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Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.02.17 02:20:00 -
[1]
I don't even use missle ships, however I heard that this used to be in the game and it was removed.
Why was it removed? Would seem to make a lot of sense for explosive/thermal missles to have some sort of splash damage.
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Shadow Lightbringer
Daedal Anomaly
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Posted - 2009.02.17 02:27:00 -
[2]
Yes, torpedoes used to be AOE. The official reason it was removed was because it caused too much lag.
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Jesslyn Daggererux
Gallente
SRIUS BISNIS
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Posted - 2009.02.17 02:27:00 -
[3]
and kinetic (shrapnel) and em (emp blast, anyone?) make sense dont they?
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I do not have a signature |
Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.02.17 02:32:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux
and kinetic (shrapnel) and em (emp blast, anyone?) make sense dont they?
EM would cause some sort of sensor disruption, but I could see that being kinda OP, and I always envisioned Kinetic missles sort of like lobbing a rock through someones car window. No explosion, just a really big dent /hole. Or else whats the difference between kinetic and explosive missles?
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Anubis Assassin
Caldari
Three 6 MaFiA
Tank 'n' Spank
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Posted - 2009.02.17 02:32:00 -
[5]
Really, I've thought about something similar to this as well. The missile and turret types of ammunition should have more than just 1 (missiles) 2 (turrets) types of damage on them. Most of 'em anyway. For example, an explosive missile is gonna be doing some thermal damage as well.
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I have to make my own sig break? WTF?
These forums suck CCP, fix 'em or get something better... I'm tired of reading Khraunus' sig every single time I read one of his |
Taedrin
Gallente
Golden Mechanization Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.02.17 02:38:00 -
[6]
As someone mentioned, the official reason is that it caused too much lag. But think about the consequences: CONCORD, your missiles destroying each other (remember that missiles can be destroyed by a well-timed smartbomb!), friendly fire and to top it all off, each and every missile detonation had O(n) complexity. Given that missiles were unbelievably popular, it is entirely possible that they could have been a cause of lag.
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Johann Callasan
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.17 02:52:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux
and kinetic (shrapnel) and em (emp blast, anyone?) make sense dont they?
EM would cause some sort of sensor disruption, but I could see that being kinda OP, and I always envisioned Kinetic missles sort of like lobbing a rock through someones car window. No explosion, just a really big dent /hole. Or else whats the difference between kinetic and explosive missles?
Modern-day examplke of a kinetic missile:
The AIM-9 series Sidewinder does not need to actually hit it's target. It's warhead is designed to propel a bundle of steel rods into and through the engine of it's target, making the engine shred itself and bringing it's target down. Those rods are called "kinetic penetrators", as are the self-forging copper plates used in some antitank rounds. When the round explodes, the warhead's explosion heats and forms the plate into a roughly wedge-shaped ckunk of metal that can burn through most aromr. That's why Chobham armor has a ceramic core - to stop such penetrators.
A explosive round would be like a HEAT round - a shaped charge that detonates on contact, and uses the plasma (superheated gas) from the detonant to burn a hole through tank armor. Explosive needs to cotact the armor directly; kinetic penetrators do NOT. Guess which are more feared.
Note well that in air combat, mostly kinetic are used, witht he damage either being done by kinetic penetrators or by shrapnel - NOT direct contact.
How this relates to EvE - well, same principles are used - kinetic warheads use a explosion to throw penetrators, Explosive warheads need direct hits/shrapnel, EM warheads surround the target with a ionized gas, then electrifies the gas - Thermal spread a self-reacting compound on the hull that generates heat - a LOT of heat - like a diffused version of a HEAT round.
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Nicholas Barker
Black Nova Corp
KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.02.17 03:15:00 -
[8]
What I heard from a friend of mine was Ravens would shoot the primary, and kill the frigates tackling it. So it was removed because of this.
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Lady Karma
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Posted - 2009.02.17 03:21:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Shadow Lightbringer
Yes, torpedoes used to be AOE. The official reason it was removed was because it caused too much lag.
It would also get you concordocened in empire war decs.
Lots of tears.
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Spurty
Caldari
Amok.
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.02.17 04:00:00 -
[10]
I thought the issue was the first torp to explode, exploded the rest of them so you had to fire all at the same time or a long delay between em.
That and they could decloak and the effect was indeed laggy.
BrRAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiNNNNNNZzzzzzzzzzzz |
Rhaven
Praetorian BlackGuard
Frater Adhuc Excessum
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Posted - 2009.02.17 04:07:00 -
[11]
I remember that ... The main reason it was removed wa you protect your self with a missle and the splash hits a can or someone else and you get concorded. Being concorded was a regualr thing and petitions galore so it ended up getting removed....
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.02.17 04:19:00 -
[12]
Could always make separate AoE versions of torps so high sec people can use the normal torps. Lag issue would still be there, but with weapon grouping and clever coding it might be possible to put back in the game. I mean bombs are in the game, are you saying that if they were popular, the game would be insanely laggy?
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Zex Maxwell
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.17 04:20:00 -
[13]
yep, it was the torp. but now its, smart bombs and stealth bomber thing (I don't remember the name of the bomb.)
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buttesauce
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Posted - 2009.02.17 06:46:00 -
[14]
i say add those style missles for stealth bombers only. that way they would shoot small bombs normally and then be able to launch the current bombs we have now. it would add to the role of a stealth bomber if they could use the special AOE missles.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.17 06:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Johann Callasan
How this relates to EvE - well, same principles are used - kinetic warheads use a explosion to throw penetrators, Explosive warheads need direct hits/shrapnel, EM warheads surround the target with a ionized gas, then electrifies the gas - Thermal spread a self-reacting compound on the hull that generates heat - a LOT of heat - like a diffused version of a HEAT round.
Just that in EVE, they're more like the size of school buses 
By the way, i want "SX69-Penetrator" missiles 
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Genya Arikaido
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Posted - 2009.02.17 06:52:00 -
[16]
I remember coming here from E&B and my CEO was out ratting in his kestrel. Needless to say, we didn't expect missiles to have splash damage and he got self-pwned.
So yes, self-pwnage, concordokken, and self-destruction of 75% of your DPS with each volley...unless your timing was crazy. 
Help me move to Iceland!
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.17 09:00:00 -
[17]
All missiles had some splash damage, but torpedoes had the largest radius.
This was made even larger by the torpedoes skill which affected radius rather than damage. Splash damage was so unpopular that nobody ever trained the skill past 1.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Fujiko MaXjolt
Caldari
Templar Republic
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.17 09:08:00 -
[18]
I always thought of the damage types in terms of :
EM = EMP blast
Thermal = Shaped charge
Kinetic = Kinetic Energy Penetrator round
Explosive = High Explosive round
Of these, only the EM and Explosive ones make sense to have AoE to me...
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.17 09:09:00 -
[19]
Also make the kinetic rounds make holes in the ships, big holes, where i can ram my ship in. Hard.
*looks around*
*leaves slowly*
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Esamir
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Posted - 2009.02.17 09:17:00 -
[20]
Make noob corp alt on 2nd account, have it orbit you. Yay, now no-one can shoot anything with splash dmg at you in empire.
This is why is was removed.
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.02.17 09:31:00 -
[21]
I used to chase torps in empire, running in to them in order to get Concord to kill the person shooting them .. ah, golden days of piracy.
Empire wars could be very profitable if you weren't involved.
Please note, I did this with my main, and it was risky fitting a ship which could intercept missiles without getting it all horribly wrong and ending up in your cloning station.
Then came the days of n00b alts orbiting ships, exploiting the mechanics that had given me so much fun and isk. 
アニメ漫画です
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Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.17 11:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Avon
I used to chase torps in empire, running in to them in order to get Concord to kill the person shooting them .. ah, golden days of piracy.
Empire wars could be very profitable if you weren't involved.
Back then, torps also meant insta-podding. You couldn't avoid being podded by the next torp coming your way.
Quote:
Please note, I did this with my main, and it was risky fitting a ship which could intercept missiles without getting it all horribly wrong and ending up in your cloning station.
Any ship with double or triple MWD could to it tbh. Frigates were too fragile, but cruisers were fine for this.
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Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Firestar Drive Yards
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Posted - 2009.02.17 12:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Shadow Lightbringer
Yes, torpedoes used to be AOE. The official reason it was removed was because it caused too much lag.
It was removed because you could use your enemies splash damage to get him conkordokkened, which pretty much removed caldari ships from high-sec PvP.
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Gershomea Raphael
Warped Mining
Strip Mining Club
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Posted - 2009.02.17 13:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
holes in the ships, big holes, where i can ram my ship in. Hard.
Thorax then?
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Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.02.17 13:29:00 -
[25]
Alright, valid arguments.
Ok, so most people would avoid said torps in hig sec becaused of the concord effect they had. Well how about giving people a choice in the form of a second set of missles. That way people could choose whether to use these aoe missles or not, without being forced to use them.
You could choose Scourge Heavys with aoe and Scourge Heavys without aoe, using them would be up to the player.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.02.17 13:31:00 -
[26]
AoE weapons are bad. They cause lots of lag.
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Joss Sparq
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.17 13:33:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gershomea Raphael
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
holes in the ships, big holes, where i can ram my ship in. Hard.
Thorax then?
Sheriff J is Amarr, so I'd wager he has a real Armageddon thing going on there.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.17 13:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Joss Sparq
Originally by: Gershomea Raphael
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
holes in the ships, big holes, where i can ram my ship in. Hard.
Thorax then?
Sheriff J is Amarr, so I'd wager he has a real Armageddon thing going on there.
Oooh you don't want to know
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
small chimp
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Posted - 2009.02.17 16:13:00 -
[29]
please note that kinetic misssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssiles use gravitometric warhead not kinetic warhead
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vvizard NOR
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Posted - 2009.02.17 16:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Anubis Assassin
Really, I've thought about something similar to this as well. The missile and turret types of ammunition should have more than just 1 (missiles) 2 (turrets) types of damage on them. Most of 'em anyway. For example, an explosive missile is gonna be doing some thermal damage as well.
As well as what? As well as explosive damage? There is no such thing named "explosive damage". Explosions are just combinations of other energy forms.
Explosions create a shock wave (compressed air slung out from the center of the explosion). This dense wall of really fast traveling air can kill you in several ways.
1) It can simply crush your body much the way a piano dropped in your head will crush you
2) It can enter into your body holes, for example your mouth, and expand your lungs and expand them until they break
3) It can throw you off your feet and off or into objects, killing you by for example falling off a roof, or crashing into a ... piano at high speed
AFAIK this energy is kinetic. Even though air is transparent, it's still kind of an object hitting you
The "visual" part of an explosion (as shown by Hollywood) is the thermal energy unleashed. I guess the primary source of this would be the air that's getting compressed (compressed gases heat). From time to time (in Hollywood at least) there is a source of rapid-burning materials in the vicinity of the explosion, for example gasoline or oil, that will be thrown into the air by the shock wave, catch fire and burn up, letting you see the actual heat going on in an explosion (and adding some more heat). In RL though you seldom see the heat in a normal explosion. For example a hand grenade or a 40mm explosive round will just look like a cloud of smoke when it detonates during daytime. It's shock wave still have a 5m kill radius though.
You guys who actually know physics, please correct me if I'm wrong in my assessment:
"Explosive damage" should not be in the game. "Explosive missiles" should not do "explosive damage", but rather a combination of kinetic/thermal damage like hybrid charges.
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