously stupid I can smell it. I can literally smell how stupid you are.
I'll be less blunt than Jack, but I'm inclined to agree with his conclusion. It doesn't matter how long people play to grind up the isk for another PLEX. Maybe it takes them ten hours, maybe it takes them a hundred; the point is that they are BUYING the PLEX. Which means that someone is buying a GTC from CCP. Which means that a subscription continues to exist.
In fact, I predict that as prices for PLEX go down, more and more 'casual' players will start to fund accounts, either their original ones or new ones, via PLEX time. This will increase demand, counterbalancing the increased supply. You can bet that there will be VERY strong demand a couple months after the boxed release, as new players hit their stride and get into L4 missions, manufacturing, and 0.0 ratting. |
Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.29 06:14:00 -
[67]
Looking at PLEX price, its still going up in the forge. Guess your theory is wrong. |
Johnny Rockefeller
Builders League United
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Posted - 2009.01.29 06:28:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Brock Nelson Looking at PLEX price, its still going up in the forge. Guess your theory is wrong.
Wha? They were at about 370 mil a few days ago, now they're at 330 mil. |
Alex555
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Posted - 2009.01.29 07:41:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Raymon James
Alex555 what the <<ARROW>> are you talking about? CCP is aparently going to charge somewhere between $14.95 and $18.95 per plex.
They are not buyable from CCP for ISK.
o-ops
i thought they would sell plexes for isks
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Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2009.01.29 10:03:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Johnny Rockefeller
Originally by: Brock Nelson Looking at PLEX price, its still going up in the forge. Guess your theory is wrong.
Wha? They were at about 370 mil a few days ago, now they're at 330 mil.
As I mentioned earlier, A few people cashed out causing a small patch of excess demand. Causing price to track slightly, check the numbers available and price in Jita today, and prices are slowly creeping back up. could have been a large manipulation downwards, look at the graph and notice the massive peak in sales now they are cheap. ie crash market buy up the stock from those taht followed the crash and relist once market settle at a much higher point
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.29 15:52:00 -
[71]
Pricing stabilized because
1. Even people in this thread are unaware of CCP's intention to sell what amounts to new, tradeable 30 day timecards 2. They haven't started doing it yet.
Feel free to go long, it's your ISK. If you read my original thread I did say there is a risk to going long with PLEXes -- the risk of CCP making a minor adjustment to how they are generated. They've done exactly that.
By going long GTCs now you are going against CCPs intent. They have clearly indicated they want GTCs to be more affordable. So, who do you think will win this little game of chicken?
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Chrono Eva
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Posted - 2009.01.29 15:55:00 -
[72]
Where and when did CCP say that? |
WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:22:00 -
[73]
they never said that, he's making it up. |
Shavana
Made in Canada
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:23:00 -
[74]
I don't understand... 60d GTC's are still selling for 650m+ on the forums... I see no price change at all. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:49:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Shavana I don't understand... 60d GTC's are still selling for 650m+ on the forums... I see no price change at all.
You can't buy any 60day GTC's for cash. They will run out, whatever left is the last stock.
CCp wants it cheaper because selling 1 GTC currently brings in lots of cash for the more normal casual player.
If GTC's are cheaper, the ISK doesn't go as far and people buy more of them.
Remember MD rules don't really apply to CCP target audience. A lot of people here don't pay to play the game. There is a much larger group who do, thats where CCP makes their money. |
Raymon James
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:50:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Raymon James on 29/01/2009 18:53:03
Originally by: WarlockX they never said that, he's making it up.
from the patch notes
Quote: Build 72263 to 75453 addresses Patch Notes for Quantum Rise 1.0.5
Patch notes for Quantum Rise 1.0.5, released 27 January 2009
FEATURES
Redeeming System
The redeeming system allows players to take advantage of special offers made available by CCP and affiliated companies. In this release, the redeeming system will allow for game time credit to be purchased via the Secure EVE Online website in the form of 30 Day Pilot License Extensions (PLEX). More information about the use of PLEX can be found here.
the price I posted was in a thread on the DE forums where a mod said they would announce it probably next week after replying where someone speculated that it would be somewhere between the current sub price and half the current GTC price. I scrambled the coment about the price with the moderators post.
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Rivqua When can we expect information on the PLEX buying mechanics? When will it go live?
The current plan is to open the web frontend in the next 2 weeks.
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ResearchBunny Beatrix
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:03:00 -
[77]
Edited by: ResearchBunny Beatrix on 29/01/2009 20:03:22
Originally by: WarlockX they never said that, he's making it up.
This. We're talking about rampant speculation and rumor here. |
Dranakolys
Gallente Theurgy
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Posted - 2009.01.29 21:16:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Mithos Victus Edited by: Mithos Victus on 27/01/2009 16:19:24
Originally by: SencneS
Don't kid yourself it's considerably more beneficial for CCP to have lower PLEX prices so it stands to reason they want this.
Hypothetical
Player A purchases 10x GTCs through a reseller Player A sells 10x GTCs for 600mil each Player A retains 6,000,000,000.00 ISK
CCP implements changes to the GTC mechanic GTCs bottom out to 300mil each
Player B purchases 20x GTCs through a reseller Player B sells 20x GTCs for 300mil each to Player A Player B retains 6,000,000,000.00 ISK Player A gains 20x GTCs
It does not take a math genius to see that in the hypothetical scenario above, CCP just got screwed out of twenty months worth of subscription fees.
What the goddamn hell are you talking about? CCP isn't affected one bit. _______________
Amused to Death |
Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2009.01.29 22:37:00 -
[79]
Originally by: cosmoray
Originally by: Shavana I don't understand... 60d GTC's are still selling for 650m+ on the forums... I see no price change at all.
You can't buy any 60day GTC's for cash. They will run out, whatever left is the last stock.
CCp wants it cheaper because selling 1 GTC currently brings in lots of cash for the more normal casual player.
If GTC's are cheaper, the ISK doesn't go as far and people buy more of them.
Remember MD rules don't really apply to CCP target audience. A lot of people here don't pay to play the game. There is a much larger group who do, thats where CCP makes their money.
I have not seen anything from CCP regarding discontinuing 60 day GTCs. Can you provide more info? I don't see why they would do that, as it's a higher price per 30-days of game time for them. I would expect them to simply offer the 30-day plexs via their store at 1/2 the 60-day GTC rate. That would make the most financial sense for CCP. |
Flicky G
Centrafuge
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Posted - 2009.01.30 11:19:00 -
[80]
Isn't the bubble more to do with the current RL currency market?
F
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.01.30 12:23:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil I would expect them to simply offer the 30-day plexs via their store at 1/2 the 60-day GTC rate.
Actually, it would make a lot more sense to sell 30-day PLEX at 14.95, same as a 1-month subscription. Not just that, but offer discount packages of 3xPLEX at 38.85, 6xPLEX at 71.70, 12xPLEX at 131.40
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Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2009.01.30 13:28:00 -
[82]
Originally by: LaVista Vista There has a very high barrier to entry to the PLEX market due to the fact places like shattered crystal likes to call you. Now that you will be able to buy from CCP, that barrier to entry will be gone.
Price will come falling down soon enough.
Good point. I was quite unhappy with the idea of the phone call check, so my first ever GTC was bought for me by a corp mate.
Later I did buy directly from Shattered Crystal, and found that the phone call thing wasn't such a big issue after all, but yes, I'm sure that others are somewhat intimidated by it, the way I was.
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Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2009.01.30 13:30:00 -
[83]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
When they call you and ask you for a photocopy of your passport and utility bill, that's a HUGE barrier to entry. A barrier which I didn't want to cross
What? I was just asked a few basic questions. It was in September or Octover 2007, so I don't remember much, but I believe it was something like my street address or similar.
They didn't ask me to send photocopoes or photos of anything. Nor did they sound the least bit suspicious or hostile; the person I talked to was friendly and patient with me.
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Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2009.01.30 15:54:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Impolite Andevil I would expect them to simply offer the 30-day plexs via their store at 1/2 the 60-day GTC rate.
Actually, it would make a lot more sense to sell 30-day PLEX at 14.95, same as a 1-month subscription. Not just that, but offer discount packages of 3xPLEX at 38.85, 6xPLEX at 71.70, 12xPLEX at 131.40
Why would they do that? The plex market exists for those wishing to turn RL cash into isk. Right now the market supports $35/60 days for GTCs. They hiked the price of the GTCs to that point when they took out the 30 and 90-day GTCs and put in the 60-day GTCs, so what motivation would they have to drop prices now? The way things are at the moment, for the percentage of accounts that are supported through GTC/PLEX trade they recieve more money per month than the normal subscription rates. Dropping the price would simply throw that money away. |
Mithos Victus
Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.30 16:32:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Mithos Victus on 30/01/2009 16:35:28
Originally by: Dranakolys
What the goddamn hell are you talking about? CCP isn't affected one bit.
Someone with a hundred bucks laying around purchases a stack of GTCs and sells high, the market for GTCs completely bottoms out and prices are halved, same person purchases twice as many GTCs with the ISK as they previously bought with real money.
Said person has now doubled the amount of GTCs they possess without committing ANY time ingame to earn those GTCs.
CCP loses exactly the quantity of monthly subscriptions it would have taken that person by any other means to work up the ISK ingame to purchase those additional GTCs. It matters not that the GTCs are purchased at the same USD price and CCP receives that money but that a player did not pursue this gain by short or long term committals within the game which translates into additional subscription fees.
You just really don't get it do you? Why do people have such a hard time with short and long term baseline holdings and expenditures? Seriously, it's not that hard to understand. |
Stardust CEO
Stardust Manufacturing
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Posted - 2009.01.30 16:57:00 -
[86]
I had to read what the guy above me said twice, and I don't consider myself lacking in reading comprehension. That said, I may be misinterpreting him, but in case I'm not, my reply is as follows.
It is neither that simple, nor cheap, to manipulate the GTC market. |
Mithos Victus
Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.30 17:01:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Mithos Victus on 30/01/2009 17:02:00
Originally by: Frenden Dax
In fact, I predict that as prices for PLEX go down, more and more 'casual' players will start to fund accounts, either their original ones or new ones, via PLEX time. This will increase demand, counterbalancing the increased supply. You can bet that there will be VERY strong demand a couple months after the boxed release, as new players hit their stride and get into L4 missions, manufacturing, and 0.0 ratting.
For argument's sake, let's say the average casual gamer pays a game subscription for two months and earns 2.4bil in that time period.
Scenario A - GTC Current Price
With GTC prices as they are that player can purchase enough GTCs to have an eight month extension on their subscription.
Scenario B - GTC Price Bottoms Out
If GTC prices drop by half that same player now needs to spend only one month to earn 1.2bil and purchase enough GTCs to have an eight month extension on their subscription.
Yes, the same amount of GTCs are bought, this does not matter. No, the same paid subscription time is not evident in both scenarios.
In Scenario A that person pays an additional $14.95 to CCP for the second month.
In Scenario B they do not.
Do people really not understand this?
It is not that the same amount of GTCs are being spread around, but that people would pay less subscription fees over time while they accrue the money to pay for these GTCs with ingame revenue.
By all friggin' means if so many people seem to think halving GTC prices would not harm CCP in the least, let's do it. I could profit overnight with just the money I have ingame now. Not even lift a finger, wake up tomorrow, and suddenly all my money is worth twice as much as it was before because GTCs are worth half the amount ingame but they were still purchased with real currency that I did not have the night before but now do because ingame prices bottomed out. Suddenly every ISK in my wallet is twice as valuable as it was before, and for what? Hasn't anyone seen enough of what making money out of thin air has already done to the actual economy to realize what it would also do to CCP?
By god I could buy thirty of them right now and never spend another dime on the game on three accounts. Meanwhile at current prices it'd take me months and months to work up enough money for something like that, all the while I am paying CCP more subscription fees.
/shakes head
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SecTrade
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Posted - 2009.01.30 17:39:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Mithos Victus
Micro economics
You are looking at the problem at a micro level, which is why your argument is incorrect. In scenario B, yes the individual player has spent one months less subscription, however his game time is being funded by someone else. Let's take an example:
There are 10 PLEXs open (i.e. the PLEX market only has 10 PLEXs). CCP has made 10 months deferred profit.
Scenario A: Person plays 2 months, buys 8. After 10 months, player needs to buy another 2 for a full year. CCP has made 12 months profit (2 from the player, 10 from the GTC) Scenario B: Person plays 1 month, buys 8. After 9 months, player needs to buy another 3 for a full year, only 2 are remaining. So he uses the GTC for 2, and funds USD for the 12th. CCP has made 12 months profit (2 from the player, 10 from the GTC)
As you can see, you are wrong. Changes to the price of GTCs only changes the timing of the revenue earned. Since the GTC market in theory will never end, this is a permanent shift, but in the end, CCP earn the same amount of revenue. Since the GTC is priced in terms of USD, the ISK value of the GTC is meaningless, it never becomes 'cheaper' to play EVE.
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Mithos Victus
Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.30 17:46:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Mithos Victus on 30/01/2009 17:54:22
Originally by: SecTrade
Originally by: Mithos Victus
Micro economics
You are looking at the problem at a micro level, which is why your argument is incorrect. In scenario B, yes the individual player has spent one months less subscription, however his game time is being funded by someone else. Let's take an example:
There are 10 PLEXs open (i.e. the PLEX market only has 10 PLEXs). CCP has made 10 months deferred profit.
Scenario A: Person plays 2 months, buys 8. After 10 months, player needs to buy another 2 for a full year. CCP has made 12 months profit (2 from the player, 10 from the GTC) Scenario B: Person plays 1 month, buys 8. After 9 months, player needs to buy another 3 for a full year, only 2 are remaining. So he uses the GTC for 2, and funds USD for the 12th. CCP has made 12 months profit (2 from the player, 10 from the GTC)
As you can see, you are wrong. Changes to the price of GTCs only changes the timing of the revenue earned. Since the GTC market in theory will never end, this is a permanent shift, but in the end, CCP earn the same amount of revenue. Since the GTC is priced in terms of USD, the ISK value of the GTC is meaningless, it never becomes 'cheaper' to play EVE.
Yes, the timing of the revenue changes, that's the problem. If you skew the system too far one way or the other from it's baseline rate, it cannot stand up on its own weight.
If suddenly everyone with a spare ISK could just buy twice the time tomorrow than they could have today and defer time spent... that deferred payment is a type of intransitive debt that CCP would accumulate as overhead. Just because CCP still gets their money tomorrow, does not mean they can pay their bills today. Sound familiar?
If prices plummet on GTCs to half or less, and everyone who purchases GTCs through ingame ISK revenue earnings buys stock in those GTCs and defers payment what happens if even a slight majority of those people defer payment past the equitable lifetime of the game in the foreseeable future? |
SecTrade
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Posted - 2009.01.30 17:51:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Mithos Victus Yes, the timing of the revenue changes, that's the problem. If you skew the system too far one way or the other from it's baseline rate, it cannot stand up on its own weight.
If suddenly everyone with a spare ISK could just buy twice the time tomorrow than they could have today and defer time spent... that deferred payment is a type of intransitive debt that CCP would accumulate as overhead. Just because CCP still gets their money tomorrow, does not mean they can pay their bills today. Sound familiar?
Now you are changing your argument to one that requires CCP to be bankrupt in order for your post to be accurate.
Money in the bank now is always better than money in the bank tomorrow, since money in the bank now allows you to leverage that money for profit, or to pay of debt and remove the outflow of interest. In other words, CCP would want as many GTCs on the market as possible, the more the better, if EVE every fell over they would score since they would have earned USD for gametime never provided. Cheaper GTCs mean less incentive for people to sell them, and too expensive GTCs means no one would buy them. In other words, CCP has very little mechanism other than leaving it up to natural supply and demand. |
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