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Gritchee
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Posted - 2009.02.18 13:00:00 -
[1]
So I heard that in the next patch (10 march) you will not be able to see the belts anymore. You'll have to find them?
Is it true and if yes, what will I need to find them.
Thx alot.
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mcnuggetlol
Amarr
Outlandish Operations
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Posted - 2009.02.18 13:08:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Gritchee
So I heard that in the next patch (10 march) you will not be able to see the belts anymore. You'll have to find them?
Is it true and if yes, what will I need to find them.
Thx alot.
Come m10 all belts will indeed be hidden, and you'll either have to travel into wormhole space or probe them down in order to find ore.
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2009.02.18 13:15:00 -
[3]
In normal space, celestial belts will stay as they are now and nothing is changing there with Apocrypha. In wormhole space, all the belts are hidden and will need to be scanned down.
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Liv Traisharan
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.18 13:46:00 -
[4]
So what skills are needed to be able to scan down those asteroid belts?
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mcnuggetlol
Amarr
Outlandish Operations
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Posted - 2009.02.18 13:50:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Liv Traisharan
So what skills are needed to be able to scan down those asteroid belts?
Probing skills!! \ /
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Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.02.18 18:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: mcnuggetlol
Originally by: Liv Traisharan
So what skills are needed to be able to scan down those asteroid belts?
Probing skills!! \/
Turn your head and cough
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Sal 'acho
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Posted - 2009.02.18 19:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
In normal space, celestial belts will stay as they are now and nothing is changing there with Apocrypha.
Except the graphics
Linkage
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Irish Blend
Caldari
10045th Logistics Battalion
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Posted - 2009.02.18 20:25:00 -
[8]
In the mean time there is plenty of belts to mine in empire today respawning ever downtime -
I like cats, especially with General Tso's sauce
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2009.02.19 01:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
In normal space, celestial belts will stay as they are now and nothing is changing there with Apocrypha. In wormhole space, all the belts are hidden and will need to be scanned down.
Will the hidden belts in W-Space be superior to regular belts? The effort involved in running a W-Space mining op (time to find wormhole, time to move your mining fleet to the wormhole, time to find belt, fighting harder belt rats, time to ship you minerals back to useful K-Space, risk of getting your mining op stranded, greater risk of gankage) suggests that it'd only be worth doing if the rewards were much, much higher than most current mining options.
Previously CCP has stated that there wont be any new minerals.
So what makes it economically desirable to mine there?
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permion
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Posted - 2009.02.19 03:00:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Celia Therone
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
In normal space, celestial belts will stay as they are now and nothing is changing there with Apocrypha. In wormhole space, all the belts are hidden and will need to be scanned down.
Will the hidden belts in W-Space be superior to regular belts? The effort involved in running a W-Space mining op (time to find wormhole, time to move your mining fleet to the wormhole, time to find belt, fighting harder belt rats, time to ship you minerals back to useful K-Space, risk of getting your mining op stranded, greater risk of gankage) suggests that it'd only be worth doing if the rewards were much, much higher than most current mining options.
Previously CCP has stated that there wont be any new minerals.
So what makes it economically desirable to mine there?
Wormhole only minerals(for T3) and 0.0 minerals(likely)
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2009.02.19 04:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: permion
Wormhole only minerals(for T3) and 0.0 minerals(likely)
According to CCP Dropbear:
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
And are there going to be new w-space specific ore's??
As for the other question. I haven't seen any new w-space specific ores in the design and I'm very confident that the only new "harvestable materials" are the fullerites to be found in gas clouds. I don't work in design, however, so I can't state that definitively. I'll leave it to Chronotis et al to field those kinds of questions, I just wanted to drop in with that diagram. 
So... Is the demand for 0.0 minerals high enough to justify wormhole mining of them? And is it also high enough that an influx of new minerals wont crash the market?
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.02.19 07:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Celia Therone
Originally by: permion
Wormhole only minerals(for T3) and 0.0 minerals(likely)
According to CCP Dropbear:
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
And are there going to be new w-space specific ore's??
As for the other question. I haven't seen any new w-space specific ores in the design and I'm very confident that the only new "harvestable materials" are the fullerites to be found in gas clouds. I don't work in design, however, so I can't state that definitively. I'll leave it to Chronotis et al to field those kinds of questions, I just wanted to drop in with that diagram.
So... Is the demand for 0.0 minerals high enough to justify wormhole mining of them? And is it also high enough that an influx of new minerals wont crash the market?
Just because there are no new ores, doesn't mean there is nothing new to mine, it's just not ore. It will be fairly unlikely people will mine conventional ore there, at least sanely.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.19 07:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Just because there are no new ores, doesn't mean there is nothing new to mine, it's just not ore. It will be fairly unlikely people will mine conventional ore there, at least sanely.
It all depend on the return on gas harvesting. From the build requirement I have seen a pilot need to mine 5+ hours to gather the gasses for a T3 basic hull.
A minimum return would be 30 mill/hour to make it sane to do this (and I am considering that the tanker will get the same isk killing NPC and salvaging the wrecks).
So, unless the T3 gases sold for a sufficient sum it would be insane to do gas harvesting it there are good 0.0 asteroid pockets paying more.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.02.19 07:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
So, unless the T3 gases sold for a sufficient sum it would be insane to do gas harvesting it there are good 0.0 asteroid pockets paying more.
It will of course depend on the size of harvested gases vs the size of the ore, vs the size you can refine the ore to at 25% loss. Because you have to account for the cost of moving the materials back to empire space. One can only assume that the gas harvesting will be worth it vs ore harvesting, or else no harvesting of any type will be done in w-space.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.19 08:53:00 -
[15]
This change things a bit:
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
With the latest sisi build, the production chain has undergone a significant change from the first iteration. The number of materials has been narrowed down as feedback and testing showed the effort needed to acquire such a wide variety of items was far above what was desired in sheer man hours and difficulty of acquiring the materials. The biggest effect was at the subsystem manufacturing stage where the number of different components needed was reduced. As a consequence, the component manufacturing and polymer reactions were also changed.
Feedback would be appreciated on the latest test build.
My impression from the old numbers was an excessive quantity of materials for the supposed final price of a hull.
Apparently the Devs reached the same conclusion.
BTW: from what I recall a Dev stated that the supposed final price of the hull would be in the 150 million range. That seem a reasonable price if gathering all the material don't require more than 3 hours of "harvesting" gas, salvage and components in WH space. That because they require further operations before being usable for the actual construction of the hull and most "manipulations" require a POS or an outpost.
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Brutal Bruno
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Posted - 2009.02.19 11:21:00 -
[16]
WHAT ABOUT PLANETARY RINGS???????
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2009.02.19 13:13:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
new "harvestable materials" are the fullerites to be found in gas clouds
Just because there are no new ores, doesn't mean there is nothing new to mine, it's just not ore. It will be fairly unlikely people will mine conventional ore there, at least sanely.
Gas clouds are, presumably, like the old ladar gas clouds which is why they're talking about seeding gas harvesters. I.e. It really doesn't have much to do with mining (you need a different skill, different equipment, gather from a different place and may use a different ship if you can't fit gas harvesters on your old mining ship.)
This is why I'd like some clarification as to what the mining content is likely to be and if we're going to see gravimetric sites in w-space and how they're planning to make them profitable if so.
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Modrick
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Posted - 2009.02.20 18:39:00 -
[18]
Remember reading something that w-space belt not only being hidden but will also be one type of roid. Roids will be compromised of all ore types. You use scanner to figure out what roid has in it, use mining crystals to mine it out that ore, change crystals to next ore in the roid.
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Elrinarie
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.20 19:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Modrick
Remember reading something that w-space belt not only being hidden but will also be one type of roid. Roids will be compromised of all ore types. You use scanner to figure out what roid has in it, use mining crystals to mine it out that ore, change crystals to next ore in the roid.
I'm pretty sure that was someone's idea of changing up the mining system, but I might have missed something
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