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Canis Trucido
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Posted - 2009.02.19 02:42:00 -
[1]
Like the falcon, in theory it hasn't changed at all since it came about, but suddenly its become extremly popular and dangerous, any idea why?
For that matter how does anything become overpowered?
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eFart
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Posted - 2009.02.19 02:46:00 -
[2]
what like the falcon its not even proven that its overpwred so stfu
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Jack Jombardo
Amarr
Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2009.02.19 02:55:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 19/02/2009 02:55:43
Before ECM was just medicor compared to Dampeners and NOS. So it hasn't been used as much and becouse of low usage not been noticed that hard.
Then Dampeners and NOS got nerved and people started to "over-use" ECM/Falcons which leeds to a hugh notice allaround.
Technical itselve hasn't changed in strength.
But it profits from other changes.
"UBAR" for me is just a definition of "used more then compareble options".
If you have 4 EW-types but just one is used much more often then the other 3, then it is inbalanced/ubar ... or the other 3 are to week (<- like this option better).
Oh and I do not like mechanics that can 100% disable other player like STUN or ECM (changs based) do.
Making somebody less effective (snears, slow, dampener) are fine, but 100% negating is just stupid.
It's like promising interactivity but then showing a normal Video without the option of manipulation ;).
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jam6549
Paladines
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Posted - 2009.02.19 02:57:00 -
[4]
CCP know when things get overpowered when a lot of ppl use it over other things. EG. nanos, where every ship was nanoed up because they could go so fast.
The falcon is preferred over any other recon and is seen easily more versatile then any other, hence overpowerd 
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DubanFP
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.02.19 03:03:00 -
[5]
Ironically the more people whine the more press it gets. One or two people whine so a couple think its a good idea to train. Two or 3 more people see the whine created by the extra players and hop on, etc etc. Ironically the FoTM's overuse is what makes people think it's overpowered more then anything and its the whines that make it overused.
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This is EVE. Here you have the right to settle any disagreements with lethal force. |
Joe
Umbra Legion
Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.02.19 03:05:00 -
[6]
yes falcon hasnt changed at all, thoughout the nanowhine threads, missle nurf period etc etc.
What has happened is the focus of forum warriors has changed due to apparent 'wins' in the other areas.
step one: ship becomes popular in large alliance, many internal alliance forum posts are made with setups for alliance fleet use.
Step two: Ship suddenly appears more on killboards of other large alliances.
step three: FLOTM sheep jump on the bandwagon of what they assume is the 'new best thing'
Step four: Alliance forum warriors use Meta gaming 'tactics' to try and pressure devs to change the 'overpowered' ships their enemys are using.
Step five: Forum whiners who have nothing better todo jump on the bandwagon and suddenly have opinions on ships they never use, but have calculated in EFT are far more 'overpowered' that a ship of similar mass etc.
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.19 03:11:00 -
[7]
Ok, raise your hands if you've ever had your ship larger than a cruiser ganked by a solo Falcon. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Falcons are great gang ships. They are force multipliers. Recons in general have always been valuable for their force multiplier role. In recent times, the Amarr recons were popular until nerfed by changes to Nos modules, Gallente recons were popular until nerfed by changes to sensor damps, and Minmatar recons were popular until nerfed by changes to webifiers. And by the way, Caldari recons have changed; they had their last nerf via changes to ECM before any of the aforementioned nerfs, and were later boosted back into usefulness. And so, the cycle of FOTM continues. What will happen next? A nerf to Falcons? A boost to Rapiers? Play EVE and find out...
In any case, Falcons are not overpowered. They are very good at fulfilling their role, but that is all they are good at. With weaponry that would hardly faze a small child with a slingshot and a hull that could easily be breached with a plastic spork, they are hardly combat powerhouses. But they can fairly reliably cancel out the firepower of a couple of opposing ships. Which is great -- if you have about 1/3 as many Falcons in your fleet as your opponent has ships.
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Becq Starforged
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
Lanais Suleia
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Posted - 2009.02.19 03:21:00 -
[8]
ITT: Falcon alts try to justify their continued existance. |
Muhammed Jafar
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Posted - 2009.02.19 03:28:00 -
[9]
ITT falcon victims lick their wounds
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.19 03:39:00 -
[10]
Usually that happens if they let a trainee-dev to "fix" something.
Or if they remove the natural counter of something without thinking of the impact thoroughly.
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.02.19 03:45:00 -
[11]
Things become overpowered when all it's closest rivals get ground into the floor.
For example, if all ewar ships got removed from the game, Curse would probably step up.
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Tarjema Maloria
In Pain Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.19 03:46:00 -
[12]
In short. In the gaming industry it is known as power creep. When you adjust things in a game in the name of balance, you knock other things out of whack with what the original balance passes were shooting for. Personally I think the problem with falcons does not actually lie with falcons or ECM. I myself believe it is that in this game where being able to counter specific setups is the name of the game, ECCM modules may perhaps be the place we need to look. ECCM on battleships and capitol ships helps, less on battleships but the idea is there, a counter to ECM. The real problem is ECM has a flat rate of effectiveness and ECCM does not scale with ship size. If those 2 issues can be overcome in some brilliant CCP way, then all will be warm and fuzzy within the player base.
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Taylor timenenzi
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Posted - 2009.02.19 04:39:00 -
[13]
 Originally by: Jack Jombardo
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 19/02/2009 02:55:43
Oh and I do not like mechanics that can 100% disable other player like STUN or ECM (changs based) do.
Making somebody less effective (snears, slow, dampener) are fine, but 100% negating is just stupid.
It's like promising interactivity but then showing a normal Video without the option of manipulation ;).
Ecept all it actualy does is stop you from targetting other then that you have complete controll. Put enough dampners on something it cant target, put enough NOS on somebody they are pretty much useless, enough tracking disruptors well they are not going to hit anything.
I do agree I would rather see things buffed up or added instead of the constant nerfing. All that ever does is roll around another "overpowered" FOTM.
Maybe actualy add some some ECCM rigs so pepole have a option to do that instead of sacrificing slots they really NEED for PvP. And dont give them some dumb **** drawback that totally negates the point of having them.
Just off the top of my head maybe put a module in that can break the jamming once youve been jammed but has a longer activation time so it doesnt totally kill ECM.
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Jesslyn Daggererux
Gallente
SRIUS BISNIS
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Posted - 2009.02.19 04:47:00 -
[14]
guy above me, when is the last time you used a nos?
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I do not have a signature |
Taylor timenenzi
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Posted - 2009.02.19 04:51:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Taylor timenenzi on 19/02/2009 04:51:58
Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux
guy above me, when is the last time you used a nos?
I fly amarr and meet my fair share of curse's around the galaxy.
Edit: oh and its typically when im trying to tackle someone and getting sucked dry in almost no time when your trying to live in a amarr inty sucks.
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Soporo
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.02.19 04:58:00 -
[16]
Didnt the Devs give the Falcon a significant boost since it's arrival? Gee, that mighta had something to do with it.
My only gripe with the Falcon is it almost totally marginalizes the Rook, not to mention the Scorp.
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SLIM
Slacker Industries
The Boat Violencing Initiative
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Posted - 2009.02.19 05:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Canis Trucido
For that matter how does anything become overpowered?
You let TomB balance it?
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Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2009.02.19 05:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Becq Starforged
Ok, raise your hands if you've ever had your ship larger than a cruiser ganked by a solo Falcon. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Straw man argument spotted.
Just cause the Falcon ain't a solo killing machine does not mean that it can not be overpowered.
For me the problem with the Falcon is that there is no way to deal with a well flown one, except with another ECM ship. Mostly PvP is a close range thing, except for a Falcon pilot who sits at 200km thumbing his nose at everyone else.
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Zak Zerachiel
Caldari
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.20 06:52:00 -
[19]
Fit ECCM.
</thread>
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Zak Zerachiel
Caldari
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.20 06:53:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Zak Zerachiel on 20/02/2009 06:53:30
*ninja edit*
Double post FTL.
Sorry.
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Stab Wounds
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.02.20 07:03:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zak Zerachiel
Fit ECCM.
</thread>
This
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.02.20 07:40:00 -
[22]
The falcon has become more powerful than it used to be. One of the major strengths of the falcon is the extra range it has over its opponents.
Guess what, top speeds got cut and as such range matters more.
Not a direct buff, but definitely a meta-buff.
Note that Falcons aren't anywhere near as useful in a sniper fight. In fact the order of the day seems to be "Falcon! *lock* *pop*"
But with fleets lacking a major nano-component. Well, the falcon at 100km (or even 70km) is almost untouchable.
Adding to this problem is the fact that the only reason to fit ECCM is to counter ECM.
All the other forms of counters to recon electronic warfare (Except WCSs) give you an advantage even if you're not fighting what they're supposed to counter.
Not fighting an arazu? Your Sensorbooster is still useful.
Not fighting a curse? Your cap booster is still useful. As is your tracking computer.
Rapier? Well, your speedmods give you a buff even if you're not fighting a rapier.
Not fighting ECM? Haha, your ECCM mods are now dead weight morons.
______________________________________________
-My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.20 07:59:00 -
[23]
Things become overpowered when people claim they do.
Truth is a whole different can of wormholes.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Aurevoir Connard
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Posted - 2009.02.20 16:11:00 -
[24]
Things bevome overpowered when people become to lazy to try to counter them. It is easy to whine how something is overpowered or broken when you can't take the time or energy to come up with a solution.
After the Nano nerf Falcons were the be all end all, couldn't counter them. Now however after a while a group of us tried different options to counter them, from eccm and remote eccm to snipers to dampeners to interceptors and drones, you ge the point a whole slew of tactics have been tried some worked some didn't the point hereis the falcon in gang fights is no longer an issue
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Shigsy
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2009.02.20 16:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Zak Zerachiel
Fit ECCM.
</thread>
I do, and it doesn't work 
Thats why the falcon is overpowered.
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2009.02.20 16:23:00 -
[26]
Falcons used to be reasonable counterable through use of damps (forcing falcons in range), however with the damp nerfs they are hardly used anymore on non dedicated ewar ships. ECM is the only remaining ewar that allows you to take out multiple opponents.
Also the nature of ECM is overpowered:
1. when damped you move closer and continue to pew pew i.e. you loose time.
2. when tracking disrupted you switch target that is hittable or get better tracking on your target through moving, i.e. you loose time.
3. when painted you scream harder for logistic support / run, i.e. you'll die faster but at least have the feeling you went down fighting.
4. When ecm-ed you are compltely taken out of the fight and all you can realisticly do is warp out and back in, i.e. makes you feel completly useless and the loss of your ship feels pointless and ridiculuos.
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Originally by: CCP Prism X
I can invent ways to get free candy for you where the implementation is so bad that you'd never want to see candy again in your whole life.
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Dark Soldat
Caldari
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.02.20 16:26:00 -
[27]
Because some people got killed by a gang of falcons and didnt like it.
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.20 16:30:00 -
[28]
Things become overpowered when people can no longer be bothered to think up a way of countering it.
That is literally all it is.
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2009.02.20 16:32:00 -
[29]
Edited by: DrAtomic on 20/02/2009 16:33:20
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
Things become overpowered when people can no longer be bothered to think up a way of countering it.
That is literally all it is.
If I fit 2 eccm modules on whatever ship, the ecm boat will still get a jam in. Less so then normal but nonetheless it will get it in. The counter doesn't counter.
Edit: the pure chance based mechanism of ecm is what makes it overpowered, 5 light ecm drones will get a jam on you no matter what as is the nature of chance.
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Originally by: CCP Prism X
I can invent ways to get free candy for you where the implementation is so bad that you'd never want to see candy again in your whole life.
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Jalif
Black Sinisters
Freedom of Elbas
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Posted - 2009.02.20 16:34:00 -
[30]
What would CCP Whisper say: Deal With It
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